Weave Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 I can already tell I'm going to be in the minority here, but I'm not a fan of giving 17 and 18 year olds prison sentences when they make a mistake. By the grownups' accounts on the videos, even Elbowsaurus (great name by the way) is normally pretty docile. Why screw up his whole life by giving him a record? What is that going to accomplish? I dunno man. I think we are underestimating 17 year olds if we start to think they don't know right from wrong. Elbowsaurus is old enough to do the time if he's willing to do the crime IMO.
Eleven Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 I dunno man. I think we are underestimating 17 year olds if we start to think they don't know right from wrong. Elbowsaurus is old enough to do the time if he's willing to do the crime IMO. Oh, I think they know right from wrong. And I'm not trying to persuade anyone; just want to make sure my opinion is understood. I'm not naive enough to think a 17-year-old doesn't know right from wrong; I just don't like the inevitable consequences of incarcerating someone that age.
shrader Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 I know. In the case of teenagers who make a single mistake, I don't like it. They enter prison as impressionable kids and come out as hardened criminals most of the time. If not, they still have a record to deal with. This opinion transcends sport, and like I said, I realize that it is not a popular opinion. Is there mandatory jail time with an assault charge? Some sort of plea to keep him out of jail would probably be fine here, but he needs to pay for his actions.
Eleven Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 Is there mandatory jail time with an assault charge? Some sort of plea to keep him out of jail would probably be fine here, but he needs to pay for his actions. I don't know in Texas; it probably matters whether he is 17 rather than 18 and the level of the charge. Someone referred to a penitentiary, which motivated my comment. If he spends 300 hours cleaning the highways or whatever this summer and has his record expunged, I'm fine with that.
will Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 If he spends 300 hours cleaning the highways or whatever this summer and has his record expunged, I'm fine with that. glassjaw's parents might not be.
wjag Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 I can already tell I'm going to be in the minority here, but I'm not a fan of giving 17 and 18 year olds prison sentences when they make a mistake. By the grownups' accounts on the videos, even Elbowsaurus (great name by the way) is normally pretty docile. Why screw up his whole life by giving him a record? What is that going to accomplish? I'm with you. Severe punishment is coming though for him and his family.
wjag Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 glassjaw's parents might not be. Glassjaw... Glad to see that sensitivity training is paying off. :thumbsup: I'm pretty confident if someone hit me like that not only would I have my jaw shattered, but you'd be looking for my teeth too. I'd probably go from this :D to this :o
shrader Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 I don't know in Texas; it probably matters whether he is 17 rather than 18 and the level of the charge. Someone referred to a penitentiary, which motivated my comment. If he spends 300 hours cleaning the highways or whatever this summer and has his record expunged, I'm fine with that. Yeah, that was me. It was more of a joke than anything. But really, that is the only form of hockey he should be playing for a while. And on that note, we're talking about a Texas high school hockey player. There's a very low probability that we'll ever actually find out whether or not the NCAA would enforce this suspension.
MattPie Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 I'd probably go from this :D to this :o That has to be in the smilie-humor hall of fame.
SwampD Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 Kid deserved it. Yep. Not only were there two extremely dangerous boardings by the dark team to start the whole fracas, but it was Glassjaw himself who came flying across the ice to hit someone first. Karma's a beotch.
Stoner Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 Yep. Not only were there two extremely dangerous boardings by the dark team to start the whole fracas, but it was Glassjaw himself who came flying across the ice to hit someone first. Karma's a beotch. You guys don't really mean that a high school boy deserved to have his jaw broken.
SwampD Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 You guys don't really mean that a high school boy deserved to have his jaw broken. No. But like I said, Karma's a beotch. Glassjaw is just lucky that his actions didn't seriously hurt someone when he came all the way across the ice to hit someone into the boards. Had he not done that, I doubt the other kid would have pulled out the Atomic Elbow on him.
