Tim Kennedy

[jpgr909]

Fry me like jumbo, but I also think Paul Steigerwald of the Pens is excellent. But I don't really care for the banter with Bob Errey -- these guys are fairly large tools when they get going.

I have no problem with "Steiggy," and I can't stand Bob Errey, who is of the Andy Brickley ilk, but when you talk about Pittsburgh announcers, the conversation begins and ends with the legendary Mike Lange.

 

This is all true, but it goes back to my previous post (two posts ago actually) -- who cares that he's rooting for the Sabres? He's a local area broadcaster and 90% of the people hearing him are also rooting for the Sabres.

Again, not talking about RJ, but the issue isn't when they're rooting for their employer, it's when they are blindly loyal to their employer. That's nice that my announcer is rooting for my team, and of course he's expected to get more excited when our team scores, but who wants to listen to a guy who sees everything on the ice through home-team-colored glasses? I refer to my previous examples, like Dale Arnold for the (B)ruins, or like the complete homers who call the SJ Sharks TV games. Hockey is an exciting game, and I want to feel that excitement, even when it's the other team that's putting on the show. The video posted above is a perfect example. It doesn't mean the home announcer can't favor the home team, but when your team can do no wrong--EVER--it takes away from the play call and in some cases is borderline ridiculous/embarrassing.

 

Excellent point about how he learns the names of players, it is really cool when you think about it. I remember about midway through 05/06 when he switched from Tall-IN-der to Tall-EEN-der, and "Lidman" to "Luuuudman" (I have no idea how to type out pronunciations on here), it threw me for a loop the first few games but it seems like an honorable show of respect from RJ -- how would you like it if someone pronounced your name wrong a hundred times on a television broadcast? At least he makes a good effort.

I'm not disagreeing with you here, but that occurred as a result of Tallinder and Lydman approaching the broadcasting/media team and correcting the pronunciation. We know that because Jim Lorentz, I believe--and barring memory failure--told the story from the booth at the beginning of the game.

[SwampD]

This is all true, but it goes back to my previous post (two posts ago actually) -- who cares that he's rooting for the Sabres? He's a local area broadcaster and 90% of the people hearing him are also rooting for the Sabres. He helps make the game a little more exciting for us, and at the very least it gives the idea that somebody in the organization besides the players wants the team to win. ;)

 

Excellent point about how he learns the names of players, it is really cool when you think about it. I remember about midway through 05/06 when he switched from Tall-IN-der to Tall-EEN-der, and "Lidman" to "Luuuudman" (I have no idea how to type out pronunciations on here), it threw me for a loop the first few games but it seems like an honorable show of respect from RJ -- how would you like it if someone pronounced your name wrong a hundred times on a television broadcast? At least he makes a good effort.

IIRC when Derrick Roy (Roy) first came into the league, RJ (along with everyone else) pronounced it like Patrick Roy (Wah) but then changed it when he realized he spoke Amer'can and wasn't a Frogophone.

 

It doesn't really pertain to the topic but I thought it interesting. It's amazing in the Summer where we can get to from Tim Kennedy.

[carpandean]

IIRC when Derrick Roy (Roy) first came into the league, RJ (along with everyone else) pronounced it like Patrick Roy (Wah) but then changed it when he realized he spoke Amer'can and wasn't a Frogophone.

At home and growing up, he was Derek Wah. He has said that he is OK with R-oi, but it's not actually what his name is.

[spndnchz]

Decent article, Rosen interviews Kennedy.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=536796

 

Regier said he issued Kennedy a $605,000 two-way contract as qualifying offer. Once the GM learned of the $1 million award he informed all 29 other clubs that Kennedy was available in a trade, but no one wanted to take him at that price and obviously Buffalo didn't want to pay it either.

[shrader]

Decent article, Rosen interviews Kennedy.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=536796

 

Regier said he issued Kennedy a $605,000 two-way contract as qualifying offer. Once the GM learned of the $1 million award he informed all 29 other clubs that Kennedy was available in a trade, but no one wanted to take him at that price and obviously Buffalo didn't want to pay it either.

 

That quote's a bit misleading. It makes it look like the arbitration award came immediately after the qualifying offer and no other talks happened in between.

[spndnchz]

Another player with numbers like Tkennedy signed for nothing.

