Nathan Gerbe

[Weave]

I still think the posters griping the most about Gerbe are the ones who thought he was some sort of savior.

 

You are wrong in my case. I'm not exactly griping about him but I still don't think he's ever going to make a meaningful contribution in the NHL. And I've thought that way since last season.

[BuffaTB]

Again, this is Gerbe's first year. We dont have NEARLY the same team that we did than when Vanek was a rookie, enabling him to shine on the 3rd line with Roysie and Max/Drew all season. Your stats mean diddly to me. I personally dont see hussle out of vanek every shift as i do out of gerbe, but i guess thats just me.

[BuffaTB]

Myers is here to defend, he's a negative on the season, so since he isn't defending well, let's just get rid of him too huh..??

[nfreeman]

No problems with Gerbe's game.. he's been on the top line and has produced chances. He hasn't scored consistently but Roy and Vanek have been getting opportunity after opportunity, too.

I seem to recall things a little differently. I know we all like to point the finger at Lindy Ruff for randomly juggling his lines, but the Ennis/Vanek/Roy line was struggling to produce for several games, thus why he switched him and Gerbe to begin with. It didn't just come to him in a dream.

 

As always, generous to a fault. It's not that he hasn't scored "consistently," it's that he hasn't scored AT ALL. I think he looks a little better lately, but still -- his NHL career is going to be a short one if he can't produce substantially more offense than he's producing now.

 

I do agree though that Ennis got bounced off of that line because the line wasn't producing and Ennis was playing like Max redux.

 

I still think the posters griping the most about Gerbe are the ones who thought he was some sort of savior.

I was hoping he was a savior -- the Sabres need a savior, or really any kind of electric presence on offense who brings it every night -- but I'm not ready to dump him yet. This team's problems are appropriately blamed on the top 6 (and on the management team that put this top 6 forward group together and stuck with it), not on a rookie forward.

 

Agreed. This 'kid' needs time to develop just like everyone else.

+1

 

Gerbe: no goals and five assists in 20 games and a total of 2 goals in 40 career NHL games.

 

Vanek: 25 points in 30 games and 18 points in his last 15 games.

 

Vanek's playing much better, much harder, skating better, this year unlike any I've seen.

 

There's no way you can compare Vanek to Gerbe.

 

BTW, Gerbe's not here to hit guys in the corners. He's here to SCORE.

I agree that there's no comparison, and that Vanek's been bringing it more often lately. But I also think he's still too inconsistent. He barely showed up against Pittsburgh.

 

Again, this is Gerbe's first year. We dont have NEARLY the same team that we did than when Vanek was a rookie, enabling him to shine on the 3rd line with Roysie and Max/Drew all season. Your stats mean diddly to me. I personally dont see hussle out of vanek every shift as i do out of gerbe, but i guess thats just me.

I agree with most of this, but Stafford wasn't around during Vanek's rookie year.

 

Myers is here to defend, he's a negative on the season, so since he isn't defending well, let's just get rid of him too huh..??

This was kind of obnoxious. Give us the hockey comments, which are good, but tone it down a bit.

[shoveldog]

Gerbe is one of the VERY few players that does go into the corners and is more than willing to do the dirty work when necessary. Do we not remember last game against the Bruins when he tried hitting Chara? How many of our forwards are willing to even try to do that? I'd assume before the season started that Gerbe wasn't supposed to be depended on to score on the first line. Due to injuries, he's there now. Not excelling, but I'd say playing solid for a 5'6" essential rookie. Playing hard every single game, unlike a player i can think of getting $7 million a season. So to sum it up, this topic is :garbage:

 

Is that you Mrs. Gerbe?

[BuffaTB]

I absolutely apologize for being obnoxious, its just we lose 1 game, to arguably the best team in the league and then suddenly gerbe needs to be off the team?? Like ive read, we had 7 out of 8 points before that. I'm just sick of people, more specifically the organization's history of not giving our prospects a fair chance and i would hate to see him demoted. Sekera struggled quite terribly earlier in the season and is now shaping up to look like a Brian Campbell look-alike to me (minus the spin-o-rama of course).

 

And i took this whole thing personally because ive been waiting for years for us to give a chance to players like mancari and more specifically gragnani to see what they can do, instead of sending them to the minors for 4+ years, only for them to more than likely disappear into oblivion. On top of it, we add veteran bums such as Craig Rivet and Rob Niedermayer, sign Connolly, Hecht, and even Stafford one could agrue to egregious contracts for...

 

I just very much hope i get to see gerbe mature in buffalo is all. Ennis has REALLY been struggling the past 12 or so games overall, so who the heck else can we put on that first line??

 

Once again, my sincere apologies.

[shrader]

I do agree though that Ennis got bounced off of that line because the line wasn't producing and Ennis was playing like Max redux.

