Calling All Miserable Superheroes....

[That Aud Smell]

2. Frankly, I thought the most interesting thing was the fact that he took 2 unveiled shots at TG -- the "DR is used to hearing no" comment, and then the comment about Tallinder and Lydman.

i missed that, actually. interesting.

 

 

Right now the only certains are Rene Robert, a new carpet, and 23 new scouts under the direction of head hockey man, Darcy Regier.

:lol:

 

seriously, though -- having a bunch more boots on the ground has the potential to make a real difference.

[Stoner]

i missed that, actually. interesting.

 

 

 

:lol:

 

seriously, though -- having a bunch more boots on the ground has the potential to make a real difference.

 

TP as Petraeus. Interesting.

[Stoner]

 

4. I think the driving force behind most of the criticism of TP in this thread was his support for DR, when most of the critics here want DR gone. Everyone here just seems to assume that the fact that TP is supporting DR means that TP, despite being a good guy and willing to spend a lot of $ to improve the Sabres, is dumb, because he supports DR and DR stinks, so that means TP must be dumb, and therefore it's going to take longer for the Sabres to win the Cup than it otherwise might if TP weren't so dumb.

 

I won't even begin to try and go back and read all of your posts on Regier, but, my God, how many times since '07 have you said you Darcy should be gone if... they miss the playoffs again, don't win a playoff round, don't do this or that... I'm pretty sure you said they'd have to make the playoffs (at least) for him to be retained after this season. And I think it was probaby something like get to the second round.

 

Anyway, while I'm in the abyss, you enjoy your time cast down with the Sodomites at Shawshank. You must enjoy taking it every which way from Darcy and Lindy, for life.

[nfreeman]

1) I put the call out for us miserable ones knowing full well the Candyland gang would want no part of hearing the grenade and pending carnage.

2) Yes, it was interesting...almost as if he was given the dog and pony show by the current administration, all of who have been kept on, minus Quinn. Why not blame the guy out the door....sort of like the Bills' previous 3 drafts were Jauron's doing, not Modrak.

3) I have been more positive than anyone about Pegula coming here. I knew what his pockets and history meant, and that the deal sounded golden. If you read what I say, they are many more positives with him here and I appreciate his transparency and passion. Given that many of the same people here defended everything the previous crew did, but are so eager to tell us how things will be so much better now....who's opinion should I take more seriously?

4) You are spot on, except instead of dumb I would use the word naive, or unseasoned. Given his fortune and business success...I was hoping for more intense direction where it matters right out of the box. Right now the only certains are Rene Robert, a new carpet, and 23 new scouts under the direction of head hockey man, Darcy Regier.

1. My point is that there was no "grenade and pending carnage," unless you feel that his defending and retaining DR leads inescapably to a finding of grenade and pending carnage. The 8 pages of posts made it sound like he was a doddering, incoherent fool.

 

2. While I'm sure you're right that there has been plenty of blaming the guys who have departed, there have also been plenty of reports over the years of various instances of cheapskate-ness and corner-cutting. I would expect that TP got plenty of details on those and similar items during his due diligence process. More importantly, I think there is plenty of truth in those reports.

 

3. and 4. I don't think anyone here has "defended everything the previous crew did." I and others have certainly defended DR based on a sense that his hands have been tied in many respects. I think, based on past performance, it's reasonable to think -- and it was reasonable of TP to think -- that DR can improve this team substantially given the level of support it looks like he's now going to get. This may turn out not to be the case, but many of the posters in this thread seem to think that for TP to give DR a shot automatically means that TP is naive/foolish/in over his head, etc.

 

I still stick by what I said for the most part. His lack of knowledge to his teams perception in the communtiy is disappointing. As he alluded to, it may have been a little soon for this type of questioning. I'm looking forward to his growth as a NHL team owner. OSP ran and hid from the spotlight once the tough got going, let's see what Pegs does when the heat gets turned up.

Just because he didn't fire DR doesn't mean he doesn't know what people are saying about the team. It just means that he sized everything up and concluded -- based on much more complete info than the rest of us have -- that DR deserves a shot. He wouldn't have made the statements he did about supporting the team if he weren't aware of the criticism.

 

I won't even begin to try and go back and read all of your posts on Regier, but, my God, how many times since '07 have you said you Darcy should be gone if... they miss the playoffs again, don't win a playoff round, don't do this or that... I'm pretty sure you said they'd have to make the playoffs (at least) for him to be retained after this season. And I think it was probaby something like get to the second round.

