spndnchz Posted January 13, 2011 Author Report Posted January 13, 2011 Ron Wilson investigated for pay-to-play cap violation. :doh: He put $600 on a chalkboard. MacArthur mentioned it in his interview. Goes against the cap? :lol: Edit:Scott Cullen "Is it any more of a cap violation than a player living in an owner's house?" lol
R_Dudley Posted January 13, 2011 Report Posted January 13, 2011 So placing a guy on LTIR is getting creative now? I guess Sather took a hammer to Drury's hand. DD covered where I was coming from with that comment/was referring too below. The day this front office was cemented for the dishonest, sackless, POS they are is the day Regier came public in February of '07 and said without a doubt that Connolly and Afinigenov would play again that regular season. By doing so he handed over their salary to the cap, instead of adding guys like Gary Roberts for a song and Bill Guerin who would have both been allowed on the team ALONG with Connolly and Afinogenov in the playoffs since there is no cap. So YES......it is creative. At the time, Afinigenov was diagnosed INTO the playoffs if he went the full term of rehab. He came back for a game and was scratched in the playoffs. Connolly had been out a full year at the time and only made it back for the last week.Once again.....Darcy KNEW they were going to let the captains walk in February. He needed to "protect" guys like Paille, McArthur and Stafford who could take up roster spots the next year.....at 20% the price. This is AFTER F'n with Drury earlier in the year, knowing he wanted out. Remember this as Tommy G makes his $175MM deposit in one of the nation's ever so solvent banks in a few weeks. Thank you for making that point Ron Wilson investigated for pay-to-play cap violation. :doh: In the case of Timmy and Max that year they were legitimately hurt for an extended period of time that they could have used that option to clear some space. I cannot spend the time here at work researching the rules or looking back but I seem to remember other instances where Buffalo players were out for significant time where they could have possibly been IR'd to save some cap space. But of course you only do that if you plan to try and do something with that space once you do that. That to me is being creative and doing anything you can to help your team or give you a chance and I want that on the team I root for top to bottom.
Weave Posted January 13, 2011 Report Posted January 13, 2011 He put $600 on a chalkboard. MacArthur mentioned it in his interview. Goes against the cap? :lol: Edit:Scott Cullen "Is it any more of a cap violation than a player living in an owner's house?" lol MacAurthur is a dumass for mentioning it. That is something that gets left in the room. :doh:
shrader Posted January 13, 2011 Report Posted January 13, 2011 In the case of Timmy and Max that year they were legitimately hurt for an extended period of time that they could have used that option to clear some space. I cannot spend the time here at work researching the rules or looking back but I seem to remember other instances where Buffalo players were out for significant time where they could have possibly been IR'd to save some cap space. But of course you only do that if you plan to try and do something with that space once you do that. It's probably just a matter of semantics here, but LTIR'ing someone does not actually create any cap space. It allows the team to go over the cap by an amount equal to that player's contract, but only while he remains on LTIR. So like you said, it only means something if you actually use that space. If they don't completely use all of that "bonus" while the player is out, it doesn't carry over and disappears once the player is back. Outside of the Connolly-Afinogenov thing already mentioned, I'm not sure where else these kind of cap games really fit in. This team has always had a decent cushion under the cap other than that season, so you really don't need to play games to bump the cap up in that case. There, it's far more about the refusal to sway from your budget than it does the lack of imagination in terms of the cap.
Weave Posted January 13, 2011 Report Posted January 13, 2011 He put $600 on a chalkboard. MacArthur mentioned it in his interview. Goes against the cap? :lol: Edit:Scott Cullen "Is it any more of a cap violation than a player living in an owner's house?" lol Rob Ray talked about this on WGR at 4pm. He said it is very common for players to put money up on the board and apparently the league has no issue with it. He also said that lots of coaches have done this in the past too. He thought it should be a non-issue. I guess the league doesn't allow coaches to put money up as incentive but allows players to do it.
