Vogl: cowardly and overrated

[DFITZ1]

I agree with you regarding the media.

 

This topic was not started as a result of preceived bad play in last nights game.

 

Players blameworthy?, yes; however, would you hang Ryan Miller's poor stats completly on the team?

 

"31st in the league in goals-against average at 2.78"

 

Has there been a trend of poor play over the course of the season?

 

Remember this is a forum, no one is out to hang Ryan; no one is saying the sky is falling.

 

As a topic of conversation he seems distracted e.g. commercials, publicity, fiance, etc. I'm sure it takes time to adjust to all of that.

 

Ryan Miller has proven he is a competetor;I'm sure he will work his way out of it.

 

Yes, I do think Miller's stats are a result of the team. Also, if Millers GAA is so bad, why hasn't he been replaced? Likely because the stat doesn't tell the story. IMO, he has been called upon to make more clutch saves than last year (more odd man rushes, breakaways, for instance). Teams know to screen and deflect shots as much as possible, yet, our D rarely covers the points. Also, I've been reading threads all season panning Miller's play as if he owes the team a shut out every night. Yet, the Sabres are one of the teams that the opposition often plays their #2 goalie because our shooting is so bad. Millers GAA stats don't bother me as much as our goal scoring capability. Yeah, we had some big games lately, but this year that's been an exception, not a rule.

[kishoph]

Miller will be fine.

My god, so much media hype over much a-do about nothing.

So the guy had a bad game, Sully and other media types that hype it up need to go sit in the corner.

 

So tired of the Buffalo Media for our sports teams, they should stick to reporting and stop these opinion/editorial pieces. :thumbdown:

 

He's had more than "a bad game", I believe that he is 30th in GAA. and 26th in save %. Why does everyone insist on coddling him. He's starting to remind me of TRENT, where in everything has to be perfect for him to have a good game, the defense has to play great, the offense has to play great, both without any breakdowns, then comes, never being accountable for any bad games, he's quick to throw teammates under the bus and unwilling to shoulder any blame. A good goalie allows a team to play loose and take the odd chance, not worrying about every odd man rush that comes down the ice, he needs to come out on top more than not. If the Sabres want to get trade value out of someone, while there is still some value, trade MILLER, his best has past, time for the ENROTH era. :ph34r:

[deluca67]

There's a really interesting sideplot to the postgame flap that nobody wants to touch — Miller is obviously upset about giving up so many goals and has been in something of a funk all season, but the more interesting thing is Vogl's cowering, despite having the most access (and what should be the greatest connection) to the team. The flap between he and the Twitter folks was fun, but can we finally stop heaping praises on a guy who hasn't formed good connections within the team he covers on a daily basis or the community which he covers them for?

Vogl is very, very average, certainly no Tim Graham, and doesn't hold a candle to many of the league's other beat writers. He backed his way into the position because the News' stable of writers ready to pounce on a major league beat at the time of Graham's departure included Amy Moritz, Keith McShea, Budd Bailey and Fletcher something-or-other. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

So Vogl wanted to ask how Miller felt. Do so. Don't cower when he responds and get snippy with the answer. "Hey Ryan, looked like you were just off. Any physical things bothering you?" Not ... "ummm ... I was ummm ... well, I just thought that ... umm ... sometimes it's hard for me to get my pen working and ummm ..."

Ask the question, big boy. You've got the pulpit everyone else has asked for. Step up, with a little authority, and ask.

It's obvious there's little respect for Vogl, who even started trashtalking with his own cohorts by writing the whole Twitter/feces thing. I work as a salesman for a product that's in need of modernization. Should I improve my skills and become better equipped to help customers, or should I put down the people who don't want my product? That will get them to take me more seriously.

I'm not trying to defend Ryan Miller. He gets upset when he loses. But do you think Bill Belichick would smile and answer Vogl's mamby-pamby questions with a robust "thanks for asking!" Not in a million years.

If your name was Eyeonmedia I would think you were Ryan Miller.

 

Yesterday was the worst game of Miller's career. He has in the past had no problem tossing his teammates under the buss and calling them "fragile little children." It appears that Miller is the most "fragile little child" of them all. Miller should have stood up in front of the media and simply told the truth. He sucked, he cost the team a point in a tight playoff race and he is nowhere near the level of goalie he was only a year ago. Taking it out on the media is bush league and another example of the lack of leadership throughout this roster including the $6 million goalie.

