Hecht: is he still worth a roster spot?

[Skibum]

Buying out a player like Hecht to make room for a better player's salary is the just the kind of thing the Sabres might now be willing and able to do with Pegula as owner. Hopefully this is the kind of "blank check" stuff we are hoping to see.

 

That said, Jochen is a steady, if unspectacular, presence on the ice - you rarely have to worry about a major breakdown when he's out there. So I don't mind having him around.

[korab rules]

Other than saying "that dog won't hunt," can you provide any specifics? Any examples of a guy with Pommer's declining production, salary, and # of years left on his contract being traded since the lockout? Even one?

 

If you don't think Pommer's contract is terrible, I don't know what else to say.

 

EDIT: as for Hecht, the only reason his contract arguably isn't "terrible" is that it only has 1 year left. It absolutely was "terrible" before this year.

 

I agree with everything you are saying, but Cheechoo's contract is almost as bad. 3.5 million per over the last two years for even less production than pommers. This would be an example of having to take a bad contract back when moving a acquiring a star player or moving out an equally bad contract.

[carpandean]

Buying out a player like Hecht to make room for a better player's salary is the just the kind of thing the Sabres might now be willing and able to do with Pegula as owner. Hopefully this is the kind of "blank check" stuff we are hoping to see.

Unfortunately, the league has a salary cap and buyouts count against it, so the idea of a blank check doesn't quite fit here. Now, sending Hecht to the AHL (not that I think that will happen) and eating his salary without a cap hit would fit into a "blank check" mentality.

[dumb_dumb88]

Other than saying "that dog won't hunt," can you provide any specifics? Any examples of a guy with Pommer's declining production, salary, and # of years left on his contract being traded since the lockout? Even one?

 

If you don't think Pommer's contract is terrible, I don't know what else to say.

 

EDIT: as for Hecht, the only reason his contract arguably isn't "terrible" is that it only has 1 year left. It absolutely was "terrible" before this year.

I'm sure if you looked hard enough, you'd find a deal or 3, I don't do research for free ;) .

 

As for not thinking Pominville's contract is terrible, there is nothing else to say, you view it on one level, I view it on another. I will not say it is fair value, but I wouldn't go as far as to say it's terrible. It's a million to high to me. If he were a 50 point player with no other demonstratable skills, I'd say it's terrible, but he's not. He's a 60 to 70 point 2 way forward with decent PK skills. He's not exactly a standout as far as a superstar or even stud right wingers go, but he's certainly worth 4 to 4.5 million given the iron man schedule he played up until his injury this season inconjuction with his production numbers and special team skill sets.

 

I agree Hecht had a terrible contract, but as you, with 1 year left I don't view it a horrible contract by any stretch of the imagination. As I continue to state, both of these players in a trade "combined" with some young D assets or picks or a variable of both could bring in a stud center, I won't say superstar, just a servicable center who can put up 70 points and season. Afterall, the package would already include a winger who achieves close to that as it's center piece as well as some interesting variations that could be sent along by the Sabres. I think some teams would be interested in talking, sure.

[Weave]

I'm sure if you looked hard enough, you'd find a deal or 3, I don't do research for free ;) .

 

 

Generally speaking, if you are making a claim and calling it fact, the onus is on you to back it up with evidence.

 

Just sayin'.....

 

korab rules gave you a hand throwing Cheechoo's name out there as an example of what you are claiming, but I should think that the situation with Cheechoo is the exception. Before the salary cap, pairing a bad contract with a high demand player was somewhat common. Low income teams did it every season. the salary cap has made that sort of trade VERY uncommon. I know I can't think of another example beyond Cheechoo from post salary cap days.

 

Edit- It just occurred to me that you may be calling your opinion of the tradeability of Pommers contract as fact. If you meant to say it's your opinion, you should type it out that way. Less internet arguing if you call an opinion an opinion, rather than fact.

[dumb_dumb88]

Generally speaking, if you are making a claim and calling it fact, the onus is on you to back it up with evidence.

 

Just sayin'.....

