Kaberle

[SabresneedaCup]

Oh, poor Kotalik, he's been surrounded by bad coaches. He could have been a hall of famer!

yeah cause thats what i said...not.

[tom webster]

they cant block every single one of his shots. and if they collapsed on kotalik that would leave the rest of our team open hence kotalik being more valueable than people think.

 

 

The guy had the talent to be one of the best and the heart to be a poster boy for unfulfilled talent. He was strictly a perimeter player who stayed away from the front of the net,

[SabresneedaCup]

The guy had the talent to be one of the best and the heart to be a poster boy for unfulfilled talent. He was strictly a perimeter player who stayed away from the front of the net,

so what he was great at that he didnt have to be anything more.

[tom webster]

so what he was great at that he didnt have to be anything more.

 

 

Which is why he's near the end of the line at 32 years old. 11 goals in 71 games this year.

[SabresneedaCup]

Which is why he's near the end of the line at 32 years old. 11 goals in 71 games this year.

oh well man he could have stayed and been our powerplay qb. bottom line im sayin i dont think he was that bad. theres no way hes worse than stafford.

[Kristian]

i agree and kotalik probly wouldnt have dropped off so much if arniel didnt leave.

 

The Sabres PP stunk just fine with Arniel as well.

 

2005-2007 appears more and more as being pure flukes, especially considering how our our PP stunk in the 2007 playoffs.

[shrader]

they cant block every single one of his shots. and if they collapsed on kotalik that would leave the rest of our team open hence kotalik being more valueable than people think.

 

I've already said a couple times that our lack of a good pointman is what killed the powerplay this year. He's part of that equation I think. Anyway, it's not so much about collapsing specifically on Kotalik. The forwards can play a little tighter to the blue line and you're going to limit both guys on the point. This league is all about defensive scheming. These coaches are more than smart enough to neutralize a one dimensional guy like that. The players that thrive bring a lot more to the table than just that one aspect.

[SabresneedaCup]

I've already said a couple times that our lack of a good pointman is what killed the powerplay this year. He's part of that equation I think. Anyway, it's not so much about collapsing specifically on Kotalik. The forwards can play a little tighter to the blue line and you're going to limit both guys on the point. This league is all about defensive scheming. These coaches are more than smart enough to neutralize a one dimensional guy like that. The players that thrive bring a lot more to the table than just that one aspect.

yeah but that would still leve guys open, and obviously its better when players bring more to the table.

[SabresneedaCup]

The Sabres PP stunk just fine with Arniel as well.

 

2005-2007 appears more and more as being pure flukes, especially considering how our our PP stunk in the 2007 playoffs.

the powerplay did not stink with arniel and he left after 05 06

[Kristian]

the powerplay did not stink with arniel and he left after 05 06

 

Yes it did.

 

He joined in 2002 :

 

2002-2003 = 20th (PP% 14.4)

2003-2004 = 18th (PP% 15.8)

2005-2006 = 3rd (PP% 21.2)

 

Compared to this year :

 

2009-2010 = 17th (PP% 17.6)

 

So if we feel 17th isn't a good spot to be in when it comes to the PP, I think it's safe to say Arniel wasn't the savior some seem to remember him as.

 

Fact is our PP was even worse in two out of the three seasons he was here.

 

In fact, the only good season they had with him was the first year out of the lockout, where you couldn't interfere or clutch and grab. Something which was to the smallish finesse players advantage, of which Buffalo had a ton.

 

So how much of that one good season was the officiating, and how much was Arniel? Well, considering that once the playoffs started, where the refs slowly started to swallow their whistles especially on interference, our PP was at 17% against Philly, 12.5% against Ottawa and 15.6% against Carolina, I'd say the enforcement of the rules had a lot to do with it.

 

I haven't been able to find it, but I'd really like to see a stat of how many of the Sabres PP goals came on 5 on 3's in the 2005-2006 season.

[spndnchz]

Yes it did.

 

He joined in 2002 :

 

2002-2003 = 20th (PP% 14.4)

2003-2004 = 18th (PP% 15.8)

2005-2006 = 3rd (PP% 21.2)

 

Compared to this year :

 

2009-2010 = 17th (PP% 17.6)

 

So if we feel 17th isn't a good spot to be in when it comes to the PP, I think it's safe to say Arniel wasn't the savior some seem to remember him as.

 

Fact is our PP was even worse in two out of the three seasons he was here.

 

In fact, the only good season they had with him was the first year out of the lockout, where you couldn't interfere or clutch and grab. Something which was to the smallish finesse players advantage, of which Buffalo had a ton.