 

http://www.capgeek.c...splay.php?id=40

 

Blackhawks 500,000 two way deal.

 

That agent and arbitrator should b fired.

[thesportsbuff]

Hate to say I told you so but recent signings have proven that Darcy was totally in the right for buying out Kennedy, like I said originally.

[Bullwinkle]

Hate to say I told you so but recent signings have proven that Darcy was totally in the right for buying out Kennedy, like I said originally.

 

 

Thay may or may not be true, but if it is, did he have to make himself and the organization look like a horse's ass in the process?

[thesportsbuff]

Thay may or may not be true, but if it is, did he have to make himself and the organization look like a horse's ass in the process?

Personally, I think pretty much the exact opposite happened... Kennedy is the one comes out looking like a horse's ass, because the most he could fetch was about half of what he thought he was worth (it helps getting the check from the Sabres, too, but surely if he was worth more he could have gotten it). Regier knew what he had in Kennedy and stood by his 800,000 or so figure, which based on the numbers handed out to other players recently would have already been grossly overpaying him. Kennedy wouldn't back off whatever amount he wanted and once the arbitrator awarded him a salary high enough (laughably high for TK) to be bought out, Darcy jumped at the opportunity. Ultimately it didn't save a whole lot of money, but cleared the roster spot and gave TK a chance to land on his feet and play elsewhere rather than forcing him back to the AHL or whatever the situation would have been.

[Patty16]

Another player with numbers like ikennedy signed for nothing.

 

http://www.capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=40

 

Blackhawks 500,000 two way deal.

 

That agent and arbitrator should b fired.

 

Right but Arbitrators, (and ive done arbitrations with NHL lawyers) look at the bulk of players in his category and experience. The player you cited is easily washed away, hes older and only recently come into his own. Kennedy has more production earlier, and his agent would argue has more growth potential and that his numbers suffered bc of his position change. Which is probably true.

That being said, $1m wasnt reasonable and the market bore that out.

[shrader]

Right but Arbitrators, (and ive done arbitrations with NHL lawyers) look at the bulk of players in his category and experience. The player you cited is easily washed away, hes older and only recently come into his own. Kennedy has more production earlier, and his agent would argue has more growth potential and that his numbers suffered bc of his position change. Which is probably true.

That being said, $1m wasnt reasonable and the market bore that out.

 

Potulny's a year and a half older. That's hardly a difference that will mean anything. At the end of the day, one year of experience is not enough to make any case with. They can argue position change all they want, but since he's only played that one position as a pro, that's meaningless. If the arbitrator actually looked at anything like that, he's a fool (ok, we already know he's a fool based on that reward).

[Stoner]

Personally, I think pretty much the exact opposite happened... Kennedy is the one comes out looking like a horse's ass, because the most he could fetch was about half of what he thought he was worth (it helps getting the check from the Sabres, too, but surely if he was worth more he could have gotten it). Regier knew what he had in Kennedy and stood by his 800,000 or so figure, which based on the numbers handed out to other players recently would have already been grossly overpaying him. Kennedy wouldn't back off whatever amount he wanted and once the arbitrator awarded him a salary high enough (laughably high for TK) to be bought out, Darcy jumped at the opportunity. Ultimately it didn't save a whole lot of money, but cleared the roster spot and gave TK a chance to land on his feet and play elsewhere rather than forcing him back to the AHL or whatever the situation would have been.

 

The Sabres didn't save any money by doing it. A spendthrift franchise that treasures developing players flushed all that money they spent developing Kennedy to the cusp of a good NHL career. This wasn't about a roster spot. Please.

[Patty16]

Potulny's a year and a half older. That's hardly a difference that will mean anything. At the end of the day, one year of experience is not enough to make any case with. They can argue position change all they want, but since he's only played that one position as a pro, that's meaningless. If the arbitrator actually looked at anything like that, he's a fool (ok, we already know he's a fool based on that reward).

 

 

He played LW and then swtiched to Center. To say that means nothing is foolish. In fact based on your response its a good thing youd never represent someone or a team in arbitration. geesh

[bunomatic]

P.A. I agree with your take on this but there is something fundamentally wrong with the arbitration process as well when we see these awards to young unproven players based on what other players make.There has to be better system that serves both partys without driving salarys up.What that is I'm not sure but they had better come up with something.