 

korab rules gave you a hand throwing Cheechoo's name out there as an example of what you are claiming, but I should think that the situation with Cheechoo is the exception. Before the salary cap, pairing a bad contract with a high demand player was somewhat common. Low income teams did it every season. the salary cap has made that sort of trade VERY uncommon. I know I can't think of another example beyond Cheechoo from post salary cap days.

 

Edit- It just occurred to me that you may be calling your opinion of the tradeability of Pommers contract as fact. If you meant to say it's your opinion, you should type it out that way. Less internet arguing if you call an opinion an opinion, rather than fact.

I shouldn't have to pull this out and post it, but, ok. If it's facts you want, it's facts you get.

 

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=432312

 

But I'm more than sure most individuals who post on here regularly were aware of the Gomez to the Canadians trade.

I read about it on here more than several times over the years.

 

Gomez production was on par with Pominvilles, albiet on the high side, but that is not really relivent to the conversation. Pominville is a 60 to 70 point guy all day long, Gomez at that time was a 60 to 70 point guy.

All this nonsense about pulling up proof for such a well documented situation is merely fodder for the cannon to me. No offense guys, but I was putting up my opinion on Pominville, and I can understand and respect if some disagree. But I'm not asking for others to post "facts" or proof of worth of contract for Pominville. I have already stated my opinion that he is a bit over paid.

 

I'd like to focus on Hecht though, and the only reason Pominville was brought up was merely a potential way the club could plausibly go with regards to moving him off of the roster. Others have brought up a buy out option possibility as well. I can't speak to that given I have no idea what Pegula or his upper management team thinks of these type of moves.

 

I would like to think that Hecht is indeed gone at seasons end due to the clog up on the roster now with players that are younger, faster and more productive in certain areas of the game. But I wouldn't be surprised to see Hecht on the roster next year, dissappointed a bit yes, but not surprised.

[X. Benedict]

Did you see Gomez getting booed the other night?

 

Booed during the pregame and when he touched the puck. Not common in Montreal.

[Weave]

I shouldn't have to pull this out and post it, but, ok. If it's facts you want, it's facts you get.

 

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=432312

 

But I'm more than sure most individuals who post on here regularly were aware of the Gomez to the Canadians trade.

I read about it on here more than several times over the years.

 

Gomez production was on par with Pominvilles, albiet on the high side, but that is not really relivent to the conversation. Pominville is a 60 to 70 point guy all day long, Gomez at that time was a 60 to 70 point guy.

All this nonsense about pulling up proof for such a well documented situation is merely fodder for the cannon to me. No offense guys, but I was putting up my opinion on Pominville, and I can understand and respect if some disagree. But I'm not asking for others to post "facts" or proof of worth of contract for Pominville. I have already stated my opinion that he is a bit over paid.

 

I'd like to focus on Hecht though, and the only reason Pominville was brought up was merely a potential way the club could plausibly go with regards to moving him off of the roster. Others have brought up a buy out option possibility as well. I can't speak to that given I have no idea what Pegula or his upper management team thinks of these type of moves.

 

I would like to think that Hecht is indeed gone at seasons end due to the clog up on the roster now with players that are younger, faster and more productive in certain areas of the game. But I wouldn't be surprised to see Hecht on the roster next year, dissappointed a bit yes, but not surprised.

 

Just so you know, I wasn't trying to give you a hard time with this. To be honest, I don't really have a horse in this race. I'm pretty wishy-washy when it comes to Pomminstein and Hecht. Just trying to point out some forum protocol.

 

And I'd forgotten the Gomez deal. What a stinker of a contract that one is. Makes Pommer look like a bargain.

[dumb_dumb88]

Just so you know, I wasn't trying to give you a hard time with this. To be honest, I don't really have a horse in this race. I'm pretty wishy-washy when it comes to Pomminstein and Hecht. Just trying to point out some forum protocol.

 

And I'd forgotten the Gomez deal. What a stinker of a contract that one is. Makes Pommer look like a bargain.