 

He got bounced from that line when Stuart was called up and they needed to redistribute the wealth a bit. Ennis had gone 3 games without a point at that point, but Vanek was in the heart of a 7 game point streak and Roy had just ended one of his own. That line was working. Unfortunately, injuries causes a shakeup.

[Taro T]

I absolutely apologize for being obnoxious, its just we lose 1 game, to arguably the best team in the league and then suddenly gerbe needs to be off the team?? Like ive read, we had 7 out of 8 points before that. I'm just sick of people, more specifically the organization's history of not giving our prospects a fair chance and i would hate to see him demoted. Sekera struggled quite terribly earlier in the season and is now shaping up to look like a Brian Campbell look-alike to me (minus the spin-o-rama of course).

 

And i took this whole thing personally because ive been waiting for years for us to give a chance to players like mancari and more specifically gragnani to see what they can do, instead of sending them to the minors for 4+ years, only for them to more than likely disappear into oblivion. On top of it, we add veteran bums such as Craig Rivet and Rob Niedermayer, sign Connolly, Hecht, and even Stafford one could agrue to egregious contracts for...

 

I just very much hope i get to see gerbe mature in buffalo is all. Ennis has REALLY been struggling the past 12 or so games overall, so who the heck else can we put on that first line??

 

Once again, my sincere apologies.

I'm sorry, I don't see where the organization hasn't given the team's prospects fair chances. If anything, the organization has stood too firmly behind their prospects. There are a lot of young guys through the years that have been brought up and kept until it was obvious that they would not mature into the players that they were drafted to be.

 

You even bring up an example of a young kid that I fully expect to be a solid (if not very good) NHLer that an argument could be made that he might be getting more of a chance than he has earned to date.

 

Mancari and Gragnani have good AHL stats, and they have been up w/ the big club for a few games here & there. If they impressed anyone in those stints, they'd be in the NHL (either Buffalo or elsewhere). Unfortunately for them, they look to be classic tweeners. Real good at the AHL level, but not quite good enough to compete in the stronger NHL.

 

Also unfortunately for Gragnani, the Sabres have 4 young guys ahead of him on the depth chart. If anybody else in the NHL wanted him, he'd probably be one the Sabres would consider moving. They aren't going to play 5 young guys on the blue line at the same time unless there is a desperate situation.

 

The team used to bring young guys up before they were ready and it had a detrimental effect on their development. (Jason Dawe, Mike Wilson just to name 2 ottomh.) IMHO, I think they are doing a decent job of developing the young guys.

 

Getting back to Gerbe, he's in a bit of a tough spot. If he makes it in the NHL, it'll be as a 1 or (more likely) 2 winger. When the team is healthy, he won't get much time up there and he is too small to really get a regular shift on an 'energy' line. He needs to take advantage of this current opportunity w/ the 1's to be able to stay as a 2 when they're healthy. And honestly, I don't like his fit on either of Buffalo's top 2 lines because of the size (and temperament) of the current top 6. I think he might end up a useful NHLer, but it very likely would be with another team that has larger scoring forwards. He'd probably fit in well on Filly, Boston, or the Snarks; but may be a bit too much of 'column A' to gel here. Of course, if he'd focus on being a specialist (like Briere was when he came up to the Yotes), then he might find a spot as a 4th liner that doesn't take many regular shifts but gets out for the pp; in a year or 2 (especially if the makeup of the top 6 is made over) maybe he fits regularly onto a 2nd line. (In order to get that chance as a pp specialist he has to start scoring there.)

[X. Benedict]

He got bounced from that line when Stuart was called up and they needed to redistribute the wealth a bit. Ennis had gone 3 games without a point at that point, but Vanek was in the heart of a 7 game point streak and Roy had just ended one of his own. That line was working. Unfortunately, injuries causes a shakeup.

 

That's how I read it. I think Ennis was moved off to balance the lines. If a team has only to shut down 1 line it is a pretty easy night.

 

The second line without Connolly -Stafford or Ennis (Okay...I know most of you just cringed) makes Buffalo a pretty one-dimensional team.

[X. Benedict]

 

 

Getting back to Gerbe, he's in a bit of a tough spot. If he makes it in the NHL, it'll be as a 1 or (more likely) 2 winger. When the team is healthy, he won't get much time up there and he is too small to really get a regular shift on an 'energy' line. He needs to take advantage of this current opportunity w/ the 1's to be able to stay as a 2 when they're healthy. And honestly, I don't like his fit on either of Buffalo's top 2 lines because of the size (and temperament) of the current top 6. I think he might end up a useful NHLer, but it very likely would be with another team that has larger scoring forwards. He'd probably fit in well on Filly, Boston, or the Snarks; but may be a bit too much of 'column A' to gel here. Of course, if he'd focus on being a specialist (like Briere was when he came up to the Yotes), then he might find a spot as a 4th liner that doesn't take many regular shifts but gets out for the pp; in a year or 2 (especially if the makeup of the top 6 is made over) maybe he fits regularly onto a 2nd line. (In order to get that chance as a pp specialist he has to start scoring there.)

