Eric Staal to the Buffalo Sabres

[static70]

The debate on whether a player is tradable or not (even with a NMC or NTC) is a red herring. The real debate is on what player(s) are to be targeted and at what price.

Since I am the OP, i've already stated, "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead".

To attempt to take any other posture is exactly what DeLuca says it is, "The Status Quo". And, as some have pointed out, sticking his head in the sand (Regier) is no longer an option.

 

40 years without a Stanley Cup, pathetic, just pathetic.

The time to strike is now, Miller is peaking.

 

The title of the thread is on Eric Staal, I've submitted a prilimanary package I would offer. Tweak it, change it, scrub it and put a new one in place, but what are peoples thoughts on what fair value it would take.

[deluca67]

And really, what veteran from a losing team wouldn't want the chance to come to the Sabres and play for an elite coach.

You won't know until you ask. That is all I am saying. Don't tell me a player is untouchable until the Sabres call and ask. Who here at the beginning of the year thought Dion Phaneuf would be traded?

[SwampD]

You won't know until you ask. That is all I am saying. Don't tell me a player is untouchable until the Sabres call and ask. Who here at the beginning of the year thought Dion Phaneuf would be traded?

I guess my sarcasm wasn't thick enough. I agree with you. I really think we could get Iguinla. If we tried.

[BetweenThePipes00]

There is nothing to explain.

They lost Cullen, Brind'Amour is sure to be gone, they need to revamp their team, regardless of the last half of this past season.

They have been on the decline since the Cup victory.

 

I will submit there are some interchangable components that could be done, i.e. Connolly in lieu of Roy, Pomminstein in lieu of Stafford and so on, but, at the end of the day, if you throw enough at them, they'll take it.

 

As the initial post I put up asked, what does your package look like to land him.

 

(And on a side note, those that are proposing Sharp or someone similiar as an answer to a Cup Contention for the Sabres, you can hang it up, not even close. This team needs a number 1 center, Staal is my primary choice, Brad Richards would be another. Are guys like this expensive, you bet your sweet arse they are)

 

I guess we just think differently ... I look at the list you proposed and think "Sure that's probably fair for Staal, but I would never do it in a million years if I was the Carolina GM." You know what you have if you do that deal? You pretty much have the 2009-2010 Buffalo Sabres. But without a Tyler Myers on your blue line. Derek Roy as your top center ... Stafford on his wing ... hoping Kennedy or Gerbe develops .... frustrated by Butler or Sekera ... and waiting for Adam or Kassian. Geez, where do I sign up?

 

Now you will tell me to come up with a better offer, and I will tell you again, I don't think there is one. In my OPINION, they are not trading the guy. Why is it such a crime to have that opinion? We agree Darcy needs to do SOMETHING and he probably won't and a guy like Staal would be great. Why do I HAVE to agree with you guys that there is some magic package that the famous "GM other than Darcy" would surely be able to put together?

[static70]

I guess we just think differently ... I look at the list you proposed and think "Sure that's probably fair for Staal, but I would never do it in a million years if I was the Carolina GM." You know what you have if you do that deal? You pretty much have the 2009-2010 Buffalo Sabres. But without a Tyler Myers on your blue line. Derek Roy as your top center ... Stafford on his wing ... hoping Kennedy or Gerbe develops .... frustrated by Butler or Sekera ... and waiting for Adam or Kassian. Geez, where do I sign up?

 

Now you will tell me to come up with a better offer, and I will tell you again, I don't think there is one. In my OPINION, they are not trading the guy. Why is it such a crime to have that opinion? We agree Darcy needs to do SOMETHING and he probably won't and a guy like Staal would be great. Why do I HAVE to agree with you guys that there is some magic package that the famous "GM other than Darcy" would surely be able to put together?

There is not one thing wrong with taking that stance, or having and expressing that opinion BTP. You asked me in your earlier post to explain why Carolina would do this, I responded by stating my beliefs on their current situation.

And yes, I fully understand and am aware that Darcy has never done a move of this nature in the past. I am of the opinion he is aware his job is on the line. I am also of the opinion that the small moves and blatant mistakes of the past have put him under alot of pressure to do something. ######, I'll even go so far as to say Ruff is aware his job is tied to what Darcy does, since they both only have a year on their respective deals.

 

Does any of this mean Eric Staal is coming to Buffalo? No, but, I put the post up because I firmly believe he is the caliber of player needed here in Buffalo, and the Sabres organization happens to have enough assets on hand to get him.

