Tim Kennedy

[henysgol]

Yay, little Timmy gets to be a Spanger. Good luck! Hehehe Tell Drury we said hi, I mean F#*< You!

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

This will be a fun revisit when Connolly is on IR. Who had the bet on his injury? I'd go all in he doesn't see 50 games this year.

[korab rules]

Historical revisionism, IMHO.

 

Really? Forming an opinion after allowing things to cool off, a couple months of calm consideration and reflection constitutes historical revisionism? Way to make an argument! Although I have to admit its much better than your usual tack of turning every post into an attack on Lindy Ruff...

 

Then what was it about? Cutting loose an asset out of spite? That just seems too irrational, albeit not impossible.

 

Don't discount the spite factor, it may not have been the primary motivator but it was surely a factor - but the spite wasn't just directed at TK - it was directed at the league and their broken arbitration system as well. You don't think DR derived a great deal of pleasure in the fact that the best TK could do was a 550K contract? Again, the pleasure was more from the egg on the arbitrator's face than TK's position.

 

 

As for them telling Ennis that a spot wasn't guaranteed -- I assume you aren't really relying on this as support for your position, right?

 

Only way Ennis' spot is in jeopardy is if he shows up 30 pounds overweight with a raging case of crabs.

[nobody]

It was about money -- what else would it have been about? Since they evidently intend to keep Ennis, Niedermayer and McCormick in Buffalo, they most likely intended to send Kennedy down to Portland. Buying him out saved them up to $833K in real cash this year.

 

 

As Darcy mentioned during the news conference - they wanted to sign Kennedy to a 2 way contract. It's highly likely to think that he was going to be sent down this season with the occasional call up and then he would be ready for full time NHL the following season. Now we just have to wonder if Darcy will try to offer him a contract next season assuming that the Rangers haven't already re-signed him at that point.

[shrader]

You are wrong. He played both at pro level and hes listed as a LW.

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/article82744.ece

 

http://www.northjersey.com/sports/pro_sports/hockey/101854288_Rangers_sign_ex-Sabre.html

 

http://www.msg.com/blogs/bill-hoppe/sabres-likely-done-with-tim-kennedy-1.47569

 

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2010/08/2010-nhl-free-agency-rangers-sign-tim-kennedy.php

 

 

I could cite more examples showing hes played the wing and center in the NHL, hence the argument about his production. But that is lost on you which is why you continue to say he never played wing so why does it matter.

 

The last link is completely clueless, so I'll leave that one out for the time being. The Gleason article spells it out pretty clearly. He played center for the bulk of the season and then moved to wing late in the year. Your big statistical argument is based on the 8 games mentioned in that article. It is completely assinine to think that an 8 game stretch would be more than enough to back up that arbitration award (and yes, I know you're not saying that, but you're suggesting that the arbitrator may have used that).

 

But anyway, before you jump all over the stick up the ass "you don't know what you're talking about" response, stop to think a bit. Yes, Kennedy is naturally a LW, but the vast majority of pro career up until March last year, if not all of it, was played at center. I guess I worded it wrong in my post but I figured the message was completely clear. He was a center at the pro level right up until the change last year. His pro career cannot be analyzed as a LW switching to C because that never happened at that level. He started out his pro career as a center.

[nfreeman]

This will be a fun revisit when Connolly is on IR. Who had the bet on his injury? I'd go all in he doesn't see 50 games this year.

I'd take that bet. Remember that it's his contract year.

 

Don't discount the spite factor, it may not have been the primary motivator but it was surely a factor - but the spite wasn't just directed at TK - it was directed at the league and their broken arbitration system as well. You don't think DR derived a great deal of pleasure in the fact that the best TK could do was a 550K contract? Again, the pleasure was more from the egg on the arbitrator's face than TK's position.

While I expect that DR did feel some vindication, I'd guess that overall he's just PO'd at Kennedy's agent and the arbitrator for making a series of bonehead decisions that cost his team an asset and cost TK his dream job.

 

As for being a factor in making the actual decision to cut him loose -- I don't think it played a role in DR's decision.