shrader Posted January 13, 2011 Report Posted January 13, 2011 Rob Ray talked about this on WGR at 4pm. He said it is very common for players to put money up on the board and apparently the league has no issue with it. He also said that lots of coaches have done this in the past too. He thought it should be a non-issue. I guess the league doesn't allow coaches to put money up as incentive but allows players to do it. And that's the way it should be. If they allow a coach to put up something like $300, then they really can't say it's not ok to put up $3000, or $30000. If a player puts up the money, that doesn't actually add anything new to the pool of money the team is paid as a whole. I didn't hear Ray's comments, but I can see where he's coming from. The main problem with him though is that he didn't play in the salary cap days (well he might have "played", but I forget when he official hung up the skates). It's a new world now.
spndnchz Posted January 13, 2011 Author Report Posted January 13, 2011 It's probably just a matter of semantics here, but LTIR'ing someone does not actually create any cap space. It allows the team to go over the cap by an amount equal to that player's contract, but only while he remains on LTIR. So like you said, it only means something if you actually use that space. If they don't completely use all of that "bonus" while the player is out, it doesn't carry over and disappears once the player is back. Outside of the Connolly-Afinogenov thing already mentioned, I'm not sure where else these kind of cap games really fit in. This team has always had a decent cushion under the cap other than that season, so you really don't need to play games to bump the cap up in that case. There, it's far more about the refusal to sway from your budget than it does the lack of imagination in terms of the cap. I'm sure u know this, but just to point out... LTIR'ing someone through the end of the season allows you to grab someone to fill their cap space, 'cause once the playoffs start the cap is out the window, allowing you to potentially keep the replacement player.
Weave Posted January 13, 2011 Report Posted January 13, 2011 And that's the way it should be. If they allow a coach to put up something like $300, then they really can't say it's not ok to put up $3000, or $30000. If a player puts up the money, that doesn't actually add anything new to the pool of money the team is paid as a whole. I didn't hear Ray's comments, but I can see where he's coming from. The main problem with him though is that he didn't play in the salary cap days (well he might have "played", but I forget when he official hung up the skates). It's a new world now. From what Ray said the players don't really keep the money though. While they may "win" the cash by gettting a GWG or something, the money ends up in a pot that gets donated to charity or spent on team building stuff. The player only gets bragging rights. I get why the league doesn't want Mgt to contribute to this but given it was only $600 I really don't think anything other that a couple lashes with a wet noodle is in order here. If I heard correctly the league is looking at a fine for this event.
R_Dudley Posted January 13, 2011 Report Posted January 13, 2011 It's probably just a matter of semantics here, but LTIR'ing someone does not actually create any cap space. It allows the team to go over the cap by an amount equal to that player's contract, but only while he remains on LTIR. So like you said, it only means something if you actually use that space. If they don't completely use all of that "bonus" while the player is out, it doesn't carry over and disappears once the player is back. Outside of the Connolly-Afinogenov thing already mentioned, I'm not sure where else these kind of cap games really fit in. This team has always had a decent cushion under the cap other than that season, so you really don't need to play games to bump the cap up in that case. There, it's far more about the refusal to sway from your budget than it does the lack of imagination in terms of the cap. Yeah, good catch clarifying what I may have made sound like actual dollar reductions to other's reading it. You are right on this point as well and maybe my analogy for creativity there is a bit of a stretch but I'm just trying anything to make the point I want everyone on this team especially management to set the real example that they will look at anything they can do to get an edge or make this team better and just maybe then attitudes will follow. Who knows maybe potential new owners troll here for the pulse of team fandom. :rolleyes: On a side note maybe PA should start that thread; guessing who is the new owners fan troll on the board.
