Darcy Regier

[SwampD]

I get this argument better then most, but one thing I think I learned through the years is you don't discount or rationalize success.

You say they took over team headed in the right direction. I say they took a team exposed the year before and added some important pieces that led to two straight conference finals, s Stanley Cup final and a couple more years of pretty good success before the wheels came off.

 

You can pick apart every champion. How lucky were the Red Wings that a couple of after thought draft choices turned into Datsyuk and Zetterberg? The genius that is Bill Belichek lucked out with a 6th round draft choice in a year that not one of his other picks made it. Is Ray Shero a genius if the lcok out lottery doesn't go his way? I could go on but all I'm really saying is if you want to firre Regier and Ruff, I'm fine with that provided they bring someone better in and please don't diminish or qualify their successes.

I definitely don't discount success, but if you really look at it, out of the last eight seasons played, there were only two that were worth getting excited about. That's not success.

 

You said the magic word, as well, "luck". People say you make your own luck. I won't get into the Xs and Os as to why I think we don't have it, but for that reason alone, it's time to change it.

[shrader]

TW, minor nitpick alert. Wasn't Craig Patrick still the GM when the Crosby lottery took place?

[bunomatic]

I like Ruff.I think he's grown as a coach and adapted somewhat to the league as it seems to work now. i.e. how to deal with todays players and systems etc. But regier has had an incredible window of opportunity to do a job and he's been unable to do that job. I am the first to admit he's had a certain level of success but it's not the level of success he was hired for. Ultimatly he was hired to bring a cup to Buffalo. He's had 12 years to do it and he has'nt. When he started with Buffalo he had a 5 year plan. When does he finish his 5 year plan and how much longer do you give him?

[tom webster]

TW, minor nitpick alert. Wasn't Craig Patrick still the GM when the Crosby lottery took place?

 

 

Yes, but my point was would Shero's moves been deemed so "genius" if he didn't have Crosby?

[tom webster]

I definitely don't discount success, but if you really look at it, out of the last eight seasons played, there were only two that were worth getting excited about. That's not success.

 

You said the magic word, as well, "luck". People say you make your own luck. I won't get into the Xs and Os as to why I think we don't have it, but for that reason alone, it's time to change it.

 

 

I used to believe you make your own luck, but in my older years I have turned that into what you do with the luck you are given. I relate it to an old colleague of mine from my retail days. He was basically demoted by being transferred to Niagara Falls one year and went kicking and screaming. Of course, a year after he went the change in the value of the Canadian dollare resulted in a deluge of "new" Canadian business and he was given a heroes send off when he retired. Now he worked his butt off when his luck provided him with the opportunity, but he would grudgingly tell you he was in the right place at the right time.

 

Two more points. Off the top of my head I can't think of one champion where I thought it was coaching alone that made the ultimate difference. Certainly coaches had a hand in the success, but to me its always the players.

 

Two, I think there was a lot to be excited about this year. As I said before, to me they are two big moves and maybe one small move away from being a legitimate contender. You give me this line up. I'm good.

 

Ennis - #1 Center - Vanek

Hecht - Roy - Pominville

Kennedy - fast, gritty third line center - Grier

Gerbe/ Kassian - Gaustad- Kaletta

 

#1 point man- Myers

Lydman - Montador

Weber-Butler/Sekera

Rivet

 

Miller

??

[SabresneedaCup]

I like Ruff.I think he's grown as a coach and adapted somewhat to the league as it seems to work now. i.e. how to deal with todays players and systems etc. But regier has had an incredible window of opportunity to do a job and he's been unable to do that job. I am the first to admit he's had a certain level of success but it's not the level of success he was hired for. Ultimatly he was hired to bring a cup to Buffalo. He's had 12 years to do it and he has'nt. When he started with Buffalo he had a 5 year plan. When does he finish his 5 year plan and how much longer do you give him?

the stuff about lindy changeing his style is crap. he didnt change, the nhl changed after the lockout and its just so happened that we had the players to be a good team.

[SabresneedaCup]

I used to believe you make your own luck, but in my older years I have turned that into what you do with the luck you are given. I relate it to an old colleague of mine from my retail days. He was basically demoted by being transferred to Niagara Falls one year and went kicking and screaming. Of course, a year after he went the change in the value of the Canadian dollare resulted in a deluge of "new" Canadian business and he was given a heroes send off when he retired. Now he worked his butt off when his luck provided him with the opportunity, but he would grudgingly tell you he was in the right place at the right time.

