Kennedy Placed on Waivers (old Arbitration thread)

[SwampD]

I hate to burst yours. NO WAY Kaleta clears waivers.

That's probably true. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's better.

[Hephaestus]

ESPN has...

 

There's your problem right there.

[ECHL]

That's probably true. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's better.

Better at what. Kennedy is a better LW than Kaleta is a RW you mean. Kennedy had a 20 game tryout at center and it did not take good so he is back to LW and not better than Vanek Ennis the top and not better than Hecth for 3rd line. I don't like that they got rid of Kennedy but I understand why he does not fit and made the waive.

[SwampD]

Better at what. Kennedy is a better LW than Kaleta is a RW you mean. Kennedy had a 20 game tryout at center and it did not take good so he is back to LW and not better than Vanek Ennis the top and not better than Hecth for 3rd line. I don't like that they got rid of Kennedy but I understand why he does not fit and made the waive.

I think that is what I mean. As to how he fits, who's our fourth LW now? Gerbe? I'm still trying to figure out how there is a glut at LW.

[spndnchz]

You and I clearly differ by a wide margin on the "big picture" here, that was illustrated by the Kennedy fiasco, but focusing on the "small picture" for a minute... did you mean to say above that you are "OK with the Connolly contract"? I take it that way by omission. I consider that an absolutely shocking statement if so (that you feel I should "get over" the Kennedy thing and there is no issue or hypocrisy shown with the Connolly deal). Could you explain?

 

At the time, I would rather have them pay someone better more money.

Now, I'd rather they trade him, pay someone better more money.

For his contract, ur talking about someone that's averaged .9 PPG over the last three seasons and .93 PPG over the last two. He's in the league's top 40 for points but in the leagues top 60 for salary (forwards). That's not hypocrisy, that's a good deal, deal wise.

 

As 4 the player, not so much.

[ntjacks79]

At the time, I would rather have them pay someone better more money.

Now, I'd rather they trade him, pay someone better more money.

For his contract, ur talking about someone that's averaged .9 PPG over the last three seasons and .93 PPG over the last two. He's in the league's top 40 for points but in the leagues top 60 for salary (forwards). That's not hypocrisy, that's a good deal, deal wise.

 

As 4 the player, not so much.

OK, thanks for the reply. I don't agree that it's a good deal, because I think NHL players are about a lot more than points (and I think you do too), but I can see the logic you are floating (no pun intended, considering we're talking about Connolly).

 

Since you often seem to have such stats, can you tell me how many NHL players scored 10 or more goals in 2009-2010 that are scheduled to make less than $1M in 2010-2011? I'm just exploring the "hypocrisy" point of view.

[ECHL]

I think that is what I mean. As to how he fits, who's our fourth LW now? Gerbe? I'm still trying to figure out how there is a glut at LW.

I'm not sure either maybe Adam and Foligno can compete for fourth line LW maybe.

[IKnowPhysics]

I think Bucky's crybaby article overstates the emotional angle on this move. I also think he's trying to bolster some sort of anti-management agenda by praying on what he thinks are Buffalo fans' unending love for hometowners and their historic getting-screwed/underdog complex. Cheap. He also focuses on the financial issue, which I don't think was the most important issue.

 

For months (years now?) most knowledgable fans have been criticizing the young, soft, undersized forwards on the team and moreso, Regier's lack of effort to do anything about it (especially with the situation of too many up-and-coming young players). Then, when he brings in a little veteran chutzpah and leadership in Robby, taking up a roster spot, we complain when he pulls the trigger on a young guy's player-arbitrated one-way contract? That seems fickle, and fickle's not my style.

 

Yeah, I play a little violin for a Buffalo boy's career sidetracked out of town, but his hockey career's not over. He showed enough promise to be valuable to an NHL team, but not in ways that made him quite as valuable to our NHL team. That's a hard life lesson and I sincerely wish Kennedy well. (side speculation: I like the idea of Stan Bowman bringing him to Chicago to play with Kane.)

 

I think Regier's action was in the interest of bettering the team: don't overpay for players, don't keep players that don't fit what the team needs, free up a roster spots for players that fit what the team needs. That last aspect is the crucial one. We've given ourselves a little more forward roster room to make moves.

 

The question we should be asking is not why is Tim Kennedy gone- it's who is Regier going to replace him with to make the team better?

[jimiVbaby]

I'm not sure either maybe Adam and Foligno can compete for fourth line LW maybe.