 

I think it time for fans to realize that Miller is no Hasek. It was foolish to build a team around him expecting him to carry the load like Hasek did. He's just to "fragile" physically and mentally.

[DFITZ1]

He's had more than "a bad game", I believe that he is 30th in GAA. and 26th in save %. Why does everyone insist on coddling him. He's starting to remind me of TRENT, where in everything has to be perfect for him to have a good game, the defense has to play great, the offense has to play great, both without any breakdowns, then comes, never being accountable for any bad games, he's quick to throw teammates under the bus and unwilling to shoulder any blame. A good goalie allows a team to play loose and take the odd chance, not worrying about every odd man rush that comes down the ice, he needs to come out on top more than not. If the Sabres want to get trade value out of someone, while there is still some value, trade MILLER, his best has past, time for the ENROTH era. :ph34r:

Who are you watching??? Trading Miller will end this teams chances of making the playoffs. He has made MORE than his share of clutch saves on odd man rushes and bonehead giveaways (see Connelley)and has won several games where the Sabres offense has whiffed. There is a reason why opposing teams more often than others start #2 goalies against the Sabres, it is because our offense CANNOT SCORE. That is this team's year long problem, not goaltending. Our shots are weak, at poor angles (see Hecht), too much passing, and they leave a ton of rebound opportunities untouched. Miller's stats do not tell the story. If Miller was bad, he would've been replaced by now. There is a reason why Lalime isn't playing, he cannot win a game for the Sabres. He needs the offense to win it for him. Enroth isn't much better.

[BeachedNLA]

He's had more than "a bad game", I believe that he is 30th in GAA. and 26th in save %. Why does everyone insist on coddling him. He's starting to remind me of TRENT, where in everything has to be perfect for him to have a good game, the defense has to play great, the offense has to play great, both without any breakdowns, then comes, never being accountable for any bad games, he's quick to throw teammates under the bus and unwilling to shoulder any blame. A good goalie allows a team to play loose and take the odd chance, not worrying about every odd man rush that comes down the ice, he needs to come out on top more than not. If the Sabres want to get trade value out of someone, while there is still some value, trade MILLER, his best has past, time for the ENROTH era. :ph34r:

 

 

Ummm... WHERE has he NOT shouldered blame when he's had a bad game (he TOOK the blame yesterday, but didn't want to harp on it, probably BECAUSE he didn't want to throw others under the bus...). I think Ryan Miller is highly respected by his teammates (and opponents, as one of the toughest goalies to play against in the league...). Miller has been a clutch goalie for us, for years. What has Enroth done to date (other than he's a better hope than Lalime, which is WHERE the true blame should go..., we do not have a credible backup on our everyday roster). We need Enroth (or whomever) to become a credible backup, and maybe then we can play Miller two out of every three, or something along the lines of how most other 'tenders are played in the league.

 

I suspect that Miller comes back with a strong game against Montreal. We escaped with a point (The only point we didn't win in past 4 games, all of which were goaltended by Miller, btw...).

 

Go BUFFALO Sabres!!

[X. Benedict]

 

 

I think it time for fans to realize that Miller is no Hasek. It was foolish to build a team around him expecting him to carry the load like Hasek did. He's just to "fragile" physically and mentally.

 

Butler, Weber, Sekera, Myers --- -- -what are we talking here, 200 games of NHL experience total?

 

Leopold and Morrison the journeyman vets.

 

That's not a shut down D in front of him.

 

They can compete for sure, it just isn't a shut-down D. And it is going to show in the numbers.

 

If anything I think Myers development trajectory (not Miller's aptitude) was optimistic.

 

Lydman and Tallinder were always underrated here, in my mind.

[BeachedNLA]

If your name was Eyeonmedia I would think you were Ryan Miller.

 

Yesterday was the worst game of Miller's career. He has in the past had no problem tossing his teammates under the buss and calling them "fragile little children." It appears that Miller is the most "fragile little child" of them all. Miller should have stood up in front of the media and simply told the truth. He sucked, he cost the team a point in a tight playoff race and he is nowhere near the level of goalie he was only a year ago. Taking it out on the media is bush league and another example of the lack of leadership throughout this roster including the $6 million goalie.