I think I stated this before, but no player is untouchable, Myers, Miller, Vanek and the list can go on. I am not interested in player loyalty after 40 years without a Stanley Cup, I am only interested in that Championship, and preferrably before I stop breathing.

[gregkash]

I have no doubt Carolina would deal Staal if the right package were assembled.

 

My package would be hefty, but fair in value.

 

To Buf

Eric Staal

 

To Car

Derek Roy

Drew Stafford

Nathan Gerbe/Tim Kennedy

Andrej Sekera/Chris Butler

Zack Kassian/Luke Adam

1st rd pick 2010

2nd rd pick 2011

 

If thats what it takes, do it.

We need a Young Stud center, Carolina needs a team to replace their aging roster.

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

im so glad you guys aren't GMs, we'd have 3 super star players and no one else.

[SwampD]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

im so glad you guys aren't GMs, we'd have 3 super star players and no one else.

As opposed to only 2 and no one else?

[Stoner]

I like this, but I would rather go go after Iguinla. I know he's not a center but it's probably more likely to happen and we could get him for less. That's a team that is looking to rebuild (or, is rebuilding).

Bad hernia history.

[chileanseabass]

I can't see Carolina moving Staal anytime soon, especially since they just traded with Phoenix for his younger brother.

 

As a former Tampa Bay season ticket holder, I don't want Brad Richards. He's infuriating. If you think Connolly is soft, Richards is his more durable twin. For the money he's paid, I don't think he's worth it.

 

Patrick Sharp from Chicago is not THE answer, but is a dependable two-way player the Sabres could pick up, and I think he would definitely make an impact on this team, especially on the PP. Chicago has impending cap problems, and Sharp would be a good option.

[nfreeman]

I'll ask you the same question. Why stop at Stall? Staal is not Crosby or Ovechkin. Are you so beaten down by Status Quo that the idea of the Sabres making a actual hockey trade is so offensive? Why is it so wrong for fans to want to talk about the Sabres acquiring a actual hockey player. It takes some of us a lot more than a Steve Montador to get our hockey sticks rigid.

No one is offended by the idea of Eric Staal. I am sure we would all love to have him. I agree with static that he would be great for Vanek and would help in every way. The problem is Carolina is not trading him, not for any realistic combination of players/picks the Sabres have to offer. If the Sabres suck so badly and are too small and all that, what the ###### would Carolina want with Ennis and Roy? The Sabres could offer Myers and Miller for Staal and Ward and I am not even sure they would do it. I suppose they might, but it's not at all realistic. It's so easy to say "give away the farm," but you're not giving it away, you are asking for the other team to give you their franchise player.

I totally agree the Sabres need to make some "actual hockey trades," (and that DR is unlikely to make enough to satisfy us), but Carolina is not in such a bad place that they are desperate to shake things up and trade the face of their franchise. They were actually really good down the stretch last season. There are plenty of more realistic possibilities, starting with Patrick Sharp in Chicago, maybe. (He's not Staal, but he's better than anything the Sabres have and the Hawks need to shed salary.)

Beat me to it.

 

Here's a news flash: Carolina isn't trading Staal and Pittsburgh isn't trading Malkin, and it has nothing to do with Darcy not having the "stones" to "make the call." What a load of nonsense. Does anyone pushing for this have a real job in the real world that involves dealing with other real people?

 

As for why not make the call -- if you have your eye on a new car, do you walk into a car dealership and offer $10K for a $30K vehicle? Of course not, because no one will take you seriously if you do. DR needs to make some moves. He knows it and he's said it. He can't blow his credibility by offering a bunch of mediocrities and draft picks for a franchise player in his prime. If he does, the other GMs won't take his calls.

 

 

 

I like this, but I would rather go go after Iguinla. I know he's not a center but it's probably more likely to happen and we could get him for less. That's a team that is looking to rebuild (or, is rebuilding).

Much more realistic.

 

You won't know until you ask. That is all I am saying. Don't tell me a player is untouchable until the Sabres call and ask. Who here at the beginning of the year thought Dion Phaneuf would be traded?

Phaneuf isn't in the same category as Staal. Not even close. And there was plenty of criticism of Phaneuf during 08-09 and in the following summer.

 

Now, if you want to say that DR should be in the mix when players like Pronger, Phaneuf, Ryan Smyth, etc are put on the trade market -- I agree 100%. But it is ridiculous to push for trades involving another team's franchise player who clearly isn't going to be traded, and even more ridiculous to criticize a GM for not pushing to make it happen.

