Stoner Posted January 23, 2011 Report Posted January 23, 2011 This discussion reveals the black hole that is mediocrity. There's been enough success to make one side of the argument look good, and enough failures that the other side can win too. Middling. Like this, like that. We should all agree it's not good enough and demand more of our team. Here comes a new owner -- good time to do that.
Patty16 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Posted January 23, 2011 Ruff is living proof you can be considered "successful" by simply riding good goal-tending. If you have a good goalie and you build around him you can have ultimate success. So much success it doesn't matter who the coach is. The Devils have three Stanley Cups. Same goalie, three different coaches. To answer your question. No, I never wondered why Ruff and Regier are respected league wide. The main reason is I don't how true that is. I can't imagine people that pay any attention to this team and watch how often that are completely unprepared to play a game would consider Ruff and Regier in that high of regard. If the Sabres miss the playoffs this season that would would mean that half of the times this franchise has failed to qualify for the playoffs happened during Ruff's and Regier's time here in Buffalo. Why did team canada, who could have any coach they wanted, pick Ruff as one for the Olympics. Is it bc he just rides good goaltending. Theres simply no basis for that fact, if you watched TSN, NHL Network, read NHL newsites you would understand that Ruff is very highly regarded. PS when the sabres had the most success in the Miller era, he wasnt as good as he is now. Its easy man argument to say Ruff is only good bc of goaltending....what team isnt? Is Bellichick only a good coach bc he has tom brady and he rides him? same argument. As for Regier, he is highly regarded as well. As fans of buffalo we hate some of his moves, but do you kknow how many teams fans feel the same about their GMs. How about those devils fans? Did sweet Lou just ride Brodeur all those years? Its a dirty little secret that Regier has been hamstrung by LQ and OSP with the roster.
Stoner Posted January 23, 2011 Report Posted January 23, 2011 Stand corrected but I am not a fan of comparng eras. There are a multitude of factors that weigh into those results. Comitted, stable ownership being just one. I think the Knoxes brought stability. Commitment, to winning a Cup, not so sure. Just read Rob Ray's book. He had some very nice things to say about the Knoxes (decent men, Sabres were a family etc.) he was very direct at one point in the book when he said he realized not long after arriving in Buffalo why the Sabres hadn't won anything: ownership was stagnant, content with making the playoffs and unwilling to change with changing times in the league. Rob thinks that started to change around the time Pat LaFontaine and John Muckler arrived. BTW, Rob's also a little tough on Dom, several times suggesting the tight defensive play of the team contributed to Dom's success. That one's very debatable.
spndnchz Posted January 23, 2011 Report Posted January 23, 2011 Often thought Ray would make a great Assistant Coach. No BS kinda guy.
bunomatic Posted January 23, 2011 Report Posted January 23, 2011 The Sabres are averaging 1.5 goals per game in Lalime's starts this season. Just sayin'................... In fact, since last February the team has only scored more than 2 goals TWICE when Lalime started. Because Ruff has them go into a defensive shell in order to compensate for Lalimes incompetence.
Kristian Posted January 23, 2011 Report Posted January 23, 2011 Because Ruff has them go into a defensive shell in order to compensate for Lalimes incompetence. Sitting at 18th for 2.66 goals pr. game, I don't think the scoring problem is isolated to Lalime.
deluca67 Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Posted January 23, 2011 A - Why did team canada, who could have any coach they wanted, pick Ruff as one for the Olympics. Is it bc he just rides good goaltending. Theres simply no basis for that fact, if you watched TSN, NHL Network, read NHL newsites you would understand that Ruff is very highly regarded. B - PS when the sabres had the most success in the Miller era, he wasnt as good as he is now. Its easy man argument to say Ruff is only good bc of goaltending....what team isnt? C - Is Bellichick only a good coach bc he has tom brady and he rides him? same argument. D - As for Regier, he is highly regarded as well. As fans of buffalo we hate some of his moves, but do you kknow how many teams fans feel the same about their GMs. How about those devils fans? E - Did sweet Lou just ride Brodeur all those years? F -Its a dirty little secret that Regier has been hamstrung by LQ and OSP with the roster. Let me blow these up one by one. A - The NHL is an 'Old Boys Club'. Ruff has been around along time and that is as much of a reason for his "regard" as anything else. Ever notice that any "regard" for Ruff is usually based on his tenure. It's certainly not based on his team being ready to play every night. B - You start by saying that right after the lockout the Sabres were successful with their goaltending not being as good as it is now. You follow up by saying which team isn't as good as it's goaltendng? C - Belichick? Do you really want to compare a coach with multiple Championships to a coach with none? Anyway, Belichick won 14 games this year with 21 un-drafted free agents this season. The man is an amazing coach, strategist and talent evaluator. He also went 11-5 with Brady missing pretty much the entire season. D - Regier regarded makes me laugh. What is he regarded for? Tenure, just like Ruff. Regier is also high regarded for be "patient." He is regarded for doing nothing. How about those Devil's fans. Let's ask them, right after they are done watching their three Stanley Cup Championships highlight videos. E - Sweet Lou? Again trying to pull in someone with a tremendous amount of success into an argument about Lindy Ruff. Sweet Lou knows the value of good goaltending. He also knows how expendable coaches are. As I pointed out earlier, three Stanley Cups with three different coaches. Safe to say if Sweet Lou was hired as Sabres GM 13 years ago the Sabres would have a Stanley Cup banner and Lindy Ruff would have been fired 10 years ago. F - "Dirty little secret?" Try unsubstantiated myth brought on by those that want to excuse away Regier's inability to be successful at his job. Pre-lockout all we heard was how the Sabres couldn't compete with the big market heavy spenders. Here we are with a salary cap and the Sabres spending pretty close to it every year and they still can't compete. If ownership is to be blamed for anything it should be for not firing Regier.