 

Agree. Gerbe to be of value has to score. There is a dairy section sell-by date stamped on head.

[Stoner]

Agree. Gerbe to be of value has to score. There is a dairy section sell-by date stamped on head.

 

Baby food expires?

 

Sorry...

[spndnchz]

That's how I read it. I think Ennis was moved off to balance the lines. If a team has only to shut down 1 line it is a pretty easy night.

 

The second line without Connolly -Stafford or Ennis (Okay...I know most of you just cringed) makes Buffalo a pretty one-dimensional team.

 

Stafford and Connolly are due to be back for Wednesday's game, with Nieds close behind.

[Hawerchuk]

Still too early to tell about Gerbe, but I think we all agree that he needs to start getting in the "goal" column and like soon.

[waldo]

"I agree that there's no comparison, and that Vanek's been bringing it more often lately. But I also think he's still too inconsistent. He barely showed up against Pittsburgh."

 

You want him to play hard on D, because that is where most of his time was spent in that game, in his own defensive zone waiting for an outlet pass, or between the blue lines playing with Pitts 3rd period trap. When in the O zone he probably got cross checked, tripped,held and interferred with 10+ times without the puck. On the power play he gets leveled when his teamates on the point are thinking about winding up to shoot. He takes his beatings in the offensive zone every game. Can you imagine what the out cry would be if that was happening to Crosby every game? I am willing to give him a break on the hustle thing, he knows when to go. Put him in the offensive zone with the puck or on the power play and he wakes right up. It is not like he is not giving his linemates multiple chances to score each game. I know ,just another country heard from :wallbash:

 

"I agree with most of this, but Stafford wasn't around during Vanek's rookie year."

He is still not around! :unsure:

 

 

This was kind of obnoxious. Give us the hockey comments, which are good, but tone it down a bit.

 

+1

[waldo]

Still too early to tell about Gerbe, but I think we all agree that he needs to start getting in the "goal" column and like soon.

 

Small players can sometimes need a little more time to find their games at this level. I wonder what Briere ,Chris's and the Saint's rookie years looked like. Now that i said that, they were probably great.right? :rolleyes:

[IKnowPhysics]

Are we talking about the 23 year old 2008 NCAA Championship hero (5 goals/2 games in the college big show, named Most Outstanding Player) Hobey Baker Award finalist who had 5 points in 10 games with the Sabres last year that we got at a steal with the 142nd pick and just burns up our cap space at $850k/year?

 

Let the kid develop. He's not the worst player on the team and he's nowhere near the worst value. He's got more potential than Mark Mancari and Cody McCormick combined.

[shrader]

Small players can sometimes need a little more time to find their games at this level. I wonder what Briere ,Chris's and the Saint's rookie years looked like. Now that i said that, they were probably great.right? :rolleyes:

 

And they might as well be a foot taller than Gerbe, so let's not go throwing him in their category.

[IKnowPhysics]

Amirite?

[X. Benedict]

Are we talking about the 23 year old 2008 NCAA Championship hero (5 goals/2 games in the college big show, named Most Outstanding Player) Hobey Baker Award finalist who had 5 points in 10 games with the Sabres last year that we got at a steal with the 142nd pick and just burns up our cap space at $850k/year?

 

Let the kid develop. He's not the worst player on the team and he's nowhere near the worst value. He's got more potential than Mark Mancari and Cody McCormick combined.

 

In the NCAA and in the AHL he could always sneak that wrister around defensemen who wouldn't play him straight up, and he would catch them leaning to get his shot off.

 

NHL defensemen don't let that happen, so he needs to adjust.

 

On the plus side. He really isn't a bad forechecker and he is so low, it is hard for opponents to get him off the puck once he has it. It's like trying to take a basketball away from Mugsy Bogues.

[billsrcursed]

Are we talking about the 23 year old 2008 NCAA Championship hero (5 goals/2 games in the college big show, named Most Outstanding Player) Hobey Baker Award finalist who had 5 points in 10 games with the Sabres last year that we got at a steal with the 142nd pick and just burns up our cap space at $850k/year?

 

Let the kid develop. He's not the worst player on the team and he's nowhere near the worst value. He's got more potential than Mark Mancari and Cody McCormick combined.

 

Really? Based on what, exactly??

[inkman]

Are we talking about the 23 year old 2008 NCAA Championship hero (5 goals/2 games in the college big show, named Most Outstanding Player) Hobey Baker Award finalist who had 5 points in 10 games with the Sabres last year that we got at a steal with the 142nd pick and just burns up our cap space at $850k/year?