 

 

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Bad hernia history.

 

It was Freudian....

 

You think Darcy, you think retracted balls.

[bob_sauve28]

The problem is that the Sabres and many of the fans are too small minded to even comprehend a move you like you are proposing. Staal, Getzlaf, Kovi, Lecavalier and every other quality player, free agent or not, should be targets of this franchise. Unfortunately we have a GM that prefers to dumpster dive instead of thinking big and making a impact.

Yes,if only we were more like the Rangers :blink:

[bob_sauve28]

Beat me to it.

 

Here's a news flash: Carolina isn't trading Staal and Pittsburgh isn't trading Malkin, and it has nothing to do with Darcy not having the "stones" to "make the call." What a load of nonsense. Does anyone pushing for this have a real job in the real world that involves dealing with other real people?

 

As for why not make the call -- if you have your eye on a new car, do you walk into a car dealership and offer $10K for a $30K vehicle? Of course not, because no one will take you seriously if you do. DR needs to make some moves. He knows it and he's said it. He can't blow his credibility by offering a bunch of mediocrities and draft picks for a franchise player in his prime. If he does, the other GMs won't take his calls.

 

 

 

 

Much more realistic.

 

 

Phaneuf isn't in the same category as Staal. Not even close. And there was plenty of criticism of Phaneuf during 08-09 and in the following summer.

 

Now, if you want to say that DR should be in the mix when players like Pronger, Phaneuf, Ryan Smyth, etc are put on the trade market -- I agree 100%. But it is ridiculous to push for trades involving another team's franchise player who clearly isn't going to be traded, and even more ridiculous to criticize a GM for not pushing to make it happen.

I'm still scratching my head over the Phaneuf trade. I do think Toronto stole him. We could only be so lucky to pull off a trade like that. They rarely happen

[nfreeman]

I'm still scratching my head over the Phaneuf trade. I do think Toronto stole him. We could only be so lucky to pull off a trade like that. They rarely happen

 

I agree -- that was a complete panic move by Calgary. They didn't get good value in return. Again, though, Phaneuf is nowhere near a franchise player like Staal.

[static70]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

im so glad you guys aren't GMs, we'd have 3 super star players and no one else.

Right!

Because our current GM has done a magnificant job of winning championships here. :wallbash:

[static70]

I'm still scratching my head over the Phaneuf trade. I do think Toronto stole him. We could only be so lucky to pull off a trade like that. They rarely happen

Every NHL insider equally agree this was a fair value trade for both sides. I fail to see how Calgary lost in this deal. Phaneuf wasn't the impact player everyone believed he was on a consistant basis and Calgary was trying to fit pieces in that may fit in the system.

Was it a risk? Yes.

Did it pay off? Way to early to tell.

Are they atleast making attempts to find the right chemistry on the roster to contend? Absolutely.

I take my hat off to both GM's in Calgary as well as Toronto, atleast they aren't afraid to implement change.

[nfreeman]

Every NHL insider equally agree this was a fair value trade for both sides. I fail to see how Calgary lost in this deal. Phaneuf wasn't the impact player everyone believed he was on a consistant basis and Calgary was trying to fit pieces in that may fit in the system.

Was it a risk? Yes.

Did it pay off? Way to early to tell.

Are they atleast making attempts to find the right chemistry on the roster to contend? Absolutely.

I take my hat off to both GM's in Calgary as well as Toronto, atleast they aren't afraid to implement change.

 

Nonsense. Reaction among knowledgeable hockey people was just the opposite. This is what Eric Duhatschek (senior hockey writer for the Globe and Mail, who has covered the Flames for years) said:

 

The pressure is on – to make the playoffs and then win some rounds when, or if, they get there. But this isn’t enough for a core asset, not nearly enough - and cannot be explained away as simply a move to shed $6.5-million (U.S.) worth of Phaneuf’s annual salary. On some levels, it looks like a panic move, borne out of desperation for a quick fix.

 

Here's Adam Proteau of the Hockey News: (linkage)

 

You can argue Darryl Sutter pushed the panic button this week, but that would be like saying the cast of Jersey Shore are slightly narcissistic. In both instances, the truth is tons more troubling. This time, Sutter smashed the panic button like a Mack Truck grill barreling into a bug.

