spndnchz Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTksAalNgTw Last game of the season. Kids jaw is busted.
Stoner Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTksAalNgTw Last game of the season. Kids jaw is busted. Good hockey plays to me. No charging -- the players glided in. Elbows were down. Since when is it illegal to hit someone in the head with your forearm!? Sure, take all the hitting out of high school hockey. Go watch ladies tennis. 99 game suspension? These are good kids who aren't violent, and it was the biggest game of the year! Seniors too! 99 games too long, I say!
shrader Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 So that has to bring assault charges, doesn't it?
Robviously Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 Good hockey plays to me. No charging -- the players glided in. Elbows were down. Since when is it illegal to hit someone in the head with your forearm!? Sure, take all the hitting out of high school hockey. Go watch ladies tennis. 99 game suspension? These are good kids who aren't violent, and it was the biggest game of the year! Seniors too! 99 games too long, I say! Seriously, that's all just a part of the game. And sometimes things happen. These kids have never been suspended before so I think any suspensions in this case would be a dangerous overreaction. And if you don't like it, go watch tee ball.
wjag Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTksAalNgTw Last game of the season. Kids jaw is busted. Hockey meet Roller Derby.
Stoner Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 So that has to bring assault charges, doesn't it? I would hope so. And a lawsuit, big time.
wjag Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 I would hope so. And a lawsuit, big time. Considering he was already thrown out of the game and shouldn't have been anywhere near the ice, I'd say any lawyer worth his salt could make a liability suit stick. I'd be worried about my house if I was the parents of the jaw breaker. Whether you can get a criminal complaint seems less certain. Good kid, never in trouble, no history (3 penalties all season), emotional game, etc can all be mitigating factors to a jury. I feel bad for everyone involved. Lives have been forever changed in an instant.
shrader Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 Considering he was already thrown out of the game and shouldn't have been anywhere near the ice, I'd say any lawyer worth his salt could make a liability suit stick. I'd be worried about my house if I was the parents of the jaw breaker. Whether you can get a criminal complaint seems less certain. Good kid, never in trouble, no history (3 penalties all season), emotional game, etc can all be mitigating factors to a jury. I feel bad for everyone involved. Lives have been forever changed in an instant. And the coach has to be on the line here too. He needs to be aware of who is on his bench.
Ohiofan Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 They ran this story on the news this morning in Cleveland. The last time I remember them covering hockey, other than the Lake Erie Monsters and some high school hockey, was when they ran a story and showed clips from the Ottawa brawl. They don't run anything Blue Jackets, ever. 99 games? I'm not sure that fits. I will say this: I have watched a lot of high school sports in my life, all kinds, both male and female. Teenage boys are far and away the most emotional, invested, and committed athletes on the planet, almost to a fault. I am not excusing this kind of play, ever, but I can see where it comes from. At that age, most young people are overwhelmed by their emotions and it is hard for them to gain control over them. Maturity will usually calm the rawness a bit, but these players are kids, and it got the best of them this time.
Weave Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 I can't get any audio here at work so final judgement from me will have to wait until I see it at home but, damn, that #3 kid in the white uni needs to have assault charges I would think. That was a blind-sided attack. Is the kid he hit the one with the broken jaw? If it were my kid down on the ice after that hit you bet I'm talking to a lawyer already. There was no need for that.
JujuFish Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 I can't get any audio here at work so final judgement from me will have to wait until I see it at home but, damn, that #3 kid in the white uni needs to have assault charges I would think. That was a blind-sided attack. Is the kid he hit the one with the broken jaw? If it were my kid down on the ice after that hit you bet I'm talking to a lawyer already. There was no need for that. Yes, and he had just received a game misconduct so he shouldn't have been anywhere near the ice to begin with.
shrader Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 Yes, and he had just received a game misconduct so he shouldn't have been anywhere near the ice to begin with. I thought they said 10 minute misconduct, but either way, yes, he should not have even been near the bench at that point.
spndnchz Posted March 31, 2011 Author Report Posted March 31, 2011 I thought they said 10 minute misconduct, but either way, yes, he should not have even been near the bench at that point. Yup. It was less than ten to go. I think he was hanging out to be at the celebration at the end.
will Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 i would imagine with his helmet off, it was the action of falling face first on the ice that broke the jaw. still, that's straight up assault. not that the victim didn't have it coming to him...his full speed body slam of his original target into the boards was ill-advised to say the least. 99 games? that's ridiculous. someone get colin on the phone...these kids will be slugging it out in junior camps by late summer.
shrader Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 i would imagine with his helmet off, it was the action of falling face first on the ice that broke the jaw. still, that's straight up assault. not that the victim didn't have it coming to him...his full speed body slam of his original target into the boards was ill-advised to say the least. 99 games? that's ridiculous. someone get colin on the phone...these kids will be slugging it out in junior camps by late summer. The hit was direct to the side/bottom of the head, so I'd imagine it was in fact the hit that broke his jaw.