 

Anyway, while I'm in the abyss, you enjoy your time cast down with the Sodomites at Shawshank. You must enjoy taking it every which way from Darcy and Lindy, for life.

I've said that if they don't make it to the 2nd round this year, DR should be fired -- although I've also said that it's hard to formulate an opinion when we don't really know how tied (or untied) his hands have been. I've said that if last summer's failure to improve the team was DR's call, he should've been fired immediately. I've also said that it wouldn't be unreasonable for a new owner to bring in a new GM, but that I'd like to see DR get a shot.

 

It all comes down to incomplete information. There is plenty to suggest that many critical decisions since 2006 that have affected the on-ice product were not DR's calls. For example, it sounds like the decisions last summer to let Tallinder and Lydman go and not to pursue any significant FAs were made by TG and LQ. We don't know what the truth is. TP has much more data on this than we do, and he has a much better record of successfully operating companies than we do. He evaluated everything and made his decision. Based on his successful track record, his passion for the Sabres and his stated willingness to throw money at the team, I would think that most fans would give him the benefit of the doubt, even though it means at least another season of DR and LR.

 

Perhaps a few personnel moves will make everyone feel better.

[Weave]

 

Perhaps a few personnel moves will make everyone feel better.

 

I know this will make it easiier for me to formulate a solid opinion.

[Taro T]

He just left a lot of holes with his answers.

 

Ruff is my awesome coach.......the team quit

Darcy makes good decisions......I don't know the details behind July 1st because it is in the past and doesn't matter

This team needs positive re-enforcement.......If Tallinder and Lydman were here we'd have 10 more wins

 

But the crux of it is that he actually thinks $200,000 worth of sports journalists were able to make $55 million worth of hockey players quit. It was plain as day, and like PA said, if he is trying to show solidarity with his team....calling them quitters and implying Bucky and Sully are more powerful than the team is not the best way to do it.

 

I am not hitting the panic button. Like I said, 80% of this week is more positive than where we have been. It just looks like we have a longer wait before we can truly start rebuilding into a championship contender. We just have to let the guy learn. In reality, unless Darcy pulls off a blockbuster, this team rides the excitement for a few more games....miller is between the pipes for 47 of 49 games.....other teams that have been stone cold start playing back to their season average.....and the Sabres fade off into the sunset the last few weeks of the season while Miller ends up looking like something you'd hang on your door for Halloween.

Finally had a chance to relisten to the audio.

 

I think I'm sticking with my original take that I didn't hear anything too worrisome (nor anything that makes me think they're gonna win it all in '12).

 

The phrase 'part of the quit in this team is ...' didn't really stand out to me as him saying his team quit. He had just finished stating that his teenage daughter would quit if she were slammed constantly and was saying the Snooze should lay off his team. Had he not used the word 'quit' describing a potential reaction from his daughter, I doubt very much he'd have used it describing his team. He never used that word again describing his team, but he did come back to the 'stop picking on my kids' theme.

 

Was the chiding of the Snooze misguided? Probably. But again, I think his reason to do it was to show the team that he considers them to be like his family; and while the players might have had the 'omg, dad, stop, you're so embarrassing' thoughts, I'd guess they appreciate the sentiment.

 

I do not believe that he honestly believes that the Snooze has caused his players to quit. Again, though arguably misguided, the point of the lecture was to show the players he's got their backs.

 

As for the July 1 shrugging off: I don't see anything he gains by talking in detail about it. He took a few other veilled swipes at the prior ownership; talking about 7/1/7 in detail makes the swipes clearly out in the open.

 

Do you really see a dichotomy between: get off the players backs (hey, guys, I've got your backs) and the former management was shortsighted in not giving 2 players that were important pieces of last year's team LT deals (hey, guys, if you're good, we want you here LT)?

 

 

A couple of other things I took away from relistening. He didn't say that he's never fired an employee in 28 years, he stated that 'we never LOST an employee.' That I took 2 ways:

 

1st - to the players & staff: if you're good, we're going to keep you happy; and

 

2nd - another swipe at the past regime - they lost Briere, Tallinder, and Lydman per the interview.

 

Regarding the team's UFA's, 'that's an issue that I can't, I don't want to comment on ...' which sounds to me an awful lot like TC is out the door; and perhaps 1 or 2 others. All the media reports, and TP's initial press conference implied an urgency to get this thing completed prior to the trade deadline. The trade deadline is only imperitive if you've got a trade or 2 in mind. (If Timmy is still in B&G on Tuesday, then I probably temper my enthusiam some.)

