Tim Kennedy

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Well, one disagreement with this post is this: isn't he taking home $550K from the Rangers plus $167K from the Sabres this year for a total of $717K? And wasn't it reported that the Sabres offered him $800K?

 

More importantly, I'd guess that if he had it to do over again, he'd have taken the Sabres' $800K offer even though it was a 2-way deal.

 

 

Well, if you're going to be in NYC anytime this spring, I'll gladly make the bet a few rounds of drinks, but if not, maybe a $30 or so credit at the Sabres store? But anything in that range is fine.

 

 

What a nice, collegial post.

 

I still don't see you articulating what ownership did specifically, so I'll infer: you think OSP and/or LQ ordered that Kennedy be axed out of spite for him taking them to arbitration, yes?

 

FWIW, calling it "the roster spot issue" is either misplaced or a straw man. I don't think anyone is saying they did this to save a roster spot -- especially since their plan is to carry one less than the maximum anyway (as many other teams have done and are doing for cap/budget reasons). The point is that they did it to save cash, not a roster spot.

 

Cool....I should be in NY in the spring.

 

 

And in all honesty, both sides are making too much of a stand on this Kennedy thing. The Homers vs. The Realists. I think in honor of the Quran burning pastor....Next July 1st I am going to light all my old Sabres media guides on fire in front of the arena to show Larry Quinn is the devil.

[Stoner]

So golisano, the guy whose face you can't remember (undoubtedly due to your advanced age) made this decision? Not Darcy, the guy who warned TK and his agent ahead of time?

 

Who cares who made the decision and who "own it". The team made the decision.

 

And you claim they threw him away over a couple hundred thousand? That makes sense. They threw away a hometown kid, a fan favorite with another decade to play, a player they like and intended to give a regular shift to over 200k. That is your argument? That makes more sense to you than my previous post as to the reason for his buyout?

 

You need to quit drinking that Bradford water. It's sharpening your paranoia.

 

You mean the near-pure, mountain spring-fed Bradford water? That wins taste tests?

 

I think what I'm saying does make more sense than your claim that the Sabres bought out Kennedy because he wouldn't agree to be a utility player. What bugs me is this idea that Kennedy was already pigeon-holed into a spot and an identity. Truth be told, he was a work in progress, and no one really knows where he's going to end up.

 

Now, go argue with nfreeman about the hundred grand.

[carpandean]

Everyone negotiating with Kennedy knew he had that money in his back pocket. And Kennedy knew it.

Having a second source of income should have little to no affect on his final salary unless there was only one team that wanted his services. Simple example: the Rangers think he's worth $700k and (pick random team here) thinks he's worth $690k. The Rangers offer him $550k because "you and I know that you are making $167k from the Sabres." What happens? Does the other team say "well, we think you are worth more than $550k, but we all know you are getting $167k from the Sabres, so we don't feel like we should offer you more?" No, they offer him, say, $600k. Then, the Rangers, despite knowing that he's making money from the Sabres, offer him $650k; the other team gives $690k; and the Rangers get him for $700k. Not exactly how it would work, but you get my point. If there is any competition for his service, then he will get roughly his market value (in a theoretical auction, he'd get the value of team that has the second-highest valuation of his services, but the world rarely perfectly mimics the theory), despite making an extra $167k. Like the sunk investment in him from the Sabres, he gets that $167k whether or not any team wants to pay him for his services, so his services will still go for roughly what they are worth.

[nfreeman]

I think what I'm saying does make more sense than your claim that the Sabres bought out Kennedy because he wouldn't agree to be a utility player. What bugs me is this idea that Kennedy was already pigeon-holed into a spot and an identity. Truth be told, he was a work in progress, and no one really knows where he's going to end up.

No argument here. I did not like losing him and certainly wouldn't have been outraged if they'd just lived with the arbitration award. But I don't blame them for cutting him loose either.

[carpandean]

No argument here. I did not like losing him and certainly wouldn't have been outraged if they'd just lived with the arbitration award. But I don't blame them for cutting him loose either.

If there weren't the nice story, marketing aspects of the home-town boy, I'm not sure that I would have thought much about this. Actually, I'd probably be focusing on my amazement that DR actually cut one of his own players (I know he didn't draft him, but he traded for him at the draft, so close enough.)

[korab rules]

Kennedy is a RFA next year so Rangers have first dibs. This season makes or breaks him.

Really? This doesn't make any sense. I thought he became a UFA when the sabres bought him out? You are saying he reverts to an RFA after signing a contract negotiated as a UFA? Why?

[korab rules]

You mean the near-pure, mountain spring-fed Bradford water? That wins taste tests?

 

I think what I'm saying does make more sense than your claim that the Sabres bought out Kennedy because he wouldn't agree to be a utility player. What bugs me is this idea that Kennedy was already pigeon-holed into a spot and an identity. Truth be told, he was a work in progress, and no one really knows where he's going to end up.