I know Weave (and have I thanked you enough yet for helping me out on the cap geek thing :thumbsup: ), I forgot to put the little winky face next to my first line, it was sarcasm. My son scolded me this morning before he went to classes and told me you guys won't know unless I do this. I'm learning though. Just not used to the little animated stuff. It takes me a long time to put up a paragraph, I'm an old fart ya know :( :D .

 

I won't focus on Pominville though for the discussion since the title is about Hecht. I just can't see Hecht being moved for very much in a stand alone trade. Just my thoughts is all.

 

P.S. I have to learn to shorten my answers my son says, it'll make it easier for me to type and he says you guys will get what I'm saying, so please bare with me.

Out of all those little facy things, I like this one the best by the way :wallbash: (This one is way cool)

[papazoid]

Hecht is a solid player who doesn't shrink in the playoffs when things get tougher. he is 8th on the team in plus/minus. however, at $3.5 mil salary thru next season, he is overpaid and at risk when compared to Mancari, Luke Adams and other youngsters. that money could and should be used for an all star defenseman who can QB the power play. if he shows in this years playoffs i would let his contract playout. if he has a bad playoff i would look to move him during offseason.

 

P.S.....i would unload neidermeyer and then grier before hecht.

[inkman]

P.S.....i would unload neidermeyer and then grier before hecht.

Good thing, both are UFA's at end of season!!

[Marvelo]

Hecht is a solid player who doesn't shrink in the playoffs when things get tougher. he is 8th on the team in plus/minus. however, at $3.5 mil salary thru next season, he is overpaid and at risk when compared to Mancari, Luke Adams and other youngsters. that money could and should be used for an all star defenseman who can QB the power play. if he shows in this years playoffs i would let his contract playout. if he has a bad playoff i would look to move him during offseason.

 

P.S.....i would unload neidermeyer and then grier before hecht.

 

I agree, but do you think they've long figured out he likes those sharp angle shots?. I'd prefer Mancari now.

[Taro T]

Hecht is a solid player who doesn't shrink in the playoffs when things get tougher. he is 8th on the team in plus/minus. however, at $3.5 mil salary thru next season, he is overpaid and at risk when compared to Mancari, Luke Adams and other youngsters. that money could and should be used for an all star defenseman who can QB the power play. if he shows in this years playoffs i would let his contract playout. if he has a bad playoff i would look to move him during offseason.

 

P.S.....i would unload neidermeyer and then grier before hecht.

My thoughts on Jochen heading into next season.

 

I do not see Neids or Grier back on the roster next year. While technically guys like Pomms, Vanek, Gaustad, Roy, etc are vets; I don't consider any of them to be 'grisled vets.' With those other 2 gone, Jochen is the only forward that falls into that category IMHO. I fully expect to see him back next year (unless the 1-2 FA's (or blockbuster trades) that are brought in are such high $ that they have to get rid of him to squeeze under the cap; which I don't see happening), bad contract & all.

 

As much as the injuries hurt back in '06, the youthfulness of the team compared to the more balanced (experience-wise) Canes was also a factor in the 3rd periods in Raleigh, again IMHO. I don't see the Sabres jettisoning all the experience from the front lines this offseason. He was definitely missed in the playoffs last year.

 

Throw in the flexibility that Jochen brings and I expect to see him back. While others have mentioned his 'disinterest' at times this year, and he definitely hasn't been as strong on the backcheck as he has in the past; I don't think that LR & DR are as concerned about the 'disinterest' as some here are. You don't give an 'A' to a player that you consider to be 'disinterested.'

[LGR4GM]

For a guy that was on a stretcher over the ice with a major dome dinger back in October. Pominville has had a respectable year.

Totally agree. Pommers may be overpaid but he makes when healthy 60-70pts average a season, which is good and helpful. Not to mention he never seems to be making bad passes to the other team an giving up great scoring opportunities. Hecht has had issues both with health and production and turnovers so he is worth less of a roster spot to me then pommers

[spndnchz]

Totally agree. Pommers may be overpaid but he makes when healthy 60-70pts average a season, which is good and helpful. Not to mention he never seems to be making bad passes to the other team an giving up great scoring opportunities. Hecht has had issues both with health and production and turnovers so he is worth less of a roster spot to me then pommers

 

I'll give u the health bit but they both have the same number of giveaways in the same number of games. As for the production, well, that's why Pommers makes so much more.