[Patty16]

P.A. I agree with your take on this but there is something fundamentally wrong with the arbitration process as well when we see these awards to young unproven players based on what other players make.There has to be better system that serves both partys without driving salarys up.What that is I'm not sure but they had better come up with something.

 

What else would you base it on? Its based on the market for similar performances but similar players. No matter what system you have there will be aberrations which is why teams can walk away, sometimes at least. The arb process isnt all numbers btw. Value to team etc are factored in.

[wjag]

The Sabres didn't save any money by doing it. A spendthrift franchise that treasures developing players flushed all that money they spent developing Kennedy to the cusp of a good NHL career. This wasn't about a roster spot. Please.

I think this point is routinely lost. The Sabres lost the player and all the coin they invested in him. A player that was promoted out of the minor league to the big club. A player who the NYR are laughing all the way to the bank. Everyone sees the final 1M to get a pro player. The NYR don't have to pay any of the upfront costs.

 

How much did the Sabres spend on Kennedy during his minor league days? 200K, 300K, 400K, more?

[nfreeman]

The Sabres didn't save any money by doing it. A spendthrift franchise that treasures developing players flushed all that money they spent developing Kennedy to the cusp of a good NHL career. This wasn't about a roster spot. Please.

It was about money -- what else would it have been about? Since they evidently intend to keep Ennis, Niedermayer and McCormick in Buffalo, they most likely intended to send Kennedy down to Portland. Buying him out saved them up to $833K in real cash this year.

[carpandean]

The Sabres didn't save any money by doing it. A spendthrift franchise that treasures developing players flushed all that money they spent developing Kennedy to the cusp of a good NHL career. This wasn't about a roster spot. Please.

Arguments about development costs aside, if their plan without Kennedy is a 22-man roster and their plan with him would have been 23-man roster with Kennedy in the press box (or a 22-man with Timmy in Portland still making $1 million), then it was about saving money; $667k in total and another $167k pushed off a year. It could also have been about a roster spot if they see someone in Portland (e.g., Gerbe) as above him on the depth chart. With a short-term injury, they'd be able to call up that player to fill the open (23rd) roster spot that would have been filled by Kennedy.

 

Edit: OK, I lied, development costs not aside. Development costs are what, in business, are referred to as sunk cost. They have been spent and that cannot be changed. They have no real affect on the best decision going forward. For example, if they feel that they wasted that money (not saying that they do; hypothetically speaking), then does that make wasting more money on him a better decision? A lot of businesses have gone under for failing to realize this fact. No matter how bad you feel about previous mistakes, spending more on them does not make them any less of mistakes. Cut your losses and move on; make the best decision going forward.

[shrader]

He played LW and then swtiched to Center. To say that means nothing is foolish. In fact based on your response its a good thing youd never represent someone or a team in arbitration. geesh

 

He played LW in college but never at the pro level. So suddenly we're basing his arbitration award on what he did on his days at Michigan State? The biggest problem with that whole arbitration is that it had one year of NHL hockey to base a decision on. How that got him what it did is beyond me.

[Stoner]

Arguments about development costs aside, if their plan without Kennedy is a 22-man roster and their plan with him would have been 23-man roster with Kennedy in the press box (or a 22-man with Timmy in Portland still making $1 million), then it was about saving money; $667k in total and another $167k pushed off a year. It could also have been about a roster spot if they see someone in Portland (e.g., Gerbe) as above him on the depth chart. With a short-term injury, they'd be able to call up that player to fill the open (23rd) roster spot that would have been filled by Kennedy.

 

Edit: OK, I lied, development costs not aside. Development costs are what, in business, are referred to as sunk cost. They have been spent and that cannot be changed. They have no real affect on the best decision going forward. For example, if they feel that they wasted that money (not saying that they do; hypothetically speaking), then does that make wasting more money on him a better decision? A lot of businesses have gone under for failing to realize this fact. No matter how bad you feel about previous mistakes, spending more on them does not make them any less of mistakes. Cut your losses and move on; make the best decision going forward.

 

I can't wrap my mind around the idea that the hockey department (not including LQ) feels it wasted money on Kennedy. Nor, nfreeman, can I believe the notion that the Sabres intended to send Kennedy to Portland -- why would that intent be there even before another training camp and preseason? After Kennedy's late season surge, he was basically in the same boat as Ennis, or even in the next boat -- they told Ennis to work hard over the summer because a spot wasn't guaranteed.

