WJC Discussion Thread

[spndnchz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZMEE7tlq6A

 

hmmm....

[That Aud Smell]

From where I sat in the first row of the 300s, the Canadians completely and totally dominated the U.S. As DeLuca has pointed out, Canada so consistently pressured the puck and then supported the puck when they had possession, that at times it seemed as if it was a game of cat and mouse. Well, that metaphor is not terribly apt, since it was the Americans who looked like the pus$ies.

 

Good effort by both sides.

I think the US team put a good effort in, they were just outmatched.

In other words, the Canadians made the Americans look lazy. Happens all the time. I don't why anyone would say the U.S. team's effort was poor or they were dogging it. Makes absolutely no sense, and I didn't even have to watch the game to know it. You know those kids were balling their eyes out in the lockerroom after the game. Please... the effort was there.

I agree P.A. ,those kids played their hearts out. The fact that it didn't go their way shouldn't take away from that fact. Its a bit of an insult to suggest they didn't give it their all. Someones got to win and someones got to lose.

 

we get into this semantic debate all of the time around here regarding whether a team is giving a full effort. there's no doubt that each u.s. player did all that he was capable of doing on that particular evening and that, to a (young) man, they were devastated by the loss. but it was also apparent from watching the game that the u.s. players were genuinely intimidated and hopelessly tentative.

 

so, yeah -- we got a full and complete effort out of a team that was playing scared.

 

Why would a pro-Canada crowd boo Regier? Just messin' with the American side? I don't get it.

i was among those who lustily booed darcy. i would say 25% of the arena joined in. relevant here is that the sabres have something like 3000-4000 "season" ticket holders (partial or full packages) from southern ontario, many of whom identify themselves as sabres fans.

 

 

I can't remember the last time I saw a team contest the puck up and down the ice like the Canadians did. Team USA had a defender in their face on almost every pass attempt and there was pressure right away when Team USA was accepting that same pass. It was smothering and very impressive. A game plan executed to perfection.

 

my thoughts exactly -- full marks to those who planned and executed that strategy. i also think that this was how canada ran the russians to begin the tournament. we'll see if team russia can adjust on wednesday.

 

I knew I would be outnumbered but WOW! I still had a blast just watching the lobster fans going crazy the whole time. Actually, the reaction of the crowd when the Canadians were introduced was worth it to me.

i agree -- it was something to experience.

[Derrico]

Well I guess I don't need to go to a Canadians Sabres playoff in Montreal down the road because I got the full experience of that tonight. I knew I would be outnumbered but WOW! I still had a blast just watching the lobster fans going crazy the whole time. Actually, the reaction of the crowd when the Canadians were introduced was worth it to me.

 

I don't think so.....the crowd was similar to a leafs sabres game. All the leaf fans were cheering for Canada and half the ppl that go to sabres games are also Canadian so they were also cheering for Canada. Thus approximately 75% were going for the Red and White. There must be more Sabres fans who are Canadian than you think....

[Stoner]

I gave a link.

 

It was choppy. I recently cut my Internet back to 1 MB to save some money. Haven't missed it at all, except when it comes to streaming video.

[That Aud Smell]

I don't think so.....the crowd was similar to a leafs sabres game. All the leaf fans were cheering for Canada and half the ppl that go to sabres games are also Canadian so they were also cheering for Canada. Thus approximately 75% were going for the Red and White. There must be more Sabres fans who are Canadian than you think....

before attending the game, i had thought the split in the crowd would be something like 80/20 (canada/u.s.); having attended the game, i think that the split was more like 90/10 (or even 92/8, etc.). i think the constituency of the crowd was quite different from a typical sabres/leafs game (which, in my experience, trends closer to 50/50).

[CallawaySabres]

I don't think so.....the crowd was similar to a leafs sabres game. All the leaf fans were cheering for Canada and half the ppl that go to sabres games are also Canadian so they were also cheering for Canada. Thus approximately 75% were going for the Red and White. There must be more Sabres fans who are Canadian than you think....

 

I have been to many a Leafs Sabres game and those could not even come close to the dominance of Canadian fans there last night. I was in Section 114 and I literally did not see ONE American in the ENTIRE section. Looking around and listening to the crowd, I would say it was 90-10% if not more so for Canada....

[NNYSABRESMAN]

Hats off to the Canadian's. They thorughly kicked our ass. Their defensive play was stiffling. On the rare occasions we got it across their blue line; I can't think of one uncontested shot that we took that had a real chance of going in. They forced all play to the outside and never let up from beginning to the end. Oh and I do believe the US players were trying, otherwise the end score would have been 12-zip. Now on the upside Sabres fans can take consolation in two of the Canadians will be Sabres and hopefully sooner than later :thumbsup:

[deluca67]

I'm pretty sure that calling the game a one sided ass reaming is showing Canada the respect they deserve. Someone else mentioned effort, I said that many times throughout the game I didn't see it. Their own captain said it as well.