 

I also caught 1 extra slam on the old regime; his sarcastically stating "wouldn't you love to have (Drury) on your team for $8MM." That's a slam on TG for letting the deal that Darcy had worked out in October '06 sit on his desk, and a slam at LQ for stating that the Sabres would match any offer he received.

 

As for your bolded statements, we're generally in agreement on that one.

 

 

I'm not reading as much into the Snooze bashing as some of you are. If it persists, then maybe I'll reconsider my opinion. Again, I think it was more of the rebranding the Sabres as a destination or 'hockey heaven' than anything. Is he going a little heavy on it? Yeah, but as so many here love to point out 'nobody in the league wants to come to Buffalo,' 'it's looked at like Edmonton in terms of desirability.' If the team had such a poor image within in the league, he probably has a lot of work ahead of him to change that image. (I don't think the Sabres were viewed as negatively as some here think; but it definitely wasn't considered Detroit.) People also wanted him to 'hit the ground running.' Well, that's the theme he's been working non-stop; that and 'winning isn't a goal, it's a belief.' Do platitudes get it done? Not without a lot of hard work. I haven't seen anything to make me believe the hard work won't get done.

 

While the exact words haven't been right all the way through (if they had we'd be having some other discussion), the themes have been IMHO.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Taro....I don't think the News bashed him. That's our problem right there. There are those that want to defend every aspect of this team and will read into it what they want from what they get from Pegula....then there are those of us who understand what the role of the media is, and were quite befuddled by the naivity of a billion dollar buisness owner who couldn't quite grasp that concept in the interview. The news didn't bash him. In fact, they asked fairly softball questions, were shocked at some of Pegula's response, and tried to talk him off the ledge in a nice way before he continued to expose his lack of understanding.

 

I think the News in general has been way too soft on players and especially previous ownership. Either they didn't want to or didn't know how to ask the right questions, or expose them for what they were. Bucky was on a one man mission from '07-09....and only recently did other outlets feel safe enough to get truly critical once the writing was on the wall this was an inept and dishonest organization.

 

Pegula has made some strong statements so far at showing us the culture is going to change around the arena, and I think that's awesome. It just seems as if the actual on ice philosophy will not change much in the coming years. I was all for a soft transition of power, riding out the rest of the season....but we have Pegula telling us Darcy ain't going nowhere and he hasn't fired anyone in 28 years of being a boss. That may make him a nice person.....but it doesn't make him an efficient custodian of our hockey team if his stated goal is to win the Stanley Cup.

 

I'm not paniced. I just feel as if I was driving a 1998 Toyota Corolla, and Oprah came to town handing me the keys to a new Caddy Deville. It's loaded....power everything, leather, heated seats, gps. One thing though......Oprah just told me that she was going to transfer the engine from that '98 Corolla into the Caddy because she thinks it will operate more powerful in such a beautiful car.

[Taro T]

Taro....I don't think the News bashed him. That's our problem right there. There are those that want to defend every aspect of this team and will read into it what they want from what they get from Pegula....then there are those of us who understand what the role of the media is, and were quite befuddled by the naivity of a billion dollar buisness owner who couldn't quite grasp that concept in the interview. The news didn't bash him. In fact, they asked fairly softball questions, were shocked at some of Pegula's response, and tried to talk him off the ledge in a nice way before he continued to expose his lack of understanding.

 

I think the News in general has been way too soft on players and especially previous ownership. Either they didn't want to or didn't know how to ask the right questions, or expose them for what they were. Bucky was on a one man mission from '07-09....and only recently did other outlets feel safe enough to get truly critical once the writing was on the wall this was an inept and dishonest organization.

 

Pegula has made some strong statements so far at showing us the culture is going to change around the arena, and I think that's awesome. It just seems as if the actual on ice philosophy will not change much in the coming years. I was all for a soft transition of power, riding out the rest of the season....but we have Pegula telling us Darcy ain't going nowhere and he hasn't fired anyone in 28 years of being a boss. That may make him a nice person.....but it doesn't make him an efficient custodian of our hockey team if his stated goal is to win the Stanley Cup.

