Vogl: cowardly and overrated

[X. Benedict]

You're so old school.

 

Where is this deal written?

 

If Vogl can confirm that Miller is playing with such and such an injury, it should be reported. Vogl works for me, not Darcy.

 

What are the Sabres going to do, throw out the only newspaper in town?

 

There's nothing wrong with Vogl asking the question.

 

Let me find it.

and actually it is new school.

 

It happened when/after Pat Quinn or Pat Burns (can't remember which, started locking out reporters.)

 

The beat reporters don't comment on medical and training stuff that isn't self-disclosed or completely evident . Maybe you can find one that does. But that's how it works.

[That Aud Smell]

Vogl works for me, not Darcy.

in fact, he works for the buffalo news. and if the paper's sports editors, in their discretion, determine that it's better for them to leave some facts unreported, some rumors unrelated, in exchange for better access, then that's their call.

 

we don't have to agree that they're making the right call. and, of course, we're free to ignore their product as a show of protest.

[hockeyhound]

Sometimes I wonder if Ryans new fiance could be a bit of a distraction.

 

Everyone who has been married for sometime can tell you that managing a relationship can be one of the toughest things one will ever face.

 

When I look back, what has changed in Ryans life since last year?

 

I'm sure that is only a question Ryan can answer; one can only speculate; however, you cannot ignore marriage proposals etc. are stressors.

 

Playing hockey is a fulltime mental and physical battle; moreover, goaltending in my opinion is the hardest position to play.

 

I applaud Ryan for the work load that he has carried this year.

 

30 something straight starts, wow.

 

I hope he can turn it around.

 

Please do not misunderstand me, if Ryan has to make relationships decisions it might as well be this year.

 

Hang in there Ryan, we wish the best to you and yours, and this fan is behind you.

 

Go Sabres!

[Patty16]

in fact, he works for the buffalo news. and if the paper's sports editors, in their discretion, determine that it's better for them to leave some facts unreported, some rumors unrelated, in exchange for better access, then that's their call.

 

we don't have to agree that they're making the right call. and, of course, we're free to ignore their product as a show of protest.

 

well put.

[rickshaw]

"I'm not playing at the level I guess that was expected after last season but I feel like I'm contributing and playing decent. I obviously want to improve and that's the name of the game. You try to improve every day and try to win every day."

 

Does this quote, especially the first part, sound like that of the team leader? Shouldn't we expect you to play like the reigning Vezina winner or is that just a one off Ryan? When you are supposedly the league's best goalie, while you may not be every year, shouldn't we expect you to be in the mix the very next year??? Playing decent isn't good enough. Is it ok when Myers just plays decent? No. Is it ok when Sekera plays decent? No.

 

Seriously, I get that Ryan has his fans but this is not the attitude I want my "best player" to have. Myers has had a rough year but you don't see him sugarcoating his poor efforts. That is what a true leader does. Stand up and just say, this loss is on me and I can guarantee you that the team will respect him more and work harder for him.

[Stoner]

in fact, he works for the buffalo news. and if the paper's sports editors, in their discretion, determine that it's better for them to leave some facts unreported, some rumors unrelated, in exchange for better access, then that's their call.

 

we don't have to agree that they're making the right call. and, of course, we're free to ignore their product as a show of protest.

 

Well, yeah, I realize I am not cutting Vogl's checks. Ultimately, the Sabres coverage is there to serve the fans. If they ignore that, that might explain why people look elsewhere for information.

 

What good is the access?

[Stoner]

"I'm not playing at the level I guess that was expected after last season but I feel like I'm contributing and playing decent. I obviously want to improve and that's the name of the game. You try to improve every day and try to win every day."

 

Does this quote, especially the first part, sound like that of the team leader? Shouldn't we expect you to play like the reigning Vezina winner or is that just a one off Ryan? When you are supposedly the league's best goalie, while you may not be every year, shouldn't we expect you to be in the mix the very next year??? Playing decent isn't good enough. Is it ok when Myers just plays decent? No. Is it ok when Sekera plays decent? No.

 

Seriously, I get that Ryan has his fans but this is not the attitude I want my "best player" to have. Myers has had a rough year but you don't see him sugarcoating his poor efforts. That is what a true leader does. Stand up and just say, this loss is on me and I can guarantee you that the team will respect him more and work harder for him.

 

You nailed it.

 

What I took from that interview is that Ryan himself believes the Vezina was a fluke.

[dumb_dumb88]

God I would be distracted to. I mean really, that rack in a push-up bra is just a thing of bueaty.