 

 

 

Separately, in thinking it over a bit more, I realized that the Sabres' plan may have been to send down BOTH Kennedy and Gerbe, and use that 22nd roster spot on an 8th defenseman. Since none of Butler, Sekera, Weber and Gragnani can be sent down without clearing waivers, DR may be planning on holding onto as many of those guys as possible, which would've meant sending down both extra forwards.

[shrader]

Separately, in thinking it over a bit more, I realized that the Sabres' plan may have been to send down BOTH Kennedy and Gerbe, and use that 22nd roster spot on an 8th defenseman. Since none of Butler, Sekera, Weber and Gragnani can be sent down without clearing waivers, DR may be planning on holding onto as many of those guys as possible, which would've meant sending down both extra forwards.

 

Remember though, this plan you're suggesting still involves Kennedy clearing waivers.

[Stoner]

I'd take that bet. Remember that it's his contract year.

 

 

While I expect that DR did feel some vindication, I'd guess that overall he's just PO'd at Kennedy's agent and the arbitrator for making a series of bonehead decisions that cost his team an asset and cost TK his dream job.

 

As for being a factor in making the actual decision to cut him loose -- I don't think it played a role in DR's decision.

 

 

 

Separately, in thinking it over a bit more, I realized that the Sabres' plan may have been to send down BOTH Kennedy and Gerbe, and use that 22nd roster spot on an 8th defenseman. Since none of Butler, Sekera, Weber and Gragnani can be sent down without clearing waivers, DR may be planning on holding onto as many of those guys as possible, which would've meant sending down both extra forwards.

 

What cost the team this asset wasn't the arbitrator or the agent, it was meddling from ownership. Otherwise there was no reason to lose this kid. No way in hell this was Darcy's idea. He doesn't buy out contracts; that's his policy. Korab, remember to add to Kennedy's salary the portion the Sabres are on the hook for. "Roster Spot" became the smoke in the mirror when Darcy had to come out an explain it because LQ and OSP don't have the guts. Some of you are so anxious to prove you know the business side of the game, you bought it.

[korab rules]

What cost the team this asset wasn't the arbitrator or the agent, it was meddling from ownership. Otherwise there was no reason to lose this kid. No way in hell this was Darcy's idea. He doesn't buy out contracts; that's his policy. Korab, remember to add to Kennedy's salary the portion the Sabres are on the hook for. "Roster Spot" became the smoke in the mirror when Darcy had to come out an explain it because LQ and OSP don't have the guts. Some of you are so anxious to prove you know the business side of the game, you bought it.

 

There's the PA we all know and, well...

 

This is classic Darcy! Cold, calculating, and heartless - he's a bean counter with no emotion, an automaton.

 

The Sabres aren't "on the hook" for any portion of TK's salary - they bought out their obligation to him for 333K. End of story. Then TK went out and negotiated the best salary he could get, and it was 550K. Don't make it sound like TK's actual worth is higher than the 550K he negotiated in an effort to support your insinuations.

 

LQ and DR don't have the guts to do what? What exactly are you saying "ownership" did? Spit it out!

[korab rules]

Remember though, this plan you're suggesting still involves Kennedy clearing waivers.

 

And based on this summer's events, what makes you think he wouldn't?

[nfreeman]

Remember though, this plan you're suggesting still involves Kennedy clearing waivers.

Doh! I gotta get that rule straight.

 

Even so, I think the ability to send him down OR waive him and thus get an NHL salary off of their books was the key factor. You're right about this hurting my theory about keeping an 8th defenseman though.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

There's the PA we all know and, well...

 

This is classic Darcy! Cold, calculating, and heartless - he's a bean counter with no emotion, an automaton.

 

The Sabres aren't "on the hook" for any portion of TK's salary - they bought out their obligation to him for 333K. End of story. Then TK went out and negotiated the best salary he could get, and it was 550K. Don't make it sound like TK's actual worth is higher than the 550K he negotiated in an effort to support your insinuations.

 

LQ and DR don't have the guts to do what? What exactly are you saying "ownership" did? Spit it out!

