Kotalik on waivers

[apuszczalowski]

I'm sorry, but when you pick 3 seasons out of his seven with the Sabres, one of them being the magical '05-'06 season, and use that to show us what a great coach Lindy is,.. that's a reach. Talking about a guy that just won the Stanley Cup and another that has been to 2 ECFs and a SCF as achieving more since they left is not. Maybe I'm wrong.

And yet you are saying that just because they made it to the finals, and one of them won, that they played much better on those teams? You realise that winning the cup is a team thing, and Campbell had nothing to do with the Hawks winning, there were times where I forgot he even played there. As for Briere, he has had mediocre regular seasons, but did turn it up to a much higher level inthis recent playoffs. If you want to compare their play, atleast use their stats, not what the teams did that they played for

 

If thats the case, shouldn't the vezina been between Niemi and Leightonen? MVP between Briere, Kane, or Toews???

[VansTheMans]

He's the opposite of what I want in a 4th liner. Give me Cody McCormick please.

 

Place him with Cody McCormick :thumbsup:

[apuszczalowski]

He's the opposite of what I want in a 4th liner. Give me Cody McCormick please.

I liked mcCormicks play in the playoffs, but I also wouldn't mind Kotalik back for a veteran minimum just for the shootout. But its a moot point since Darcy would never make that deal

[shrader]

Briere has done great in the playoffs for Philly, like he did with the Sabres, but his regular season #s were much better with the Sabres. As for Soupy, his best year was actually '07-'08, when he played 76% of his games as a Sabre.

 

So if anyone is reaching...

 

 

Ahhh crap,I knew I'd screw up looking at his numbers side-by-side.

[nfreeman]

I'm sorry, but when you pick 3 seasons out of his seven with the Sabres, one of them being the magical '05-'06 season, and use that to show us what a great coach Lindy is,.. that's a reach. Talking about a guy that just won the Stanley Cup and another that has been to 2 ECFs and a SCF as achieving more since they left is not. Maybe I'm wrong.

Do you think Kotalik will reach the level of productivity he had under Lindy again in his NHL career? If not, do you think that it is at least partially attributable to coaching?

 

How about Briere? Do you think he will score 95 points again in his NHL career?

 

(Now, I think Briere will be a great playoff performer for as long as he is in the NHL, and that this is largely attributable to his guts/grace under pressure/hockey IQ, and NOT coaching, but I think regular season productivity has quite a bit to do with the coach coming up with a system that maximizes what he gets from his players.)

 

We miss J.P. Dumont more.

+1

 

He's the opposite of what I want in a 4th liner. Give me Cody McCormick please.

+1

[SabresneedaCup]

bring back everyone from the 05 06 team. right now.

[deluca67]

I liked mcCormicks play in the playoffs, but I also wouldn't mind Kotalik back for a veteran minimum just for the shootout. But its a moot point since Darcy would never make that deal

He brought back Audette so it would not be without precedent.

[deluca67]

He's the opposite of what I want in a 4th liner. Give me Cody McCormick please.

I do hear that beer squirts from his breast and he craves oral :thumbsup:

[Tyrannustyrannus]

bring back everyone from the 05 06 team. right now.

 

 

even fitzpatrick?

[SabresneedaCup]

even fitzpatrick?

hey he helped too. he just wasnt as good as everyone else.

[SwampD]

And yet you are saying that just because they made it to the finals, and one of them won, that they played much better on those teams? You realise that winning the cup is a team thing, and Campbell had nothing to do with the Hawks winning, there were times where I forgot he even played there.

This is just not true.

 

As for Briere, he has had mediocre regular seasons, but did turn it up to a much higher level inthis recent playoffs. If you want to compare their play, atleast use their stats, not what the teams did that they played for

 

If thats the case, shouldn't the vezina been between Niemi and Leightonen? MVP between Briere, Kane, or Toews???

In every playoffs since he has left.

 

Do you think Kotalik will reach the level of productivity he had under Lindy again in his NHL career? If not, do you think that it is at least partially attributable to coaching?

 

How about Briere? Do you think he will score 95 points again in his NHL career?

 

(Now, I think Briere will be a great playoff performer for as long as he is in the NHL, and that this is largely attributable to his guts/grace under pressure/hockey IQ, and NOT coaching, but I think regular season productivity has quite a bit to do with the coach coming up with a system that maximizes what he gets from his players.)

For everyone that wants to use stats and regular season productivity to make their case, I hope you enjoy the summer, basking in your division winning glory. There isn't a single player on the Sabres that wouldn't have rather had Briere's season.

[nfreeman]

This is just not true.

 

In every playoffs since he has left.

 

For everyone that wants to use stats and regular season productivity to make their case, I hope you enjoy the summer, basking in your division winning glory. There isn't a single player on the Sabres that wouldn't have rather had Briere's season.

I agree that Soupy was an important part of the Hawks, albeit really about #6 to #8 on the list.

 

As for Briere -- I also agree that he had a better year than anyone on the Sabres (except Miller). But he was also money in the playoffs as a Sabre. It didn't develop after he left. And he turned from an underachiever into an EXTREMELY wealthy NHL star under Lindy's coaching.

[bunomatic]

Briere was never an underachiever,he's always been an extremely determined "I'll prove you all wrong" overachieving kind of guy. The thing Ruff gave him that no other n.h.l. coach would was a chance to prove everyone wrong.

[VansTheMans]

To play devils advocate:

 

It's also difficult to pin point Briere's regular season numbers based only upon who was his coach. We continue to say how the game has changed the past few seasons since 05-06 and 06-07 (the run n gun days).