Damien Cox of the Toronto Star: (link)

it's hard to find a hockey person who thinks this was anything but a peculiar, one-sided deal. You could argue that the Leafs haven't missed and won't miss any of the four players sent to the Flames – Ian White, Matt Stajan, Jamal Mayers and Niklas Hagman – while Phaneuf has been a godsend, a blue-line stud who has played more than 25 minutes in each of the club's last nine games.

Need more?

More importantly, Calgary continues to fall apart as a result of making panicked, ill-conceived moves. If this is the kind of trade you want the Sabres to make -- i.e. "just blow it up" and "at least they're not afraid of change" -- it will be a long time before anything good happens with this team.

[bob_sauve28]

Nonsense. Reaction among knowledgeable hockey people was just the opposite. This is what Eric Duhatschek (senior hockey writer for the Globe and Mail, who has covered the Flames for years) said:

 

Here's Adam Proteau of the Hockey News: (linkage)

 

Damien Cox of the Toronto Star: (link)

Need more?

More importantly, Calgary continues to fall apart as a result of making panicked, ill-conceived moves. If this is the kind of trade you want the Sabres to make -- i.e. "just blow it up" and "at least they're not afraid of change" -- it will be a long time before anything good happens with this team.

I watched him play one game with Toronto and knew the Leafs got a great* player. Those players Toronto got rid of may have been decent,but none of them are signed for very long. Calgary really messed up, IMO. You do not let players like that walk.

 

 

* No, not Wayne Gretzkey great, but an upper echelon player.

[SwampD]

Nonsense. Reaction among knowledgeable hockey people was just the opposite. This is what Eric Duhatschek (senior hockey writer for the Globe and Mail, who has covered the Flames for years) said:

 

Here's Adam Proteau of the Hockey News: (linkage)

 

Damien Cox of the Toronto Star: (link)

Need more?

More importantly, Calgary continues to fall apart as a result of making panicked, ill-conceived moves. If this is the kind of trade you want the Sabres to make -- i.e. "just blow it up" and "at least they're not afraid of change" -- it will be a long time before anything good happens with this team.

Let's wait to see what fruit these moves bear first, though, before judging them. The same thing was being said about Montreal not too long ago. And at least they are demanding, and getting, change after only missing the playoffs one year. I can't imagine what they would do with this current Sabres regime (and by current I mean a decade plus).

[static70]

Nonsense. Reaction among knowledgeable hockey people was just the opposite. This is what Eric Duhatschek (senior hockey writer for the Globe and Mail, who has covered the Flames for years) said:

 

Here's Adam Proteau of the Hockey News: (linkage)

 

Damien Cox of the Toronto Star: (link)

Need more?

More importantly, Calgary continues to fall apart as a result of making panicked, ill-conceived moves. If this is the kind of trade you want the Sabres to make -- i.e. "just blow it up" and "at least they're not afraid of change" -- it will be a long time before anything good happens with this team.

I can find equally written articles that show a move was necessary, from the stand point of both teams.

ESPN's article not withstanding (because we all know ESPN has such credible coverage of the NHL), the bottom line is both teams desired change in the lineup. It was a necessary trade from both teams stand point, and to receive the players that Calgary did in White and Stajan with some potential from those players, I would say the possible point total from the 4 players from Toronto currently out paces Phaneuf, and since Phaneuf was not meshing well with J BO, the organization (in my opinion) wisely went with J BO.

 

In short, Phaneuf will never be J BO, and was expendable.

It really isn't rocket science to figure this out.

[deluca67]

Beat me to it.

 

Here's a news flash: Carolina isn't trading Staal and Pittsburgh isn't trading Malkin, and it has nothing to do with Darcy not having the "stones" to "make the call." What a load of nonsense. Does anyone pushing for this have a real job in the real world that involves dealing with other real people?

 

As for why not make the call -- if you have your eye on a new car, do you walk into a car dealership and offer $10K for a $30K vehicle? Of course not, because no one will take you seriously if you do. DR needs to make some moves. He knows it and he's said it. He can't blow his credibility by offering a bunch of mediocrities and draft picks for a franchise player in his prime. If he does, the other GMs won't take his calls.

 

 

 

 

Much more realistic.

 

 

Phaneuf isn't in the same category as Staal. Not even close. And there was plenty of criticism of Phaneuf during 08-09 and in the following summer.

