SwampD Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 You make a good point about requiring less value in return in a trade in order to get cap space, but I think you do that with a guy like Pommer or Hecht, not with a rarer talent like Spezza (or Heatley, for that matter). I would not give up Spezza for that package. It's important to point out that he has 22 pts in 35 games, not 55. There might an "intangible" addition-by-subtraction benefit for both teams. Also, I think Spezza has more upside and is a better playmaker than Roy. I would love to see him centering for Vanek. What does this mean? Isn't Roy missing a huge chunk of this season with an injury? Spezza is what TC could have become but hasn't. I agree that this is the logical decision, but sometimes teams either make bonehead moves or get forced into making bad deals. It could happen with Spezza. He's been very productive over a fairly lengthy period, including in the playoffs. He's had a crappy season along with everyone else on that roster. The guys with the biggest contracts get scapegoated when things don't go right. He's not the Ryan Kesler or Mike Richards that the Sabres really need, but he'd be a great pickup IMHO. TC was just an example. The real question was Stafford for Spezza. Seems like a lateral move for twice the money.
deluca67 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 TC was just an example. The real question was Stafford for Spezza. Seems like a lateral move for twice the money. Based on what? Stafford, even during his recent hot streak, has never been able to dominate games like Spezza has. No offense, to compare Stafford to a Jason Spezza is a bit of an insult to Spezza. I've never been on the Spezza bandwagon and have probably said similar things about him as I have about Connolly. Talent/production wise? Stafford doesn't belong in the conversation. It would take Stafford and at least a #1 and likely more to acquire Spezza.
SwampD Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Based on what? Stafford, even during his recent hot streak, has never been able to dominate games like Spezza has. No offense, to compare Stafford to a Jason Spezza is a bit of an insult to Spezza. I've never been on the Spezza bandwagon and have probably said similar things about him as I have about Connolly. Talent/production wise? Stafford doesn't belong in the conversation. It would take Stafford and at least a #1 and likely more to acquire Spezza. Like Jim Cramer, I don't care where a stock was, I care where it's going. I feel Stafford's star is rising and Spezza's has already started falling (specifically when Heatly left Ottawa).
deluca67 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Like Jim Cramer, I don't care where a stock was, I care where it's going. I feel Stafford's star is rising and Spezza's has already started falling (specifically when Heatly left Ottawa). To use your theory, wouldn't Spezza's stock rise with Vanek on a wing?
SwampD Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 To use your theory, wouldn't Spezza's stock rise with Vanek on a wing? It would have to rise a whole helluva lot to be worth a $14 million line. I'll say it again, I still think Drew can be what Spezza was. Remove the Heatly years and Spezza's numbers are similar to Drew's, and those were on good Ottawa teams. Drew got his numbers on crappy Sabres teams. I'll take Drew,.. actually, both would be nice.
deluca67 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 It would have to rise a whole helluva lot to be worth a $14 million line. I'll say it again, I still think Drew can be what Spezza was. Remove the Heatly years and Spezza's numbers are similar to Drew's, and those were on good Ottawa teams. Drew got his numbers on crappy Sabres teams. I'll take Drew,.. actually, both would be nice. In his only full season before Heatly Spezza was 22-33-55 which is better than Stafford's best season.
Lanny Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 In his only full season before Heatly Spezza was 22-33-55 which is better than Stafford's best season. I agree that Spezza's better than Stafford, and would fill a huge hole at center, but to trade Stafford, who will probably cost around $3.5 mil going forward, and a #1 for him I'm not sure it's worth it. Would likely be better off going after Weiss in Florida who might cost a 1st & 2nd round pick, but $4 mill less of a cap hit, and plays a two way game.
deluca67 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 I agree that Spezza's better than Stafford, and would fill a huge hole at center, but to trade Stafford, who will probably cost around $3.5 mil going forward, and a #1 for him I'm not sure it's worth it. Would likely be better off going after Weiss in Florida who might cost a 1st & 2nd round pick, but $4 mill less of a cap hit. Weiss is cheaper for a reason. Spezza had more assists in one season(71) than Weiss's career high in points(61).