shrader Posted January 13, 2011 Report Posted January 13, 2011 I'm sure u know this, but just to point out... LTIR'ing someone through the end of the season allows you to grab someone to fill their cap space, 'cause once the playoffs start the cap is out the window, allowing you to potentially keep the replacement player. But didn't they say something about the LTIR'ed player needing to be back at the end of the season to count? Or was that just the case with Connolly since he hadn't played a single game that year. From what Ray said the players don't really keep the money though. While they may "win" the cash by gettting a GWG or something, the money ends up in a pot that gets donated to charity or spent on team building stuff. The player only gets bragging rights. I get why the league doesn't want Mgt to contribute to this but given it was only $600 I really don't think anything other that a couple lashes with a wet noodle is in order here. If I heard correctly the league is looking at a fine for this event. There's a whole lot of gray area on that one. I think it's best to just not allow any of it and avoid the potential trouble.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 But didn't they say something about the LTIR'ed player needing to be back at the end of the season to count? Or was that just the case with Connolly since he hadn't played a single game that year. When a player is put on LTIR, his salary doesn't count towards the cap, allowing for additions to the team as long as that player is still on reserve. HOWEVER......there is NO SALARY CAP IN THE PLAYOFFS. This would have allowed Darcy to use Connolly and Afinigenov's cap space to add Gary Roberts and Bill Guerin and as long as Connolly and Afinigenov didn't play in the regular season, you could have fielded Connolly, Afinogenov, Guerin and Roberts in the playoffs. Afinigenov was diagnosed as possibly being injured INTO the playoffs just days before when Darcy made his PUBLIC statement that both he and Connolly would be back for sure during the regular season. Connolly had missed a full calander year at that point, and the two combined for a week's worth of regular season games. Yes they did come back, but there was no certainty of it, especially out of the mouth of a GM who takes 15 minutes to decide between ordering in Pizza or Chineese on friday night. Why was I so sure the team would not sign both Drury AND Briere and was getting flamed for it? Because of that statement. This team knew they needed cheap, young bodies to fill in for the departures. Roberts could have been had for Paille and a 2nd in all likelyhood, and Guerin for Stafford, McArthur and a 1st. No, those aren't deals I know were on the table, but are equal to what they were moved for. That was the most spineless thing I have seen from a fiduciary standpoint of fielding a winning team I can think of. That's like showing a 3 and 9 at the poker table before anyone has even folded, bet or checked. Darcy should wear that like a Scarlet A....for ######. I never see anyone make mention of this and GR hung up on me when I attempted to make the point at the deadline 2 years ago. Disgusting.
bunomatic Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 When a player is put on LTIR, his salary doesn't count towards the cap, allowing for additions to the team as long as that player is still on reserve. HOWEVER......there is NO SALARY CAP IN THE PLAYOFFS. This would have allowed Darcy to use Connolly and Afinigenov's cap space to add Gary Roberts and Bill Guerin and as long as Connolly and Afinigenov didn't play in the regular season, you could have fielded Connolly, Afinogenov, Guerin and Roberts in the playoffs. Afinigenov was diagnosed as possibly being injured INTO the playoffs just days before when Darcy made his PUBLIC statement that both he and Connolly would be back for sure during the regular season. Connolly had missed a full calander year at that point, and the two combined for a week's worth of regular season games. Yes they did come back, but there was no certainty of it, especially out of the mouth of a GM who takes 15 minutes to decide between ordering in Pizza or Chineese on friday night. Why was I so sure the team would not sign both Drury AND Briere and was getting flamed for it? Because of that statement. This team knew they needed cheap, young bodies to fill in for the departures. Roberts could have been had for Paille and a 2nd in all likelyhood, and Guerin for Stafford, McArthur and a 1st. No, those aren't deals I know were on the table, but are equal to what they were moved for. That was the most spineless thing I have seen from a fiduciary standpoint of fielding a winning team I can think of. That's like showing a 3 and 9 at the poker table before anyone has even folded, bet or checked. Darcy should wear that like a Scarlet A....for ######. I never see anyone make mention of this and GR hung up on me when I attempted to make the point at the deadline 2 years ago. Disgusting. Agreed. Darcy is a spineless G.M.
shrader Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 When a player is put on LTIR, his salary doesn't count towards the cap, allowing for additions to the team as long as that player is still on reserve. HOWEVER......there is NO SALARY CAP IN THE PLAYOFFS. This would have allowed Darcy to use Connolly and Afinigenov's cap space to add Gary Roberts and Bill Guerin and as long as Connolly and Afinigenov didn't play in the regular season, you could have fielded Connolly, Afinogenov, Guerin and Roberts in the playoffs. Afinigenov was diagnosed as possibly being injured INTO the playoffs just days before when Darcy made his PUBLIC statement that both he and Connolly would be back for sure during the regular season. No, I know the thought process behind all of that, but for some reason I remember the league issuing a statement that a player needed to be on the active roster before the end of the season to be available for the playoffs. That one was pointed directly at Connolly.