 

I think it time for fans to realize that Miller is no Hasek. It was foolish to build a team around him expecting him to carry the load like Hasek did. He's just to "fragile" physically and mentally.

 

This quote is A-1 out of context.

 

I'm not a player, so I won't speak FOR them, but I'd suspect that if you asked his teammates, Ryan Miller would be one of the most highly regarded players (if not THE most highly regarded) inside the Sabres locker room. The team has stepped up their game lately, and they're on a good run. Yes, Ryan Miller had a bad game, and normally he'd own up to that. Whatever happened yesterday, it's one bad game / anomaly. Leave it be...

 

GO BUFFALO SABRES!!

[BeachedNLA]

 

Lydman and Tallinder were always underrated here, in my mind.

 

 

Totally agree there... (you'd have to be blind NOT to...).

 

I think that's one thing that has come to the fore here, and IMO probably accounted for a big part of the horrible start to the season (with T. Myer's problems highlighted).

[Stoner]

Sabres have cut shots on goal against from last season by one shot per game. Scoring chances would be a more telling stat. But based on the best available evidence, defensive play is not responsible for Miller's collapse.

[DFITZ1]

Sabres have cut shots on goal against from last season by one shot per game. Scoring chances would be a more telling stat. But based on the best available evidence, defensive play is not responsible for Miller's collapse.

Miller...Collapse? I wish more players would "collapse" like him. The reason the forward play hasn't collapsed as much is because it couldn't fall any further. The problem this season is scoring goals, not being scored upon.

 

Back to the OP, I can't believe so much attention was directed at Millers play on Sunday, when Hecht and Grier have gotten hall passes for major screw ups (i.e. putting your team on a > 1 minute 5 on 3 penalty kill is a clutch mistake). I still say Miller would've been right to kick Hecht in the rear right front of the crowd for taking that penalty.

[Stoner]

Miller...Collapse? I wish more players would "collapse" like him. The reason the forward play hasn't collapsed as much is because it couldn't fall any further. The problem this season is scoring goals, not being scored upon.

 

Back to the OP, I can't believe so much attention was directed at Millers play on Sunday, when Hecht and Grier have gotten hall passes for major screw ups (i.e. putting your team on a > 1 minute 5 on 3 penalty kill is a clutch mistake). I still say Miller would've been right to kick Hecht in the rear right front of the crowd for taking that penalty.

 

Yeah, seven goals against. Why would anyone look at the goaltending?

 

Amazing.

[Weave]

Miller...Collapse? I wish more players would "collapse" like him. The reason the forward play hasn't collapsed as much is because it couldn't fall any further. The problem this season is scoring goals, not being scored upon.

 

A couple folks have mentioned something along these lines now. And the more I look at season stats the more cloudy things become. It isn't very clear whether offence or defence is the real (or the whole) issue.

 

Last year Buffalo was 11th in goals for and 4th in goals against. This year Buffalo is 13th in goals for and 13th in goals against (if you use GAA instead they are 21st). They are 0.25 goals per game behind last years' pace offensively but right on pace for the same number of total goals against. Yet their league ranking for GA is much lower than last season and GF is only a little lower.

 

I'm inclinded to say that offense has dipped a little since last season *AND* so has defence/goaltending. And I think a comparison of last years stats to this years bears this out.

[DFITZ1]

Yeah, seven goals against. Why would anyone look at the goaltending?

 

Amazing.

 

Look at the whole game!!!! Are you saying that the Hecht penalty was excusable, and the 2 power play goals that ensued are entirely Miller's fault (didn't one go off our defenseman, one of them did in the 3rd)!? That penalty never should have happened. All he had to do was keep his stick down. The player was covered. Miller's worst play was light years better than Hecht's penalty. And what about Grier, a blind cross ice pass 2 feet from the blue line. There never should've been a shot on that play to begin with, yet it's all Millers fault. No wonder he got pissed at press. Maybe he's tired of taking the heat his teammate's irresponsible gaffes.

 

And along the lines of a previous poster, didn't Miller win the 3 games previous to this?