 

Now, go argue with nfreeman about the hundred grand.

Near pure? That's a ringing endorsement. I thought all the water in Bradford was bubbling with methane and you had fire shooting out your faucets. Frack, baby, Frack!

 

TK was a work in progress for sure, and for the right price they were willing to let him develop. What he had shown to this point just wasn't sufficient to justify the award, and TK's potential upside wasn't high enough to eat a bad award while waiting for him to develop.

 

Don't blame TK, his agent, or DR or golisano, blame that schmuck of an arbitrator who gave TK almost twice what he is worth. But for him, TK would be proudly pulling that blue and gold over his head. Oops, I meant portland's black and red.

[Stoner]

Near pure? That's a ringing endorsement. I thought all the water in Bradford was bubbling with methane and you had fire shooting out your faucets. Frack, baby, Frack!

 

TK was a work in progress for sure, and for the right price they were willing to let him develop. What he had shown to this point just wasn't sufficient to justify the award, and TK's potential upside wasn't high enough to eat a bad award while waiting for him to develop.

 

Don't blame TK, his agent, or DR or golisano, blame that schmuck of an arbitrator who gave TK almost twice what he is worth. But for him, TK would be proudly pulling that blue and gold over his head. Oops, I meant portland's black and red.

 

Fracking has apparently affected some folks with well water. The source of city water is indeed near pure. I say near pure because no source is going to be pure. But compared to where some of y'all are getting your drinking water, my water is Evian.

 

I guess I'll have to continue to scratch my head over the idea that 800k was the right price but 1,000,000 was worth setting league history over.

[korab rules]

It was more than a difference between 800k and 1 mill and you know it. The arbitration award was one way, which hindered the sabres roster flexibility. If he agreed to what the sabres offered, TK likely would have been making 150k for most of the year in Portland.

[SwampD]

It was more than a difference between 800k and 1 mill and you know it. The arbitration award was one way, which hindered the sabres roster flexibility. If he agreed to what the sabres offered, TK likely would have been making 150k for most of the year in Portland.

When you put it that way, it's hard to really fault Timmy for going to arbitration. Sounds to me like he actually got some pretty good advise from his agent.

[korab rules]

When you put it that way, it's hard to really fault Timmy for going to arbitration. Sounds to me like he actually got some pretty good advise from his agent.

Maybe, but only because the arbitration system is absolute crap right now. . But if so, if he got what he wanted, he shouldn't be acting all "butt hurt", as the TSW people say.

 

The reality is he had no intention or desire to leave. He just got caught up in something that spiraled out of his control.

[shrader]

Refresh my CBA. Isn't Butler on an entry level with a two way deal. He has to clear?

 

He has passed the games played threshold for waiver eligibility.

[wjag]

If there weren't the nice story, marketing aspects of the home-town boy, I'm not sure that I would have thought much about this. Actually, I'd probably be focusing on my amazement that DR actually cut one of his own players (I know he didn't draft him, but he traded for him at the draft, so close enough.)

Certainly the home town angle resonates with a lot of us. But it isn't only that. He showed hustle, he showed potential. I do agree that these first two have obfuscated the story that the Sabres cut one of their prized ponies. And that hasn't happened very often.

[Stoner]

It was more than a difference between 800k and 1 mill and you know it. The arbitration award was one way, which hindered the sabres roster flexibility. If he agreed to what the sabres offered, TK likely would have been making 150k for most of the year in Portland.

 

Why did Darcy come out after the award and say the Sabres would "work with it"? Why did he offer an opinion as to what would be a great season for Kennedy -- 35 to 45 points? Why did he say how much Kennedy could improve and why did he say the Sabres were going to work with him to help him reach that level? What changed so quickly after that? Who changed Darcy's mind?

[shrader]

Why did Darcy come out after the award and say the Sabres would "work with it"? Why did he offer an opinion as to what would be a great season for Kennedy -- 35 to 45 points? Why did he say how much Kennedy could improve and why did he say the Sabres were going to work with him to help him reach that level? What changed so quickly after that? Who changed Darcy's mind?

 

He would work with it, as in, he'll try to trade him, but if not, it's buyout time. If he says anything else, that chance of trading him becomes even smaller.

[korab rules]

He may not have realized immediately that he could buy him out. Who else did?

[nobody]

Really? This doesn't make any sense. I thought he became a UFA when the sabres bought him out? You are saying he reverts to an RFA after signing a contract negotiated as a UFA? Why?

 

 

I would have thought once a UFA, always a UFA. But Chz knows the CBA pretty well so I guess I'll believe her until she tells me otherwise.

[shrader]

I would have thought once a UFA, always a UFA. But Chz knows the CBA pretty well so I guess I'll believe her until she tells me otherwise.

