Hahaha! Torres has 6 goals so far for Vancouver

[shrader]

This thread must die.

 

If only someone had some sort of magical power to close threads.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Rather have Bernier, or Pyatt or what's his name... :yawn:

 

And somewhere in the hinterlands of Nova Scotia, at 2 AM on Thursday morning, little Billy blew past his bedtime with neary a worry. For he was involved in the rockin'est, most epic battle of X-box Live Guitar Hero seen in all the land. Billy1999 vs Staf69Timberlake was truly one for the ages. Yet even in defeat this frigid dawn, to a child half his age, nothing would take away the inner glory our hero had experienced just hours earlier.

[RazielSabre]

Rather have Bernier, or Pyatt or what's his name... :yawn:

 

Pyatt, ok Bernier I dont know but freaking Pyatt? Is the grass really so lacking in green over here that PYATT is preferable? This I dont buy with all due respect.

[spndnchz]

Pyatt, ok Bernier I dont know but freaking Pyatt? Is the grass really so lacking in green over here that PYATT is preferable? This I dont buy with all due respect.

 

So u caught the sarcasm?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Pyatt, ok Bernier I dont know but freaking Pyatt? Is the grass really so lacking in green over here that PYATT is preferable? This I dont buy with all due respect.

 

Pyatt was a 6'4" 230lb forward who came to life in the playoffs against Carolina and was let go at 24, just as he was filling out his frame. He has not had a minus season since leaving the Sabres and has averaged 16 goals a year while being able to play a solid roll on 2 teams that weren't in the playoffs before he got there, but became top teams in the conference after he got there. He would be 3rd in hits on the Sabres the past 2 years

 

Bernier was a 6'3" 225lb forward who was given up on at 23. He has averaged 15 goals a year and this is the only year of 5 not in buffalo where he is not a plus player. He is 25 years old and would have been 4th in hits on Buffalo since last year.

 

In the 5 years Pyatt has been gone:

 

Pyatt, 68 goals 58 assists +32 $1million

 

Grier, 47 goals 62 assists -8 $1.2 million

Niedermeyer, 37 goals 44 assists -24 $1.15 million

Gaustad, 46 goals 72 assists +7 $2.3 milion

Hecht, 77 goals 104 assists +20 $3.52 million

Stafford, 71 goals 86 assists +16 $1.9 million

Connolly 48 goals 118 assists +18 $4.5 million

Pominville, 109 goals 177 assists +41 $5.3 million

Roy, 116 goals 199 assists +56 $4 million

Vanek, 160 goals 130 assists +43 $7.1 million

 

Each of those players has been on 2 division winners in that timeframe, except for Grier who had 3.

 

Each of those players was on a President's Trophy winning team, except Pyatt and Niedermeyer.

 

The only player listed with as many hits as Pyatt is Gaustad.

 

 

 

The only 3 who clearly outplay Pyatt of the top 9 forwards are your first line. In the last 5 years, Pyatt has scored more than Connolly while collecting $5 million versus Connolly's $18 million.

 

Guys like Grier and Niedermeyer who have been mentioned as far superior to Pyatt, look like no contest when taking the past 5 years into account...not just this "wall" year.

 

Gaustad, Hecht and Stafford are all debatable, while playing top 9 roles the past 5 years, if not top line roles many times...and while averaging 3x the salary of Pyatt.

 

 

Again, these are your President's Trophy winning, 2 time division champion Buffalo Sabres we are talking about.

 

 

Not to mention the tragic loss Pyatt had to rebound from in the middle of everything.

 

 

Probably the best thing that could have happened to Pyatt was leaving "the system".

[carpandean]

Probably the best thing that could have happened to Pyatt was leaving "the system".

The Sabres left any system that they were using while Pyatt was here.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

The Sabres left any system that they were using while Pyatt was here.

 

Carp...

 

THE SYSTEM lives and breathes to Lindy, Patrick and McCutchen

 

just like

 

THE MARKET breathes to Darcy

 

The players are just emotionless cells of a spreadsheet to these guys. That, I have learned over the past 5 years for sure.

 

I don't understand why Ruff is the coach he is considering how neat of a person he is and the type of player he was. I have wanted him to either go nuts and say he isn't being given the horses from management, or not accept emotionless droning. But he hasn't.....it has almost been encouraged. I don't get it. He's too smart and too raw himself not to see it. The only answer is he fancies himself a teacher...but his students would be better at the junior level the type of game he installs.

