Eleven Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 I'm fine with everything he wrote. I do think the intent was there, but it's obviously something you can never prove. The intent to deliver an illegal hit definitely was there. "Let's punish him for beating me to the puck." The intent to injure, frankly, I doubt it. But an intentional illegal hit coupled with an injury should mean a serious suspension, not a couple of games. And for the "don't punish the result" folks, well, that's what just about every criminal justice system I'm aware of is based on. Punch a guy and hurt him, that's assault and/or battery (depending on where you live); if the same punch kills him, that's manslaughter or even murder (again depending on where you live).
Robviously Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 This is the NHL we're talking about so your suggestion is pretty much pointless. They've already proven several times that they don't operate that way. Can't disagree with any of this.
BuffaloFansR_Crazy Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 "The NHL is holding a noon conference call hearing and the league can't win: If Chara is suspended, people think it's because of the favoritism to old bastion Montreal. If Chara isn't suspended, it's because Campbell & Co. let the Bruins off the hook with Gregory on the roster. A lose-lose." ~Mike Harrington. I think Mike brings up a good point.
LGR4GM Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 If the hit was illegal, suspension. If the hit was legal and it was just an "oh sh^t" moment let it go. Campbell on Umburger = legal hit even though umburger got injured, no one really complained much. Myers and Malkin's injury = legal and other than stupid pens fans no one complained much. Chara on Pacioretty = illegal whether he gets injured or not so should be a suspension, the fact that pacioretty was almost killed, should = an extra couple of games but hey I don't hand out suspensions so w/e.
shrader Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 The intent to deliver an illegal hit definitely was there. "Let's punish him for beating me to the puck." The intent to injure, frankly, I doubt it. But an intentional illegal hit coupled with an injury should mean a serious suspension, not a couple of games. And for the "don't punish the result" folks, well, that's what just about every criminal justice system I'm aware of is based on. Punch a guy and hurt him, that's assault and/or battery (depending on where you live); if the same punch kills him, that's manslaughter or even murder (again depending on where you live). I think there is clearly intent to put him into the bench. There's an upward push in that hit and it's pretty clear. Why else would a guy who is eighty feet tall be forcing someone upward in a hit? While I do believe he knew exactly where he was when he made the hit, there is no proof of it. So yes, there is clear intent for an illegal hit and since it lead to a serious injury, suspension is warranted. The one thing I've never liked is when these kind of disciplinary hearings are compared to any countries criminal justice system. I can't really place my finger on it, but something about those comparisons doesn't seem right to me.
Hephaestus Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 The proof of recklessness was in the use of his hand. The body/momentum would have been more than enough to make the check, but bringing his hand into it late is where it got dirty. Proof is in this still frame: http://twitpic.com/47s8ub
Robviously Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 The proof of recklessness was in the use of his hand. The body/momentum would have been more than enough to make the check, but bringing his hand into it late is where it got dirty. Proof is in this still frame: http://twitpic.com/47s8ub Cue the people shrieking that it all happened so fast. <_< Almost everything that happens in an NHL hockey game happens fast and almost all of it is intentional. Chara went out of his way to drive Pacioretty's head into a solid wall of glass. He should get a serious suspension, and probably won't.
Mango Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 if it hadnt been by the box by the bench (ie in the corner or skating up the boards) i am not sure we would even be talking about this
shrader Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 if it hadnt been by the box by the bench (ie in the corner or skating up the boards) i am not sure we would even be talking about this And if Lee Harvey Oswald hadn't bought that gun...
LGR4GM Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 Everyone guess what the NHL will realistically do, I am going with 3 games suspension.
Weave Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 if it hadnt been by the box by the bench (ie in the corner or skating up the boards) i am not sure we would even be talking about this Chara knew where he was. He intended to use that brace at the end of the bench. Sends a nice message to the Habs, don't it?
spndnchz Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 Subban says Pacioretty has broken vertabrea.
LGR4GM Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/dregerreport/ Read the first one on Chara and the last one about head-checking as they are both relevant.
