Everyone who wants to blame Regier...

[IRememberSpinner]

The problem is still - and has been for a long time - about money. I don't care what they say publicly, but they are not running this team to win a championship, they are running it to turn a profit. It dates back even before Drury/Briere, it goes back to Peca at least. Only Vanek got the big bucks and that was because Edmonton forced their hand. (There would have been a mass season ticket dump had they let them all go). the team drafts well overall and so they have an upsurge here and there - like last season with Myers - but they never build on that because that takes extra money. It creates a culture that players don't want to be part of and an attitude of mediocrity as a "good year" that leads to quick playoff exits. Without Miller this team is nothing, and just watch, as soon as he's an UFA he'll walk away too.

 

Its really hard to be a Sabres fan.

[Stoner]

No, it's an up or down vote on the four as a unit.

 

Keep all

 

Get rid of all

 

Yeah I am feeling a little better, despite the heat. Could be this thread or could be finally going commando after talking about it for so long. Let my liberty bells of freedom ring!

 

The only thing separating me from chz is a thin layer of gabardine...

[FogBat]

I could repeat my post on another thread about how the Sabres always manage to stay in the middle of the league and so always have hope to sell because it's applicable to this discussion.

 

While the fiasco of Briere/Drury is fading in the past, it should be noted that Darcy is now on an upswing. His stated goal last year was making the playoffs. He exceeded that by winning the division. So there is no way he will be replaced at this point.

 

If the team has a total collapse this year and misses the playoffs, THEN you might see some kind of administrative move by Golisano. But that will be a year away...at best.

Smart post.

[Sabre Dance]

Perhaps Regier is ineffectual because he is not believable. I have no faith in anything the man says anymore; perhaps after a decade + in the league, the other GMs don't trust his word anymore either and that is why deals are so scarce. Whatever the reason, I think he has more than overstayed his welcome. Why ownership insists on keeping the current hockey staff is beyond me.

 

It has been said that as long as Sabre fans keep filling HSBC that no changes will happen. An interesting point was brought up last Friday on WGR's Schopp and the Bulldog show. It was said (and I agree) that it is not the fans' responsibility to stop buying tickets in order to "force" a team to make changes. As the team's front office has stated on numerous occasions that their goal is to build a Cup winner, they need to follow through on that goal. The fans should support the team by continuing to buy tickets and cheer for the team. (Not to mention the fact that if the fans DID stop going to Sabres' games, the ownership would probably decide that it was a good time to sell the team, make a profit and go back to Florida).

 

I would really like to have an insight as to what is going on in the team offices. I would find it very difficult to believe that anyone inside the organization really thinks that they are doing all they can to bring a Stanley Cup to Buffalo (despite what has been said in public). If that is the case, how can anyone in the organization show their face to the hockey-crazed fans of this city? A worse scenario is if Darcy, G.Tom, Larry et al. really DO think they are doing a fantastic job building a Cup-winner. If that is the case, God help us all.....

[carpandean]

Perhaps Regier is ineffectual because he is not believable. I have no faith in anything the man says anymore;

I believe most everything that he says ... I just ask myself "what precisely did he say?" It's like Law Abiding Citizen; did he actually say what you think he said or did he just imply it? "I will try to be busy this Summer" actually means that he will try, but probably won't be unless he catches other GMs sleeping. "Summer is the time to rebuild your roster, not the trade deadline" means that he won't be busy at the deadline and teams that successfully rebuild will do so during the Summer; it only implies that he will rebuild during the Summer. "We have two of the top 20 centers" means that there is a stat for which Connolly and Roy were in the top 20; it only implies that they at two of the 20 best centers. As I said before, he rarely flat out lies, but what he says is usually incomplete. He implies what people want to hear without actually saying it, because saying it would be a lie.

[SwampD]

I believe most everything that he says ... I just ask myself "what precisely did he say?" It's like Law Abiding Citizen; did he actually say what you think he said or did he just imply it? "I will try to be busy this Summer" actually means that he will try, but probably won't be unless he catches other GMs sleeping. "Summer is the time to rebuild your roster, not the trade deadline" means that he won't be busy at the deadline and teams that successfully rebuild will do so during the Summer; it only implies that he will rebuild during the Summer. "We have two of the top 20 centers" means that there is a stat for which Connolly and Roy were in the top 20; it only implies that they at two of the 20 best centers. As I said before, he rarely flat out lies, but what he says is usually incomplete. He implies what people want to hear without actually saying it, because saying it would be a lie.

It's actually even more simple than that. He tells us that he probably isn't going to do anything, and then he doesn't. There's no surprises there.

