Lots of Decisions to be made

[thesportsbuff]

I don't think alot of NHL players want to come to Bflo to live unfortunately so options might be more limited than you think.

 

I think you put too much weight into the idea that professional athletes hate Buffalo. So what, a couple of unjustly egotistical football players criticized the Buffalo night life. By all accounts, most athletes who live here love it. Sure downtown Buffalo is a little run down, but Amherst, Clarence, Getzville, Grand Island etc are beautiful places to live. And like d4rks4bre said, it's all about the money. If you have to shell out an extra half mil a year for a player to choose Buffalo over LA then so be it, do it. Prove to the players that you want to win and more players will want to play for you.

[bob_sauve28]

I beginning to wonder if Buffalo sports fans are afraid of real success. There seems to be a growing number of fans that are happy with mediocrity. Maybe "No Goal" and "Wide Right" have scarred the Buffalo sports fan to the point that they are willing to give up any dream of wining a championship in exchange for never getting there and having their heart broken again.

Yes, I remember hiding under my bed during the '06 playoffs :rolleyes:

[deluca67]

Yes, I remember hiding under my bed during the '06 playoffs :rolleyes:

Look at what has happened since '06. They lose to the Sens. They lose their Captains. The Dick Jouron years.

[bob_sauve28]

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/world-juniors/article293394.ece

 

Well, this is nice

[deluca67]

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/world-juniors/article293394.ece

 

Well, this is nice

People love good stories. How about dad coaching him here in Buffalo in a couple of seasons?

[TheChimp]

More specifically, 6 out of the previous 9 seasons missing the playoffs. I don't give him any credit for Hasek. Darcy is a frigging fraud of a GM. I hate everything about this piece of dry stool, right down to his sissy name.

 

Rivet, Connolly, Lalime, Grier, Niedermayer...gone. End of debate on this thread regarding these 5 has-beens and never-weres. That's $11.15 million down the drain this season. Frigging unbelievable.

 

Montador, McCormick...offer them 2 year contracts at market value. If they take them? Great. If not? Oh well.

 

Sekera, Butler, Weber, Stafford, Gerbe...tender them contracts. If other teams want them, go ahead and take the draft pick compensation. But all 5 are still young, and I also kind of wonder how much Lindsay Ruff is to blame for their stalled developments.

Please post more often. :clapping:

[PotentPowerPlay22]

se

Now that I've come to terms with the fact that this season is lost, it's time to start looking at next year. And oh, boy are there some decisions to be made! At the forefront is the opportunity for new ownership to either replace or extend Regier and Ruff, but since the discussion whether to keep/fire these two has pretty much dominated the board lately, I'd like to keep this thread more focused on the team roster itself.

 

First, let's look at the Sabres eligible to become Free Agents this July:

 

Tim Connolly (UFA) - 4.5 cap hit

Mike Grier (UFA) - 1.4 cap hit

Rob Neidermayer (UFA) - 1.15 cap hit

Cody McCormick (UFA) - .500 cap hit

Craig Rivet (UFA) - 3.5 cap hit

Steve Montador (UFA) - 1.55 cap hit

Patrick Lalime (UFA) - .600 cap hit

Drew Stafford (RFA) - 1.9 cap hit

Nathan Gerbe (RFA) - .850 cap hit

Andrej Sekera (RFA) - 1.0 cap hit

Chris Butler (RFA) - .850 cap hit

Mike Weber (RFA) - .550 cap hit

 

 

So, following the rules of addition by subtraction, this team would improve substantially simply by letting the majority of these players walk. Buffalo's version of a "veteran presence" will be gone with Grier, Niedermayer, Rivet and Lalime likely done in Buffalo. Much to the delight of my fellow SabreSpace brethren, Connolly will certainly not be a Sabre next season -- but the more likely scenario is that he'll be wearing a different uniform this March, now that the Sabres can safely plan on being sellers at the deadline. The only UFAs I would consider keeping are Montador and McCormick, though I wouldn't be upset if either was let go as well.

 

As for RFAs: Sekera, Butler, and Weber may all be worth keeping, but again, the likely scenario sees at least one of them being dealt at either the deadline or the draft. I can't see Stafford or Gerbe in Sabres uniforms next year either.