[deluca67]

If you believe Paul Hamilton, Lindy Ruff considers Hecht a candidate for the 'C'. He ain't going nowhere, as the man said.

[thesportsbuff]

one thing's for sure, i'll take hecht in the lineup over mancari 365 days of the year

[dumb_dumb88]

one thing's for sure, i'll take hecht in the lineup over mancari 365 days of the year

My husband would agree with you, but I don't think I do. I've enjoyed his game since watching him this long stretch.

Dumb Dumb would say his skating is suspect or not good enough or some other dumb dumb comment but he never gives Mancari any credit when he does well. I think he plays great with my new heart hotty, Gerbe (if he was only 5 inches taller). :wub:

 

Anywho, I don't like Hetch, I think he is lazy and players around him suffer from his play. I don't like him, plus he didn't sign an autograph on my nephew's team photo we got. That pissed me off. :censored:

[nfreeman]

If he were a 50 point player with no other demonstratable skills, I'd say it's terrible, but he's not. He's a 60 to 70 point 2 way forward with decent PK skills.

 

I shouldn't have to pull this out and post it, but, ok. If it's facts you want, it's facts you get.

 

http://www.nhl.com/i...s.htm?id=432312

 

But I'm more than sure most individuals who post on here regularly were aware of the Gomez to the Canadians trade.

I read about it on here more than several times over the years.

 

Gomez production was on par with Pominvilles, albiet on the high side, but that is not really relivent to the conversation. Pominville is a 60 to 70 point guy all day long, Gomez at that time was a 60 to 70 point guy.

 

Totally agree. Pommers may be overpaid but he makes when healthy 60-70pts average a season, which is good and helpful. Not to mention he never seems to be making bad passes to the other team an giving up great scoring opportunities. Hecht has had issues both with health and production and turnovers so he is worth less of a roster spot to me then pommers

1. Pominville is not a "60 to 70 point player." He has hit 70 points exactly once in his 6-year career.

 

2. Pominville may or may not get to 50 points this year in 73 games.

 

3. Pominville had 62 points last year and was invisible in the playoffs, when his team really needed him and he had an opportunity to step up and show that he could be a crunch-time contributor.

 

4. Gomez has an even worse contract than Pommer, but he is a significantly better player than Pommer. If their contracts were identical, would anyone here not trade Pommer for Gomez?

 

5. Would anyone care to bet that the Sabres will not be able to unload Pommer without taking back a really bad contract in the deal?

 

My thoughts on Jochen heading into next season.

 

I do not see Neids or Grier back on the roster next year. While technically guys like Pomms, Vanek, Gaustad, Roy, etc are vets; I don't consider any of them to be 'grisled vets.' With those other 2 gone, Jochen is the only forward that falls into that category IMHO. I fully expect to see him back next year (unless the 1-2 FA's (or blockbuster trades) that are brought in are such high $ that they have to get rid of him to squeeze under the cap; which I don't see happening), bad contract & all.

 

As much as the injuries hurt back in '06, the youthfulness of the team compared to the more balanced (experience-wise) Canes was also a factor in the 3rd periods in Raleigh, again IMHO. I don't see the Sabres jettisoning all the experience from the front lines this offseason. He was definitely missed in the playoffs last year.

 

Throw in the flexibility that Jochen brings and I expect to see him back. While others have mentioned his 'disinterest' at times this year, and he definitely hasn't been as strong on the backcheck as he has in the past; I don't think that LR & DR are as concerned about the 'disinterest' as some here are. You don't give an 'A' to a player that you consider to be 'disinterested.'

I generally agree with this post, although I can see Grier back next year, as I think he still brings something otherwise lacking on this team. I wouldn't be stunned to see Hecht gone this summer, but I would be surprised. FWIW, I like Hecht and I think he's had a pretty good year, despite being overpaid by $1.7MM or so.

 

If you believe Paul Hamilton, Lindy Ruff considers Hecht a candidate for the 'C'. He ain't going nowhere, as the man said.