IKnowPhysics Posted April 1, 2011 Report Posted April 1, 2011 Glassjaw ... came all the way across the ice to hit someone into the boards. Had he not done that, I doubt the other kid would have pulled out the Atomic Elbow on him. Hard to tell. Barack 'Bowbama was already back on the ice at the other end of the rink skating for the brawl before Mandibles connected in the corner; no way to know if he had already decided to whip out The People's Elbow.
billsrcursed Posted April 1, 2011 Report Posted April 1, 2011 Hard to tell. Barack 'Bowbama was already back on the ice at the other end of the rink skating for the brawl before Mandibles connected in the corner; no way to know if he had already decided to whip out The People's Elbow. He made a bee-line for that kid, though. I'm sure he saw the kid picking up steam coming across the ice and knew way ahead of time what his intentions were. Both kids are at fault here. I'm more interested in this "board" and what power they have that these kids could be punished at the Collegiate level.
SDS Posted April 1, 2011 Report Posted April 1, 2011 I'm more interested in this "board" and what power they have that these kids could be punished at the Collegiate level. If it is all under USAHockey - then yes, USAHockey can suspend anyone from a sanctioned event.
korab rules Posted April 1, 2011 Report Posted April 1, 2011 If it is all under USAHockey - then yes, USAHockey can suspend anyone from a sanctioned event. I don't think USA Hockey oversees the NCAA. Would they honor it? Is there an agreement already in place? I doubt it. A suspension at the youth level isn't reviewed by USA hockey anyway. They are handedout by the the local division of the state organization that is an affiliate of USA hockey.
darksabre Posted April 1, 2011 Report Posted April 1, 2011 Yep. Not only were there two extremely dangerous boardings by the dark team to start the whole fracas, but it was Glassjaw himself who came flying across the ice to hit someone first. Karma's a beotch. Exactly. If you're gonna blast someone on the boards who isn't even in the mix, you better have your head on a swivel afterwards. Is it messed up that this happened? Yes. But if I saw someone go after my teammate like Jaws McBustedface did, I'd have brought the hammer of Thor down on him too. Don't start nothin, won't be nothin. Actions have consequences and I bet Elbow Receptacle learned his.
Taro T Posted April 1, 2011 Report Posted April 1, 2011 He made a bee-line for that kid, though. I'm sure he saw the kid picking up steam coming across the ice and knew way ahead of time what his intentions were. Both kids are at fault here. I'm more interested in this "board" and what power they have that these kids could be punished at the Collegiate level. If it is all under USAHockey - then yes, USAHockey can suspend anyone from a sanctioned event. Well, IIRC, the broadcast claimed that the kids' suspensions would carry over into men's leagues (beer leagues) as well as college leagues. I don't know of any men's leagues that are sanctioned by USA Hockey. Perhaps down in TX they are, but here in Ra-cha-cha they aren't. I've got a USA Hockey Card because I coach youth hockey. I didn't have one when I just played beer league. I'd be very interested in hearing the conversation that leads to the kids being held out of 4 years worth of beer league. Is your money good? Yep. OK, you're in. That is the typical conversation when one enters a beer league. Do you really expect there to be an additional 'have you ever been disciplined by USA Hockey or an organization with reciprocal disciplinary agreements and if so, have you completed the disciplinary requirements?'
SDS Posted April 1, 2011 Report Posted April 1, 2011 Well, IIRC, the broadcast claimed that the kids' suspensions would carry over into men's leagues (beer leagues) as well as college leagues. I don't know of any men's leagues that are sanctioned by USA Hockey. Perhaps down in TX they are, but here in Ra-cha-cha they aren't. I've got a USA Hockey Card because I coach youth hockey. I didn't have one when I just played beer league. I'd be very interested in hearing the conversation that leads to the kids being held out of 4 years worth of beer league. Is your money good? Yep. OK, you're in. That is the typical conversation when one enters a beer league. Do you really expect there to be an additional 'have you ever been disciplined by USA Hockey or an organization with reciprocal disciplinary agreements and if so, have you completed the disciplinary requirements?' I do not know the percentage, but mine is and we have the biggest league on the east coast. 80+ teams and 1000+ players. USA Hockey mag routinely lists the largest adult leagues in the country and I would assume they are all USA Hockey leagues. A teammate got thrown out of a game and ended up throwing some stuff on the ice. That got him in big time trouble with USA Hockey that affected his coaching and threatened his participation in the Pond Hockey Tournament in Wisconsin.