 

So how much of that one good season was the officiating, and how much was Arniel? Well, considering that once the playoffs started, where the refs slowly started to swallow their whistles especially on interference, our PP was at 17% against Philly, 12.5% against Ottawa and 15.6% against Carolina, I'd say the enforcement of the rules had a lot to do with it.

 

I haven't been able to find it, but I'd really like to see a stat of how many of the Sabres PP goals came on 5 on 3's in the 2005-2006 season.

 

9 of the 59 PPG's scored 5-3. 8 more scored 4-3. 15.25% and 13.56% respectively.

 

I don't think it was solely Arniel that made the PP. U look at those better years you see the leaders in PPG and PPA are Drury/Campbell and Vanek/Spacek. That's what we need. A vet centerman and a PP dman.

[SabresneedaCup]

9 of the 59 PPG's scored 5-3. 8 more scored 4-3. 15.25% and 13.56% respectively.

 

I don't think it was solely Arniel that made the PP. U look at those better years you see the leaders in PPG and PPA are Drury/Campbell and Vanek/Spacek. That's what we need. A vet centerman and a PP dman.

i still think he was a better option than what we have now.

[SabresneedaCup]

Yes it did.

 

He joined in 2002 :

 

2002-2003 = 20th (PP% 14.4)

2003-2004 = 18th (PP% 15.8)

2005-2006 = 3rd (PP% 21.2)

 

Compared to this year :

 

2009-2010 = 17th (PP% 17.6)

 

So if we feel 17th isn't a good spot to be in when it comes to the PP, I think it's safe to say Arniel wasn't the savior some seem to remember him as.

 

Fact is our PP was even worse in two out of the three seasons he was here.

 

In fact, the only good season they had with him was the first year out of the lockout, where you couldn't interfere or clutch and grab. Something which was to the smallish finesse players advantage, of which Buffalo had a ton.

 

So how much of that one good season was the officiating, and how much was Arniel? Well, considering that once the playoffs started, where the refs slowly started to swallow their whistles especially on interference, our PP was at 17% against Philly, 12.5% against Ottawa and 15.6% against Carolina, I'd say the enforcement of the rules had a lot to do with it.

 

I haven't been able to find it, but I'd really like to see a stat of how many of the Sabres PP goals came on 5 on 3's in the 2005-2006 season.

the new rules made our whole team better.

[OTTOnME]

I'm glad to see that there is a thread specifically about Tomas Kaberle.

 

Can we all agree that Darcy Regier shares our conviction that Kaberle would bolster the powerplay in Buffalo? Further, can we all agree that Regier is interested in Kaberle, and - as a result - the Sabres will be one of the teams bidding for him?

 

The problem is that I foresee Regier offering Toronto Chris Butler or Drew Stafford and a second round draft choice. That won't do it. If it isn't Butler or Stafford and a first round pick, or Derek Roy straight up for Kaberle, the Leafs will look elsewhere.

[static70]

I'm glad to see that there is a thread specifically about Tomas Kaberle.

 

Can we all agree that Darcy Regier shares our conviction that Kaberle would bolster the powerplay in Buffalo? Further, can we all agree that Regier is interested in Kaberle, and - as a result - the Sabres will be one of the teams bidding for him?

 

The problem is that I foresee Regier offering Toronto Chris Butler or Drew Stafford and a second round draft choice. That won't do it. If it isn't Butler or Stafford and a first round pick, or Derek Roy straight up for Kaberle, the Leafs will look elsewhere.

After what I just saw Halak (an RFA goalie who performed superb in the playoffs) just went for, I would say regardless of what Burke wants, Butler, Stafford and a 1st rd pick is over payment for a guy with 1 year left on his contract.

 

That being said, I can see Stafford and Butler (both young guys, both in the lineup) or Stafford and 2010 1st rd pick getting it done.

[spndnchz]

I'm glad to see that there is a thread specifically about Tomas Kaberle.

 

Can we all agree that Darcy Regier shares our conviction that Kaberle would bolster the powerplay in Buffalo? Further, can we all agree that Regier is interested in Kaberle, and - as a result - the Sabres will be one of the teams bidding for him?

 

The problem is that I foresee Regier offering Toronto Chris Butler or Drew Stafford and a second round draft choice. That won't do it. If it isn't Butler or Stafford and a first round pick, or Derek Roy straight up for Kaberle, the Leafs will look elsewhere.

 

We all know how Burke works. He puts it out there, offers come back and then he pits team against team until someone gives him way too much for Kaberle. IDT DR's in way too much category, hopefully it's 'just enough'.

[static70]

We all know how Burke works. He puts it out there, offers come back and then he pits team against team until someone gives him way too much for Kaberle. IDT DR's in way too much category, hopefully it's 'just enough'.

I happen to agree, Burke is a master at getting the pieces he wants.

