LabattBlue Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 Looking at his numbers this year and thinking back to his play over the last 6-7 years, was last year the exception and this year Miller has returned to his "normal" level of play? http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=45065 I'm not saying he needs to be traded ASAP(especially when looking at the other holes on the team), but in light of his most recent hissy fit and poor play for much of this season, I just don't know if he has what it takes to win a Cup. He has 3 more years left on his contract after this season, but unless 11-12 and 12-13 are much closer in level of play to 09-10 than 10-11, Pegula better be careful when getting out the checkbook.
thesportsbuff Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 Clearly last year was the exception. He may be above average but I doubt if he ever plays at the level he played last year again. At least not for a full season + playoff run.
Stoner Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 Looking at his numbers this year and thinking back to his play over the last 6-7 years, was last year the exception and this year Miller has returned to his "normal" level of play? http://hockeydb.com/...y.php?pid=45065 I'm not saying he needs to be traded ASAP(especially when looking at the other holes on the team), but in light of his most recent hissy fit and poor play for much of this season, I just don't know if he has what it takes to win a Cup. He has 3 more years left on his contract after this season, but unless 11-12 and 12-13 are much closer in level of play to 09-10 than 10-11, Pegula better be careful when getting out the checkbook. I would go so far as to say only the first half of last season was the exception. It's not the complicated. Ryan's a good goalie. The franchise will survive without him. I would love to know what the return could be.
darksabre Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 All I can think about when we talk about Miller is Tim Thomas. The man played the worst season of his career last year and spent most of it on the bench. He gets surgery, changes his workouts, and all of a sudden he is the best goalie in the league. That kind of turnaround is possible for a goaltender, and there's no reason to think Miller can't come back next season and have another tremendous year. I just don't see the reason to throw the towel on him yet.
Stoner Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 All I can think about when we talk about Miller is Tim Thomas. The man played the worst season of his career last year and spent most of it on the bench. He gets surgery, changes his workouts, and all of a sudden he is the best goalie in the league. That kind of turnaround is possible for a goaltender, and there's no reason to think Miller can't come back next season and have another tremendous year. I just don't see the reason to throw the towel on him yet. Except Thomas was tremendous in 08-09 as well. His aberration is a bad season.
shrader Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 Except Thomas was tremendous in 08-09 as well. His aberration is a bad season. What about the first 30+ years of his life?
Stoner Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 What about the first 30+ years of his life? Attica. Give him a break.
sundevil14= Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 miller would be way better when lindy doesn't play him every game. just wait it out and see how he does when enroth is in.
nobody Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 If the Sabres could make a really good trade for Miller - I would hope they would do it.
BeachedNLA Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 Attica. Give him a break. ?? So why isn't Miller thus not doing a similar thing? Having a similar off-year? Miller's career statistics look far better than Thomas'.
Eleven Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 ?? So why isn't Miller thus not doing a similar thing? Having a similar off-year? Miller's career statistics look far better than Thomas'. They'll eat you alive before you get to post 60 if you don't get the basic concept that other teams' players can have off years while the Sabres' players obviously suck.
Stoner Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 ?? So why isn't Miller thus not doing a similar thing? Having a similar off-year? Miller's career statistics look far better than Thomas'. Thomas' career GAA in the regular season and playoffs are both better than Miller's. There's kind of a default position that a lot of Sabres fans have about Miller, and that position is that Miller is elite. You'd think his career has been better than Thomas'. Someone just called WGR and suggested trading Miller to Tampa for Vinny. At first, it seems plausible. Tampa needs a goalie. But both Mike and Chris made a good argument that Miller is not an upgrade over Dwayne Roloson. (Yes, Miller's contract played into it.)
rickshaw Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 Historically two 3 million dollar goalies wins Cups more than one $6 million goalie. I'd move him if two quality position players or 1 position and 1 goalie could be found for the $6 million.
SabresFan526 Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 Thomas' career GAA in the regular season and playoffs are both better than Miller's. There's kind of a default position that a lot of Sabres fans have about Miller, and that position is that Miller is elite. You'd think his career has been better than Thomas'. Someone just called WGR and suggested trading Miller to Tampa for Vinny. At first, it seems plausible. Tampa needs a goalie. But both Mike and Chris made a good argument that Miller is not an upgrade over Dwayne Roloson. (Yes, Miller's contract played into it.) Is that before his stint in the ECHL, Sweden, etc. or after? Thomas's first true season as a starting goaltender in the NHL was in 2006-2007 when he started 66 games with a 3.13 GAA and a .905 save percentage when he was the raw young age of 32 and after playing 10 seasons of professional hockey. It's silly to compare Miller and Thomas considering Thomas is 6 years older than Miller and has basically been in the NHL since about the same time Miller entered, which was the 2005-2006 season. If we look at it from career progress, Miller became a starting goaltender in the NHL when he was 25. Thomas became a starter at the age of 32. So, who's better? As for the question at hand, it's pretty clear that Miller is not having a good year this year. If you do some actual analysis on Miller's stats, you will see that he has improved statistically in terms of GAA and Save Percentage every single year coming into this year. This year is a bad year. I have no reason to believe he will not find his form next year and be a top 10 goalie in the NHL. I think Miller's a very good goalie and a top 10 goalie in the NHL. I do not think he is a perennial Vezina trophy winning guy, but he could certainly have a few years where he's elite, but he's no Hasek, that's for sure. But, I think he's the type of goalie you can certainly build your team around and be successful with. Having said that, nobody on this team is untouchable, and that includes Ryan Miller. If the right deal comes along, you have to investigate it.