Neither are ready for the big time, and Foligno is the one out of those two that is actually projected for a 3 or 4th liner. Adam should be top 6, and has first line potential but has a lot of work to do on his skating.

 

Right now the lines look similar to this:

 

Vanek / Roy / Stafford

Ennis / Connolly / Pominville

Hecht / Niedermayer / Grier

McCormick / Gaustad / Kaleta

 

Extra: Gerbe

[ntjacks79]

I think Bucky's crybaby article overstates the emotional angle on this move. I also think he's trying to bolster some sort of anti-management agenda by praying on what he thinks are Buffalo fans' unending love for hometowners and their historic getting-screwed/underdog complex. Cheap. He also focuses on the financial issue, which I don't think was the most important issue.

 

For months (years now?) most knowledgable fans have been criticizing the young, soft, undersized forwards on the team and moreso, Regier's lack of effort to do anything about it (especially with the situation of too many up-and-coming young players). Then, when he brings in a little veteran chutzpah and leadership in Robby, taking up a roster spot, we complain when he pulls the trigger on a young guy's player-arbitrated one-way contract? That seems fickle, and fickle's not my style.

 

Yeah, I play a little violin for a Buffalo boy's career sidetracked out of town, but his hockey career's not over. He showed enough promise to be valuable to an NHL team, but not in ways that made him quite as valuable to our NHL team. That's a hard life lesson and I sincerely wish Kennedy well. (side speculation: I like the idea of Stan Bowman bringing him to Chicago to play with Kane.)

 

I think Regier's action was in the interest of bettering the team: don't overpay for players, don't keep players that don't fit what the team needs, free up a roster spots for players that fit what the team needs. That last aspect is the crucial one. We've given ourselves a little more forward roster room to make moves.

 

The question we should be asking is not why is Tim Kennedy gone- it's who is Regier going to replace him with to make the team better?

I think this is all very well said, and I agree with much of it. But I'm still hung up on the bolded part above. Connolly? Overpaid. Stafford? Overpaid. Gaustad? Overpaid. And yet Sabres management takes stands on "not overpaying" with Tim Kennedy in 2010 and JP Dumont in 2007? :blink: I mean, REALLY? This is the whole issue. By doing things like this Sabres management have proven they are clueless. In order to work, a business plan has to be applied universally, not when it's convenient.

[Eleven]

I think Bucky's crybaby article overstates the emotional angle on this move. I also think he's trying to bolster some sort of anti-management agenda by praying on what he thinks are Buffalo fans' unending love for hometowners and their historic getting-screwed/underdog complex. Cheap. He also focuses on the financial issue, which I don't think was the most important issue.

 

For months (years now?) most knowledgable fans have been criticizing the young, soft, undersized forwards on the team and moreso, Regier's lack of effort to do anything about it (especially with the situation of too many up-and-coming young players). Then, when he brings in a little veteran chutzpah and leadership in Robby, taking up a roster spot, we complain when he pulls the trigger on a young guy's player-arbitrated one-way contract? That seems fickle, and fickle's not my style.

 

Yeah, I play a little violin for a Buffalo boy's career sidetracked out of town, but his hockey career's not over. He showed enough promise to be valuable to an NHL team, but not in ways that made him quite as valuable to our NHL team. That's a hard life lesson and I sincerely wish Kennedy well. (side speculation: I like the idea of Stan Bowman bringing him to Chicago to play with Kane.)

 

I think Regier's action was in the interest of bettering the team: don't overpay for players, don't keep players that don't fit what the team needs, free up a roster spots for players that fit what the team needs. That last aspect is the crucial one. We've given ourselves a little more forward roster room to make moves.

 

The question we should be asking is not why is Tim Kennedy gone- it's who is Regier going to replace him with to make the team better?

 

Apparently, Ennis for the LW duties and Niedermayer for the C duties. I actually think that does make the team a little better--but I really would have liked to see Kennedy stay.

[spndnchz]

OK, thanks for the reply. I don't agree that it's a good deal, because I think NHL players are about a lot more than points (and I think you do too), but I can see the logic you are floating (no pun intended, considering we're talking about Connolly).

 

Since you often seem to have such stats, can you tell me how many NHL players scored 10 or more goals in 2009-2010 that are scheduled to make less than $1M in 2010-2011? I'm just exploring the "hypocrisy" point of view.