I still think Hecht is more likely to get the C than Vanek is.

[Weave]

1. Pominville is not a "60 to 70 point player." He has hit 70 points exactly once in his 6-year career.

 

2. Pominville may or may not get to 50 points this year in 73 games.

 

3. Pominville had 62 points last year and was invisible in the playoffs, when his team really needed him and he had an opportunity to step up and show that he could be a crunch-time contributor.

 

4. Gomez has an even worse contract than Pommer, but he is a significantly better player than Pommer. If their contracts were identical, would anyone here not trade Pommer for Gomez?

 

5. Would anyone care to bet that the Sabres will not be able to unload Pommer without taking back a really bad contract in the deal?

 

 

I generally agree with this post, although I can see Grier back next year, as I think he still brings something otherwise lacking on this team. I wouldn't be stunned to see Hecht gone this summer, but I would be surprised. FWIW, I like Hecht and I think he's had a pretty good year, despite being overpaid by $1.7MM or so.

 

 

I still think Hecht is more likely to get the C than Vanek is.

 

You and I are in agreement here.

 

Is that a sign of the apocolypse?

[dumb_dumb88]

1. Pominville is not a "60 to 70 point player." He has hit 70 points exactly once in his 6-year career.

 

2. Pominville may or may not get to 50 points this year in 73 games.

 

3. Pominville had 62 points last year and was invisible in the playoffs, when his team really needed him and he had an opportunity to step up and show that he could be a crunch-time contributor.

 

I'll work backwards here.

He scored pivotal goals in the playoffs in 05/06 and 06/07. True, last years playoff series wasn't his best, but he did have 4 points in 6 games (2 goals/2 assists), I would hardly consider that invisible.

 

Pominville may or may not get to 50 points "IF" he completes 73 games, but given the injury (by the way, the first time in 5 seasons he's missed a game or games) and the time since, I believe he could have achieved another 60 + point season.

 

Pominville's season stats since playing full seasons:

06/07 = 34G + 34A / 68 Points

07/08 = 27G + 53A / 80 Points

08/09 = 20G + 46A / 66 Points

09/10 = 24G + 38A / 62 Points

 

So, it would appear he's been below 65 points 1 time in the 4 seasons he played 82 games. Hmmmm.......I don't know, color purple and call me pink, but that looks like it falls inbetween 60 and 70 points. :blink:

 

So let's look at this season:

10/11 = 19G + 26A / 45 Points

 

73 Games, a concussion and a slow start have contributed to the down numbers, but there is no reason to me in any event, that would negate the fact he could have reached 60 points or more this season again.

And he's potted 2 very good first goals of a game, both within the first minute in a couple of games here recently.

Once again, just my opinion, but Pominville is more than movable.

 

As for Gomez vs Pominville and who is better, I haven't made any such claim that he is or is not better, but I wouldn't want Gomez on the Sabres over Pominville given his decline in performance, no thanks.

I merely pointed to the Gomez trade when you asked to show you one, so I did. Don't shoot the messenger, you asked, I responded.

[X. Benedict]

I'll work backwards here.

He scored pivotal goals in the playoffs in 05/06 and 06/07. True, last years playoff series wasn't his best, but he did have 4 points in 6 games (2 goals/2 assists), I would hardly consider that invisible.

 

Pominville may or may not get to 50 points "IF" he completes 73 games, but given the injury (by the way, the first time in 5 seasons he's missed a game or games) and the time since, I believe he could have achieved another 60 + point season.

 

Pominville's season stats since playing full seasons:

06/07 = 34G + 34A / 68 Points

07/08 = 27G + 53A / 80 Points

08/09 = 20G + 46A / 66 Points

09/10 = 24G + 38A / 62 Points

 

So, it would appear he's been below 65 points 1 time in the 4 seasons he played 82 games. Hmmmm.......I don't know, color purple and call me pink, but that looks like it falls inbetween 60 and 70 points. :blink:

 

So let's look at this season:

10/11 = 19G + 26A / 45 Points

 

73 Games, a concussion and a slow start have contributed to the down numbers, but there is no reason to me in any event, that would negate the fact he could have reached 60 points or more this season again.