Weave Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 No, I know the thought process behind all of that, but for some reason I remember the league issuing a statement that a player needed to be on the active roster before the end of the season to be available for the playoffs. That one was pointed directly at Connolly. I seem to recall that it was important for Connolly to get in one game before the end of the regular season too.
korab rules Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 I seem to recall that it was important for Connolly to get in one game before the end of the regular season too. I remember the opposite - that it didn't matter - but that the league was supposedly going to scrutinize such moves to prevent abuse. So our pu$$y GM chickened out and didn't even consider pushing the envelope.
Weave Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 I remember the opposite - that it didn't matter - but that the league was supposedly going to scrutinize such moves to prevent abuse. So our pu$$y GM chickened out and didn't even consider pushing the envelope. Heh. That might be why I recall that it was important that Connolly get in a game. :blush:
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 I remember the opposite - that it didn't matter - but that the league was supposedly going to scrutinize such moves to prevent abuse. So our pu$$y GM chickened out and didn't even consider pushing the envelope. "Tim, how you feeling?" "I have a headache." Boom! There's Guerin. Again....it wasn't 1 move alone from these guys, but looking back at a series of them to prove what their motive was. And Afinigenov was diagnosed a few days before Darcy came public, as possibly being out into the playoffs. He came back and was scratched in the playoffs because he wasn't ready and played like junk. Here's a hint Darcy, you might not want to hand over as much of your paycheck to the IRS this January for I have a feeling your gross income this year will come up a bit short of your 2010 level.
shrader Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 "Tim, how you feeling?" "I have a headache." Boom! There's Guerin. Again....it wasn't 1 move alone from these guys, but looking back at a series of them to prove what their motive was. And Afinigenov was diagnosed a few days before Darcy came public, as possibly being out into the playoffs. He came back and was scratched in the playoffs because he wasn't ready and played like junk. Refresh my memory on this one, as I really don't remember much of anything from Afinogenov's entire stay here. This was the season where he played like crap but got that late game winner in the series against the Rangers, right?
korab rules Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 Refresh my memory on this one, as I really don't remember much of anything from Afinogenov's entire stay here. This was the season where he played like crap but got that late game winner in the series against the Rangers, right? In overtime! Box seats for that game :thumbsup:
spndnchz Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Posted January 14, 2011 San Jose is looking for a defenseman. Just **Rivet*** sayin'.
Calvin Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 San Jose is looking for a defenseman. Just **Rivet*** sayin'. Setoguchi & a 4th rounder for Rivet & Morrisonn
spndnchz Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Posted January 14, 2011 Setoguchi & a 4th rounder for Rivet & Morrisonn it would have to be straight up Setoguchi for Rivet. Taking Morrisonn puts them over the cap. edit: looking at that, there are only about 15-16 teams that could take on Rivet straight up. That team would need to be hurting for some slow defenseman to get him traded there. Sabres would need to take some dead weight with equal or less cap to get any additional 'good' player from that same team.
spndnchz Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Posted January 14, 2011 MacAurthur is a dumass for mentioning it. That is something that gets left in the room. :doh: Just saw this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuYjwx4GWg8 go to 2:10
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 Refresh my memory on this one, as I really don't remember much of anything from Afinogenov's entire stay here. This was the season where he played like crap but got that late game winner in the series against the Rangers, right? Afinogenov had a hand/wrist break if I recall, and it happened right before the deadline. He was diagnosed either 4-6 or 6-8 weeks....but the longer term would have put them into the playoffs without him. Darcy comes out a few days after that diagnosis in the days leading up to the deadline and says that the team expects Connolly and Afinogenov to be back for the regular season. He confirmed the NHL follows up on injuries, but he was obviously using it as an excuse not to make an impact move. It was transparent. He is either stupid, or willfull in his neglect of his duty to field the most competitive team possible. Nobody questioned him on it on July 1st. These aren't breadcrumbs...these are Liberace flamboiant "look at me, I'm an ######" moments. Afinogenov played like junk for a few games and was a "healthy" scratch in the playoffs early on.
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