 

So what an opportunity. If Pegula takes over, regardless of whether he chooses to fire Regier or not, he'll have an immediate opportunity to give the roster a complete facelift. Let's talk trades:

 

Come deadline time, teams will be looking at players like Connolly, Stafford, Sekera, either for some depth scoring or some PP help. Connolly and Stafford are virtual no brainers -- trade each for a pick at the deadline and call it a done deal, ending the commitment and severing all ties with these two. Sekera I would like to keep, but he can be had for the right price. The goal is to stock pile draft picks.

 

Next up? Ryan Miller. There's not many teams in this league that wouldn't inquire about Miller if he were shopped around. And, even more importantly, I'd be willing to bet we could find a fair amount of suitors willing to take on Pominville's contract along with Miller in exchange for a package of picks (including a Top 10) or a high-end forward. Better yet, SOMEONE out there might be open to trading away a superstar forward for Miller & Vanek. It's all just a matter of what kind of changes new management will want to make -- if they decide to move Miller, it can be done.

 

Next season might end up being a dreaded "rebuilding" year, but I'm excited about the possibility of October 2011's opening night roster lacking Connolly, Stafford, Grier, Neids, Rivet, Lalime, Gerbe, Pommer/Vanek, and Miller. Imagine the chance to rebuild, this time around Roy, Myers, Ennis, and whatever free agents Santa Clause brings us on July 1st, with that extra $20-25 million in cap space.

 

The possibilities have me drooling.

 

I have to agree with almost everything you have written. This is a great opportunity to start the housecleaning. Hopefully Pegula buys the team and cleans house because these guys are weak.

 

Wouldn't you rather have four 1st rounders from Edmonton for Vanek now? The worst missed opportunity in Sabres history IMO. In addition, they could have signed three good free agents for the money Vanek got and I bet they would have produced much more than Vanek has to this point. I guess the pressure of four 1st rounders plus their own 1st rounders was too intimidating for Larry Quinn to contemplate after he screwed up the Briere and Drury contracts.

[waldo]

Everyone should be considered tradable with maybe Myers being an exception....I'd look at the Devils as possible trading partners....

 

No Exceptions.

[Fire Lindy Ruff NOW]

I think you put too much weight into the idea that professional athletes hate Buffalo. So what, a couple of unjustly egotistical football players criticized the Buffalo night life. By all accounts, most athletes who live here love it. Sure downtown Buffalo is a little run down, but Amherst, Clarence, Getzville, Grand Island etc are beautiful places to live. And like d4rks4bre said, it's all about the money. If you have to shell out an extra half mil a year for a player to choose Buffalo over LA then so be it, do it. Prove to the players that you want to win and more players will want to play for you.

pro hockey players definately hate buffalo. there was an article in the hockeys news i believe in 2007 and it was a players poll. anyway the poll was where is the worst city to play hockey in? the 2 bottom answers were edmonton and buffalo.

[waldo]

se

 

I have to agree with almost everything you have written. This is a great opportunity to start the housecleaning. Hopefully Pegula buys the team and cleans house because these guys are weak.

 

Wouldn't you rather have four 1st rounders from Edmonton for Vanek now? The worst missed opportunity in Sabres history IMO. In addition, they could have signed three good free agents for the money Vanek got and I bet they would have produced much more than Vanek has to this point. I guess the pressure of four 1st rounders plus their own 1st rounders was too intimidating for Larry Quinn to contemplate after he screwed up the Briere and Drury contracts.

 

Edmonton is going to give you four first rounders? Can i get some of those drugs ? Do you happen to be related to Darcy or Quinn? If they did not sign Vanek they would have taken the money and acquired four or five more Rivets, Griers, Torres and Neidermeyers or a couple of Conelly's. Then they would have drafted four first rounders that would be in development for the next decade or two and never make it out of the AHL.

[carpandean]

Edmonton is going to give you four first rounders? Can i get some of those drugs ?

They would have had to had the Sabres not matched Edmonton's offer sheet for Vanek. They are mandated compensatory picks based on the cap hit of the offer sheet.

[waldo]

They would have had to had the Sabres not matched Edmonton's offer sheet for Vanek. They are mandated compensatory picks based on the cap hit of the offer sheet.