[carpandean]

It's actually even more simple than that. He tells us that he probably isn't going to do anything, and then he doesn't. There's no surprises there.

On July 1 and the trade deadline, you are correct. The rest ...

[MattPie]

It has been said that as long as Sabre fans keep filling HSBC that no changes will happen. An interesting point was brought up last Friday on WGR's Schopp and the Bulldog show. It was said (and I agree) that it is not the fans' responsibility to stop buying tickets in order to "force" a team to make changes. As the team's front office has stated on numerous occasions that their goal is to build a Cup winner, they need to follow through on that goal. The fans should support the team by continuing to buy tickets and cheer for the team. (Not to mention the fact that if the fans DID stop going to Sabres' games, the ownership would probably decide that it was a good time to sell the team, make a profit and go back to Florida).

 

Or, "How do you feel about playing, say, 10 of your home games at Copps in Hamilton? I'm sure they can fill it." Reducing attendance will be very bad for hockey in Buffalo.

[Sabre Dance]

Or, "How do you feel about playing, say, 10 of your home games at Copps in Hamilton? I'm sure they can fill it." Reducing attendance will be very bad for hockey in Buffalo.

 

Exactly - so, if we continue to fill the arena, we get to keep the team here but the chance of a Cup run is minimal OR, if everyone stops going to the games, the team could wind up elsewhere. What is that old saying about a rock and a hard place?

[static70]

I have to refrain from commenting on Darcy, blood pressure issues. :wallbash:

 

But I can ask a question.

What exactly does Darcy believe with regards to the core? Wasn't there a comment made about Connolly by Darcy at the end of the season presser?

[Stoner]

(Not to mention the fact that if the fans DID stop going to Sabres' games, the ownership would probably decide that it was a good time to sell the team, make a profit and go back to Florida).

 

BUT... this is the change that is needed!

[ntjacks79]

Keep

Galisano (he did this area a favor by buying this team)

 

Get rid of

Regier, Quinn

 

On the bubble

Ruff

The problem with this "pole" is that I don't believe "getting rid of" Golisano or Quinn is an option. Golisano is clearly the majority owner and I believe he has made Quinn a partial owner. You don't get to make "keep/get rid of" decisions on the owners - they sell or they are there for life. Which brings us back to Regier and Ruff... and I think we have passed the one millionth comment on those two in regards to "stay or go".

[Stoner]

The problem with this "pole" is that I don't believe "getting rid of" Golisano or Quinn is an option. Golisano is clearly the majority owner and I believe he has made Quinn a partial owner. You don't get to make "keep/get rid of" decisions on the owners - they sell or they are there for life. Which brings us back to Regier and Ruff... and I think we have passed the one millionth comment on those two in regards to "stay or go".

 

True, but this is one of those "if you could wave a magical wand" situations.

[spndnchz]

Pole's and magical wands. Geez. I thought I was bad. :blush:

[deluca67]

I have to refrain from commenting on Darcy, blood pressure issues. :wallbash:

 

But I can ask a question.

What exactly does Darcy believe with regards to the core? Wasn't there a comment made about Connolly by Darcy at the end of the season presser?

Deep breaths work sometimes.

 

Does anyone mind if I steer this thread back towards it's title? I feel it was partly directed toward myself and others that have been hard on Regier.

 

I brought this up earlier and I would love to hear people's opinions on it. Regier's Sabres had pretty much the same season as the New Jersey Devils. Division Title, 100+ points and a early exit. Fast forward to today. The Sabre shave lost two defenseman and added Leopold. The Devils, if they sign Kovalchuk, would have signed the best defenseman and the best forward available in free agency. This is why I "want to blame Regier." You have Regier and his minimalist attitude versus a proven winner in Lou Lamoriello. The guy has built Stanley Cup winners. You have two teams starting the off-season at the same point. One team stays stagnate and one improves. That is why I "blame Regier."

[Robviously]

While the fiasco of Briere/Drury is fading in the past

Except that the Briere/Drury disaster isn't fading....because the Sabres haven't made a good personnel move since that day. The biggest trade they made was trading Campbell for Bernier (who played 20 games here) and a first round pick (Ennis, who might be really good as a Sabre). Other than that, it's been a bunch of rental players who gave us nothing and Craig Rivet for draft picks. The last time the Sabres made a bold trade to make the team better was SEVEN YEARS AGO when they got Drury.

 

Like most Sabres fans, I'd love to forget all about Briere and Drury, but it's really hard to do because we're the most boring team in the NHL and management never does anything to prove they're trying to get better. When you ask Regier what the plan is for winning the Cup, he just insists that our players are young and that they're still getting better.