Buffalo Wings Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 Bob McKenzie has a pretty balanced column on the incident. I agree with most of what he says, but I think suspensions for this type of play need to be longer to have any real deterrent effect: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=357203 To me, it's just like a high-sticking penalty. Many times, the offender doesn't intend for his stick to hit anywhere near the opponent's head, but it happens as the result of getting tangled with other players. The offender is penalized because he is ultimately responsible for his stick, even if he genuinely didn't mean to lose control of it. I agree with McKenzie - the hit was late, it was interference, and even though Pacioretty was injured because of the configuration of the boards/glass, he wouldn't have been injured if Chara didn't hit him illegally. I might want to make the suspension 5 games, but that's just me. I'm assuming that McKenzie is going on a history of suspensions when he says 2 games, so whatever.
craze Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 A few things that I've noticed about Chara and about plays like this: 1) He grabs, clutches and hooks as much as anyone and usually gets away with it. Is it just more noticeable because he is freakishly huge? Yes but the way he plays the game defensively is not legal. 2) That very type of interference has shown an unwelcome return to the game. Perhaps it was called on that play but why are guys once again being allowed to clutch, grab and cut off players as they try to skate down the ice? Does the NHL not want exciting, offensive hockey. Check the numbers and I think we'll find we are again heading towards incredibly low goal totals and that is going to turn fans like me off to this game. 3) Chara will tend to pick on the smallish players and turn tale from the bigger players. Did anybody notice the players that were out at the time that play occurred? Gionta is almost half his size.
Buffalo Wings Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 if it hadnt been by the box by the bench (ie in the corner or skating up the boards) i am not sure we would even be talking about this Which has been addressed 100 times already...that's not the point. Chara may not even had touched Pacioretty if it was on the other side of the ice or in the corners. If Chara had hit him 10 feet further away from the partition and Pacioretty stumbled, fell forward, and hit the exact same spot, it would still be a suspension-able hit.
Sterling Archer Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 And if Lee Harvey Oswald hadn't bought that gun... Everybody knows I shot Kennedy because him and Bobby were actually Russian sleeper agents then framed Oswald, hired Jack Ruby to kill him, and then poisoned Ruby so it would take another 4 years to kill him.
shrader Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 3) Chara will tend to pick on the smallish players and turn tale from the bigger players. Did anybody notice the players that were out at the time that play occurred? Gionta is almost half his size. Montreal isn't really a great example though. There is very little size on that team, and what they do have is mostly on the blueline. You're not going to see very many occasions where Hal Gill is the guy skating in on Chara. And for the record, Pacioretty is 6'2, 196. A little on the lean side maybe, but not terribly undersized.
ParkMeadow Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 A few things that I've noticed about Chara and about plays like this: 1) He grabs, clutches and hooks as much as anyone and usually gets away with it. Is it just more noticeable because he is freakishly huge? Yes but the way he plays the game defensively is not legal. 2) That very type of interference has shown an unwelcome return to the game. Perhaps it was called on that play but why are guys once again being allowed to clutch, grab and cut off players as they try to skate down the ice? Does the NHL not want exciting, offensive hockey. Check the numbers and I think we'll find we are again heading towards incredibly low goal totals and that is going to turn fans like me off to this game. 3) Chara will tend to pick on the smallish players and turn tale from the bigger players. Did anybody notice the players that were out at the time that play occurred? Gionta is almost half his size. Excellent points, and I agree with all of them. Dreger reports Pach has severe concussion AND fracture of 4th cervical vertebra. I guess this is just part of the game, huh? The NHL has asked for this kind of result by letting things slide back to pre-lockout thuggery. A slap on the wrist to Chara would be a HUGE mistake.
biodork Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 Excellent points, and I agree with all of them. Dreger reports Pach has severe concussion AND fracture of 4th cervical vertebra. I guess this is just part of the game, huh? The NHL has asked for this kind of result by letting things slide back to pre-lockout thuggery. A slap on the wrist to Chara would be a HUGE mistake. Yikes. I didn't see this in the link, though - did I miss it, or was this somewhere else?
LGR4GM Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=357246 Chz said he had vertebrae broken and here is the story/update
ParkMeadow Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 Yikes. I didn't see this in the link, though - did I miss it, or was this somewhere else? Sorry about no link - I heard it on NHL Live on XM!
biodork Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=357246 Chz said he had vertebrae broken and here is the story/update Thanks - didn't see it in the original report text but noticed it after in the "Tweetbox". Poor kid, hope he makes a full recovery.
LaLaLaFontaine Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 This hit looks like attempted manslaughter. Maybe Chara donated Pach a paraplegia, because he is just such a nice guy. I am sorry but in a case like this you have to make an example. Suspend this bastard for the rest of the saison including the playoffs.
spndnchz Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 C4 (cervical vertebra): The fourth cervical (neck) vertebra from the top. Injuries above the C-4 level may require a ventilator for the person to breathe properly.
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