 

Two more points. Off the top of my head I can't think of one champion where I thought it was coaching alone that made the ultimate difference. Certainly coaches had a hand in the success, but to me its always the players.

 

Two, I think there was a lot to be excited about this year. As I said before, to me they are two big moves and maybe one small move away from being a legitimate contender. You give me this line up. I'm good.

 

Ennis - #1 Center - Vanek

Hecht - Roy - Pominville

Kennedy - fast, gritty third line center - Grier

Gerbe/ Kassian - Gaustad- Kaletta

 

#1 point man- Myers

Lydman - Montador

Weber-Butler/Sekera

Rivet

 

Miller

??

who do you think should get the blame for this past year, regier, ruff or the players?

[tom webster]

who do you think should get the blame for this past year, regier, ruff or the players?

 

 

What exactly are we blaming them for?

[SabresneedaCup]

What exactly are we blaming them for?

for the letdown this past playoffs and i guess you could include the last couple of years too. also do you not think the sabres should change something?

[shrader]

for the letdown this past playoffs and i guess you could include the last couple of years too. also do you not think the sabres should change something?

 

Did you miss the lineup changes that TW was calling for?

[Sabre Dance]

The Sabres' issues are organizational. You now have what is essentially an absentee owner. You have a business guy (Quinn) who thinks he is a hockey guy and thus is fairly ineffectual. This "new" regime retained the GM and coach under the guise of "stability in the organization". The Sabres now have the same status quo mentality that the rest of Western New York is imbued with. (No need for massive changes. Everything is good; we just need a little tweaking here and there. This has led to an underdeveloped waterfront - Isn't LQ in on this, too? among other recent "failures to launch". (e.g., the new Peace Bridge, the Seneca Casino/Hotel, etc.)

 

Since none of the front office staff are under fear of losing their jobs (Quinn is a part owner, Darcy and Lindy had multi-year contracts), they don't feel overly pressured to succeed. This lackluster attitude has apparently trickled down to the players (Miller and Myers are the exceptions). So, you wound up with a team that played just well enough to win a weak division, and then got creamed in the first round of the playoffs (you know, where their intensity is supposed to go UP).

 

There needs to be a little cage rattling down at the arena. If OSP gave notice to the FO that it is time to perform or be replaced, maybe the status quo would change a bit. There is a reason no other NHL team has had the same GM/head coach combo for 13 seasons... In the time that the current regime has been in place, several other teams (Carolina, Tampa, Anaheim, Chicago, Pittsburgh) have completely re-tooled and have won a Cup. So here we still sit, waiting to "celebrate" the teams 40th anniversary. Yay.

[SabresneedaCup]

Did you miss the lineup changes that TW was calling for?

i saw those but i want to see that and ruff fired.

[Kristian]

You honestly think that changing coaches would have resulted in a Stanley Cup? Pittsburgh won because they had the horses.

 

You're not reading what I'm saying.

 

My remark about Pittsburgh changing coaches has nothing to do with the Sabres situation, and was just in response to your Bill Cowher remark. Like I said - Both are equally useless in this argument.

 

My point being, for every instance where hanging on to a coach worked out, I can find one where canning the coach worked out, and vice versa.. I'm sure you can do the same the other way around, and what does that teach us? Nothing.

 

It's about what the Sabres do, not what everyone else does.

[SwampD]

I used to believe you make your own luck, but in my older years I have turned that into what you do with the luck you are given. I relate it to an old colleague of mine from my retail days. He was basically demoted by being transferred to Niagara Falls one year and went kicking and screaming. Of course, a year after he went the change in the value of the Canadian dollare resulted in a deluge of "new" Canadian business and he was given a heroes send off when he retired. Now he worked his butt off when his luck provided him with the opportunity, but he would grudgingly tell you he was in the right place at the right time.

 

Two more points. Off the top of my head I can't think of one champion where I thought it was coaching alone that made the ultimate difference. Certainly coaches had a hand in the success, but to me its always the players.

 

Two, I think there was a lot to be excited about this year. As I said before, to me they are two big moves and maybe one small move away from being a legitimate contender. You give me this line up. I'm good.

 

Ennis - #1 Center - Vanek

Hecht - Roy - Pominville

Kennedy - fast, gritty third line center - Grier

Gerbe/ Kassian - Gaustad- Kaletta

 

#1 point man- Myers

Lydman - Montador

Weber-Butler/Sekera

Rivet

 

Miller

??