Eleven Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 Historically two 3 million dollar goalies wins Cups more than one $6 million goalie. I'd move him if two quality position players or 1 position and 1 goalie could be found for the $6 million. It had better be one of each, because otherwise, the Sabres are without a starting-caliber goalie. And if it's one of each, that goalie had better be dependable and that skater had better be a legit first-line center with some gas left in the tank, if the Sabres are giving up an All-Star Vezina winner with an Olympic silver medal. I'm not saying the Sabres shouldn't ever make a deal, but if they do, they need to get a real return.
Sabre Dance Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 Looking at his numbers this year and thinking back to his play over the last 6-7 years, was last year the exception and this year Miller has returned to his "normal" level of play? http://hockeydb.com/...y.php?pid=45065 I'm not saying he needs to be traded ASAP(especially when looking at the other holes on the team), but in light of his most recent hissy fit and poor play for much of this season, I just don't know if he has what it takes to win a Cup. He has 3 more years left on his contract after this season, but unless 11-12 and 12-13 are much closer in level of play to 09-10 than 10-11, Pegula better be careful when getting out the checkbook. So, trade him to Detroit so he can be on the same team as his brother (and back in his home state) and watch him carry the Wings to a Cup. Then we start from scratch with Enroth (whose GAA is higher than Miller's....in the AHL) Yippee. Except Thomas was tremendous in 08-09 as well. His aberration is a bad season. And if Miller had Chara playing in front of him, he'd probably be tremendous, too. Don't forget, it was Miller in the nets in the EC Finals against the Hurricanes.
LabattBlue Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Posted February 15, 2011 If you do some actual analysis on Miller's stats, you will see that he has improved statistically in terms of GAA and Save Percentage every single year coming into this year. If you looked at the link I included when starting this thread, you would see that what you are stating is not true. His GAA went up from his 1st full year(05-06) to 2nd year, and his save% has been up and down throughout his years as a Sabre. ;)
LabattBlue Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Posted February 15, 2011 So, trade him to Detroit so he can be on the same team as his brother (and back in his home state) and watch him carry the Wings to a Cup. Then we start from scratch with Enroth (whose GAA is higher than Miller's....in the AHL) Yippee. And if Miller had Chara playing in front of him, he'd probably be tremendous, too. Don't forget, it was Miller in the nets in the EC Finals against the Hurricanes. Reading comprehension issues? Where did I say he should be traded?
BeachedNLA Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 Thomas' career GAA in the regular season and playoffs are both better than Miller's. There's kind of a default position that a lot of Sabres fans have about Miller, and that position is that Miller is elite. You'd think his career has been better than Thomas'. Someone just called WGR and suggested trading Miller to Tampa for Vinny. At first, it seems plausible. Tampa needs a goalie. But both Mike and Chris made a good argument that Miller is not an upgrade over Dwayne Roloson. (Yes, Miller's contract played into it.) 1.) Thomas was a journeyman who didn't even qualify to play in the NHL until recent years (I assume that's what you mean by "in Attica"). Looking at Thomas' Wikipedia page, it looks like he benefited from A.) Other's injuries, and B.) Finding Yoga / stretching program, to get where he's gotten himself in the past 3 years (And one of those, he was injured). Granted, Thomas' first 2 or so years (of semi-full-time NHL play), his win totals didn't benefit from the offense Miller got to play behind. 2.) You are quoting the two guys from GR as some type of experts on the subject???? They are glorified Radio shock-jock types. I asked about the one guy in one of my first threads posted here, because I was totally unimpressed with how he liked to hear himself talk on the Sabres post-game show. You want to believe the garbage they're spooning, that's your choice... Miller has been good / borderline great goaltender throughout his career for the swords. We're sitting here in a fan message-board, immediately after the worst game of Miller's season / past few seasons, so I guess it makes sense that he comes under attack (and no one on the present team should be above consideration as indispensable..., although I'd be willing to wager that Miller is on Pegula's short "don't trade" list until he takes control). It will be interesting to see how Enroth does IN Montreal (tonight). It would be huge to see him step-up, but until they can get a viable person, I think it's silly-talk to even THINK about replacing Miller (I think Miller is the quiet type.., and we may find when all is said and done this season, maybe he has played the season with a lingering injury, or something...). It also is kind of funny (I've been on a few Message Boards for the Sabres since these things came into vogue), how fans seem, for some reason or other, to want to throw Miller out with the bath-water... Before he had his career year last season, there was always a faction, and now that he's in midst of something less than last season, that talk is back. Were the Sabres to let Miller go to say, his home-town Red Wings, I think you'd see similar results as with Tom Barasso in Pittsburgh, and Hasek in Detroit... Miller hoisting a cup before the boys in Blue & Gold could come up with an adequate replacement.
