IKnowPhysics Posted March 21, 2011 Report Posted March 21, 2011 The landscape of NCAA men's ice hockey is about to change for the better. With the existence of hockey programs at six Big Ten schools, they are now eligible to create a new conference in NCAA hockey. And they will: Big Ten hockey will start for 2012-2013. Announcement: http://www.ncaa.com/news/icehockey-men/2011-03-21/big-ten-add-mens-hockey-2013 This conference will be consist of Wisconsin and Minnesota (currently WCHA), Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, and Penn State (currently CCHA). The new conference will undoubtedly have a number of ripple effects: a) NCAA women's ice hockey affiliations will likely be affected, perhaps with the formation of Big Ten women's hockey. b) Television rights of these games may at some point be transferred to nationally-available Big Ten Network. c) The more regionally local conference will be cheaper/easier for travel (reminder: WCHA spans from the Eastern Time Zone to Alaska). d) The conference will also likely get an automatic bid, which would be one guaranteed team to the NCAA tournament per year for only these few six teams. e) Out of conference schedules will allow for continued play in historical rivalries. This all came about because Penn State was granted a brand new hockey program and facilities by Terry Pegula.
LabattBlue Posted March 21, 2011 Report Posted March 21, 2011 Maybe a chance for Niagara and even Canisius to jump into one of the spots being vacated by Big 10 schools in either the CCHA or WCHA.
PromoTheRobot Posted March 21, 2011 Report Posted March 21, 2011 Bull Run Tim Riordan, one of the bloggers at UB sports site Bull Run, suggests if the Mid-America Conference (MAC) dropped baseball as a requirement for membership, several MAC schools, including UB could make the jump from ACHA Club to NCAA D-1. UB already has an 1,800 seat arena less than a 1,000 feet from campus in the Amherst Ice Center. Riordan estimates UB could start a program for around $1M. Anyone think Pegs could drop a mil or two on UB to get another D-1 program off the ground? PTR
LabattBlue Posted March 21, 2011 Report Posted March 21, 2011 Bull Run Tim Riordan, one of the bloggers at UB sports site Bull Run, suggests if the Mid-America Conference (MAC) dropped baseball as a requirement for membership, several MAC schools, including UB could make the jump from ACHA Club to NCAA D-1. UB already has an 1,800 seat arena less than a 1,000 feet from campus in the Amherst Ice Center. Riordan estimates UB could start a program for around $1M. Anyone think Pegs could drop a mil or two on UB to get another D-1 proram off the ground? PTR I've stated many times that D1 hockey and lacrosse should be no brainers for UB considering the talent pool in their own backyard(WNY and Southern Ontario).
PromoTheRobot Posted March 21, 2011 Report Posted March 21, 2011 I've stated many times that D1 hockey and lacrosse should be no brainers for UB considering the talent pool in their own backyard(WNY and Southern Ontario). UB had a study done that said the exact same thing. The hold up is money, Title IX and certain MAC requirements like baseball. Replacing baseball (which is dominated by Southern and Western schools) with hockey makes too much sense. PTR
Wayne VanDorp Posted March 21, 2011 Report Posted March 21, 2011 So that would leave Iowa, Northwestern, Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, and (now) Nebraska as non-hockey Big 10 schools. Can't see any of them adding teams, so the hockey league has room to grow. Notre Dame would seem logical, as would (perhaps) Bowling Green, Miami, Michigan Tech, Minnesota State, Minnesota-Duluth, etc. Vacancies would open in CCHA for teams like Air Force, RIT or Niagara.
darksabre Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Maybe a chance for Niagara and even Canisius to jump into one of the spots being vacated by Big 10 schools in either the CCHA or WCHA. Canisius should worry about being competitive in the AHA first.
Buffalo Wings Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 So that would leave Iowa, Northwestern, Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, and (now) Nebraska as non-hockey Big 10 schools. Can't see any of them adding teams, so the hockey league has room to grow. Notre Dame would seem logical, as would (perhaps) Bowling Green, Miami, Michigan Tech, Minnesota State, Minnesota-Duluth, etc. Vacancies would open in CCHA for teams like Air Force, RIT or Niagara. And for Alabama-Huntsville (the only independent D-I hockey school). This can really change the landscape for college hockey as we know it. It would seem that RIT and Niagara would be a better fit for the ECAC, based on geography, but I don't see the ECAC expanding anytime soon.
shrader Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 The long running joke among college hockey fans has finally come true. Those 6 teams are going to get really sick of playing each other constantly.
korab rules Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 This is great news - would love to see some college hockey available on Big Ten network - would finally give me a reason to watch it.
Weave Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 The long running joke among college hockey fans has finally come true. Those 6 teams are going to get really sick of playing each other constantly. Please elaborate.
shrader Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Please elaborate. Fans have joked for years that they should start the BTHC. It was always such a ridiculous long shot, but then some billionaire went and donated a ton of money.
LabattBlue Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Fans have joked for years that they should start the BTHC. It was always such a ridiculous long shot, but then some billionaire went and donated a ton of money. Where is it stated that they can't play out of conference games? Isn't that common place in all D1 sports? :blink:
shrader Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Where is it stated that they can't play out of conference games? Isn't that common place in all D1 sports? :blink: They can play out of conference, but there's a limit on the total number of games allowed. With the other conferences being pretty full, those teams won't have as many out of conference games to offer. So at some point the BTHC teams are probably going to have to fill in some of their out of conference games with additional games within the conference.