 

Tim Kennedy is taking home more cash this year than the Sabres offered him, far more than his qualifying offer, has a 1 way contract, and now has 250 places to eat within walking distance that are better than Chef's

 

Winner:

 

Kennedy

[Patty16]

The last link is completely clueless, so I'll leave that one out for the time being. The Gleason article spells it out pretty clearly. He played center for the bulk of the season and then moved to wing late in the year. Your big statistical argument is based on the 8 games mentioned in that article. It is completely assinine to think that an 8 game stretch would be more than enough to back up that arbitration award (and yes, I know you're not saying that, but you're suggesting that the arbitrator may have used that).

 

But anyway, before you jump all over the stick up the ass "you don't know what you're talking about" response, stop to think a bit. Yes, Kennedy is naturally a LW, but the vast majority of pro career up until March last year, if not all of it, was played at center. I guess I worded it wrong in my post but I figured the message was completely clear. He was a center at the pro level right up until the change last year. His pro career cannot be analyzed as a LW switching to C because that never happened at that level. He started out his pro career as a center.

 

It was more than 8 games, they were just referring to a stretch. so no its not asinine to say that from April through the playoffs his stats suffered. I've been part of arbitration and these things matter my friend, especially when dealing with a small sample of NHL playing time.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I'd take that bet. Remember that it's his contract year.

 

I'll bet something......anything in mind? Once he hits 50 regular season games....you win. So if it's February....I'll get you whatever it is on the line.

[Stoner]

There's the PA we all know and, well...

 

This is classic Darcy! Cold, calculating, and heartless - he's a bean counter with no emotion, an automaton.

 

The Sabres aren't "on the hook" for any portion of TK's salary - they bought out their obligation to him for 333K. End of story. Then TK went out and negotiated the best salary he could get, and it was 550K. Don't make it sound like TK's actual worth is higher than the 550K he negotiated in an effort to support your insinuations.

 

LQ and DR don't have the guts to do what? What exactly are you saying "ownership" did? Spit it out!

 

Why put ownership in quotation marks? They're for real. Maybe it's because you've forgotten what one of the owners looks like?

 

Ownership didn't have the guts to come out and "own" (sorry) the decision.

 

All you geniuses -- amazing that no one could foresee the decision that was coming, especially amazing in that now, it makes so much sense to you. You couldn't foresee it because it was so implausible, the Sabres walking away from a good young homegrown developed player over chump change. You couldn't foresee the roster spot issue because it made as much sense then as it does now -- which is to say it made no sense.

 

There, I spat it out. You swallowed. Sucks to be you.

[korab rules]

Tim Kennedy is taking home more cash this year than the Sabres offered him, far more than his qualifying offer, has a 1 way contract, and now has 250 places to eat within walking distance that are better than Chef's

 

Winner:

 

Kennedy

Your math is correct, and I never cared for chefs personally. My issue is with the insinuation that Kennedy is worth more than than the 550k he was able to negotiate on the own market.

[shrader]

Doh! I gotta get that rule straight.

 

Even so, I think the ability to send him down OR waive him and thus get an NHL salary off of their books was the key factor. You're right about this hurting my theory about keeping an 8th defenseman though.

 

It's not quite this simple, but generally, a guy who is no longer on an entry level contract is going to have to clear waivers.

[Stoner]

Your math is correct, and I never cared for chefs personally. My issue is with the insinuation that Kennedy is worth more than than the 550k he was able to negotiate on the own market.

 

Everyone negotiating with Kennedy knew he had that money in his back pocket. And Kennedy knew it.

 

The million might have been a little much, but he was worth that much to the Sabres, given what they'd put into him, given his potential, yes, even given his hometown status which had to mean something in terms of media exposure, fannies in the seats and merchandise sales.

[nfreeman]

Tim Kennedy is taking home more cash this year than the Sabres offered him, far more than his qualifying offer, has a 1 way contract, and now has 250 places to eat within walking distance that are better than Chef's

 

Winner:

 

Kennedy

Well, one disagreement with this post is this: isn't he taking home $550K from the Rangers plus $167K from the Sabres this year for a total of $717K? And wasn't it reported that the Sabres offered him $800K?

 

More importantly, I'd guess that if he had it to do over again, he'd have taken the Sabres' $800K offer even though it was a 2-way deal.