 

This summer will be the second time in five years where the most exciting move the Sabres make will involve new uniforms.

[Eleven]

Deep breaths work sometimes.

 

Does anyone mind if I steer this thread back towards it's title? I feel it was partly directed toward myself and others that have been hard on Regier.

 

I brought this up earlier and I would love to hear people's opinions on it. Regier's Sabres had pretty much the same season as the New Jersey Devils. Division Title, 100+ points and a early exit. Fast forward to today. The Sabre shave lost two defenseman and added Leopold. The Devils, if they sign Kovalchuk, would have signed the best defenseman and the best forward available in free agency. This is why I "want to blame Regier." You have Regier and his minimalist attitude versus a proven winner in Lou Lamoriello. The guy has built Stanley Cup winners. You have two teams starting the off-season at the same point. One team stays stagnate and one improves. That is why I "blame Regier."

 

Thanks for bringing it back. I'll say this: unfettered, Darcy Regier has some potential. He's made some great moves. Warrener for Drury? Chris freaking Gratton for Briere? And those guys were affordable at the time. And those types of moves are always available. But we haven't seen that since LQ put his foot down. Who's to say what Regier could get for Stafford Connolly or Sekera or for whomever you feel is underperforming at the moment? We can't tell right now. And if the Sabres should fire DR because he's too "weak" to stand up to LQ, fine, but that won't fix a thing until LQ goes, too.

[Robviously]

Thanks for bringing it back. I'll say this: unfettered, Darcy Regier has some potential. He's made some great moves. Warrener for Drury? Chris freaking Gratton for Briere? And those guys were affordable at the time. And those types of moves are always available. But we haven't seen that since LQ put his foot down. Who's to say what Regier could get for Stafford Connolly or Sekera or for whomever you feel is underperforming at the moment? We can't tell right now. And if the Sabres should fire DR because he's too "weak" to stand up to LQ, fine, but that won't fix a thing until LQ goes, too.

How do you know that?

 

If you look at Regier's 13 years as our GM, you'll notice he really never trades anyone unless their time with the team is clearly up. I think Rhett Warrener might be the only player we traded that we still could have used at the time. I guess we traded Sarich and Ballard too, but they were both young enough that they weren't key members of the team yet. Other than that, his trades involve guys who weren't producing anymore (e.g. Mike Wilson, Derek Plante, Michel Grosek) or guys we couldn't keep for money reasons (e.g. Peca, Hasek, Campbell). Or draft picks or prospects that the fans aren't attached to in any meaningful way.

 

He's not a risk-taker. He'd never trade a guy coming off a career year because he knows his value is high and he might be able to get something good in return. If he makes a significant trade and it doesn't work out, fans can latch onto that and criticize him. If he never does anything, people will complain, but he can just say the trades weren't there to make. He basically does his job to avoid criticism.

 

I don't know that Larry Quinn is the problem. Maybe Regier still wants to trade low-value players for good players and those trades really aren't there. And maybe he doesn't have the guts to trade good players for good players. If he's waiting for another Grosek for Dumont and Gilmour deal, we're pretty much screwed.

 

(Imagine if we'd traded Afinogenov in summer 2006. We'd have received a nice return and had the cap space to re-sign Dumont. But I doubt Regier could stomach trading a fan favorite.)

[Eleven]

How do you know that?

 

If you look at Regier's 13 years as our GM, you'll notice he really never trades anyone unless their time with the team is clearly up. I think Rhett Warrener might be the only player we traded that we still could have used at the time. I guess we traded Sarich and Ballard too, but they were both young enough that they weren't key members of the team yet. Other than that, his trades involve guys who weren't producing anymore (e.g. Mike Wilson, Derek Plante, Michel Grosek) or guys we couldn't keep for money reasons (e.g. Peca, Hasek, Campbell). Or draft picks or prospects that the fans aren't attached to in any meaningful way.

 

He's not a risk-taker. He'd never trade a guy coming off a career year because he knows his value is high and he might be able to get something good in return. If he makes a significant trade and it doesn't work out, fans can latch onto that and criticize him. If he never does anything, people will complain, but he can just say the trades weren't there to make. He basically does his job to avoid criticism.

 

I don't know that Larry Quinn is the problem. Maybe Regier still wants to trade low-value players for good players and those trades really aren't there. And maybe he doesn't have the guts to trade good players for good players. If he's waiting for another Grosek for Dumont and Gilmour deal, we're pretty much screwed.

 

(Imagine if we'd traded Afinogenov in summer 2006. We'd have received a nice return and had the cap space to re-sign Dumont. But I doubt Regier could stomach trading a fan favorite.)