And he's potted 2 very good first goals of a game, both within the first minute in a couple of games here recently.

Once again, just my opinion, but Pominville is more than movable.

 

As for Gomez vs Pominville and who is better, I haven't made any such claim that he is or is not better, but I wouldn't want Gomez on the Sabres over Pominville given his decline in performance, no thanks.

I merely pointed to the Gomez trade when you asked to show you one, so I did. Don't shoot the messenger, you asked, I responded.

Good post.

 

I think mostly this is a case where the size of his contract informs the judgements about his play. He's still a good player.

 

As for the playoffs last year. He played pretty well, except the game where the entire team melted down after Vanek got hurt where he was uncharacteristically bad. Maybe one of his worst games ever. He was getting his shot off, but hit quite a few posts IIRC.

 

It's almost a year ago, but he probably spent about a third of that series on the PK, and had some monster shifts. (okay, the PK is never sexy, but he was good.)

[dumb_dumb88]

Good post.

 

I think mostly this is a case where the size of his contract informs the judgements about his play. He's still a good player.

 

As for the playoffs last year. He played pretty well, except the game where the entire team melted down after Vanek got hurt where he was uncharacteristically bad. Maybe one of his worst games ever. He was getting his shot off, but hit quite a few posts IIRC.

 

It's almost a year ago, but he probably spent about a third of that series on the PK, and had some monster shifts. (okay, the PK is never sexy, but he was good.)

And I tend to agree with you about the contract and judgements.

I only see the Sabres able to really maximize a return for a decent stud center with a package deal, and to me, Pominville is the prime candidate of all of the right wingers because of that contract.

Some people question his worth due to the contract, well, go back to exhibit A and look at a "package deal". That's basically where I point them to.

I don't see Boyes ($4 mil for next season) or Stafford (most likely around $3.5 to $4 mil on his next contract) getting moved due to their pricing as well as the offensive upside they can offer.

That's where my thinking on this is.

[henysgol]

Nope

[LGR4GM]

I'll work backwards here.

He scored pivotal goals in the playoffs in 05/06 and 06/07. True, last years playoff series wasn't his best, but he did have 4 points in 6 games (2 goals/2 assists), I would hardly consider that invisible.

 

Pominville may or may not get to 50 points "IF" he completes 73 games, but given the injury (by the way, the first time in 5 seasons he's missed a game or games) and the time since, I believe he could have achieved another 60 + point season.

 

Pominville's season stats since playing full seasons:

06/07 = 34G + 34A / 68 Points

07/08 = 27G + 53A / 80 Points

08/09 = 20G + 46A / 66 Points

09/10 = 24G + 38A / 62 Points

 

So, it would appear he's been below 65 points 1 time in the 4 seasons he played 82 games. Hmmmm.......I don't know, color purple and call me pink, but that looks like it falls inbetween 60 and 70 points. :blink:

 

So let's look at this season:

10/11 = 19G + 26A / 45 Points

 

73 Games, a concussion and a slow start have contributed to the down numbers, but there is no reason to me in any event, that would negate the fact he could have reached 60 points or more this season again.

And he's potted 2 very good first goals of a game, both within the first minute in a couple of games here recently.

Once again, just my opinion, but Pominville is more than movable.

 

As for Gomez vs Pominville and who is better, I haven't made any such claim that he is or is not better, but I wouldn't want Gomez on the Sabres over Pominville given his decline in performance, no thanks.

I merely pointed to the Gomez trade when you asked to show you one, so I did. Don't shoot the messenger, you asked, I responded.

Thank you for posting this before I had a chance because I almost flipped when I saw that "pommers is not a 60-70pt guy"... minus this year he is. I dont really care that much that he sucked in the playoffs last year because ummm didnt everyone?

Pommers still and has been shooting well and again played well against the laughs. Pommers is movable beyond a doubt as he has 5 seasons of 20goals or more and is not extremely overpriced. If I had to choose, i choose pommers over drew but hey thats me.

Pommers isnt a 60-70pt guy... give me a break.