 

I enjoy the challenge

I looked at rookie forwards that are above Tim's 10 goals

PLAYER TEAM GOALS/PTS MONEY

Duchene-COL 24/55 $3.2 million

Tavares-NYI 24/54 $3.75 million

Benn - DAL 22/41 $822,000 EL contract goes through 11-12

Bergfors -ATL 22/44 UNSIGNED

Galiardi -COL 21/39 $875,000 EL contract through next year

Van Riemsdyk -PHI 15/35 $1.6 mill

Kane - ATL 15/26 $3.1 mill

Regin- OTT 14/29 $1million

Anisimov - NYR 13/28 $822,000

Parse -LAK 12/24 $900,000 given 2 year one way deal this year

Yip - COL 11/19 $725,000 given 2 year one way deal this year

Beleskey -ANA 11/18 $667,000 in last year of 3 yr EL

 

Kennedy had 10/26 and got a million.

 

If I was an arbitrator I would have put TK at 800,000 two year one way.

[spndnchz]

Add Rob Schremp, NYI. Almost identical stats just sign a one year one way for 750k.

[ECHL]

Add Rob Schremp, NYI. Almost identical stats just sign a one year one way for 750k.

BTW Brendan Witt is bought out so he will be cheap. I like him for cheaper than Regier in Calgary. Sign for league min. Do it.

[ntjacks79]

I enjoy the challenge

I looked at rookie forwards that are above Tim's 10 goals

PLAYER TEAM GOALS/PTS MONEY

Duchene-COL 24/55 $3.2 million

Tavares-NYI 24/54 $3.75 million

Benn - DAL 22/41 $822,000 EL contract goes through 11-12

Bergfors -ATL 22/44 UNSIGNED

Galiardi -COL 21/39 $875,000 EL contract through next year

Van Riemsdyk -PHI 15/35 $1.6 mill

Kane - ATL 15/26 $3.1 mill

Regin- OTT 14/29 $1million

Anisimov - NYR 13/28 $822,000

Parse -LAK 12/24 $900,000 given 2 year one way deal this year

Yip - COL 11/19 $725,000 given 2 year one way deal this year

Beleskey -ANA 11/18 $667,000 in last year of 3 yr EL

 

Kennedy had 10/26 and got a million.

 

If I was an arbitrator I would have put TK at 800,000 two year one way.

Awesome analysis. Thanks for doing it. I agree with your arbitrator recommendation 100%. It doesn't change my mind on why overpay Connolly, Stafford, Gaustad and then take a "we're not overpaying" stand for $200K on guys like Kennedy and Dumont, but I really like the factual analysis you just did.

[IKnowPhysics]

Connolly? Overpaid. Stafford? Overpaid. Gaustad? Overpaid. And yet Sabres management takes stands on "not overpaying" with Tim Kennedy in 2010 and JP Dumont in 2007? :blink: I mean, REALLY?

 

Hey, maybe five wrongs don't make a right, and three do.

 

 

By the way, if anybody wasn't aware, Fulton product Rob Schremp is a dick; he went to HS with a good friend of mine; dicked his way around HS, dicked his way down the first round of the draft, dicked his way onto waivers out of Edmonton, and it took crazy old Wang to give him some minutes. Never feel like we missed an opportunity with this guy, no matter how many youtube videos his mom posts.

[LabattBlue]

Neither are ready for the big time, and Foligno is the one out of those two that is actually projected for a 3 or 4th liner. Adam should be top 6, and has first line potential but has a lot of work to do on his skating.

 

Right now the lines look similar to this:

 

Vanek / Roy / Stafford

Ennis / Connolly / Pominville

Hecht / Niedermayer / Grier

McCormick / Gaustad / Kaleta

 

Extra: Gerbe

I think Foligno also has another year of junior eligibility.

[static70]

I think Bucky's crybaby article overstates the emotional angle on this move. I also think he's trying to bolster some sort of anti-management agenda by praying on what he thinks are Buffalo fans' unending love for hometowners and their historic getting-screwed/underdog complex. Cheap. He also focuses on the financial issue, which I don't think was the most important issue.

 

For months (years now?) most knowledgable fans have been criticizing the young, soft, undersized forwards on the team and moreso, Regier's lack of effort to do anything about it (especially with the situation of too many up-and-coming young players). Then, when he brings in a little veteran chutzpah and leadership in Robby, taking up a roster spot, we complain when he pulls the trigger on a young guy's player-arbitrated one-way contract? That seems fickle, and fickle's not my style.

 

Yeah, I play a little violin for a Buffalo boy's career sidetracked out of town, but his hockey career's not over. He showed enough promise to be valuable to an NHL team, but not in ways that made him quite as valuable to our NHL team. That's a hard life lesson and I sincerely wish Kennedy well. (side speculation: I like the idea of Stan Bowman bringing him to Chicago to play with Kane.)