 

If the front office tries to shake things up with goaltending, the season's over.

[DFITZ1]

A couple folks have mentioned something along these lines now. And the more I look at season stats the more cloudy things become. It isn't very clear whether offence or defence is the real (or the whole) issue.

 

Last year Buffalo was 11th in goals for and 4th in goals against. This year Buffalo is 13th in goals for and 13th in goals against (if you use GAA instead they are 21st). They are 0.25 goals per game behind last years' pace offensively but right on pace for the same number of total goals against. Yet their league ranking for GA is much lower than last season and GF is only a little lower.

 

I'm inclinded to say that offense has dipped a little since last season *AND* so has defence/goaltending. And I think a comparison of last years stats to this years bears this out.

 

I don't think the stats are telling the whole story. The stat they don't always keep (maybe someone does) is quality shots and quality saves. I've seen games where a goalie gets 35+ shots but gets an easy shut out because they are log distance, poor angle (i.e. a Hecht shot), or well defensed. I've noticed more odd man rushes and giveaways by the Sabres this year and that has required Miller to make more quality saves, and he has. Trouble is, more go in as well. Also, teams are trying to screen Miller more and the defense isn't helping by leaving the points open so much. The drop in defensive play was obvious at the start of the season. It's gotten better (then again, so has the number of wins). Offensively, before January, 3 goals was a big night. Even if Miller's play is off, his play is not off like the rest of the team is (or was, we did take 5 of 6 points last week, and that's darn good).

[Bmwolf21]

I don't know from Vogl, but apparently Sully pisses off more than just Miller.

 

Man, does he sound like a whiny beotch.

Amen.

 

Not only does he sound like a whiny beyotch, he continues to expose himself as a jackass who apparently knows little about hockey.

[X. Benedict]

Amen.

 

Not only does he sound like a whiny beyotch, he continues to expose himself as a jackass who apparently knows little about hockey.

 

I'm sorry I listened to that.

 

Angry and ignorant. The guy is both.

 

Seriously, the guy speaks and dumbs down the entire market.

 

Geez. I think I'll stick to Fan 590.

[Bmwolf21]

I'm sorry I listened to that.

 

Angry and ignorant. The guy is both.

 

Seriously, the guy speaks and dumbs down the entire market.

 

Geez. I think I'll stick to Fan 590.

Perfect summary.

 

I was glad to hear the other host (not Simon, but didn't catch the name) smack him into place a couple times.

 

It was like he was looking for things to be pissed about. Calling out the Sabres PR team for not cutting the interview short and then chastising PR departments in the NHL and NFL for wanting to protect their stars?

[SwampD]

Perfect summary.

 

I was glad to hear the other host (not Simon, but didn't catch the name) smack him into place a couple times.

 

It was like he was looking for things to be pissed about. Calling out the Sabres PR team for not cutting the interview short and then chastising PR departments in the NHL and NFL for wanting to protect their stars?

It's typical media arrogance. He was even worse on Shoop and the Bulldog later today. Everything was about him and how it relates to his story. The more he talked, the more he proved himself to be a self-righteous tool.

[JJFIVEOH]

With all this talk about our defense being porous.......... has anybody noticed the Sabres have climbed to 8th in the league in scoring sandwiched in between Pittsburgh and Tampa? The Sabres won the division last year and are now currently out of the playoffs. We only lost two defensemen and picked up one in return. They are currently 12 points behind last years pace. Can anybody tell me they honestly think our defense is to blame?

 

Am I just adding to the problem of this thread going way off topic?:blush:

[billsrcursed]

With all this talk about our defense being porous.......... has anybody noticed the Sabres have climbed to 8th in the league in scoring sandwiched in between Pittsburgh and Tampa? The Sabres won the division last year and are now currently out of the playoffs. We only lost two defensemen and picked up one in return. They are currently 12 points behind last years pace. Can anybody tell me they honestly think our defense is to blame?

 

Am I just adding to the problem of this thread going way off topic?:blush:

 

I believe we picked up two...

[DFITZ1]

With all this talk about our defense being porous.......... has anybody noticed the Sabres have climbed to 8th in the league in scoring sandwiched in between Pittsburgh and Tampa? The Sabres won the division last year and are now currently out of the playoffs. We only lost two defensemen and picked up one in return. They are currently 12 points behind last years pace. Can anybody tell me they honestly think our defense is to blame?