shrader Posted April 1, 2011 Report Posted April 1, 2011 Well, IIRC, the broadcast claimed that the kids' suspensions would carry over into men's leagues (beer leagues) as well as college leagues. I don't know of any men's leagues that are sanctioned by USA Hockey. Perhaps down in TX they are, but here in Ra-cha-cha they aren't. I've got a USA Hockey Card because I coach youth hockey. I didn't have one when I just played beer league. I'd be very interested in hearing the conversation that leads to the kids being held out of 4 years worth of beer league. Is your money good? Yep. OK, you're in. That is the typical conversation when one enters a beer league. Do you really expect there to be an additional 'have you ever been disciplined by USA Hockey or an organization with reciprocal disciplinary agreements and if so, have you completed the disciplinary requirements?' I think most beer leagues would probably welcome these kind of actions. Oh the crap I've seen. And SDS, I'm going to have to question that "largest league on the east coast" claim. I bet it's only among USA hockey sanctioned leagues. My league is completely independent and I just counted 97 teams in the standings. That was only one region of the league though. There are 6 other ones that I'm too lazy to look through. The one I did count has to be the largest of the regions, but the others has to bump us up to at least 200 teams.
SDS Posted April 1, 2011 Report Posted April 1, 2011 I think most beer leagues would probably welcome these kind of actions. Oh the crap I've seen. And SDS, I'm going to have to question that "largest league on the east coast" claim. I bet it's only among USA hockey sanctioned leagues. My league is completely independent and I just counted 97 teams in the standings. That was only one region of the league though. There are 6 other ones that I'm too lazy to look through. The one I did count has to be the largest of the regions, but the others has to bump us up to at least 200 teams. That could be. They come out with a top ten every year and we are usually #5 or so in the US according to them. Either way, I assumed most adult leagues went through them, but that may not be the case. However, some significant ones do.
Taro T Posted April 1, 2011 Report Posted April 1, 2011 That could be. They come out with a top ten every year and we are usually #5 or so in the US according to them. Either way, I assumed most adult leagues went through them, but that may not be the case. However, some significant ones do. My guess as to whether a league joins USA Hockey or not depends on whether the league gets insurance on its own or if it is covered under the rink's policy. Pretty much all of the beer leagues here are organized by the particular rink that runs them. (There are a couple of very small leagues/ pick up games that I know of that aren't "run" by the rink they're held in but they are definitely in the minority. Neither of those are USA Hockey sanctioned either.) It'd be interesting to know what the rationale is for the leagues to go / not go w/ USA Hockey. Again, my guess is the insurance rate is the bene.
IKnowPhysics Posted April 1, 2011 Report Posted April 1, 2011 It'd be interesting to know what the rationale is for the leagues to go / not go w/ USA Hockey. USA Hockey does usually mean better insurance, but it also means sanctioned refs, which means you can't pay your unsanctioned brother-in-law $10/hr to blow calls every game. USA Hockey: Better insurance for players, sanctioned/educated referees. Non-USA Hockey: Cheaper for both players (no membership fees) and league (cheaper refs). I've played in both USAH and non-USAH, and USAH is a lot better IMO, mostly due to quality of reffing. I've played in some seriously ###### non-USAH leagues, mostly due to quality of reffing. Also, league liability is usually minimal, as most leagues are play at your own risk. The insurance from USAH is injury coverage for individual players.
Taro T Posted April 1, 2011 Report Posted April 1, 2011 USA Hockey does usually mean better insurance, but it also means sanctioned refs, which means you can't pay your unsanctioned brother-in-law $10/hr to blow calls every game. USA Hockey: Better insurance for players, sanctioned/educated referees. Non-USA Hockey: Cheaper for both players (no membership fees) and league (cheaper refs). I've played in both USAH and non-USAH, and USAH is a lot better IMO, mostly due to quality of reffing. I've played in some seriously ###### non-USAH leagues, mostly due to quality of reffing. Also, league liability is usually minimal, as most leagues are play at your own risk. The insurance from USAH is injury coverage for individual players. The refs that work games in Ra-cha-cha are all certified. But the leagues aren't USA Hockey leagues.
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