In theory this sounds great, in fact, it's probably what 90% of the teams are looking for, but who are these players and how do we get them. That's what I don't see happening and that is why I can't get excited about next year.

[Stoner]

What exactly are we blaming them for?

 

Were you that impressed by last season? They took advantage of a soft early schedule and Miller's Olympic push (which ended weeks before the actual Olympics) to seemingly run away with, then hang on to, the division. The second half, and then some, was mediocre.

[shrader]

Were you that impressed by last season? They took advantage of a soft early schedule and Miller's Olympic push (which ended weeks before the actual Olympics) to seemingly run away with, then hang on to, the division. The second half, and then some, was mediocre.

 

By the standards we're seeing around here, there are at least 22 teams in the NHL that have to fire their entire front office and coaching staff. Now I know it's not quite that simple, but people really need to back away from the edge just a bit.

[static70]

what im saying is that even the years we dont make the playoffs, we only miss them by a few points meaning since hes been our gm we have been a team thats almost always over 500 when the season ends.

I don't disagree with anything you have stated here, and in no way am I advocating the Darcy is the worse GM I've seen. I merely pointing out that after 13 seasons and no Stanley Cup, the decisions he has made overall have not proven successful.

I guess it was the Drury/Briere fiasco combined with how much time him and Ruff have had with the organization that I really started to question Quinn and Galisano's decision to keep them on. I'm sure both Regier and Ruff are nice guys and both have hockey backgrounds. I am not sure what the pinpointed reason is for the lack of ultimate success, I've always had the opinion that adversity in conjuction with a failed plan or a failure to implement the plan through various situations has led to their short comings.

[Stoner]

By the standards we're seeing around here, there are at least 22 teams in the NHL that have to fire their entire front office and coaching staff. Now I know it's not quite that simple, but people really need to back away from the edge just a bit.

 

Is wanting to change coaches after 13 years really being "on the ledge"?

 

I'll repeat another big part of the debate: isn't being a sports fan supposed to be fun, and isn't change/hope one of the fun things about being a sports fan?

 

Would you be tiring of President Bill Clinton by now if he were still in the White House? The top TV show when Ruff took over probably was Friends.

 

Ruff should be fired on merit -- but also for the sheer mercy of putting him and a lot of us out of our misery.

[tom webster]

You're not reading what I'm saying.

 

My remark about Pittsburgh changing coaches has nothing to do with the Sabres situation, and was just in response to your Bill Cowher remark. Like I said - Both are equally useless in this argument.

 

My point being, for every instance where hanging on to a coach worked out, I can find one where canning the coach worked out, and vice versa.. I'm sure you can do the same the other way around, and what does that teach us? Nothing.

 

It's about what the Sabres do, not what everyone else does.

 

 

That is statistically not true. There are far more cannings that have little to no effect, but I agree that's not the point.

[tom webster]

Is wanting to change coaches after 13 years really being "on the ledge"?

 

I'll repeat another big part of the debate: isn't being a sports fan supposed to be fun, and isn't change/hope one of the fun things about being a sports fan?Would you be tiring of President Bill Clinton by now if he were still in the White House? The top TV show when Ruff took over probably was Friends.

 

Ruff should be fired on merit -- but also for the sheer mercy of putting him and a lot of us out of our misery.

 

 

Its funny, the same posters that scream at athletes who are perceived as money hungry mercenaries with no sense of loyalty are bored by teams who may be too loyal.

 

As for this season, would you rather be the Hurricaines who were great after January? People seem to not understand that the season is about maximizing your success however you need that to play out. Teams that miss the playoffs point to excuses why this team suceeded and they didn't. History is full of teams that play better when there is nothing on the line.

 

The Sabres put themselves in a position to suceed in the playoffs. Unfortunately, they came up short. People seem to think that they were somehow entitled to win and somehow gave it away. Detroit was ready to run Yzerman out of town after the failure that was the 1993 and 1994 playoff losses( I hope I got the years right). Its a process. Sometimes teams win their first shot, but usually it comes after a little failure. This team's failure had nothing to do with what happened 5 or 6 years ago. This version of the team is three years old and evolving.

[SwampD]

Its funny, the same posters that scream at athletes who are perceived as money hungry mercenaries with no sense of loyalty are bored by teams who may be too loyal.