 

I think Regier's action was in the interest of bettering the team: don't overpay for players, don't keep players that don't fit what the team needs, free up a roster spots for players that fit what the team needs. That last aspect is the crucial one. We've given ourselves a little more forward roster room to make moves.

 

The question we should be asking is not why is Tim Kennedy gone- it's who is Regier going to replace him with to make the team better?

Regier has stated since the signing of Nieds that the forwards are set. And he said it again at yesterday's presser. I fail to see where your getting the idea that he is going to make another move. Reviewing the history of Regier, the Sabres roster they have now is pretty much what your going to see come the start of the season.

 

As for Kennedy, ya, I happen to agree he was expendable. I just don't believe it was to free up a roster spot. Bare this in mind, Regier gave him a qualifying offer, it was all about the money, and probably a little ego too I would imagine. But once again, with these facts known, there is no indication of any kind that Regier is going to make any more moves this season.

And believe me, I'm one of the worst speculators on these boards that so wishes he would.

[LabattBlue]

Regier has stated since the signing of Nieds that the forwards are set. And he said it again at yesterday's presser.

If the forwards were set after Neidermeyer was signed, why is Kennedy no longer a Sabre? ;)

[spndnchz]

Awesome analysis. Thanks for doing it. I agree with your arbitrator recommendation 100%. It doesn't change my mind on why overpay Connolly, Stafford, Gaustad and then take a "we're not overpaying" stand for $200K on guys like Kennedy and Dumont, but I really like the factual analysis you just did.

 

Add Drew Miller, 10G 19PTS not a rookie, but just got 650k for next year.

[thesportsbuff]

Awesome analysis. Thanks for doing it. I agree with your arbitrator recommendation 100%. It doesn't change my mind on why overpay Connolly, Stafford, Gaustad and then take a "we're not overpaying" stand for $200K on guys like Kennedy and Dumont, but I really like the factual analysis you just did.

 

I think you're all still missing the reasoning behind the move. It has nothing to do with saying "we're not overpaying" or being angry over Kennedy's arbitration decision. My post earlier in the thread sums it up but I doubt that anybody read it given the amount of "omg darcy sucks how could he think Kennedy isn't worth $1million" posts still going on. I'll give it another go.

 

 

Here's what I make of the situation man. It's not as simple as Regier not wanting to pay $1 million for him. Buffalo qualified Tim Kennedy before free agency, possibly expecting to sign Lydman and Hank or somebody else notable. They got Leopold and weren't able to sign anybody else. At this point, retaining Kennedy is no longer a priority, but they expected him to be signed for much cheaper, even through arbitration. They expected him to be signed for a number (i don't know the exact number -- just going by the press conference) that was below the "buy out rights" level. They expected to have to honor the contract based on his low salary. Once he was awarded an arbitration award of $1 million, it wasn't about "I don't want to give him that much" -- it was that the higher number granted Buffalo the buy out rights to him, the cheapest contract of all the small forwards on the team. Hours after waiving him they signed Morrisonn, who might not be the difference maker we were hoping for, but I definitely think he's an improvement over Hank and Lydman. I'm at least excited for him, hoping that he will be better than them. The point is, whether it be that he doesn't want a 23-man roster or he had to stay within the internal budget, the move made sense on higher levels than just "I don't want to pay him an extra 200,000." He wasn't sending a message.

 

Just my opinion on the whole situation.

[biodork]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkErV-HiF8I

 

Board needs a pep talk, or pep-shoot out.

 

Thanks, chz -- had forgotten which game that was until I saw Myers step up to the plate. :) I sure do prefer watching hockey to just talking about it... come on, October!!

[spndnchz]

Section 11.18 of the CBA. "No buyouts for players making less than 1 million"

 

So the arbitrator gave them an out?

[thesportsbuff]

Section 11.18 of the CBA. "No buyouts for players making less than 1 million"

 

So the arbitrator gave them an out?

 

Yes, this is what I've been saying since the press conference. The arbitrator's award allowed them flexibility and the choice to buy out Kennedy -- the cheapest contract on the team for a forward. Needing a defenseman, it made plenty of sense to let Kennedy go to sign one.

[biodork]

That's probably true. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's better.

 

I don't know I'd say better, but Patty had the same number of goals in a lot fewer games (and probably less TOI over the same number of games). Maybe a fluke year for Kaleta, but he/his agent didn't try to parlay that into some huge contract, either.