Not to mention those hips, ........need a kleenex, brb :blink:

[dumb_dumb88]

You nailed it.

 

What I took from that interview is that Ryan himself believes the Vezina was a fluke.

But it did land him one hell of a hottie :thumbsup:

[hockeyhound]

God I would be distracted to. I mean really, that rack in a push-up bra is just a thing of bueaty.

Not to mention those hips, ........need a kleenex, brb :blink:

 

:wub:

[X. Benedict]

Well, yeah, I realize I am not cutting Vogl's checks. Ultimately, the Sabres coverage is there to serve the fans. If they ignore that, that might explain why people look elsewhere for information.

 

What good is the access?

 

(I'm working on finding it)

 

Please consider that it is a division of labor at a newspaper.

 

Between Vogl, Bucky, Harrington, and Sullivan the entire lawn gets divided up and mowed.

Vogl is good at his job. It just isn't the job description that you would have for him.

The more access given...and he has the most, the more rules he has to follow.

 

Bloggers are now going through the process of trying to get the access too. The trouble is that they aren't party to the written/un-written codes the professional writers and league worked out.

 

Also consider this: If a beat reporter starts reporting that Miller, for example, is having his glove-hand elbow worked on regularly, where are the shots going the next game?

[Stoner]

(I'm working on finding it)

 

Please consider that it is a division of labor at a newspaper.

 

Between Vogl, Bucky, Harrington, and Sullivan the entire lawn gets divided up and mowed.

Vogl is good at his job. It just isn't the job description that you would have for him.

The more access given...and he has the most, the more rules he has to follow.

 

Bloggers are now going through the process of trying to get the access too. The trouble is that they aren't party to the written/un-written codes the professional writers and league worked out.

 

Also consider this: If a beat reporter starts reporting that Miller, for example, is having his glove-hand elbow worked on regularly, where are the shots going the next game?

 

Harrington seems to be doing his job a lot differently than Vogl is, and they're both beat reporters. Harrington Tweets, for example, and he can be very devastating in his opinions about the team. At pressers, Harrington tends to throw the high brushback pitch, while Vogl is setting up the Tball stand. Why is that?

 

If the Sabres grant access to Vogl to the training room, and Sabres medical staff talk to him, and even other players start talking, whose fault is it if the injury news gets out? Don't shoot the messenger.

 

So there's an actual deal in writing? I thought you were being metaphorical. :)

[Eyesonmedia]

But again, why give him access if he's not going to use it? Why not just use the standard-issued Sabres press releases? And say what you will, it's obvious to almost everyone who reads and pays attention that Harrington is a true vet who brings credibility. Vogl whines and cries. He even needed Jerry Sullivan to come to his defense. Sad. Nobody would need to come to Jerry Sullivan's defense, I'm guessing.

[X. Benedict]

Harrington seems to be doing his job a lot differently than Vogl is, and they're both beat reporters. Harrington Tweets, for example, and he can be very devastating in his opinions about the team. At pressers, Harrington tends to throw the high brushback pitch, while Vogl is setting up the Tball stand. Why is that?

 

If the Sabres grant access to Vogl to the training room, and Sabres medical staff talk to him, and even other players start talking, whose fault is it if the injury news gets out? Don't shoot the messenger.

 

So there's an actual deal in writing? I thought you were being metaphorical. :)

 

 

It is in writing. And it explicitly forbids access to the medical room and trainer's table IIRC.

It doesn't forbid reporting on it, but the part stands for the whole. It is a convention of the trade these days.

 

The medical room and the trainer room issues are off limits to questions that didn't obviously happen on the ice. I guess I don't find great differences in what Harrington and Vogl actually put in print.

 

I think if anything, Miller thought Vogl's question was leading.

[tom webster]

Who cares what the context is? If Jerry rubs that stat in Miller's face to point out how badly he has been playing then I'm actually surprised Ryan didn't slug him. It was a douche move on Sully's part. And isn't it a valis point on Miller's part anyway? He covers the Sabres yet has missed one quarter of the games?

 

 

He doesn't actually "cover" the Sabres. He is a columnist and writing about the Sabres is only a small part of his job.

[DFITZ1]

Sometimes I wonder if Ryans new fiance could be a bit of a distraction.

 

Everyone who has been married for sometime can tell you that managing a relationship can be one of the toughest things one will ever face.

 

When I look back, what has changed in Ryans life since last year?

 

I'm sure that is only a question Ryan can answer; one can only speculate; however, you cannot ignore marriage proposals etc. are stressors.