 

I'll bet something......anything in mind? Once he hits 50 regular season games....you win. So if it's February....I'll get you whatever it is on the line.

Well, if you're going to be in NYC anytime this spring, I'll gladly make the bet a few rounds of drinks, but if not, maybe a $30 or so credit at the Sabres store? But anything in that range is fine.

 

Why put ownership in quotation marks? They're for real. Maybe it's because you've forgotten what one of the owners looks like?

 

Ownership didn't have the guts to come out and "own" (sorry) the decision.

 

All you geniuses -- amazing that no one could foresee the decision that was coming, especially amazing in that now, it makes so much sense to you. You couldn't foresee it because it was so implausible, the Sabres walking away from a good young homegrown developed player over chump change. You couldn't foresee the roster spot issue because it made as much sense then as it does now -- which is to say it made no sense.

 

There, I spat it out. You swallowed. Sucks to be you.

What a nice, collegial post.

 

I still don't see you articulating what ownership did specifically, so I'll infer: you think OSP and/or LQ ordered that Kennedy be axed out of spite for him taking them to arbitration, yes?

 

FWIW, calling it "the roster spot issue" is either misplaced or a straw man. I don't think anyone is saying they did this to save a roster spot -- especially since their plan is to carry one less than the maximum anyway (as many other teams have done and are doing for cap/budget reasons). The point is that they did it to save cash, not a roster spot.

[korab rules]

Why put ownership in quotation marks? They're for real. Maybe it's because you've forgotten what one of the owners looks like?

 

Ownership didn't have the guts to come out and "own" (sorry) the decision.

 

All you geniuses -- amazing that no one could foresee the decision that was coming, especially amazing in that now, it makes so much sense to you. You couldn't foresee it because it was so implausible, the Sabres walking away from a good young homegrown developed player over chump change. You couldn't foresee the roster spot issue because it made as much sense then as it does now -- which is to say it made no sense.

 

There, I spat it out. You swallowed. Sucks to be you.

So golisano, the guy whose face you can't remember (undoubtedly due to your advanced age) made this decision? Not Darcy, the guy who warned TK and his agent ahead of time?

 

Who cares who made the decision and who "own it". The team made the decision.

 

And you claim they threw him away over a couple hundred thousand? That makes sense. They threw away a hometown kid, a fan favorite with another decade to play, a player they like and intended to give a regular shift to over 200k. That is your argument? That makes more sense to you than my previous post as to the reason for his buyout?

 

You need to quit drinking that Bradford water. It's sharpening your paranoia.

[korab rules]

The million might have been a little much, but he was worth that much to the Sabres, given what they'd put into him, given his potential, yes, even given his hometown status which had to mean something in terms of media exposure, fannies in the seats and merchandise sales.

History would seem to indicate you are wrong.

[spndnchz]

It's not quite this simple, but generally, a guy who is no longer on an entry level contract is going to have to clear waivers.

 

Refresh my CBA. Isn't Butler on an entry level with a two way deal. He has to clear?

[spndnchz]

As Darcy mentioned during the news conference - they wanted to sign Kennedy to a 2 way contract. It's highly likely to think that he was going to be sent down this season with the occasional call up and then he would be ready for full time NHL the following season. Now we just have to wonder if Darcy will try to offer him a contract next season assuming that the Rangers haven't already re-signed him at that point.

 

Kennedy is a RFA next year so Rangers have first dibs. This season makes or breaks him.

[VansTheMans]

Kennedy has been skating with the some of Sabres all week at some informal skates at the Pepsi Center (now Northtown Center).

 

He already has his Rangers gear and had Rangers pants on the ice.

 

I was skating there Thursday morning on another rink. Ennis, Myers, Connolly, Pommers, Gaustad, Grier, Mair, Kaleta and a few others were out there. By far the most impressive player there was Tyler Ennis. The kid is a PHENOM.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Your math is correct, and I never cared for chefs personally. My issue is with the insinuation that Kennedy is worth more than than the 550k he was able to negotiate on the own market.

 

Now there's something we agree on..

 

Chef's = Over-rated