 

Sorry to PP2,I misunderstood and apologize..I thought you were once again proposing to trade him now for first round picks. .In hindsight, the way the Sabres drafted and developed players under Quinn my answer would be to sign Vanek and leave the first round picks on the table. They were correct in signing him the first time. They would have only wasted the picks.

[nfreeman]

For the record, whoever is GM next year will not trade Miller or Vanek, and no GM in the NHL would do so.

[Marvelo]

pro hockey players definately hate buffalo. there was an article in the hockeys news i believe in 2007 and it was a players poll. anyway the poll was where is the worst city to play hockey in? the 2 bottom answers were edmonton and buffalo.

 

I think this factor is underrated. If you don't like a city, you won't be happy there. If you're not happy, you don't play well. Only certain types "get" Buffalo and would be to happy here. I hope they acquire those types, as opposed to the mercenaries they have now.

[thesportsbuff]

For the record, whoever is GM next year will not trade Miller or Vanek, and no GM in the NHL would do so.

 

Seriously? Agree to disagree I guess, but IMO most GM's would probably be searching night and day for a partner to trade Vanek's contract to. Why wouldn't a GM want to trade away a vastly overrated floater who sucks up 10% of the salary cap by himself? I think the problem is going to be finding a suitor, which I guess makes your statement correct that whoever is GM "will not" trade Vanek, but not necessarily by choice.

 

I can see why everyone has Miller listed as "untouchable" but I don't think he's the answer. We had Hasek, one of the BEST OF ALL TIME, for several years.. and it culminated in a finals appearance and a couple early round exits. History repeats itself. If the GM is serious about making changes and serious about winning a cup he has to strongly consider trading Miller. He would obviously bring the best return, and could easily be packed WITH Vanek or Pommer to help us move their contracts.

 

If the GM isn't serious about winning the cup, then, well... he will keep Miller, assert that Vanek and Pommer are integral pieces of the team's non-existent success (either because he truly believes it or because he was unable to trade their contracts), groom a few high draft picks we get from finishing bottom 10 the next 2 or 3 years, and by the time the team is developed enough to make a serious cup run -- headed by Ennis, Kassian, maybe Foligno? -- we'll have a 36 year old Ryan Miller on the verge of retirement struggling to keep pace with the game and allowing 4 weak goals per game rather than his usual 2 weak goals per game. This will likely culminate in a possible finals appearance followed by several first round exits.

[nfreeman]

 

Seriously? Agree to disagree I guess, but IMO most GM's would probably be searching night and day for a partner to trade Vanek's contract to. Why wouldn't a GM want to trade away a vastly overrated floater who sucks up 10% of the salary cap by himself? I think the problem is going to be finding a suitor, which I guess makes your statement correct that whoever is GM "will not" trade Vanek, but not necessarily by choice.

 

I can see why everyone has Miller listed as "untouchable" but I don't think he's the answer. We had Hasek, one of the BEST OF ALL TIME, for several years.. and it culminated in a finals appearance and a couple early round exits. History repeats itself. If the GM is serious about making changes and serious about winning a cup he has to strongly consider trading Miller. He would obviously bring the best return, and could easily be packed WITH Vanek or Pommer to help us move their contracts.

 

If the GM isn't serious about winning the cup, then, well... he will keep Miller, assert that Vanek and Pommer are integral pieces of the team's non-existent success (either because he truly believes it or because he was unable to trade their contracts), groom a few high draft picks we get from finishing bottom 10 the next 2 or 3 years, and by the time the team is developed enough to make a serious cup run -- headed by Ennis, Kassian, maybe Foligno? -- we'll have a 36 year old Ryan Miller on the verge of retirement struggling to keep pace with the game and allowing 4 weak goals per game rather than his usual 2 weak goals per game. This will likely culminate in a possible finals appearance followed by several first round exits.

When was the last time a goalie of Miller's caliber was traded? It was Luongo, in 2006, when Tampa was still a bush league organization -- and they still haven't recovered.

 

When was the last time a 2-time 40-goal scorer was traded? Other than guys like Heatley or Kovy, who forced their way out? Just a trade by a GM in the effort to improve the team?

 

Those players are sufficiently rare that a GM doesn't trade them when he has them.