[X. Benedict]

Kept a close eye on Bernier last night. I think he's lost a little weight, but I gotta say he's not much of a better skater.

He had one really nice hit in the third and one nice shift when he made it to the crease, otherwise he's normally behind the play and wasn't able to get

to net to be effective. Based on last night, it is hard to say I miss him. I wouldn't mind having Booth though.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Kept a close eye on Bernier last night. I think he's lost a little weight, but I gotta say he's not much of a better skater.

He had one really nice hit in the third and one nice shift when he made it to the crease, otherwise he's normally behind the play and wasn't able to get

to net to be effective. Based on last night, it is hard to say I miss him. I wouldn't mind having Booth though.

 

I was laughing...6 goals and he didn't hit the scoresheet. It would have been funny if he was involved more.

 

So will you make the pilgrimage to Tampa?

 

There's a really nice Bass Pro right down the road from the Lauderdale airport. Maybe a photo in your Sabres gear would work. Then submit it to the Sabres when they put the pics up on the jumbotron.

[X. Benedict]

I was laughing...6 goals and he didn't hit the scoresheet. It would have been funny if he was involved more.

 

So will you make the pilgrimage to Tampa?

 

There's a really nice Bass Pro right down the road from the Lauderdale airport. Maybe a photo in your Sabres gear would work. Then submit it to the Sabres when they put the pics up on the jumbotron.

 

Decided to pass on the drive to Tampa about 1 minute into the third. :lol:

 

Just brutal.

[nfreeman]

Pyatt was a 6'4" 230lb forward who came to life in the playoffs against Carolina and was let go at 24, just as he was filling out his frame. He has not had a minus season since leaving the Sabres and has averaged 16 goals a year while being able to play a solid roll on 2 teams that weren't in the playoffs before he got there, but became top teams in the conference after he got there. He would be 3rd in hits on the Sabres the past 2 years

 

Bernier was a 6'3" 225lb forward who was given up on at 23. He has averaged 15 goals a year and this is the only year of 5 not in buffalo where he is not a plus player. He is 25 years old and would have been 4th in hits on Buffalo since last year.

 

In the 5 years Pyatt has been gone:

 

Pyatt, 68 goals 58 assists +32 $1million

 

Grier, 47 goals 62 assists -8 $1.2 million

Niedermeyer, 37 goals 44 assists -24 $1.15 million

Gaustad, 46 goals 72 assists +7 $2.3 milion

Hecht, 77 goals 104 assists +20 $3.52 million

Stafford, 71 goals 86 assists +16 $1.9 million

Connolly 48 goals 118 assists +18 $4.5 million

Pominville, 109 goals 177 assists +41 $5.3 million

Roy, 116 goals 199 assists +56 $4 million

Vanek, 160 goals 130 assists +43 $7.1 million

 

Each of those players has been on 2 division winners in that timeframe, except for Grier who had 3.

 

Each of those players was on a President's Trophy winning team, except Pyatt and Niedermeyer.

 

The only player listed with as many hits as Pyatt is Gaustad.

 

 

 

The only 3 who clearly outplay Pyatt of the top 9 forwards are your first line. In the last 5 years, Pyatt has scored more than Connolly while collecting $5 million versus Connolly's $18 million.

 

Guys like Grier and Niedermeyer who have been mentioned as far superior to Pyatt, look like no contest when taking the past 5 years into account...not just this "wall" year.

 

Gaustad, Hecht and Stafford are all debatable, while playing top 9 roles the past 5 years, if not top line roles many times...and while averaging 3x the salary of Pyatt.

 

 

Again, these are your President's Trophy winning, 2 time division champion Buffalo Sabres we are talking about.

 

 

Not to mention the tragic loss Pyatt had to rebound from in the middle of everything.

 

 

Probably the best thing that could have happened to Pyatt was leaving "the system".

First of all, excellent post. This obviously took time to put together and is highly value-added.

 

Second, I don't think anyone is saying Pyatt isn't a decent player. Bottom line is that he was caught in a numbers game at a time when the Sabres had too many forwards. In retrospect, the Sabres should've kept Pyatt, Dumont, Grier, Drury and Briere and let go of Max, Pommer, TC, Kotalik and Hecht -- although other money-saving choices would've been necessary too. I guess I feel like he's a decent player, and if keeping him at a low salary was part of a master plan to keep some expensive guys and some cheaper guys, that would've been fine, but as a one-off decision it's hard to get too outraged about it.