 

I do respect your opinion. But Regier absolutely fleeced some teams when he had the ability to do so. Agreed on Afinogenov, by the way, and I was one of his biggest defenders on this board. I still think the team misses him, but you're right, in '06, his value was high, and the Sabs could have kept JP. In hindsight, that was the move.

 

I think that Regier is operating with handcuffs on him--but if you've followed this thread, and it appears that you have, you already know my thoughts.

[FogBat]

Except that the Briere/Drury disaster isn't fading....because the Sabres haven't made a good personnel move since that day. The biggest trade they made was trading Campbell for Bernier (who played 20 games here) and a first round pick (Ennis, who might be really good as a Sabre). Other than that, it's been a bunch of rental players who gave us nothing and Craig Rivet for draft picks. The last time the Sabres made a bold trade to make the team better was SEVEN YEARS AGO when they got Drury.

 

Like most Sabres fans, I'd love to forget all about Briere and Drury, but it's really hard to do because we're the most boring team in the NHL and management never does anything to prove they're trying to get better. When you ask Regier what the plan is for winning the Cup, he just insists that our players are young and that they're still getting better.

 

This summer will be the second time in five years where the most exciting move the Sabres make will involve new uniforms.

Man, the truth hurts, especially in the bold! :o

[bunomatic]

I'd like to know where everyones getting this misinformation that Regiers hands are tied by management. Why would anyone remain in a job where they were'nt allowed to do the job without interference? That clearly shows a total lack of backbone and a lack of confidence in ones own ability to do the job elsewhere. If he was a quality G.M. he would leave on his own terms and find work where he could do the job without interference. Why would he stay and by staying what does that make him? There is a weakness in Sabres management that flows throughout the entire organization. Can any Regier supporters tell me why they think Regier would stay under these circumstances?

[FogBat]

I'd like to know where everyones getting this misinformation that Regiers hands are tied by management. Why would anyone remain in a job where they were'nt allowed to do the job without interference? That clearly shows a total lack of backbone and a lack of confidence in ones own ability to do the job elsewhere. If he was a quality G.M. he would leave on his own terms and find work where he could do the job without interference. Why would he stay and by staying what does that make him? There is a weakness in Sabres management that flows throughout the entire organization. Can any Regier supporters tell me why they think Regier would stay under these circumstances?

In all seriousness, would you bring John Muckler back?

[Stoner]

I do respect your opinion. But Regier absolutely fleeced some teams when he had the ability to do so. Agreed on Afinogenov, by the way, and I was one of his biggest defenders on this board. I still think the team misses him, but you're right, in '06, his value was high, and the Sabs could have kept JP. In hindsight, that was the move.

 

I think that Regier is operating with handcuffs on him--but if you've followed this thread, and it appears that you have, you already know my thoughts.

 

LQ is preventing DR from fleecing teams?

 

BTW, if those two had a love child, would it be a Blizzard?

 

Sorry, even at 8:50 a.m. I have ice cream on the brain.

[bunomatic]

John Muckler ? Is he even still alive? I haven't given one thought to him since he left this team. There are plenty of capable people out there that would inject new life into this team within hours of taking over. It's a simple question really. Why would you even want a G.M. that allows himself to be handcuffed by a non hockey person such as Quinn? Or by anyone within the organization. I think everyone can agree the G.M. should have full control over hockey decisions. If not anyone worth his salt would resign.

[deluca67]

Thanks for bringing it back. I'll say this: unfettered, Darcy Regier has some potential. He's made some great moves. Warrener for Drury? Chris freaking Gratton for Briere? And those guys were affordable at the time. And those types of moves are always available. But we haven't seen that since LQ put his foot down. Who's to say what Regier could get for Stafford Connolly or Sekera or for whomever you feel is underperforming at the moment? We can't tell right now. And if the Sabres should fire DR because he's too "weak" to stand up to LQ, fine, but that won't fix a thing until LQ goes, too.

No one likes Larry Quinn. No one wants Larry Quinn involved in any hockey decisions. I just don't think he has the influence over the roster you think he has. Going back to your article I believe Jim Kelley even noted that the second go around for Quinn he is taking a more hands off approach. Again, that was 2004.

 

I don't see Quinn as the primary problem. I think Regier has fallen into the trap of thinking he is the smartest guy in the room. That his way of building a team is the best way for this franchise and that his players/prospects are better than everyone else. He rarely thinks outside of the box and refuses to use all the tools available to improve his hockey club. Instead of embracing free agency he looks down on it. You can't win with that attitude. IMO, Regier has positioned this team to waste yet another year of Miller's prime unless he gets a major move(s) done. That's inexcusable.