deluca67 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Posted June 24, 2010 There is not a chance in ###### Miller doesn't want the Cup as much as the next guy. He is very exact when he speaks and he probably thinks there is no reason to crap on a season just because they didn't win the Cup. So what, they are words, just words They seemed to be spoken with sincerity as were Bryant's. I'm sure Miller "want's" to win a Cup. I just don't know if he is driven by it as athletes like Bryant who play at that elite level are driven by it.
carpandean Posted June 24, 2010 Report Posted June 24, 2010 Ryan Miller? So I wake up to sound bites of Miller complaining on how the regular season doesn't get enough respect. I immediately go to another sound bite of Kobi Bryant. By no means am I a NBA or Kobi Bryant fan. It just stuck out that Bryant stated that if he didn't win the Championship the season is a complete loss or failure. This is from a 5 time Champion with far more accolades than Miller. Is that the difference between a Champion and the rest? Is that why when it comes to crunch time Miller is the one who ends up congratulating the winning team? Is Miller destined to always be the gracious loser and never a Champion? Just out of curiosity - and I am asking because I don't actually know - but when did Bryant say that? After winning? During the playoff run in which they were considered a top contender? Don't forget that in the NBA, two franchises (Boston and LA/Minn) have won more championships than all other franchises combined. Bryant happens to play for one of those two.
Sabre Dance Posted June 24, 2010 Report Posted June 24, 2010 Ryan Miller? So I wake up to sound bites of Miller complaining on how the regular season doesn't get enough respect. I immediately go to another sound bite of Kobi Bryant. By no means am I a NBA or Kobi Bryant fan. It just stuck out that Bryant stated that if he didn't win the Championship the season is a complete loss or failure. This is from a 5 time Champion with far more accolades than Miller. Is that the difference between a Champion and the rest? Is that why when it comes to crunch time Miller is the one who ends up congratulating the winning team? Is Miller destined to always be the gracious loser and never a Champion? Miller is only one component (albeit a very important one) of a hockey TEAM. He stopped just about everything thrown his way during the season and was the best goalie in the Olympics. He can't play defense, score goals or win faceoffs. If he had a team in front of him that put some real effort into their game, he would not need to be a "gracious loser". I'm certain that he is aggravated by the fact that his brother Drew already has his name on the Cup. The awards handed out last night ARE for the regular season. It DOES count and the Sabres DID win their division. They tanked in the playoffs, but so did a bunch of other good teams. I do agree with Kobe in that anything less than a championship is a failure. But you also need to find some positives in that failure to build on.
jwcolour Posted June 24, 2010 Report Posted June 24, 2010 do you guys honestly think we can win a cup with ryan miller and the supporting cast? so then what do we have to lose by trading him.. For instance, take roy halladay the best A.L pitcher in the leaugue for some years now. Did the blue jays think that they could win it all with Roy Halladay and that supporting cast?...no. so thats why they got rid of him because they had nothing to lose. Roy Halladay was traded because he was entering the last year of his contract and Toronto didn't want to fork over $60 Million dollars at the end of the year... so they dumped salary and got as many prospects as they could because they don't have a lot of money. Doesn't really coincide with your argument.
jwcolour Posted June 24, 2010 Report Posted June 24, 2010 Miller is only one component (albeit a very important one) of a hockey TEAM. He stopped just about everything thrown his way during the season and was the best goalie in the Olympics. He can't play defense, score goals or win faceoffs. If he had a team in front of him that put some real effort into their game, he would not need to be a "gracious loser". I'm certain that he is aggravated by the fact that his brother Drew already has his name on the Cup. The awards handed out last night ARE for the regular season. It DOES count and the Sabres DID win their division. They tanked in the playoffs, but so did a bunch of other good teams. I do agree with Kobe in that anything less than a championship is a failure. But you also need to find some positives in that failure to build on. I agree with everything you said. Everyone is acting like Miller is the reason we didn't win the cup and are implying like he could somehow had tried harder. Since he was less than completely perfect in the playoffs he sucks all of a sudden. Have we forgotten that our team had a huge lack of scoring? Nothing Miller did could have influenced that. It's also worth noting that in the NBA realistically theres usually 4 or 5 teams actually expected to contend for the title. The Lakers being one of them. In Hockey the competition is better and the cup is really up for grabs.
Billfold100 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Posted June 24, 2010 Just out of curiosity - and I am asking because I don't actually know - but when did Bryant say that? After winning? During the playoff run in which they were considered a top contender? Don't forget that in the NBA, two franchises (Boston and LA/Minn) have won more championships than all other franchises combined. Bryant happens to play for one of those two. It was right after he went 6-24 in what would have been one of the worst Game 7 performances by a star player in the history of the NBA Playoffs if he wasn't bailed out by his teammates.
deluca67 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Posted June 24, 2010 It was right after he went 6-24 in what would have been one of the worst Game 7 performances by a star player in the history of the NBA Playoffs if he wasn't bailed out by his teammates. Bad shooting night indeed. Far from being a noshow. He adjusted his game when the shot was not going down. But I'm not here to debate the NBA. So many are missing the point. The point was, is Miller that elite level athelete driven to win championships. It has nothing to do with the players around him.