SwampD Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Weiss is cheaper for a reason. Spezza had more assists in one season(71) than Weiss's career high in points(61). Thornton's getting those assists now.
Lanny Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Weiss is cheaper for a reason. Spezza had more assists in one season(71) than Weiss's career high in points(61). Then again that was 5 years ago.
Stoner Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Do we really want someone who laughs like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbkI9SZmdgs&feature=related
bunomatic Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Do we really want someone who laughs like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbkI9SZmdgs&feature=related Spezza is a bit flaky. He's the male equivalent of the dumb blond. A mr. jessica simpson in gear.
dumb_dumb88 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Like Jim Cramer, I don't care where a stock was, I care where it's going. I feel Stafford's star is rising and Spezza's has already started falling (specifically when Heatly left Ottawa). Agreed. If anything, I would look to get Ennis and Stafford a Center. I wouldn't be trading Stafford. And on that note, I have to wonder if Regier is going to stand pat this deadline, maybe move a veteran or 2 for picks. Like Connolly and maybe Rivet. Although I'd personally like to see Grier and Nieds moved it's most likely not going to happen. If Regier is going to make a move to shore up the center position either for Vanek and Pomms or Ennis and Stafford, I'd look to the Western Conference for such a move. Specifically which team, I'd say either San Jose or possibily LA. What player and what position is anyone's guess.
Lanny Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Agreed. If anything, I would look to get Ennis and Stafford a Center. I wouldn't be trading Stafford. And on that note, I have to wonder if Regier is going to stand pat this deadline, maybe move a veteran or 2 for picks. Like Connolly and maybe Rivet. Although I'd personally like to see Grier and Nieds moved it's most likely not going to happen. If Regier is going to make a move to shore up the center position either for Vanek and Pomms or Ennis and Stafford, I'd look to the Western Conference for such a move. Specifically which team, I'd say either San Jose or possibily LA. What player and what position is anyone's guess. I think if a Dman is being traded it's Montador. Rivet is worth more on the team than what they could get for him, which is saying something. I'd like to see a lateral type move for this year that also helps the future. Perhaps trade Montador and Connolly out west for picks, and turn those picks into a non-rental center to replace Connolly in the lineup, options could include Weiss, Stoll, Brule. Butler replaces Montador in the lineup and Rivet becomes the 7th Dman.
deluca67 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 I think if a Dman is being traded it's Montador. Rivet is worth more on the team than what they could get for him, which is saying something. I'd like to see a lateral type move for this year that also helps the future. Perhaps trade Montador and Connolly out west for picks, and turn those picks into a non-rental center to replace Connolly in the lineup, options could include Weiss, Stoll, Brule. Butler replaces Montador in the lineup and Rivet becomes the 7th Dman. Stoll is at a good price cap wise. He does only have one more year on his current deal at $3.6 mil. I don't think you get him with Connolly or a package of picks. I would expect a version of a package including Stafford & Sekera would get it done.
Lanny Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Stoll is at a good price cap wise. He does only have one more year on his current deal at $3.6 mil. I don't think you get him with Connolly or a package of picks. I would expect a version of a package including Stafford & Sekera would get it done. I dont think he'd cost that much, perhaps I undervalue him, I only mentioned him because it's a name I've read as being available. In my opinion he's no more than a 3rd line guy, 2nd line on the Sabres with Roy's injury, though I'm not sure how LA values his intangibles etc. Though Kings fans seem to have a pretty low opinion of him, think us with how we value Hecht. He's only scored 20 goals once in his career, 5 years ago. I'm thinking Connolly's value is greater in the short term (Stoll long term because he's signed through next year) and could play on a wing with Kopitar, which is something they're looking for. So Connolly straight up or Connolly and a pick could maybe work for Stoll, or Connolly & Monty to LA for Stoll +?