 

Playing hockey is a fulltime mental and physical battle; moreover, goaltending in my opinion is the hardest position to play.

 

I applaud Ryan for the work load that he has carried this year.

 

30 something straight starts, wow.

 

I hope he can turn it around.

 

Please do not misunderstand me, if Ryan has to make relationships decisions it might as well be this year.

 

Hang in there Ryan, we wish the best to you and yours, and this fan is behind you.

 

Go Sabres!

 

Miller had a tough game, but all this attention to Miller, especially by the Buff News sports idiots, is badly misplaced. What I saw in the 3rd period was a team that hung their goalie out to dry every time the Sabres took the lead. Poor passing, a dumb penalty, plus a whiff in OT. Is Miller suppose to save th eday every day while the skaters run for the locker room. You want to blame someone for yesterdays loss, I'd look at Grier (bad giveaway at blue line), Hecht (dumb penalty giving Isles a long 5 on 3) and Sekara (whiff gives up game ending rush) before Miller.

[SabresFan526]

What ridiculous hype and such a non-story. I can't believe the guys over at the Buffalo News are getting all worked up about this. I can't believe there's even a thread on this. It's pretty simple as I see it, and I heard Vogl's tape recorder. Miller just came off a lousy performance and was steaming about it. To add to it, Vogl asks Miller a question as to whether he was injured or not to give him an excuse for why he played bad. Miller, already upset by his incredibly poor performance, takes exception to the notion that he was injured and gets mad at Vogl to which Jerry Sullivan tries to stand up for Vogl and he gets into an argument with Miller. Big deal. This happens all the time and there's no need to report on it.

 

Hell, has anyone ever seen a John Tortorella press conference? He's borderline abusive to the beat reporters, Larry Brooks in particular. How about Lindy? My goodness, he regularly goes off on these beat reporters. Does anyone remember back in the 1990 NFL season when Bruce Smith had an injury and some guy asked Marv Levy if Smith had drug problems? He nearly tore that guy's head off with vocabulary no one has ever heard before. As far as I'm concerned, this is no big deal, and just another day in the life of a long season.

 

What's silly in all of this is how defensive Vogl and Sullivan are getting about the whole thing. Seriously, is this the first time a reporter has gotten yelled at by a player? The guys who come off as whiny and b!tchy about this are really Vogl and Sullivan because hey, it's part of their job. You honestly don't think there won't be an emotional reaction when you ask tough questions? I find it interesting how these guys decide to get all huffy and puffy by publishing a piece on Miller because Miller got huffy and puffy with them. If they are "above" it and find Miller's behavior classless, then why would they do the same thing by publishing a column that makes them look just as classless as Miller? I don't understand why reporters cannot get criticized, but only players can. Reporters do not have any sort of shield of invincibility that should prevent them from being criticized. Otherwise, nobody will hold the media accountable and ultimately the media will run the world and we should be robots to their agenda. I have no problem with Miller getting upset with these guys, and I have no problem with these guys asking Miller tough questions. It's a non-story.

 

Now, if Miller was really at the same level and as hurtful as the reporters, he should take advantage of social media, blogs, twitter, and absolutely rip Sullivan and Vogl a new one and lambast them through social media. It's so simple, and it's incredibly effective at spinning his agenda. And, ultimately, that's what this whole game is about, spinning agenda for the player, for the team, and for the columnist. Everybody's got an agenda, and this whole game with the media is all about spinning each person's agenda to get a story out to the public that we must all read critically and determine the true story for ourselves. Just my thoughts. A lot of writing for a non-story, eh? Oh well.

[DFITZ1]

The only thing more disgusting than losing IN OT yesterday was Vogl's and Sully's amateur and bush league whining about how Miller didn't play nice to them after the game. The News writers have a delusion that they are the sole entities that all players, owners and coaches must satisfy and kiss up to in Buffalo sports circles. Not only is that wrong, their opinions and writing reads more like a small-town weekly, written by a wannabee writer still in high school (I apologize to anyone from small towns, in high school and write who this article and anything written by Sully, Gleason or Vogl might offend). Most of their writing is a sensational statement of the obvious often heard at water coolers and bar stools for free. We should loatrhe for the days when Buffalo media had competition in The News and Courier-Express where poor writing got you the boot and excellence brought national acclaim (Larry Felser and the late-great Jim Kelley, both products of 2 newspaper times). Could Sully, Vogl or Gleason write hocket in Toronto (3 papers), highly unlikely.