IKnowPhysics Posted March 22, 2011 Author Report Posted March 22, 2011 They can play out of conference, but there's a limit on the total number of games allowed. With the other conferences being pretty full, those teams won't have as many out of conference games to offer. So at some point the BTHC teams are probably going to have to fill in some of their out of conference games with additional games within the conference. Not likely. The current WCHA schedule is choked with conference games, smaller conferences will help variety. WCHA currently has 13 members; the Badgers played only 6 out-of-conference games (of a 38 game season, including the BHS). With 5 opponents, they'll be able to play both home and away weekends versus conference opponents (instead of only getting one or the other each season*) AND still have room for 19 or 20 out-of-conference games. Future WCHA opponents will be freed up of a previously committed four conference games EACH, leaving up to 44 out-of-conference games available to an out-of-conference schedule. *And in fact, Badgers didn't even see Ohio State this year, they saw Minnesota and Duluth twice. For good in-conference hockey, that's stupid. INCH Agrees: http://insidecollegehockey.com/inch/2011/03/19/bigten/ ...some kind of schedule-sharing arrangement which would allow some of the league’s traditional rivalries with the Gophers and Badgers to continue... A six-team Big Ten conference, made up of Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Ohio State, Penn State and Wisconsin, would mean 20 conference games, leaving plenty of room for non-conference scheduling. At least one former college player INCH spoke to on Saturday was exceedingly positive on the idea... “It’s going to be fun to see Michigan play Minnesota a lot, and Wisconsin, the teams up this way. It’s going to be really fun.”
IKnowPhysics Posted March 22, 2011 Author Report Posted March 22, 2011 Bull Run Tim Riordan, one of the bloggers at UB sports site Bull Run, suggests if the Mid-America Conference (MAC) dropped baseball as a requirement for membership, several MAC schools, including UB could make the jump from ACHA Club to NCAA D-1. UB already has an 1,800 seat arena less than a 1,000 feet from campus in the Amherst Ice Center. Riordan estimates UB could start a program for around $1M. Anyone think Pegs could drop a mil or two on UB to get another D-1 program off the ground? PTR I'm all for D-1 hockey at my alma mater, I really am, and I appreciate the article's attempt to generate interest in UB hockey. Riordan needs to stop being retarded. $1M per year is all fine and well if you want to cheap out. And if you never consider IMMENSE TRAVEL COSTS. And if you don't want to have proper training facilities, event support staff, marketing, or recruiting. Or any of the aforementioned needs of high enough quality to attract athletes and be competitive. I worked as a volunteer with UB's club team when I was an undergrad. You can really stretch a dollar with a club team, but you're not getting away with that if you try to build the fundamentals of a college program. Average expense per team per year for current men's ice hockey teams in the MAC in 2009: $1.59M. Average expense per team per year for current men's ice hockey teams in the Big Ten: in 2009: $2.79M. Average expense per team per year for current men's ice hockey teams in the Big East in 2009: $1.67M. Source: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics These are also far below the $3.6M some bloggers expect Penn State to spend annually (http://www.sportsagentblog.com/2011/02/22/penn-state-hockey-gets-another-donation/) Edit2: operating costs: ~$1.3M, facility costs ~$2.3M. Edit: I suppose my supplemental point is that in order to really reintroduce college hockey back to UB, it needs to be done right.
korab rules Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 I'm all for D-1 hockey at my alma mater, I really am, and I appreciate the article's attempt to generate interest in UB hockey. Riordan needs to stop being retarded. $1M per year is all fine and well if you want to cheap out. And if you never consider IMMENSE TRAVEL COSTS. And if you don't want to have proper training facilities, event support staff, marketing, or recruiting. Or any of the aforementioned needs of high enough quality to attract athletes and be competitive. I worked as a volunteer with UB's club team when I was an undergrad. You can really stretch a dollar with a club team, but you're not getting away with that if you try to build the fundamentals of a college program. Average expense per team per year for current men's ice hockey teams in the MAC in 2009: $1.59M. Average expense per team per year for current men's ice hockey teams in the Big Ten: in 2009: $2.79M. Average expense per team per year for current men's ice hockey teams in the Big East in 2009: $1.67M. Source: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics These are also far below the $3.6M some bloggers expect Penn State to spend annually (http://www.sportsage...other-donation/) Edit: I suppose my supplemental point is that in order to really reintroduce college hockey back to UB, it needs to be done right. Apparently there is no salary cap on amenities and support services in the NCAA, either! Will they add more recruiters, also? NCAA Hockey Heaven?
X. Benedict Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 As long as this doesn't turn into a Ohio State Harry Neale story, I'm good. :)
Assquatch Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Dominos/ Mmm pizza. Are Dominos and pizza in some way connected?
IKnowPhysics Posted March 22, 2011 Author Report Posted March 22, 2011 Apparently there is no salary cap on amenities and support services in the NCAA, either! Will they add more recruiters, also? NCAA Hockey Heaven? Bah, going back and redoing that blogger's math, he included the cost of the arena (he figured $2.3M per year). So, Penn State could be reasonable for annual costs. But he also makes the point that the arena construction/facilities is the one area (even by NCAA admission) that can be crucial to player recruitment. NCAA: "Facilities 'Arms Race'" http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Issues/Commercialism/Facilities+arms+race
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