 

You guys think Lindy (or Darcy) has given the decision-makers this much benefit of the doubt? Hell no. But he likes getting noticed at Chef's too much to rock the boat.

[korab rules]

I can't wrap my mind around the idea that the hockey department (not including LQ) feels it wasted money on Kennedy. Nor, nfreeman, can I believe the notion that the Sabres intended to send Kennedy to Portland -- why would that intent be there even before another training camp and preseason? After Kennedy's late season surge, he was basically in the same boat as Ennis, or even in the next boat -- they told Ennis to work hard over the summer because a spot wasn't guaranteed.

 

You guys think Lindy (or Darcy) has given the decision-makers this much benefit of the doubt? Hell no. But he likes getting noticed at Chef's too much to rock the boat.

Signing nieds changed the depth chart. TK isn't a top six forward except on an emergency basis. He has less than ideal size for a third or 4th liner. TK and ennis were never competing for the same spot, as ennis is top six material only.

 

Nieds made Kennedy obsolete. Kennedy only fit on the roster if he was willing to be a utility player. He wasn't, so they cut him loose.

[Stoner]

Signing nieds changed the depth chart. TK isn't a top six forward except on an emergency basis. He has less than ideal size for a third or 4th liner. TK and ennis were never competing for the same spot, as ennis is top six material only.

 

Nieds made Kennedy obsolete. Kennedy only fit on the roster if he was willing to be a utility player. He wasn't, so they cut him loose.

 

Historical revisionism, IMHO.

[shrader]

Historical revisionism, IMHO.

 

I think it was a bit strongly worded, but I don't necessarily disagree with what he said. If Kennedy was on the roster, where would you play him?

[nfreeman]

I can't wrap my mind around the idea that the hockey department (not including LQ) feels it wasted money on Kennedy. Nor, nfreeman, can I believe the notion that the Sabres intended to send Kennedy to Portland -- why would that intent be there even before another training camp and preseason? After Kennedy's late season surge, he was basically in the same boat as Ennis, or even in the next boat -- they told Ennis to work hard over the summer because a spot wasn't guaranteed.

 

You guys think Lindy (or Darcy) has given the decision-makers this much benefit of the doubt? Hell no. But he likes getting noticed at Chef's too much to rock the boat.

Historical revisionism, IMHO.

Then what was it about? Cutting loose an asset out of spite? That just seems too irrational, albeit not impossible.

 

I have to think that DR and LR figured the forwards would line up like this:

 

Roy-Vanek-Stafford

TC-Pommer-Ennis

Niedermayer-Hecht-Grier

Gaustad-McCormick-Kaleta

 

extra: Gerbe, Kennedy

 

...and that one of Gerbe and Kennedy was going to get sent down to Portland, so that other than injury callup games, one of those salaries was going to be an AHL salary. When Kennedy removed the possibility of him being sent down by getting the arbitration award, he forced them to decide whether they wanted him more than they wanted to stick with their forward budgeting plans.

 

As for Kennedy's "late season surge" -- while I liked him, and think that he didn't stink up the playoffs like the alleged top-6, he still had 1 goal in his last 12 games. BFD.

 

As for them telling Ennis that a spot wasn't guaranteed -- I assume you aren't really relying on this as support for your position, right?

[Patty16]

He played LW in college but never at the pro level. So suddenly we're basing his arbitration award on what he did on his days at Michigan State? The biggest problem with that whole arbitration is that it had one year of NHL hockey to base a decision on. How that got him what it did is beyond me.

 

You are wrong. He played both at pro level and hes listed as a LW.

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/article82744.ece

 

http://www.northjersey.com/sports/pro_sports/hockey/101854288_Rangers_sign_ex-Sabre.html

 

http://www.msg.com/blogs/bill-hoppe/sabres-likely-done-with-tim-kennedy-1.47569

 

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2010/08/2010-nhl-free-agency-rangers-sign-tim-kennedy.php

 

 

I could cite more examples showing hes played the wing and center in the NHL, hence the argument about his production. But that is lost on you which is why you continue to say he never played wing so why does it matter.