deluca67 Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Posted January 23, 2011 This discussion reveals the black hole that is mediocrity. There's been enough success to make one side of the argument look good, and enough failures that the other side can win too. Middling. Like this, like that. We should all agree it's not good enough and demand more of our team. Here comes a new owner -- good time to do that. There are those that will never agree that this team is not close enough to being a contender and that changes need to be made. I understand why. The thought of having to start all over sucks. I just hope that any new owner will come in and start the process of change right away. There is no need to wait till the off-season. Cut the managing partner, general manager and coach off at the head right after the ink drives on the contract. Show the league and the fan base that what has been going on here is unacceptable.
bob_sauve28 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Posted January 23, 2011 Why did team canada, who could have any coach they wanted, pick Ruff as one for the Olympics. What does this have to do with anything?
tom webster Posted January 23, 2011 Report Posted January 23, 2011 Let me blow these up one by one. A - The NHL is an 'Old Boys Club'. Ruff has been around along time and that is as much of a reason for his "regard" as anything else. Ever notice that any "regard" for Ruff is usually based on his tenure. It's certainly not based on his team being ready to play every night. B - You start by saying that right after the lockout the Sabres were successful with their goaltending not being as good as it is now. You follow up by saying which team isn't as good as it's goaltendng? C - Belichick? Do you really want to compare a coach with multiple Championships to a coach with none? Anyway, Belichick won 14 games this year with 21 un-drafted free agents this season. The man is an amazing coach, strategist and talent evaluator. He also went 11-5 with Brady missing pretty much the entire season. D - Regier regarded makes me laugh. What is he regarded for? Tenure, just like Ruff. Regier is also high regarded for be "patient." He is regarded for doing nothing. How about those Devil's fans. Let's ask them, right after they are done watching their three Stanley Cup Championships highlight videos. E - Sweet Lou? Again trying to pull in someone with a tremendous amount of success into an argument about Lindy Ruff. Sweet Lou knows the value of good goaltending. He also knows how expendable coaches are. As I pointed out earlier, three Stanley Cups with three different coaches. Safe to say if Sweet Lou was hired as Sabres GM 13 years ago the Sabres would have a Stanley Cup banner and Lindy Ruff would have been fired 10 years ago. F - "Dirty little secret?" Try unsubstantiated myth brought on by those that want to excuse away Regier's inability to be successful at his job. Pre-lockout all we heard was how the Sabres couldn't compete with the big market heavy spenders. Here we are with a salary cap and the Sabres spending pretty close to it every year and they still can't compete. If ownership is to be blamed for anything it should be for not firing Regier. Ok, I can't let you say this again without rebuttal. The team has flopped from one year to the next with this and did it purposely to fulfill their obligations in order to maximize their share of revenue sharing. This year again they are 16th in the league in terms of cap space used. Secondly, with regards to your "can't blame ownership comment" previously, I blame them entirely for what happened in the Summers of 2006 and 2007. Without rehashing the whole ugly happenings, I am quite sure that this team would have made the playoffs the last five years if the contracts of Dumont, Drury, Briere and Vanek were handled correctly. Would that have meant that Lindy was a better coach?
deluca67 Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Posted January 23, 2011 Ok, I can't let you say this again without rebuttal. The team has flopped from one year to the next with this and did it purposely to fulfill their obligations in order to maximize their share of revenue sharing. This year again they are 16th in the league in terms of cap space used. Secondly, with regards to your "can't blame ownership comment" previously, I blame them entirely for what happened in the Summers of 2006 and 2007. Without rehashing the whole ugly happenings, I am quite sure that this team would have made the playoffs the last five years if the contracts of Dumont, Drury, Briere and Vanek were handled correctly. Would that have meant that Lindy was a better coach? Even at 16th they are spending over $55 million on this current roster. They are not in a pre-lockout disadvantage of spending $20-30 million less then the top spending teams. Who knows what would have happen if those four were signed. Maybe the GM at the time should have gotten them signed. Maybe Regier shouldn't have let the Edmonton Oilers negotiate Vanek's contract for them. Maybe Regier should have been a better judge of talent and kept Dumount and traded away Kotilik. Maybe Regier should have gotten his Captains signed. The money was there to spend and Regier spent the money poorly.
tom webster Posted January 23, 2011 Report Posted January 23, 2011 Even at 16th they are spending over $55 million on this current roster. They are not in a pre-lockout disadvantage of spending $20-30 million less then the top spending teams. Who knows what would have happen if those four were signed. Maybe the GM at the time should have gotten them signed. Maybe Regier shouldn't have let the Edmonton Oilers negotiate Vanek's contract for them. Maybe Regier should have been a better judge of talent and kept Dumount and traded away Kotilik. Maybe Regier should have gotten his Captains signed. The money was there to spend and Regier spent the money poorly. I am complete agreement with this although I do believe he had Drury done and ownership dropped the ball.
bunomatic Posted January 23, 2011 Report Posted January 23, 2011 Sitting at 18th for 2.66 goals pr. game, I don't think the scoring problem is isolated to Lalime. It is when Lalimes in the net which was my point.
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