deluca67 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 I dont think he'd cost that much, perhaps I undervalue him, I only mentioned him because it's a name I've read as being available. In my opinion he' no more than a 3rd line guy, 2nd line on the Sabres with Roy's injury, though I'm not sure how LA values his intangibles etc. He's only scored 20 goals once in his career, 5 years ago. I'm thinking Connolly's value is greater in the short term (Stoll long term because he's signed through next year) and could play on a wing with Kopitar, which is something they're looking for. So Connolly straight up or Connolly and a pick could work for Stoll, or Connolly & Monty to LA for Stoll +? Why would LA trade Stoll for Connolly? Connolly's top value is to a team in desperate, and I mean desperate, need for a center. Connolly's play this season may be a sign the end is near for his NHL career.
inkman Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Stoll is at a good price cap wise. He does only have one more year on his current deal at $3.6 mil. I don't think you get him with Connolly or a package of picks. I would expect a version of a package including Stafford & Sekera would get it done. Stafford and Sekera for Jarret Stoll? I hope they are sending a couple first round draft picks to Buffalo as well. Stafford and Sekera are entering the primes of the careers, trading them better land something huge.
dumb_dumb88 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Stafford and Sekera for Jarret Stoll? I hope they are sending a couple first round draft picks to Buffalo as well. Stafford and Sekera are entering the primes of the careers, trading them better land something huge. I'd hope Dustin Brown would be a part of the return for Sekera and Stafford. I just can't see that happening though.
Lanny Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Why would LA trade Stoll for Connolly? Connolly's top value is to a team in desperate, and I mean desperate, need for a center. Connolly's play this season may be a sign the end is near for his NHL career. I understand Connolly's drawbacks, the largest being his proneness to injury. But he is also talented enough to be a top 6 forward when healthy and is capable of playing both wings, something LA has been trying to obtain to pair with Kopitar for the last 2 to 3 years. Obviously he's not the Gaborik or Kovalchuk that they envisioned, but for two months he could help their cause in a tight West race. I'm not sure on the value coming back, maybe I'm way off, but I'm guessing if they want to trade Connolly there will be takers.
deluca67 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Stafford and Sekera for Jarret Stoll? I hope they are sending a couple first round draft picks to Buffalo as well. Stafford and Sekera are entering the primes of the careers, trading them better land something huge. Centers are the prime commodity in the league. Stoll has size and a bit of a physical game. Stoll won't come cheap. I'm not buying "Stafford has turned the corner." As an asset his value may never be higher than it is this season. Sekera, he has played more consistently this season. He may be one of the better defensemen the Sabres have right now. In order to upgrade the roster you need to offer more than the trash on the roster. With Pittsburgh and Boston possibly being in the market for a center the Sabres will need to come strong with offers or be shut out of the market for yet another season.
inkman Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 I'd hope Dustin Brown would be a part of the return for Sekera and Stafford. I just can't see that happening though. I really wish I never had to read his name on this board ever again. Every year posters storm in here around trade deadline time, pontificating about trading for Dustin Brown or every other teams best all around player. Teams don't trade their best young players unless they are stupid, cash strapped, or get something ridiculous in return. So if we want Dustin Brown, prepare to give up Myers.
deluca67 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 I understand Connolly's drawbacks, the largest being his proneness to injury. But he is also talented enough to be a top 6 forward when healthy and is capable of playing both wings, something LA has been trying to obtain to pair with Kopitar for the last 2 to 3 years. Obviously he's not the Gaborik or Kovalchuk that they envisioned, but for two months he could help their cause in a tight West race. If LA has been paying attention they would see that Connolly right now may not even be a third line talent let alone a top six. The fact that he is a pending UFA is a huge plus. Maybe that would ease some teams concerns. I don't see LA giving up Stoll for what appears to be a train wreck.
deluca67 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 I really wish I never had to read his name on this board ever again. Every year posters storm in here around trade deadline time, pontificating about trading for Dustin Brown or every other teams best all around player. Teams don't trade their best young players unless they are stupid, cash strapped, or get something ridiculous in return. So if we want Dustin Brown, prepare to give up Myers. I doubt anyone would want to see the Sabres give up Myers for Dustin Brown. Ryan Getzlaf on the other hand? I would sign off on that deal in a heartbeat.
Lanny Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 I doubt anyone would want to see the Sabres give up Myers for Dustin Brown. Ryan Getzlaf on the other hand? I would sign off on that deal in a heartbeat. I dont think that's happening anytime soon.
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