 

Briere's superb numbers were more likely affected by the style of hockey played during those years than anything Lindy Ruff did for him.

[RazielSabre]

Wow ######. Let's hope Sabres management aren't like these forums. Constantly bickering about what could have been or should have been. I've not spent much time around these forums in about 2 years, and nothing's changed. Now lets start talking about Taylor Pyatt, or Peca, anyone? Before you complain to much, just think you could be the English football (soccer) team!

 

Kotalik was good for what he did, but utterly 1-dimensional and horribly lazy, not exactly what we want to build for going forward. Good luck to him but I dont see anyone taking him for the $3million I think his due for next year. Like someone said earlier, his worth around 800k-$1mill but no more IMHO.

[SwampD]

I agree that Soupy was an important part of the Hawks, albeit really about #6 to #8 on the list.

 

As for Briere -- I also agree that he had a better year than anyone on the Sabres (except Miller). But he was also money in the playoffs as a Sabre. It didn't develop after he left. And he turned from an underachiever into an EXTREMELY wealthy NHL star under Lindy's coaching.

Lindy hasn't developed any more or any less players into productive NHLers than any other coach. He is not some Pide Piper of Hamburg, calling all average talent to him to be developed into stars. That's my only point.

[nfreeman]

Lindy hasn't developed any more or any less players into productive NHLers than any other coach. He is not some Pide Piper of Hamburg, calling all average talent to him to be developed into stars. That's my only point.

I understand your point and respect your opinion, but I don't agree. I think he's taken players the Sabres have acquired from other teams (like Briere, Drury, Dumont, Warrener and, yes, Connolly) and gotten more out of them than their prior coaches, and that other coaches haven't gotten as much out of guys who have left the Sabres as Lindy got out of them.

[SwampD]

I understand your point and respect your opinion, but I don't agree. I think he's taken players the Sabres have acquired from other teams (like Briere, Drury, Dumont, Warrener and, yes, Connolly) and gotten more out of them than their prior coaches, and that other coaches haven't gotten as much out of guys who have left the Sabres as Lindy got out of them.

Just for the record, Dumont's stats (and I know you like to use stats) have been consistently better since he left. I know you'll say it's because of the wonderful work that Ruff did with him, but you can't have it both ways.

 

And if he is so good at developing and utilizing raw talent, then maybe he/we would be better served if he went to the AHL club.

[spndnchz]

And Modano's dun in Dallas. They won't offer him a contract this year.

http://stars.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=533133

[nfreeman]

Just for the record, Dumont's stats (and I know you like to use stats) have been consistently better since he left. I know you'll say it's because of the wonderful work that Ruff did with him, but you can't have it both ways.

 

And if he is so good at developing and utilizing raw talent, then maybe he/we would be better served if he went to the AHL club.

You are right about Dumont becoming more productive after he left, although it's worth noting that he slipped quite a bit last year -- 4 of his 5 seasons with the Sabres were better than what he produced last year. He's pretty much the only one though, and again, he was pretty close to a washout before coming to the Sabres. He then scored 20+ 4 times in 5 seasons with the Sabres. In Nashville, he's scored 21, 29, 16 and 17. You may disagree, but I think Lindy got him to play harder and smarter and this made him a wealthy man (and a better player) when he got to FA.

 

We can keep going back and forth on guys like Briere, Soupy and JP, but I'd ask the question in a different way: have any players been washouts under Lindy and then gone on to great things elsewhere? Or have any very-good-to-great players (at the NHL level, not juniors) come to Buffalo and done poorly here?

[carpandean]

A few more waiver casualties (per TSN):

 

Edmonton - Moreau, O'Sullivan and Nilsson. O'Sullivan seemed like he had so much promise after the 2007-08 season in LA, but has free-fallen since.

 

Lightning - Fedoruk

 

Rangers - Brashear, Voros, Rissmiller

 

The last batch, including Kotalik, cleared and all are now eligible to be bought out.

[SwampD]

You are right about Dumont becoming more productive after he left, although it's worth noting that he slipped quite a bit last year -- 4 of his 5 seasons with the Sabres were better than what he produced last year. He's pretty much the only one though, and again, he was pretty close to a washout before coming to the Sabres. He then scored 20+ 4 times in 5 seasons with the Sabres. In Nashville, he's scored 21, 29, 16 and 17. You may disagree, but I think Lindy got him to play harder and smarter and this made him a wealthy man (and a better player) when he got to FA.

 

We can keep going back and forth on guys like Briere, Soupy and JP, but I'd ask the question in a different way: have any players been washouts under Lindy and then gone on to great things elsewhere? Or have any very-good-to-great players (at the NHL level, not juniors) come to Buffalo and done poorly here?

Raffi Torres came to the team as it's leading goal scorer.

[nfreeman]

Raffi Torres came to the team as it's leading goal scorer.

I had a feeling old Raffi would come up sooner or later. I think the sample size of games played in Buffalo is too small to evaluate whether Lindy could have gotten something out of him.

[SabresneedaCup]

I had a feeling old Raffi would come up sooner or later. I think the sample size of games played in Buffalo is too small to evaluate whether Lindy could have gotten something out of him.

id like to see raffi get another shot.

[SwampD]

I had a feeling old Raffi would come up sooner or later. I think the sample size of games played in Buffalo is too small to evaluate whether Lindy could have gotten something out of him.

Yeah, I just threw that up against the wall to see if it would stick. I just don't see the Midas touch that you and others see in Lindy, and a lot of the bump that guys got while they were here happened during a two year league-wide bump.