IKnowPhysics Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 I thought they said 10 minute misconduct, but either way, yes, he should not have even been near the bench at that point. They slowed down the video and explained how Johnny Flyingelbow got a penalty previously, then when he saw the one dark jersey kid fly into the corner, he got onto the ice from the far corner (like from a zamboni door or door off the ice towards a locker room, where he was probably sent on the penalty). He raced down the entire length of the ice, left his feet leading with his elbow, and blindside smashed the dark jersey kid who had flown into the corner (he was about to square off with the white jersey kid he contacted). EDIT: Fix that, Elbowsaurus was already back on the ice BEFORE the dark jersey kid makes contact from flying into the corner, which probably means he was triggered by the brawl in the corner. So he saw the brawl start, figures, "I gotta get a piece of that," then elbows the nearest/most available player or he might have targeted the kid who flew into the corner after he was already racing for that end. /EDIT It's an unfortunate lack of maturity on the young gentlemens' parts that led to them not being able to handle their high-running emotions. This loss of self control happens in almost every team sport, but the nature of hockey allows the potential injury consequences to be much higher. The fact is that once the kid was directed off the ice on the previous penalty, he should not have been allowed to spectate or remain emotionally involved in the game, let alone be physically able to get back on the ice before the final whistle. Because that didn't happen, it may end up as a black mark on the sport.
Stoner Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 If that kid dies, and I'm Gary Bettman, I wonder how I'm going to sleep at night. That is, if he has a conscience.
shrader Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 If that kid dies, and I'm Gary Bettman, I wonder how I'm going to sleep at night. That is, if he has a conscience. He'll check his bank account, smile, then nod off gracefully.
Eleven Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 They'll have to sit out 99 games "whether they go play for an adult league or for a university"? That doesn't make much sense to me. Does the ECHL or CIS or even the KHL have to respect some Texas high school league's disciplinary rulings? (The NCAA might have an agreement with them or might not.) Also, I don't think seven kids earned 99 game suspensions there. I think one did.
shrader Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 They'll have to sit out 99 games "whether they go play for an adult league or for a university"? That doesn't make much sense to me. Does the ECHL or CIS or even the KHL have to respect some Texas high school league's disciplinary rulings? (The NCAA might have an agreement with them or might not.) Also, I don't think seven kids earned 99 game suspensions there. I think one did. All that matters is whether or not the state penitentiary league honors the suspension.
Weave Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 They slowed down the video and explained how Johnny Flyingelbow got a penalty previously, then when he saw the one dark jersey kid fly into the corner, he got onto the ice from the far corner (like from a zamboni door or door off the ice towards a locker room, where he was probably sent on the penalty). He raced down the entire length of the ice, left his feet leading with his elbow, and blindside smashed the dark jersey kid who had flown into the corner (he was about to square off with the white jersey kid he contacted). EDIT: Fix that, Elbowsaurus was already back on the ice BEFORE the dark jersey kid makes contact from flying into the corner, which probably means he was triggered by the brawl in the corner. So he saw the brawl start, figures, "I gotta get a piece of that," then elbows the nearest/most available player or he might have targeted the kid who flew into the corner after he was already racing for that end. /EDIT It's an unfortunate lack of maturity on the young gentlemens' parts that led to them not being able to handle their high-running emotions. This loss of self control happens in almost every team sport, but the nature of hockey allows the potential injury consequences to be much higher. The fact is that once the kid was directed off the ice on the previous penalty, he should not have been allowed to spectate or remain emotionally involved in the game, let alone be physically able to get back on the ice before the final whistle. Because that didn't happen, it may end up as a black mark on the sport. In all of my youth, playing football, baseball, and hockey I have never, ever seen an incident where one of the kids lost control like this. There is no excusing this as a "stuff happens" and this is why we separate kids sort of event (and IMO this is what it sounds like you are trying to do). This is assault. If it were to happen out in a local basketball court there would be charges filed. And rightfully so. Why should it be any different when it happens on a skating rink?
Eleven Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 All that matters is whether or not the state penitentiary league honors the suspension. I can already tell I'm going to be in the minority here, but I'm not a fan of giving 17 and 18 year olds prison sentences when they make a mistake. By the grownups' accounts on the videos, even Elbowsaurus (great name by the way) is normally pretty docile. Why screw up his whole life by giving him a record? What is that going to accomplish?
IKnowPhysics Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 (and IMO this is what it sounds like you are trying to do) Nope, not in the least. The actions of the players here are absolutely inexcusable. I'll restate a little to clarify my direction. (Sometimes things get lost in text-only conversation.) Emotions in team sports can run high. Kids (and hell, adults) aren't always mature enough to control their emotions. This was a contributing cause to (NOT an excuse for) these events. Due to the fact hockey's played on ice, on skates, with sticks, inside boards, with the ability to skate fast, maybe amplified in part by a physical mentality of the game, I interpret the potential for injury during extreme or awkward physical contact/fighting/assault cases to be greater than it might be for other sports. For example: maybe this kid's jaw doesn't break if this kid was running on turf instead of skating at full tilt. No less excusable, but the potential for injury may be higher.
shrader Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 I can already tell I'm going to be in the minority here, but I'm not a fan of giving 17 and 18 year olds prison sentences when they make a mistake. By the grownups' accounts on the videos, even Elbowsaurus (great name by the way) is normally pretty docile. Why screw up his whole life by giving him a record? What is that going to accomplish? I'm sure there are plenty of people with records who made a single mistake. I see that video and I see assault. The law's the law and if you start giving people free passes because they were clean otherwise, you open up a door to a whole new world of problems (I hope the NHL reads this last sentence).
Eleven Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 I'm sure there are plenty of people with records who made a single mistake. I see that video and I see assault. The law's the law and if you start giving people free passes because they were clean otherwise, you open up a door to a whole new world of problems (I hope the NHL reads this last sentence). I know. In the case of teenagers who make a single mistake, I don't like it. They enter prison as impressionable kids and come out as hardened criminals most of the time. If not, they still have a record to deal with. This opinion transcends sport, and like I said, I realize that it is not a popular opinion.
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