 

Let the kid develop. He's not the worst player on the team and he's nowhere near the worst value. He's got more potential than Mark Mancari and Cody McCormick combined.

...and there it is. It's this type of analysis that has people thinking he's something he's not. The AHL is littered with College Hockey Heros and Hobey Baker Finalists. All speed no hands Holzinger won the freakin thing.

 

The reason the Sabres "stole" him in the draft is because he's in the 5'4" - 5'5" department. He's the height of your average 12 year old. Ever been matched up against a twelve year old? The phrase men among boys or in this case boy among men comes to mind.

 

Lastly, let's not bring McCormick into this discussion at all. He's 8 inches taller, a good hitter, a more than willing fighter and know when to stand up for his teammates. Not to mention, his offense isn't all that offensive.

 

I'm not rooting against Nathan, he might make it in the league. As other posters have said, on a team lacking size or toughness in it's top 6, there really isn't room for another midget.

[rbochan]

"When Kris Versteeg is bullying you off the puck you might be too small for the NHL."

[shrader]

"When Kris Versteeg is bullying you off the puck you might be too small for the NHL."

 

That was hilarious. You could almost read Versteeg's thoughts there. He was shocked that he finally wasn't the smallest on the ice and decided to have some fun.

 

And as for the Frozen Four most outstanding player and Hobey finalist (there's 10 a year, by the way), like Inky said, I can run off a long list of those players who never amounted to anything. It's just like how the Heisman doesn't always translate to the NFL. It's a completely different world out there in the big leagues. Those lead-footed defensemen at Merrimack that Gerbe routinely skated circles around? They still exist, except now they're 5 times as fast and about twice the size... and better yet, they actually know how to position themselves now.

[nfreeman]

"I agree that there's no comparison, and that Vanek's been bringing it more often lately. But I also think he's still too inconsistent. He barely showed up against Pittsburgh."

 

You want him to play hard on D, because that is where most of his time was spent in that game, in his own defensive zone waiting for an outlet pass, or between the blue lines playing with Pitts 3rd period trap. When in the O zone he probably got cross checked, tripped,held and interferred with 10+ times without the puck. On the power play he gets leveled when his teamates on the point are thinking about winding up to shoot. He takes his beatings in the offensive zone every game. Can you imagine what the out cry would be if that was happening to Crosby every game? I am willing to give him a break on the hustle thing, he knows when to go. Put him in the offensive zone with the puck or on the power play and he wakes right up. It is not like he is not giving his linemates multiple chances to score each game. I know ,just another country heard from :wallbash:

I think Vanek's been doing a reasonable job on the backcheck. I actually think he doesn't bring it as often as he needs to on offense. To beat an elite team like Pittsburgh, the Sabres (or any opponent) need to forecheck like crazy -- esp. on the PP -- and cash the opportunities that pop up. I didn't see Vanek (or Roy) doing so in that game, and in far too many in his career.

 

Vanek's good enough to score 40-50 every year. The reason he doesn't do so is inside him and him only.

 

Are we talking about the 23 year old 2008 NCAA Championship hero (5 goals/2 games in the college big show, named Most Outstanding Player) Hobey Baker Award finalist who had 5 points in 10 games with the Sabres last year that we got at a steal with the 142nd pick and just burns up our cap space at $850k/year?

 

Let the kid develop. He's not the worst player on the team and he's nowhere near the worst value. He's got more potential than Mark Mancari and Cody McCormick combined.

I agree with letting him develop, and I'm not willing to entirely ignore his college achievement -- it speaks to an ability to produce in crunch time. However, he needs to produce offense, and he hasn't been doing so.

 

McCormick has added quite a bit more value to the team this year than Gerbe has.

 

On the plus side. He really isn't a bad forechecker and he is so low, it is hard for opponents to get him off the puck once he has it. It's like trying to take a basketball away from Mugsy Bogues.

Good call.

[Stoner]

That was hilarious. You could almost read Versteeg's thoughts there. He was shocked that he finally wasn't the smallest on the ice and decided to have some fun.

 

And as for the Frozen Four most outstanding player and Hobey finalist (there's 10 a year, by the way), like Inky said, I can run off a long list of those players who never amounted to anything. It's just like how the Heisman doesn't always translate to the NFL. It's a completely different world out there in the big leagues. Those lead-footed defensemen at Merrimack that Gerbe routinely skated circles around? They still exist, except now they're 5 times as fast and about twice the size... and better yet, they actually know how to position themselves now.

 

I just read that there are 10 candidates and three finalists. That was for 2010.

 

Only one of the four criteria involves skill -- and there's online fan balloting. I wish I hadn't read that, because I used to think the award meant something.

 

By the way, the Sabres have two former winners. And they are...