 

Back to Miller. Yes, he had a bad day, and guess what, ALL goalies have bad days. However, what's worse is the media is so caught up with Miller and a possible off season, and failed to pay attention to glaring mistakes by the skaters in the 3rd period that hung Miller out to dry. First, the one thing Miller should have done, is at the end of regulation, grab Grier and Hecht, drag them to center ice and kick'em in the rear in front of 18K+ fans for making blatantly dumb moves that hung Miller out to dry. Grier's pass at the blue line was just boneheaded when a simple push 2 feet forward over the blue line ended the play, rather than assisting on an Isles goal. Hecht had no reason to take a hooking penalty that resulted in a long 5 on 3, and 5 on 4 for that matter. Take those two plays away, a regulation win is a good shot. Oh, not to mention Sekara's whiff in OT.

 

Miller has kept the Sabres in more games than most realize. They just expect shutouts and miracles on demand. Did they forget that the Sabres took 5 out of 6 points last week which exceeds a better than 2/3rds point total needed to get in the playoffs. Also, Millers bad games are better than dome high priced forward's good games.

 

Give Miller a break, and Sully the boot. That's my feeling and I'm sticking to it.

[hockeyhound]

Miller had a tough game, but all this attention to Miller, especially by the Buff News sports idiots, is badly misplaced. What I saw in the 3rd period was a team that hung their goalie out to dry every time the Sabres took the lead. Poor passing, a dumb penalty, plus a whiff in OT. Is Miller suppose to save th eday every day while the skaters run for the locker room. You want to blame someone for yesterdays loss, I'd look at Grier (bad giveaway at blue line), Hecht (dumb penalty giving Isles a long 5 on 3) and Sekara (whiff gives up game ending rush) before Miller.

 

I agree with you regarding the media.

 

This topic was not started as a result of preceived bad play in last nights game.

 

Players blameworthy?, yes; however, would you hang Ryan Miller's poor stats completly on the team?

 

"31st in the league in goals-against average at 2.78"

 

Has there been a trend of poor play over the course of the season?

 

Remember this is a forum, no one is out to hang Ryan; no one is saying the sky is falling.

 

As a topic of conversation he seems distracted e.g. commercials, publicity, fiance, etc. I'm sure it takes time to adjust to all of that.

 

Ryan Miller has proven he is a competetor;I'm sure he will work his way out of it.

[Two or less]

A third Miller vs. TBN thread?

 

C'mon man.

 

http://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/18585-vogl-cowardly-and-overrated/

[Weave]

Threads about Buffalo News sportswriters are like cow bell.

 

NEED MORE COW BELL !!!

[dumb_dumb88]

Miller will be fine.

My god, so much media hype over much a-do about nothing.

So the guy had a bad game, Sully and other media types that hype it up need to go sit in the corner.

 

So tired of the Buffalo Media for our sports teams, they should stick to reporting and stop these opinion/editorial pieces. :thumbdown:

[DFITZ1]

Miller will be fine.

My god, so much media hype over much a-do about nothing.

So the guy had a bad game, Sully and other media types that hype it up need to go sit in the corner.

 

So tired of the Buffalo Media for our sports teams, they should stick to reporting and stop these opinion/editorial pieces. :thumbdown:

It wasn't just TBN. WECK had a goof-ball anti-Miller article as well.

 

I agree Miller will be fine. It's the guys in front who screwed up worse.

 

There's still a measurable number who think the world of Sully and Gleason.

[Eleven]

 

What's silly in all of this is how defensive Vogl and Sullivan are getting about the whole thing. Seriously, is this the first time a reporter has gotten yelled at by a player? The guys who come off as whiny and b!tchy about this are really Vogl and Sullivan because hey, it's part of their job. You honestly don't think there won't be an emotional reaction when you ask tough questions? I find it interesting how these guys decide to get all huffy and puffy by publishing a piece on Miller because Miller got huffy and puffy with them. If they are "above" it and find Miller's behavior classless, then why would they do the same thing by publishing a column that makes them look just as classless as Miller? I don't understand why reporters cannot get criticized, but only players can. Reporters do not have any sort of shield of invincibility that should prevent them from being criticized. Otherwise, nobody will hold the media accountable and ultimately the media will run the world and we should be robots to their agenda. I have no problem with Miller getting upset with these guys, and I have no problem with these guys asking Miller tough questions. It's a non-story.

 

 

Just doing some distilling....this is the important part, and it is right on.

[wonderbread]

merge me please