 

As for this season, would you rather be the Hurricaines who were great after January? People seem to not understand that the season is about maximizing your success however you need that to play out. Teams that miss the playoffs point to excuses why this team suceeded and they didn't. History is full of teams that play better when there is nothing on the line.

 

The Sabres put themselves in a position to suceed in the playoffs. Unfortunately, they came up short. People seem to think that they were somehow entitled to win and somehow gave it away. Detroit was ready to run Yzerman out of town after the failure that was the 1993 and 1994 playoff losses( I hope I got the years right). Its a process. Sometimes teams win their first shot, but usually it comes after a little failure. This team's failure had nothing to do with what happened 5 or 6 years ago. This version of the team is three years old and evolving.

You sir, have the patience of Job. How long do you give them? One more year? Two more? When will it be alright to for us to be frustrated by the status quo?

 

You are right, they put themselves in the position to succeed in the playoffs. So, what do they do? Raffi Torres. That's their big push to take them over the edge and take advantage of a great season by Miller.

 

It's not loyalty that I'm bored with. It's their style of play and seeing the same mistakes made over and over. To say that we are on the edge (I know that wasn't you, TW) because we want to see real change after 12 years (or even 3) is absolutely ridiculious.

[tom webster]

You sir, have the patience of Job. How long do you give them? One more year? Two more? When will it be alright to for us to be frustrated by the status quo?

 

You are right, they put themselves in the position to succeed in the playoffs. So, what do they do? Raffi Torres. That's their big push to take them over the edge and take advantage of a great season by Miller.

 

It's not loyalty that I'm bored with. It's their style of play and seeing the same mistakes made over and over. To say that we are on the edge because we want to see real change after 12 years (or even 3) is absolutely ridiculious.

 

 

This would be it for me. No "significant additions," this off season no more patience. I fully expect 2 big acquisitions. Time will tell, but there was a big sense of disappointment with how sone players came up short.

 

As for when is it alright to be frustrated, I already said somewhere that I understand the frustration and I am frustrated too. However, I won't let my frustration of the CD/DB fiasco color my opinion of this squad.

[Stoner]

Its funny, the same posters that scream at athletes who are perceived as money hungry mercenaries with no sense of loyalty are bored by teams who may be too loyal.

 

As for this season, would you rather be the Hurricaines who were great after January? People seem to not understand that the season is about maximizing your success however you need that to play out. Teams that miss the playoffs point to excuses why this team suceeded and they didn't. History is full of teams that play better when there is nothing on the line.

 

The Sabres put themselves in a position to suceed in the playoffs. Unfortunately, they came up short. People seem to think that they were somehow entitled to win and somehow gave it away. Detroit was ready to run Yzerman out of town after the failure that was the 1993 and 1994 playoff losses( I hope I got the years right). Its a process. Sometimes teams win their first shot, but usually it comes after a little failure. This team's failure had nothing to do with what happened 5 or 6 years ago. This version of the team is three years old and evolving.

They better hurry. Darcy claims they turn the squad over every four to five years.

 

Yeah, I'd rather be the Hurricanes because they can carry that momentum into next season. The Sabres feel to me like a team that could be on the verge of tumbling down the standings big time.

 

I don't think they put themselves in any position to have postseason success and that was borne out in the playoffs. The last six games of the season was a continuation of a second half collapse after being near the top of the league in January. That record through 40-50 games meant nothing come Game 1 in Buffalo.

[shrader]

Yeah, I'd rather be the Hurricanes because they can carry that momentum into next season. The Sabres feel to me like a team that could be on the verge of tumbling down the standings big time.

 

Carolina finished strong last year, riding that all the way to the conference finals. How did that momentum work out for them?

[tom webster]

They better hurry. Darcy claims they turn the squad over every four to five years.

 

Yeah, I'd rather be the Hurricanes because they can carry that momentum into next season. The Sabres feel to me like a team that could be on the verge of tumbling down the standings big time.

 

I don't think they put themselves in any position to have postseason success and that was borne out in the playoffs. The last six games of the season was a continuation of a second half collapse after being near the top of the league in January. That record through 40-50 games meant nothing come Game 1 in Buffalo.

 

 

You seem to want it both ways. The record means nothing but it means everything. The first 40 games don't count for Buffalo, the last 40 count for Carolina. If all that matters is April through June, why don't you just wait till then to comment again?