 

Now, if you want to say that DR should be in the mix when players like Pronger, Phaneuf, Ryan Smyth, etc are put on the trade market -- I agree 100%. But it is ridiculous to push for trades involving another team's franchise player who clearly isn't going to be traded, and even more ridiculous to criticize a GM for not pushing to make it happen.

The only thing that is ridiculous is defending a GM that refuses to use all the tools available to improve his hockey team. Pronger, Phaneuf and Ryan Smith are as big of pipe dreams as Stall is. Under Regier even a Matt Cullen would be a pipe dream. You can't win a Stanley Cup when you take your team out of the market for 90-95% of the players in the league. It's not something that should be excused away. This thread may be title Eric Staal but you can really place any quality players name their and the thread would look the same. Fans clamoring for a GM to make a impact move and others excusing away why he doesn't.

 

If Regier can shock the world and make some real impact moves I will give him credit if due. Not Rivet, Grier or Montador moves. I mean real impact. I wonder if the summer goes buy and this teams goes into next season looking basically the same will any of the Status Quo excuse makers call for his firing?

[deluca67]

 

- it will be a long time before anything good happens with this team.

They're on that road already.

[Stoner]

The Regier Doctine has been established. He owned it during the postseason presser. He builds a team for regular season success -- defined as top 8 in the league, then hopes it catches lightning in the playoffs.

 

His stat about how no team can win the Cup without being in the Top 8 almost bit the dust in the form of the Flyers. If Philly's success is a sign of where the league not only is, but is headed, again we have a GM caught with his pants down.

[nfreeman]

I can find equally written articles that show a move was necessary, from the stand point of both teams.

ESPN's article not withstanding (because we all know ESPN has such credible coverage of the NHL), the bottom line is both teams desired change in the lineup. It was a necessary trade from both teams stand point, and to receive the players that Calgary did in White and Stajan with some potential from those players, I would say the possible point total from the 4 players from Toronto currently out paces Phaneuf, and since Phaneuf was not meshing well with J BO, the organization (in my opinion) wisely went with J BO.

 

In short, Phaneuf will never be J BO, and was expendable.

It really isn't rocket science to figure this out.

If you can find articles from reputable sources saying it was an even trade, go ahead and post them. I posted 3 of the most reputable hockey publications anywhere (none of which, btw, was espn -- not sure where you got that). Calgary gave up a flawed but still very talented young player and got a bunch of mediocre losers from a loser team.

 

As for bouwmeester, he was a huge disappointment for Calgary this year (as big ticket UFAs often are). An Phaneuf wasn't traded because he couldn't coexist with bouwmeester. He was traded in a panicked, desperate move to shake up a mediocre team. It didn't work.

[static70]

If you can find articles from reputable sources saying it was an even trade, go ahead and post them. I posted 3 of the most reputable hockey publications anywhere (none of which, btw, was espn -- not sure where you got that). Calgary gave up a flawed but still very talented young player and got a bunch of mediocre losers from a loser team.

 

As for bouwmeester, he was a huge disappointment for Calgary this year (as big ticket UFAs often are). An Phaneuf wasn't traded because he couldn't coexist with bouwmeester. He was traded in a panicked, desperate move to shake up a mediocre team. It didn't work.

Here, from a local Calgary source, that I am dead set sure, knows a ###### of alot more about Phaneuf than national beat writers, considering they watched him play his entire time in Calgary.

 

Brian Costello - The Hockey News

http://www.metronews.ca/calgary/comment/article/420834--here-s-why-the-flames-should-trade-phaneuf

 

Pay close attention to the following statement:

 

"Phaneuf’s game has gone downhill since and he’s no longer talked about as even a distant candidate for the Norris Trophy."

 

Oh, and this follow up bueaty as well:

 

"He isn’t even a top three defenceman on the Flames. Most of his miscues are mental lapses and its unlikely he’s going to all of a sudden get smarter. Nevertheless, there’s a demand for his skills at 24. Trade him now before he gets older and before the rest of the league learns more about him."

 

Now, granted, this was Jan. 13th, 2010, but, He did get a chance to watch Phaneuf for 4 seasons, oh, and ah, that little tidbit about the Norris, is correct.

 

Granted its only 1 article to your 3, but hey, your guys are beat writers right there in Calgary and had a first hand chance to catch his play quite regularly, right? :rolleyes:

 

The post is on Eric Staal, not Deon Phaneuf, lets move past these red herrings that keep getting throwin out there to distract from the plain and simple truth, if you offer Carolina enough, they'll wheel and deal, regardless of semantics.