 

I'm not paniced. I just feel as if I was driving a 1998 Toyota Corolla, and Oprah came to town handing me the keys to a new Caddy Deville. It's loaded....power everything, leather, heated seats, gps. One thing though......Oprah just told me that she was going to transfer the engine from that '98 Corolla into the Caddy because she thinks it will operate more powerful in such a beautiful car.

We're in agreement on that. HE bashed the Snooze. Not the other way around.

 

And again, he didn't say he didn't FIRE anyone in 28 years. He said he didn't LOSE anyone. Big difference. You don't make $3B+ by never firing anyone.

 

He's already 'fired' one Sabre. They've done everything but flat out release Rivet to get him out of here. (They're doing it for his benefit, but they are still trying to politely show him the door.)

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

We're in agreement on that. HE bashed the Snooze. Not the other way around.

 

And again, he didn't say he didn't FIRE anyone in 28 years. He said he didn't LOSE anyone. Big difference. You don't make $3B+ by never firing anyone.

 

He's already 'fired' one Sabre. They've done everything but flat out release Rivet to get him out of here. (They're doing it for his benefit, but they are still trying to politely show him the door.)

 

Sorry....must need coffee....I misread your post like it was Jody Foster in a miniskirt next to a pinball machine.

[Stoner]

 

I also caught 1 extra slam on the old regime; his sarcastically stating "wouldn't you love to have (Drury) on your team for $8MM." That's a slam on TG for letting the deal that Darcy had worked out in October '06 sit on his desk, and a slam at LQ for stating that the Sabres would match any offer he received.

I see why you say that, but I took it as Pegula saying the Sabres were fortunate they didn't get Drury re-signed, period, given his disappointing career in New York.

[Taro T]

Sorry....must need coffee....I misread your post like it was Jody Foster in a miniskirt next to a pinball machine.

:w00t: :thumbsup:

[Stoner]

Ghost, I agree the News was pretty soft on Pegula. There was a question from a woman about Terry's involvement in politics in PA and whether he would be involved in NY. Terry said he wasn't really involved in politics in PA, he just contributed money like anyone else would. Well, he and his wife gave enormous amounts of money to candidates, Kim, I believe, was the biggest contributor to eventual Gov. Corbett's campaign. They weren't just like everyday folks who threw in a 20. The questioner replied with "OK, fair enough."

 

I still think a very small part of buying the Sabres has something to do with influencing the political/regulatory environment in NY for fracking. Another lost story in all the whirlwind was Pegula saying he was "back" in the oil and gas business.

 

And Taro, I think it was Jerry who gave Pegula a chance to back off the ledge when he asked if he really believed the News' coverage contributed to the team's struggles. IIRC, Pegula did not back off. So I do think Terry really believes that.

[Taro T]

...

 

And Taro, I think it was Jerry who gave Pegula a chance to back off the ledge when he asked if he really believed the News' coverage contributed to the team's struggles. IIRC, Pegula did not back off. So I do think Terry really believes that.

'Contributed to the team's struggles' is a long way from 'caused the team to quit.' I do not believe he thinks the News caused them to quit, nor do I believe he thinks they were the primary impediment to success on the ice.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

'Contributed to the team's struggles' is a long way from 'caused the team to quit.' I do not believe he thinks the News caused them to quit, nor do I believe he thinks they were the primary impediment to success on the ice.

 

"Part of the quit on this team is coming from this room."

 

 

I am upset you made me listen to the first 12 minutes of that carnage again to find the quote.

 

I missed a few other gems like, "We were in control of that Boston series until Vanek went down."

 

And the brief clip that should be saved is Pegula laughing off questions about Regier, going, "It's not as bad as everybody thinks."

[Stoner]

"Part of the quit on this team is coming from this room."

 

 

I am upset you made me listen to the first 12 minutes of that carnage again to find the quote.

 

I missed a few other gems like, "We were in control of that Boston series until Vanek went down."

 

And the brief clip that should be saved is Pegula laughing off questions about Regier, going, "It's not as bad as everybody thinks."

 

Other gems: Innoncently asking, "What seems to be the issue with Darcy?"

 

He also said the Sabres were a "lock" for the playoffs before Miller got hurt in early 2009. They were very much on the cusp.

[Stoner]

'Contributed to the team's struggles' is a long way from 'caused the team to quit.' I do not believe he thinks the News caused them to quit, nor do I believe he thinks they were the primary impediment to success on the ice.

 

That's how Jerry paraphrased Terry's point. Maybe Jerry was too embarrassed for Terry to repeat it word for word.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Other gems: Innoncently asking, "What seems to be the issue with Darcy?"