It wasn't that Team USA didn't have the effort. They just didn't have answers. What some will look at as a "lack of effort", I saw it as hesitation and frustration caused by the high level of execution by Team Canada. A team dedicated to defense can be a dangerous team. A talented team dedicated to defense is lethal and can make an opponent look like Team USA did last night.

 

To say Team USA didn't have the "effort" really downplays what Team Canada did last night. There was nothing that Team USA could have done differently to change the out come of that game.

[wjag]

It wasn't that Team USA didn't have the effort. They just didn't have answers. What some will look at as a "lack of effort", I saw it as hesitation and frustration caused by the high level of execution by Team Canada. A team dedicated to defense can be a dangerous team. A talented team dedicated to defense is lethal and can make an opponent look like Team USA did last night.

 

To say Team USA didn't have the "effort" really downplays what Team Canada did last night. There was nothing that Team USA could have done differently to change the out come of that game.

 

They could have scored some goals :thumbsup:

 

Canada was not to be denied last night.

[SwampD]

It wasn't that Team USA didn't have the effort. They just didn't have answers. What some will look at as a "lack of effort", I saw it as hesitation and frustration caused by the high level of execution by Team Canada. A team dedicated to defense can be a dangerous team. A talented team dedicated to defense is lethal and can make an opponent look like Team USA did last night.

 

To say Team USA didn't have the "effort" really downplays what Team Canada did last night. There was nothing that Team USA could have done differently to change the out come of that game.

All true. But it's a little chicken or the egg. I think Team USA made it easier on them by not skating hard, away from the puck. It was easier for Canada to close on the puck because the guys they were chasing weren't at full speed when they got it. It reminded me a lot of what we complain about the Sabre for; one guy playing one-on-one hockey and the others floating, waiting for that guy to do something. But all he ends up doing is losing the puck.

 

Again, I'm not taking anything away from the win and I think Canada will destroy Russia in the final. I also think that the US will be lucky to get a win against Sweden.

[Stoner]

All true. But it's a little chicken or the egg. I think Team USA made it easier on them by not skating hard, away from the puck. It was easier for Canada to close on the puck because the guys they were chasing weren't at full speed when they got it. It reminded me a lot of what we complain about the Sabre for; one guy playing one-on-one hockey and the others floating, waiting for that guy to do something. But all he ends up doing is losing the puck.

 

Again, I'm not taking anything away from the win and I think Canada will destroy Russia in the final. I also think that the US will be lucky to get a win against Sweden.

 

I think the onus is on you to explain why the American kids would not skate hard ("lack of effort" "lazy" "work ethic") in the World Juniors against Canada. It makes no sense and I am calling BS. It's OK to admit you don't fully understand the game. I've admitted as much even after watching for 30-some years. Fans and media often point to lack of effort or work ethic or laziness when they don't understand the game and can't otherwise explain what just happened out there.

[Eleven]

In other words, the Canadians made the Americans look lazy. Happens all the time. I don't why anyone would say the U.S. team's effort was poor or they were dogging it. Makes absolutely no sense, and I didn't even have to watch the game to know it. You know those kids were balling their eyes out in the lockerroom after the game. Please... the effort was there.

 

I think you might have one standard for the Sabres and another for the USA team.

 

And I hope it's bawling their eyes out, and not balling their eyes out. The latter conjures up some really gross imagery.

[That Aud Smell]

I think Team USA made it easier on them by not skating hard, away from the puck.

I think the onus is on you to explain why the American kids would not skate hard ("lack of effort" "lazy" "work ethic") in the World Juniors against Canada. It makes no sense and I am calling BS. It's OK to admit you don't fully understand the game. I've admitted as much even after watching for 30-some years. Fans and media often point to lack of effort or work ethic or laziness when they don't understand the game and can't otherwise explain what just happened out there.

there's a distinction with a difference to be drawn here, whether or not swamp is drawing it out with precisely the correct words. in any competitive engagement -- athletic or otherwise, i would submit -- there's a process whereby one side can grab the upper hand, assert control, etc. and, in so doing, diminish the quality of the opponent's "best effort".

 

i think what swamp is getting at is how the u.s. players were back on their heels, unsure of themselves, hesitant, etc. so, giving their absolute all? sure. playing to the best of their abilities? no.