 

Also, Pommer doesn't belong in the discussion with Vanek and Miller. He is a decent player who was in the right place at the right time and struck it rich. He has reached 30 goals once in a 6-year NHL career and will never sniff 30 again (and as disappointed as I am in Vanek, I expect him to reach 40 several more times in his career). Any GM in the NHL would dump Pommer's contract in a heartbeat if he could.

[thesportsbuff]

When was the last time a goalie of Miller's caliber was traded? It was Luongo, in 2006, when Tampa was still a bush league organization -- and they still haven't recovered.

 

When was the last time a 2-time 40-goal scorer was traded? Other than guys like Heatley or Kovy, who forced their way out? Just a trade by a GM in the effort to improve the team?

 

Those players are sufficiently rare that a GM doesn't trade them when he has them.

 

Also, Pommer doesn't belong in the discussion with Vanek and Miller. He is a decent player who was in the right place at the right time and struck it rich. He has reached 30 goals once in a 6-year NHL career and will never sniff 30 again (and as disappointed as I am in Vanek, I expect him to reach 40 several more times in his career). Any GM in the NHL would dump Pommer's contract in a heartbeat if he could.

 

I know you meant Florida, but come on, Florida wasn't any good even with Luongo, and trading him helped them more than it hurt them for the same reasons trading Miller would help us more than it hurt us. There is simply no point in signing a Luongo or Miller for that type of money when your team isn't close to competing for a cup. The difference is Miller still has a decent term on his contract and would actually fetch some return. And, for the record, Florida right now without Luongo is better than Buffalo with Miller. Go figure.

 

As for trading 40 goal scorers, I can't recall any in recent history, but that doesn't it mean it can't or shouldn't be done. He's not worth the money. You don't pay a guy $7+ mil a year to score 40 goals once every three or four years and until Vanek proves that he can do it on a more consistent basis we're just wasting our money and his value. I don't know much about prospects coming up, but if we could trade Vanek and Miller and fetch a couple first rounders and land a top-tier prospect who we can build around -- another Tyler Myers-esque player, but a forward -- it would be well worth it.

 

As for your comments on Pominville, I don't get why you included them. They basically echo my sentiment that the only way we're going to move Pommer would be to package him with Miller. Otherwise a there's no way a team would trade for him. There's NO better way to rebuild this team than to move our big money contracts and the only way to do that could be moving them w/ Miller.

[bunomatic]

I think this factor is underrated. If you don't like a city, you won't be happy there. If you're not happy, you don't play well. Only certain types "get" Buffalo and would be to happy here. I hope they acquire those types, as opposed to the mercenaries they have now.

Why is it that if so many hockey players hate Buffalo why do so many retire back to the area. It must have something that brings them back. Even a city like Vancouver which is said to be one of the most desirable to play and live isn't perfect. The downtown eastside is the poorest neighborhood in Canada and the gang murders are at times off the charts but people tend to overlook that because of the climate and the scenery and the great fan support.

[carpandean]

You don't pay a guy $7+ mil a year to score 40 goals once every three or four years and until Vanek proves that he can do it on a more consistent basis we're just wasting our money and his value.

Not to nitpick, but the Sabres are paying him $6.4 million per year. Until and unless they bump up against the cap, the $7.14 million cap number doesn't mean much.

[thesportsbuff]

Not to nitpick, but the Sabres are paying him $6.4 million per year. Until and unless they bump up against the cap, the $7.14 million cap number doesn't mean much.

 

Whatever, $7.14 is the cap hit and that's the number that matters. If you're gonna play that game then I guess until and unless we bump up against the cap, Connolly's 4.5 mil is justifyable, right? And Pommer's 5+? Since it only matters when we're up against the cap?

[carpandean]

Whatever, $7.14 is the cap hit and that's the number that matters. If you're gonna play that game then I guess until and unless we bump up against the cap, Connolly's 4.5 mil is justifyable, right? And Pommer's 5+? Since it only matters when we're up against the cap?

Depends how the person who owns the team feels about spending money. The real dollars going out are $6.4 million for Vanek, $4.5 million for Connolly, and $5.5 million for Pominville. Their cap hits do, in fact, only matter when the team is near the cap, as it limits moves, including acquisitions, injury (non-LTIR) call-ups, etc., but they are not actual dollars (could just as easily call them cap "points" if you wanted.) We all hope that the new owner will come in with an open wallet, making only the cap hit matter, but we don't know for sure that's what will happen. So, until and unless it does, the actual salary spent is what matters. Now, if you want to trade him away, then the number that matters will depend on the potential trade partner. For a team that operates near the cap (Rangers, Flyers, etc.), then the cap hit will matter, but for one of the many teams that have self-imposed budgets, the salary is what matters.