 

He also said the Sabres were a "lock" for the playoffs before Miller got hurt in early 2009. They were very much on the cusp.

 

Which Bucky then chimed in, "Isn't that the year Brodeur missed most of the season but Jersey finished in 1st place?"....to which Pegula responded with an, "um huhm" like an Italian mother would react as her son brings a black girl into the house for the first time.

 

I like the fact Pegula is here, but I am afraid this is going to turn into a race of time. The time it takes for Pegula to figure out Darcy isn't the Bobby Orr of GM's versus the time it takes for the fanbase to lose their patience if the team fizzles out this year and starts next year the same way. If Pegula sees the heat as non-appreciative fans instead of the fact that the critics had it right in the first place, I'm afraid of him taking his ball and going home. He doesn't seem like that type, but his seeming misunderstanding of some of the dynamics in play here open the door to more questions about him.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Ok.....the video of the meeting is up. I will say that Pegula is in control. While some of his answers may not please me, he came across as a solid guy. He's pretty monotone, so the audio itself was much more depressing. He wasn't in there scrambling.

 

I will call off the dogs until Darcy trades for a floating 22 year old center and a european defenseman on his 3rd team.

[Stoner]

A bit of a delayed reaction here.

 

Did Pegula really tell the News he didn't care about the events of July 1, 2007 and hasn't asked anyone in the organization about those events? And "let it go Buffalo"?

 

First of all, when evaluating Darcy, the central question of his tenure is, "Did he screw up in his handling of Drury and Briere?" How can that be ignored when trying to decide whether to retain the guy?

 

Secondly, if anyone on this board was in Terry's shoes, the first thing they'd want to do is find out what really happened behind the scenes. People think they know, but they don't. It's like becoming president and not finding out if alien bodies are storied in Area 51 and if the CIA really killed Kennedy.

 

I ask again, dreadfully, what kind of fan is he?

[deluca67]

A bit of a delayed reaction here.

 

Did Pegula really tell the News he didn't care about the events of July 1, 2007 and hasn't asked anyone in the organization about those events? And "let it go Buffalo"?

 

First of all, when evaluating Darcy, the central question of his tenure is, "Did he screw up in his handling of Drury and Briere?" How can that be ignored when trying to decide whether to retain the guy?

 

Secondly, if anyone on this board was in Terry's shoes, the first thing they'd want to do is find out what really happened behind the scenes. People think they know, but they don't. It's like becoming president and not finding out if alien bodies are storied in Area 51 and if the CIA really killed Kennedy.

I ask again, dreadfully, what kind of fan is he?

Is he actually a "fan" at all? This is a guy who made billions in a very unpopular way. He is far more media savvy than he has let on. Even a more casual fan has an opinion on Drury and Briere. A fan wouldn't be surprised by the criticism of Regier. You don't need to be Jewish to know something just isn't Kosher with all of this.

[Stoner]

Is he actually a "fan" at all? This is a guy who made billions in a very unpopular way. He is far more media savvy than he has let on. Even a more casual fan has an opinion on Drury and Briere. A fan wouldn't be surprised by the criticism of Regier. You don't need to be Jewish to know something just isn't Kosher with all of this.

 

Unless these guys are sociopaths of some kind, he was a fan at some point. I really suspect he bailed out around the time he moved down south and the business really took off. No shame in that. Just be honest.

[deluca67]

Unless these guys are sociopaths of some kind, he was a fan at some point. I really suspect he bailed out around the time he moved down south and the business really took off. No shame in that. Just be honest.

I should have said "fan" at the level that has been portrayed lately.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I liked PA, but when you throw out 11,000 posts you're gonna hit it right at least once. a la Eck

 

 

This one makes a fun review as well. Maybe you can give PA credit for 2 or 3 when it's all said and done.

[spndnchz]

This one makes a fun review as well. Maybe you can give PA credit for 2 or 3 when it's all said and done.

 

maybe u can read all the private conversation I had with PA before u judge.

[shrader]

This one makes a fun review as well. Maybe you can give PA credit for 2 or 3 when it's all said and done.

 

I think this may be the answer to my question about when this board fell apart. If I'm remembering correctly, this was right around when people started throwing around those ridiculously stupid "team storm cloud" and whatever the opposite side was (and I hate that I'm even typing that stupid name). Right then and there this board became a bunch of annoying cliques. It was like high school all over again.