 

He goes right back to being restricted. Free agency status is determined strictly by age, years in the league, and games played at the NHL level, nothing else. You'll also get the guys like Kennedy who are bought out and would be RFA's who aren't made a qualifying offer at the end of the year, but at the end of each season, it goes right back to those age/experience cutoffs.

 

If your idea of once unrestricted, always unrestricted was the case, any undrafted player would have one hell of a heads up on the free agency market.

[nobody]

He goes right back to being restricted. Free agency status is determined strictly by age, years in the league, and games played at the NHL level, nothing else. You'll also get the guys like Kennedy who are bought out and would be RFA's who aren't made a qualifying offer at the end of the year, but at the end of each season, it goes right back to those age/experience cutoffs.

 

If your idea of once unrestricted, always unrestricted was the case, any undrafted player would have one hell of a heads up on the free agency market.

 

 

True - I wasn't thinking about all of the "usual cases". I guess I never think of those as being UFA. I just figured special cases put players into special categories.

 

Good thing we got folks like you who know the details! Thanks!

[korab rules]

"It was a tough situation," Ruff said in his first public comments on Kennedy. "As an organization we've got to make decisions. Part of those decisions are with the players we signed, bringing in a couple veteran players and part of it is the push from other players, from an Ennis and down the line at some of the younger players coming."

 

The Sabres, of course, have traditionally refused to buy out players and have been loathe to part with young players. But Ruff said there was no disconnect between the front office and coaching staff on this issue.

 

"We sit on all those decisions together," he said. "There's no separation there. The coaches are in on the decisions as much as the front office is."

 

And, Ruff said, Kennedy was going to have a struggle to make the club because of the addition of Rob Niedermayer and the potential full-time additions of Ennis and Nathan Gerbe.

 

"There are no guarantees," Ruff said. "If you look at 10 goals and 26 points [Kennedy's totals from last year] and you look at a Gerbe that could be challenging for a spot, there are fights for positions. All of a sudden, if you're going to hand a first or second-year player a spot, it makes it tough on those other players."

 

Linky link

 

Hmmm. No mention of Quinn having his panties in a bunch or pinching pennies. No mention of "ownership" making the call and not "owning" the decision. Could clearing a spot for potentially more productive players have been the reason?

[nfreeman]

Hmmm. No mention of Quinn having his panties in a bunch or pinching pennies. No mention of "ownership" making the call and not "owning" the decision. Could clearing a spot for potentially more productive players have been the reason?

Well, to be fair, even if Lindy were PO'd about this, it's pretty unlikely that he'd vent about it to the media.

[spndnchz]

Clearly the front office decision was a full time one way Kennedy or a two way Ennis. I'll take a two way Ennis for 875k instead of a one way Kennedy for a million any day. You people out there wanting to hang DR for keeping Connolly because his Dad is LQ's friend can eat those words. DR was willing to take the heat from the media and fans by dumping a Buffalo kid because it was the right decision to make. A GM decision. Sure the other were involved in it but these are the tough decisions a GM needs to make. Hopefully he makes more.

[SwampD]

Clearly the front office decision was a full time one way Kennedy or a two way Ennis. I'll take a two way Ennis for 875k instead of a one way Kennedy for a million any day. You people out there wanting to hang DR for keeping Connolly because his Dad is LQ's friend can eat those words. DR was willing to take the heat from the media and fans by dumping a Buffalo kid because it was the right decision to make. A GM decision. Sure the other were involved in it but these are the tough decisions a GM needs to make. Hopefully he makes more.

You're making our argument for us.

[carpandean]

Clearly the front office decision was a full time one way Kennedy or a two way Ennis. I'll take a two way Ennis for 875k instead of a one way Kennedy for a million any day.

I'd say it was more a question of did they want their 13th forward to be a full-time, one-way Kennedy for a million or a two-way Gerbe for $62k in the AHL ($850k when/if he gets called up.) There's a 12th spot to fill, so they were going to pay someone (Ennis, Kennedy or Gerbe) $850k-$1M to fill it. The two-way part only factors into the 13th forward spot. If they felt Kennedy didn't have a great shot of keeping a top-12 spot, likely because Ennis has jumped over him, then they were faced with paying him $1M to sit in the box or play in Portland. They will start with 22 players on the roster and the 13th forward in Portland making minimal money.

[spndnchz]

With quotes like this about Ennis:

 

“I’m telling you, I think he can be a special player,” Ruff said.

“I think he understands. He’s gotten stronger in the offseason. He’s put on some weight. He’s a fearless kid we’re looking for creativity out of. We want him to operate the way he operated. We got to give him the space to make plays he needs to make.

“Being that creative, he’s going to make some mistakes for us,” he said. “But I liked what I saw in the (prospects) camp in July, and I like where he’s at on a fitness level and how hard he’s worked in the offseason."

 

There little doubt he makes it over Gerbe or Adam.

 

Carp, I get ur point. Really looking for our next Briere in Ennis.