Alot of fans from all over thought he over paid for Kessel given where Toronto's draft pick ended up, but that is hind sight. Kessel is worth the 2 1st rounders he gave away and Burke will build a hard nosed team around him and Phaneuf.

I wasn't a fan of the Phaneuf trade, but then again, as many have pointed out to me, Burke knows what he is doing.

I can see Toronto getting nasty to play against in another couple of seasons.

[shrader]

I happen to agree, Burke is a master at getting the pieces he wants.

Alot of fans from all over thought he over paid for Kessel given where Toronto's draft pick ended up, but that is hind sight. Kessel is worth the 2 1st rounders he gave away and Burke will build a hard nosed team around him and Phaneuf.

I wasn't a fan of the Phaneuf trade, but then again, as many have pointed out to me, Burke knows what he is doing.

I can see Toronto getting nasty to play against in another couple of seasons.

 

I'm not so sure I want to say that. Toronto was going to be no good and Burke knew that. To pay that steep of a price for a guy who was already going to miss significant time due to injury, he paid too much. He was practically bidding against himself during the whole process too. You're always preaching about what is equal value. If you know going in that this year's pick was very likely to be a top 5, would you have thought that was equal value?

[static70]

I'm not so sure I want to say that. Toronto was going to be no good and Burke knew that. To pay that steep of a price for a guy who was already going to miss significant time due to injury, he paid too much. He was practically bidding against himself during the whole process too. You're always preaching about what is equal value. If you know going in that this year's pick was very likely to be a top 5, would you have thought that was equal value?

Whoa!

Now hold on a second here, I "NEVER" preach, and I most certainly "HAVE NEVER" preached on fair value. I have always asked in my attempted proposal posts "is this or is there fair value here".

 

As for your opinion, more than happy to hear it, but I'll go with a GM such as Burkes experience specifically because he has achieved some success in the past. I admirer a guy like Burke, he's not afraid to make moves to attempt to build a winner, even if those moves appear to be steep in price.

[shrader]

Whoa!

Now hold on a second here, I "NEVER" preach, and I most certainly "HAVE NEVER" preached on fair value. I have always asked in my attempted proposal posts "is this or is there fair value here".

 

As for your opinion, more than happy to hear it, but I'll go with a GM such as Burkes experience specifically because he has achieved some success in the past. I admirer a guy like Burke, he's not afraid to make moves to attempt to build a winner, even if those moves appear to be steep in price.

 

It's just the first word that came to mind. You're big on determining what is equal value for a player. That's what I was getting at. And as for Burke being established, that doesn't mean he's immune from making a single mistake. He may in fact be proven right someday, but right now, that Kessel deal stings a bit.

[static70]

It's just the first word that came to mind. You're big on determining what is equal value for a player. That's what I was getting at. And as for Burke being established, that doesn't mean he's immune from making a single mistake. He may in fact be proven right someday, but right now, that Kessel deal stings a bit.

I'm hardly big on it shrader, I am merely interested in how other fans view it and what they believe fair value to be. It makes for a good conversation and there may actually be common ground to reach as fans.

And sure the Kessel deal appears to sting at its infancy, but as I stated, Burke has built a winner before, time is what is needed in Toronto to see if he will be successful there or not, but I see no current reason to believe he won't succeed there.

[shrader]

I'm hardly big on it shrader, I am merely interested in how other fans view it and what they believe fair value to be. It makes for a good conversation and there may actually be common ground to reach as fans.

And sure the Kessel deal appears to sting at its infancy, but as I stated, Burke has built a winner before, time is what is needed in Toronto to see if he will be successful there or not, but I see no current reason to believe he won't succeed there.

 

All this Burke hype can't help but make me think of the last highly respected GM who built a winner (several winners actually) and then moved onto a team with a blank checkbook. Glen Sather could do no wrong and now he's a joke. Previous success guarantees nothing.

[static70]

All this Burke hype can't help but make me think of the last highly respected GM who built a winner (several winners actually) and then moved onto a team with a blank checkbook. Glen Sather could do no wrong and now he's a joke. Previous success guarantees nothing.

True, but then again, Sather is not Burke and using his situation as some type of analogy also, proves nothing.

[shrader]

True, but then again, Sather is not Burke and using his situation as some type of analogy also, proves nothing.

 

So then every move Burke makes should be considered gold until proven otherwise? What about his days in Vancouver building a team that constantly fell short in the end?

[bunomatic]

Burke essentially inherited a team that was already ready to win in the ducks from the G.M. previous to him. Thats his success in a nutshell. He has made good moves on draft day i.e. the pronger deal when in Hartford and the Sedin twin deal on draftday when g.m. in Vancouver. Thats more the success I think of when talking about Burke. Not so much the stanley cup win.