apuszczalowski Posted June 25, 2010 Report Posted June 25, 2010 Has any team ever traded its number one goalie to free up cap space? Especially when there really was no one in the system realistically able to assume the role of the number one goalie? To be perfectly honest, I cannot imagine any GM doing it, and I can only laugh at the thought of what Darcy Regier's response would be to such a suggestion. Reliable goaltending is a terrible thing to give away. Ask the Leafs what it's like to be without it. Its not a trade, but the Sharks have told Nabokov they aren't bringing him back. Was Turco the starter in Dallas this season cause he is being let go? The Canadians traded Halak this offseason and he became the starter in the playoffs..........
apuszczalowski Posted June 25, 2010 Report Posted June 25, 2010 ok so miller was better stat wise in those years but i watched all of those games and couldnt see why they thought he was better. Maybe thats why you watch games from the crowd or TV and not from the GM's spot at the arena.
apuszczalowski Posted June 25, 2010 Report Posted June 25, 2010 Roy Halladay was traded because he was entering the last year of his contract and Toronto didn't want to fork over $60 Million dollars at the end of the year... so they dumped salary and got as many prospects as they could because they don't have a lot of money. Doesn't really coincide with your argument. To correct you a little on this, the jays were willing to pay Halladay to keep him, but he wanted to test the market because he wanted the chance to play for a winner and go to the playoffs. The Jays were on the verge of scrapping the JP Riccardi (the only GM in sports that I dispise more then Regier) "5 year plan" and starting the rebuild process over again, and Halladay didn't want to take the chance of it being a few more years til he had a chance of playing in the playoffs. Sadly, the jays are about even with Philly right now in the standings
shrader Posted June 25, 2010 Report Posted June 25, 2010 Its not a trade, but the Sharks have told Nabokov they aren't bringing him back. Was Turco the starter in Dallas this season cause he is being let go? The Canadians traded Halak this offseason and he became the starter in the playoffs.......... I forget the exact timeline, but Dallas brought in Kari Lehtonen at some point during the year. Once that happened, he was their guy going forward.
That Aud Smell Posted August 2, 2010 Report Posted August 2, 2010 from today's puck daddy: "Watching Niemi walk and bringing on the 35-year old Turco on a short-term deal could also be a clue into Bowman's philosophy when it comes to goaltending: don't pay a high premium." there's no question that you need great goaltending to win the cup. for my own part, what i've been reflecting on is the extent to which you can get great goaltending from someone who's not a "great" goaltender (maybe someone who's just "good" or "very good"). i'm not prepared to say that any of the last 6 cup-winning goalies were/are great or elite -- they were good/very good and elevated their games in the spring. it would appear that stan bowman is managing his franchise based on principles that we've been kicking around this board. (i haven't been alone among, or even in the lead of, members who've posted thoughts like those above.) Can you forward this to Lindy? so, PA, it appears that we'd need to communicate these thoughts to darcy, not lindy.
Calvin Posted August 2, 2010 Report Posted August 2, 2010 and, not for nothing, but in the english premier league (i know, i know - flame away - it's SOCCER), *the* top prize is the regular season title. there's an elimination post-season tourney for the EPL, but the tournament title is not as treasured. i'm not saying that the reality of nhl success is going to change, or that it should change. just saying that the way we perceive success is, to some degree, arbitrary. really not sure what soccer you were watching.. the EPL ends when the regular season ends, with the last round of games. the knockout competition you refer to is the FA Cup which is run separately and is run on a knockout basis over 6 or 7 rounds.
That Aud Smell Posted August 2, 2010 Report Posted August 2, 2010 really not sure what soccer you were watching.. the EPL ends when the regular season ends, with the last round of games. the knockout competition you refer to is the FA Cup which is run separately and is run on a knockout basis over 6 or 7 rounds. my apologies - i'm only vaguely familiar with the EPL's structure, etc. i chatted about the issue with a friend of mine from england -- this was a while back and was over many many beers -- and my takeaway was that the brass ring for the EPL was a regular season title, and that all knockout tourney titles (and there are a few of them, i guess) are cherished, but not quite as much as the regular season title.
Calvin Posted August 2, 2010 Report Posted August 2, 2010 my apologies - i'm only vaguely familiar with the EPL's structure, etc. i chatted about the issue with a friend of mine from england -- this was a while back and was over many many beers -- and my takeaway was that the brass ring for the EPL was a regular season title, and that all knockout tourney titles (and there are a few of them, i guess) are cherished, but not quite as much as the regular season title. no sweat. and you're right, the Premier League title is the big one.