[Oakstream]

Am I the only one who think that Darcy believes that this teams core still is "maturing" and we are only "some minor tweaks away from being a contender?". Either that, or that we are a "contender" but injurys prevented us from hoisting the cup... -_-

[Patty16]

im not sure how this team is better by simply letting that many guys "walk". Who are you going to replace them with?

[nfreeman]

I know you meant Florida, but come on, Florida wasn't any good even with Luongo, and trading him helped them more than it hurt them for the same reasons trading Miller would help us more than it hurt us. There is simply no point in signing a Luongo or Miller for that type of money when your team isn't close to competing for a cup. The difference is Miller still has a decent term on his contract and would actually fetch some return. And, for the record, Florida right now without Luongo is better than Buffalo with Miller. Go figure.

 

As for trading 40 goal scorers, I can't recall any in recent history, but that doesn't it mean it can't or shouldn't be done. He's not worth the money. You don't pay a guy $7+ mil a year to score 40 goals once every three or four years and until Vanek proves that he can do it on a more consistent basis we're just wasting our money and his value. I don't know much about prospects coming up, but if we could trade Vanek and Miller and fetch a couple first rounders and land a top-tier prospect who we can build around -- another Tyler Myers-esque player, but a forward -- it would be well worth it.

 

As for your comments on Pominville, I don't get why you included them. They basically echo my sentiment that the only way we're going to move Pommer would be to package him with Miller. Otherwise a there's no way a team would trade for him. There's NO better way to rebuild this team than to move our big money contracts and the only way to do that could be moving them w/ Miller.

Come on where? No rational analysis of the Luongo trade can conclude that the Panthers were helped in any way by that trade. They got Bertuzzi, Auld and a journeyman defenseman in exchange for a top-5 goalie. They didn't save much money because Bertuzzi was making over $5MM per year. Most importantly, they didn't improve at all as a team. While you're right that they are better than the Sabres this year, this is the first year in forever that they've been decent, it has nothing to do with the Luongo trade, and they would certainly be a better team right now with Luongo.

 

If we could get Stamkos for Miller? Sure, pull the trigger. But that's not going to happen. Bottom line is that the Sabres wouldn't get anywhere near equal value for Miller. Trading him for first-round picks would be a terrible move (and, again, there's a reason you don't see NHL GMs making this kind of move). After the first couple of picks in each draft, the NHL draft is a crapshoot. Would you be happy if the Sabres ended up with Artem Kriukov or Joel Savage or Dan Paille or any other of a dozen first-round washouts in exchange for Miller? The same goes for Vanek.

 

As for Pommer, I misinterpreted your comments on him. I agree that the only way to dump his contract is by bribing another team to take it off of the Sabres' hands.

[Oakstream]

Come on where? No rational analysis of the Luongo trade can conclude that the Panthers were helped in any way by that trade. They got Bertuzzi, Auld and a journeyman defenseman in exchange for a top-5 goalie. They didn't save much money because Bertuzzi was making over $5MM per year. Most importantly, they didn't improve at all as a team. While you're right that they are better than the Sabres this year, this is the first year in forever that they've been decent, it has nothing to do with the Luongo trade, and they would certainly be a better team right now with Luongo.

 

If we could get Stamkos for Miller? Sure, pull the trigger. But that's not going to happen. Bottom line is that the Sabres wouldn't get anywhere near equal value for Miller. Trading him for first-round picks would be a terrible move (and, again, there's a reason you don't see NHL GMs making this kind of move). After the first couple of picks in each draft, the NHL draft is a crapshoot. Would you be happy if the Sabres ended up with Artem Kriukov or Joel Savage or Dan Paille or any other of a dozen first-round washouts in exchange for Miller? The same goes for Vanek.

 

As for Pommer, I misinterpreted your comments on him. I agree that the only way to dump his contract is by bribing another team to take it off of the Sabres' hands.

 

While you make some great points, Im not sure Panthers would be better off with Loungo this season. Vokoun is better IMO, and one of the leagues most underrated players.