 

Am I just adding to the problem of this thread going way off topic?:blush:

Most of the blame goes to the forwards. Their lack of scoring in the first half of the year is what dug most of the hole the Sabres are trying to dig out of.

[Patty16]

Its much harder in hockey to break down defense and offense bc each position contributes to the other. The forward play in the defensive zone has been pretty bad.

 

Go back and watch some highlights from the past few games and see how many breakdowns in the zone are from forwards playing poorly.

[Stoner]

Sabres have not only cut a shot per game defensively, they've improved their giveaways from last season. They're 13th this season; were third last season. 10 per game to 8.9 per game.

[SabresFan526]

Perfect summary.

 

I was glad to hear the other host (not Simon, but didn't catch the name) smack him into place a couple times.

 

It was like he was looking for things to be pissed about. Calling out the Sabres PR team for not cutting the interview short and then chastising PR departments in the NHL and NFL for wanting to protect their stars?

I heard that as well. I think his name is Jeremy White? He made Sullivan look like an absolute idiot. It was fairly clear after that interview that Sullivan knows nothing about the NHL and does not know anything about what's going on across the NHL or the league. In that respect, I'll give Bucky Gleason some credit as he is very knowledgeable about the NHL as a whole. Sullivan knows nothing about the rest of the league and it became very apparent during that interview.

 

Also, given how useless Jerry Sullivan is, I'm really interested in knowing, what's the difference between him and a blogger? The reality is since no one actually buys and reads a newspaper, his salary is really coming from the google ad words on The Buffalo News Website (I'm sure the TBN loses tons of money because of poor circulation). Similarly, a blogger in this day and age can do the same thing and make as much money or more than Sullivan does if his/her website gets more hits. Ultimately, what makes Jerry Sullivan more qualified than say Garth from Hockeybuzz? As far as I can tell, they are both equally useless, but I think Garth actually gets more site hits than Sullivan does making Eklund and his fictitious writing staff a lot of money.

 

By the way, the editing and writing over at the Buffalo News has really become putrid. These guys go to press with so many spelling, grammatical, and punctuation mistakes it's incredible. You would expect more from guys who actually have journalism degrees oh and use the Microsoft Word Spell Check and Grammar Check, but apparently not. Man, someone should go off on TBN because boy their quality of writing has really gone down hill and they really are not above the criticism either. It's woeful.

[Stoner]

I heard that as well. I think his name is Jeremy White? He made Sullivan look like an absolute idiot. It was fairly clear after that interview that Sullivan knows nothing about the NHL and does not know anything about what's going on across the NHL or the league. In that respect, I'll give Bucky Gleason some credit as he is very knowledgeable about the NHL as a whole. Sullivan knows nothing about the rest of the league and it became very apparent during that interview.

 

Also, given how useless Jerry Sullivan is, I'm really interested in knowing, what's the difference between him and a blogger? The reality is since no one actually buys and reads a newspaper, his salary is really coming from the google ad words on The Buffalo News Website (I'm sure the TBN loses tons of money because of poor circulation). Similarly, a blogger in this day and age can do the same thing and make as much money or more than Sullivan does if his/her website gets more hits. Ultimately, what makes Jerry Sullivan more qualified than say Garth from Hockeybuzz? As far as I can tell, they are both equally useless, but I think Garth actually gets more site hits than Sullivan does making Eklund and his fictitious writing staff a lot of money.

 

By the way, the editing and writing over at the Buffalo News has really become putrid. These guys go to press with so many spelling, grammatical, and punctuation mistakes it's incredible. You would expect more from guys who actually have journalism degrees oh and use the Microsoft Word Spell Check and Grammar Check, but apparently not. Man, someone should go off on TBN because boy their quality of writing has really gone down hill and they really are not above the criticism either. It's woeful.

 

I'd like to see the blogger who makes more than Jerry does. There might be a few on a national level. You'd have to have an enormous number of hits.

 

Jerry is a gifted writer and pot-stirrer. We need 20 Jerrys covering Buffalo sports.

 

--Jerry's Nana