That Aud Smell Posted March 7, 2011 Report Posted March 7, 2011 i resurrected this thread because puck daddy has turned its attention back to the question of the extent to which you need an elite goalie to make a run at the cup and the study case of the philadelphia flyers (and their recent suckitude). Linkelstilsken. there's a lot of good stuff up-thread of this bump (my content notwithstanding). strikes me that, like most things in life, there's no clear answer on this one. fwiw, greg at puck daddy is giving some play to the notional thought discussed above. there's no question that you need great goaltending to win the cup. for my own part, what i've been reflecting on is the extent to which you can get great goaltending from someone who's not a "great" goaltender (maybe someone who's just "good" or "very good"). i'm not prepared to say that any of the last 6 cup-winning goalies were/are great or elite -- they were good/very good and elevated their games in the spring. i also note with increasing interest the extent to which the cup-winning goalies had light workloads during the regular season (see below). if you're a team with a great/elite goalie (canucks, sabres, devils (well, formerly maybe), flames), you need to give this trend serious thought. niemi (09-10): 39 GP fleury (08-09): 62 GP osgood (07-08): 43 GP giguere (06-07): 56 GP ward (05-06): 28 GP khabibulin: (03-04): 55 GP
SabresMojo Posted March 7, 2011 Report Posted March 7, 2011 You dont need a world class goalie to win you a Cup. You need the team and everyone to have confidence that the goalie will perform. If a goalie can get you 16 postseason wins (in one postseason; ie a Stanley Cup), then that goalie is praised. I mean look at Niemi, he had 3 NHL starts going into last season w/ the Hawks, making 39 that season alone and he looked crazy good for them! Its not all about a goalie; but having one that performs well....that's just a great bonus. I think Miller is a great goalie, no doubt, if he is on, best of luck getting a win for whomever the opponent is. If he isnt on his game...well Buffalo, better work that much harder for a win.
dumb_dumb88 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Posted March 8, 2011 Ryan at his worst is Leighton. Ryan just mediocre is Niemi. He's really good. He's relatively inexpensive. Goalie is one position we just don't have to worry about for some time. Complaining about him is just a waste if time considering the other issues plaguing this team. I love having Miller as our goalie, and he for sure isn't going anywhere for the duration of his current contract atleast, but, "he's relatively inexpensive"? :blink: He's 6.25 mil a season, I don't know, but that ain't cheap to me. ;)
X. Benedict Posted March 8, 2011 Report Posted March 8, 2011 You dont need a world class goalie to win you a Cup. You need the team and everyone to have confidence that the goalie will perform. If a goalie can get you 16 postseason wins (in one postseason; ie a Stanley Cup), then that goalie is praised. I mean look at Niemi, he had 3 NHL starts going into last season w/ the Hawks, making 39 that season alone and he looked crazy good for them! Its not all about a goalie; but having one that performs well....that's just a great bonus. I think Miller is a great goalie, no doubt, if he is on, best of luck getting a win for whomever the opponent is. If he isnt on his game...well Buffalo, better work that much harder for a win. You don't need a world class goalie to win a cup, you just need somebody to play like a world class goalie to win a cup. Most of the time that goalie is a world class goalie...there are exceptions of course.
SabresMojo Posted March 8, 2011 Report Posted March 8, 2011 You don't need a world class goalie to win a cup, you just need somebody to play like a world class goalie to win a cup. Most of the time that goalie is a world class goalie...there are exceptions of course. Exceptions ALWAYS happen! It happens in every sport... .a no name comes thru and then all the talk is them!
X. Benedict Posted March 8, 2011 Report Posted March 8, 2011 Exceptions ALWAYS happen! It happens in every sport... .a no name comes thru and then all the talk is them! Goalies are often like baseball pitchers. First few times a team sees them the hitters are guessing.....once they have seen them a few times they know their tendencies. Tom Barrasso stuggled in his second year. Mason never regained his stuff. Cam Warm just sucked his second year. The great goalies adjust....right now I would say if I'm in Philly I would be worried about my goaltending. Too many teams have seen those guys now.
Iron Crotch Posted March 8, 2011 Report Posted March 8, 2011 IMHO, the goaltending position is less about statistics and more about wins and losses. Miller is a career 215-122-1 and he's never posted a losing season (other than 2002-2003 when he was just a kid). While Miller's stats aren't with the league leaders, I think the system has a lot to do with that. Because Miller is a strong 1-on-1 and 2-on-1 goalie, I think Lindy feels comfortable letting our defensemen take more chances than they otherwise would. Put Miller in Nashville's system and he'd be up at the top of the league in GAA and save % every year.
X. Benedict Posted March 8, 2011 Report Posted March 8, 2011 IMHO, the goaltending position is less about statistics and more about wins and losses. Miller is a career 215-122-1 and he's never posted a losing season (other than 2002-2003 when he was just a kid). While Miller's stats aren't with the league leaders, I think the system has a lot to do with that. Because Miller is a strong 1-on-1 and 2-on-1 goalie, I think Lindy feels comfortable letting our defensemen take more chances than they otherwise would. Put Miller in Nashville's system and he'd be up at the top of the league in GAA and save % every year. I liked the adjustments with Enroth in last night BTW...the team was collapsing deeper on D and they were leading with longer breakout passes. It lead to more icings but worked fine. They weren't giving up great shots.
Iron Crotch Posted March 8, 2011 Report Posted March 8, 2011 to somes things up miller is a d bag who is overrated and i dont like him. This is just classic! :clapping:
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