Stoner Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 A.) Thomas was a journeyman who didn't even qualify to play in the NHL until recent years (I assume that's what you mean by "in Attica"). Looking at Thomas' Wikipedia page, it looks like he benefited from A.) Other's injuries, and B.) Finding Yoga / stretching program, to get where he's gotten himself in the past 3 years (And one of those, he was injured). Granted, Thomas' first 2 or so years (of semi-fill-time NHL play), his win totals didn't benefit from the offense Miller got to play behind. B.) You are quoting the two guys from GR as some type of experts on he subject???? They are glorified Radio shock-jock types. I asked about the one guy in one of my first threads posted here, because I was totally unimpressed with how he liked to hear himself talk on the Sabres post-game show. You want to believe the garbage they're spooning, that's your choice... Miller has been good / borderline great goaltender throughout his career for the swords. We're sitting here in a fan message-board, immediately after the worst game of Miller's season / past few seasons, so I guess it makes sense that he comes under attack (and no one on the present team should be above consideration as indispensable..., although I'd be willing to wager that Miller is on Pegula's short "don't trade" list until he takes control). It will be interesting to see how Enroth does IN Montreal (tonight). It would be huge to see him step-up, but until they can get a viable person, I think it's silly-talk to even THINK about replacing Miller (I think Miller is the quiet type.., and we may find when all is said and done this season, maybe he has played the season with a lingering injury, or something...). It also is kind of funny (I've been on a few Message Boards for the Sabres since these things came into vogue), how fans seem, for some reason or other, to want to throw Miller out with the bath-water... Before he had his career year last season, there was always a faction, and now that he's in midst of something less than last season, that talk is back. Were the Sabres to let Miller go to say, his home-town Red Wings, I think you'd see similar results as with Tom Barasso in Pittsburgh, and Hasek in Detroit... Miller hoisting a cup before the boys in Blue & Gold could come up with an adequate replacement. He has not been borderline great throughout his career. I officially give up.
BeachedNLA Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 He has not been borderline great throughout his career. I officially give up. Lol ... No you don't since you continually post this sort of thing. It's a message-board. We agree to disagree (think it's in the by-laws of Message-Boarding or something... B-) ).
X. Benedict Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 He has not been borderline great throughout his career. I officially give up. you were talking save percentage. All time save percentage leader: #1 Dominic Hasek #8 Ryan Miller Where is the borderline on such things?
Weave Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 Statistaclly it is a no-brainer that last season was an exception. His career GAA and SV% show that quite dramatically. Anyone who thinks he's been improving (statistically anyway) steadily up until last season didn't look at the stat columns very closely. That doesn't mean that he isn't capable of being the #1 goalie on a Stanley Cup team. I think last season proved that quite beyond doubt. But it also doesn't mean that he's a shoo-in MVP for a playoff team either. IMO he's not quite elite level. He's damned close. Close enough to occassionally have elite-type seasons. But I don't think we'll see them year in and year out. More likely he'll have a few of those kind of years interspersed among seasons closer to his average. He's certainly good enough to be mentioned in the top 5 most years. As for the, "are we better off with him than without him" line of thought.... I am rather certain he's is on Pegs short list of who is staying. But I think it would be foolish to completely dismiss the idea of moving him. It would take a true #1 center and a true #1 goalie to make it worth doing. I don't see any teams in a situation where that sort of deal makes sense for them. But if a team did approach Buffalo with a trade like that I think it would bear serious consideration. I'll say this, from a fan standpoint I think dealing a goalie like Miller for a dynamic #1 center and a starting goalie makes sense. 2-1 hockey games don't draw crowds like 6-4 hockey games do. And I bet the crowd is a damned bit livelier in that 6-4 game too. And yeah, this assumes both of those games end up with the good guys on the winning end. Losing teams play in front of empty seats. I'm pretty sure Miller is way down the list of why Buffalo won't win the Cup this year. There are bigger fish to fry on this team so I am rather suprised by all the attention he is getting right now. He's not a savior. But he's not lousy either. He is having a lousy season. It happens to the best of 'em.
Stoner Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 you were talking save percentage. All time save percentage leader: #1 Dominic Hasek #8 Ryan Miller Where is the borderline on such things? Yup, and there are only six active goalies ahead of him on that list.
Hephaestus Posted February 15, 2011 Report Posted February 15, 2011 This is normal in goalies. We've just been spoiled in Buffalo with Hasek and now Miller.
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