[wjag]

there's a process whereby one side can grab the upper hand, assert control, etc. and, in so doing, diminish the quality of the opponent's "best effort".

 

i think what swamp is getting at is how the u.s. players were back on their heels, unsure of themselves, hesitant, etc. so, giving their absolute all? sure. playing to the best of their abilities? no.

 

 

That's why most professional trophies are handed out after a best of seven series. Takes care of the bad start, bad break, bad game, bad ref, bad karma issues.

[Weave]

my thoughts exactly -- full marks to those who planned and executed that strategy. i also think that this was how canada ran the russians to begin the tournament. we'll see if team russia can adjust on wednesday.

 

I am wondering what the Russians can do to adjust. I really think the majority of "blame" (if you can really assign it here) for the USA loss goes to the coaching staff. They had the opportunity to watch Canada smother Russia and the Czech Republic with that withering forecheck. I would think they would have better gameplanned to take advantage of the aggressive Canadian play.

 

Then again, maybe the coaches did game plan for it and the team wasn't up to executing it well enough. We'll soon see what Russia has to counter that heavy pressure.

[That Aud Smell]

Then again, maybe the coaches did game plan for it and the team wasn't up to executing it well enough.

i think that's the case -- that game came down to the winning team executing its plan (far, far) better than we did ours.

[Stoner]

i think what swamp is getting at is how the u.s. players were back on their heels, unsure of themselves, hesitant, etc. so, giving their absolute all? sure. playing to the best of their abilities? no.

 

I don't think that's what Swamp means at all. "Floating."

 

I'll allow Swamp to jump in and clarify before I type words on his keyboard (deleted "put words in his mouth" since it always sounds kinda kinky).

[Stoner]

I think you might have one standard for the Sabres and another for the USA team.

 

And I hope it's bawling their eyes out, and not balling their eyes out. The latter conjures up some really gross imagery.

 

I didn't type "balling." Someone hacked into my account! :oops:

 

I try to maintain one standard when it comes to these things. I really don't get it, for example, when you talk about Drew Stafford or Tim Connolly being so indifferent as to not want to reach out for a pass that's just off the mark. I like to believe that people like that wouldn't make it to the NHL in the first place, let alone stick around. But I could be naive.

[Stoner]

I wanted to throw this one out there: Does this tournament shoot down the idea that Buffalo is a great hockey town? Do that many locals really care?

[spndnchz]

I wanted to throw this one out there: Does this tournament shoot down the idea that Buffalo is a great hockey town? Do that many locals really care?

 

U really didn't watch the game last night did u?

[SwampD]

I wanted to throw this one out there: Does this tournament shoot down the idea that Buffalo is a great hockey town? Do that many locals really care?

If you ignore the border and realize that Buffalo-Toronto is just one big megalopolis, the ratio of fans was pretty much right on.

[Stoner]

U really didn't watch the game last night did u?

 

Not sure what you're driving at.

[spndnchz]

Not sure what you're driving at.

 

Define Hockey Town?

[That Aud Smell]

I wanted to throw this one out there: Does this tournament shoot down the idea that Buffalo is a great hockey town? Do that many locals really care?

 

i think this is a very worthwhile topic of debate.

 

as we were walking toward the train last night, someone in our crew posited an SAT analogy along these lines:

 

IIHF : BUFFALO :: NHL : TAMPA BAY/PHOENIX/NASHVILLE [ETC.]

 

/pauses for blow-back flaming.

 

there's been a great deal of interest invested in the branding of buffalo as a great (elite?) hockey town, but, in view of the 2011 world juniors, we obviously fall well short when compared with any canadian city, large or small.

 

sure we have a proud history of supporting an nhl franchise, but when the world's premier junior tournament came to town, buffalonians were content to have canadians buy 2/3 of all tickets sold. perhaps more telling, canadians out-numbered americans by a ~10-1 margin when canada played the u.s. on american soil in a single-elimination setting.

 

my question is this: what would happen if detroit hosted the world juniors? i wonder if canadian fans would take over detroit in much the same way they did buffalo. i sort of think they would. perhaps not to the same extent, but i think you'd see the same dynamic.

 

fwiw: wikipedia currently projects our tournament attendance at 278k. when the tournament was hosted by north dakota and minnesota in 2005, they had 193k in attendance -- so we're 80k to the better of that (and maybe still counting). still, we have all of southern ontario on which to draw.

[That Aud Smell]

If you ignore the border and realize that Buffalo-Toronto is just one big megalopolis, the ratio of fans was pretty much right on.

 

excellent point.

 

Define Hockey Town?

 

is cheese making a similar one?