[nfreeman]

Also -- as for Bernier, it would've cost $2.5MM per year to keep him, IIRC, and he wasn't close to worth that much. Pyatt at $1MM per year is a pretty different situation.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Also -- as for Bernier, it would've cost $2.5MM per year to keep him, IIRC, and he wasn't close to worth that much. Pyatt at $1MM per year is a pretty different situation.

 

I don't argue the Bernier part. I knew someone would value him there though.

 

Again, not the Player himself, but the type of player that is considered to have no value to the Sabres. Pyatt isn't a difference maker, I just think he gets a raw deal from the fans in general in Buffalo. There is life beyond the Niagara River, and just because you may have only seen him play 5 times in the last 5 years, doesn't mean he isn't a success story on a relative basis.

 

Pyatt probably would have been an also-ran in Buffalo because of the cozy fuzzy atmosphere. I think Stafford has the potential to develop into the type of player we could all respect, but not in Buffalo. For 5 years there has been nobody to lead by example. It's sad. I thought Gaustad could have been the captain of this team, but he too has been rutted in Candyland.

[shrader]

Also -- as for Bernier, it would've cost $2.5MM per year to keep him, IIRC, and he wasn't close to worth that much. Pyatt at $1MM per year is a pretty different situation.

 

I don't believe that Bernier number for a second. That was the offer sheet that St. Louis originally offered him, right? That never happens if Buffalo still had his rights. St. Louis only did that to get a little revenge on Vancouver for the sheet they offered Backes. I know GDD will debate that point and obviously neither of us can prove our side, but I still stick to that belief. The Blues only offered a single year contract, which doesn't at all sound like what you would offer to a guy that you have every intention of poaching.

 

 

edit: I almost abbreviated his name as GoDD, but I can't imagine that not going to his head.:D

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I don't believe that Bernier number for a second. That was the offer sheet that St. Louis originally offered him, right? That never happens if Buffalo still had his rights. St. Louis only did that to get a little revenge on Vancouver for the sheet they offered Backes. I know GDD will debate that point and obviously neither of us can prove our side, but I still stick to that belief. The Blues only offered a single year contract, which doesn't at all sound like what you would offer to a guy that you have every intention of poaching.

 

 

edit: I almost abbreviated his name as GoDD, but I can't imagine that not going to his head.:D

 

Yeah....St Louis was all in a huff for 3 years $7.5 million and Vancouver was the bad guy. Funny thing is, 2 years later they give him a 5 year $22.5 million contract. Looks like Vancouver knew what they were doing.

 

Bernier number was legit. We went through this before but Tom Webster will tell you it was legit after his wallet was lighter and there was a new cat hotel at the SPCA.

[shrader]

Yeah....St Louis was all in a huff for 3 years $7.5 million and Vancouver was the bad guy. Funny thing is, 2 years later they give him a 5 year $22.5 million contract. Looks like Vancouver knew what they were doing.

 

That 3 years at $2.5 per is pretty significant since he was coming off his entry level deal and making significantly less (887K) and up to that point had only put up two seasons of 10-13-23 and 13-18-31. That's a lot of money for those numbers. What he wound up being paid 2 years later has nothing to do with that second contract. The 31 goals he scored the following year is what brought on that deal. Yes, they liked what they had in Backes, but they could have and would have gotten away with paying him a lot less over the last 3 years if Vancouver hadn't made their run.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

That 3 years at $2.5 per is pretty significant since he was coming off his entry level deal and making significantly less (887K) and up to that point had only put up two seasons of 10-13-23 and 13-18-31. That's a lot of money for those numbers. What he wound up being paid 2 years later has nothing to do with that second contract. The 31 goals he scored the following year is what brought on that deal. Yes, they liked what they had in Backes, but they could have and would have gotten away with paying him a lot less over the last 3 years if Vancouver hadn't made their run.

 

You pay for projection.

 

Obviously the contract underprojected how valuable Backes would be.

 

I don't care what you did for me, what will you do for me? Guys like Backes and Bernier have the potential to be the holy grail. Big, tough, talented....they don't grow on trees. You pay them both $2.5 million, and 3 years later one plays like a $1.5 million player and the other a $4.5 million player under their current contract. You have $6 million worth of player for $5 million and are 20% net positive value.

 

That's how you do it. Identify guys that have the potential to explode and get them on your team. You will not always be right, but you don't have to be. Guys that are in their early 20's and play with grit are one thing. The way Darcy does it, guys don't magically grow a spine and heart 30 years into life. That's why I respect Vancouver.