Briere Envy

[LabattBlue]

I know it's ancient history, but until the Sabres have a forward who delivers in crunch time, I will ask: isn't it great that the Sabres decided to pay $5.3MM per year to Pommer instead of $5MM to Briere?

The better question is why they decided to ignore Briere after the 06-07 season ended and focus 100% on Drury, only to find out Drury couldn't wait to bolt to NYC.

[deluca67]

Another huge game for Briere last night, in the biggest Flyers game in 13 years -- 1 goal, 2 pts., 2nd-most ice time among Flyer forwards. He was also right on top of the play on Hartnell's goal. He's 2nd in the NHL in playoff scoring (3 pts behind Toews) and 2nd in goals (2 behind Cammaleri).

 

I know it's ancient history, but until the Sabres have a forward who delivers in crunch time, I will ask: isn't it great that the Sabres decided to pay $5.3MM per year to Pommer instead of $5MM to Briere?

Shouldn't we at least include the entire history? Hadn't the Sabres tried to sign Briere the year before?

[nfreeman]

Shouldn't we at least include the entire history? Hadn't the Sabres tried to sign Briere the year before?

 

How did they "try to sign him?" If their attempt didn't include making a competitive offer, I don't think it's fair to say that they "tried to sign him." I don't think we know what they offered him the year before. We know what he asked for ($5MM x 5 years), which they turned down, despite the fact that it turned out to be well below his market value, and below the amount they are paying a far inferior player in Pommer (not to mention Vanek).

[nfreeman]

If I just bite this curb, would you be kind enough to step on the back of my head?

 

Oh wait... You just did! :wallbash:

 

Darcy for GM for life!!

 

Oh wait... He IS!!! :wallbash:

The better question is why they decided to ignore Briere after the 06-07 season ended and focus 100% on Drury, only to find out Drury couldn't wait to bolt to NYC.

My answer to both of these is that I have a hard time holding DR accountable for these decisions/actions -- which really are among the 3 or 4 worst moves by ANY team in the NHL since the lockout -- since it seems pretty clear that LQ and TG were pretty heavily involved. I also think that LQ and TG know this, which is why DR wasn't fired after the Sabres fell off the table immediately following Black Sunday.

[Stoner]

My answer to both of these is that I have a hard time holding DR accountable for these decisions/actions -- which really are among the 3 or 4 worst moves by ANY team in the NHL since the lockout -- since it seems pretty clear that LQ and TG were pretty heavily involved. I also think that LQ and TG know this, which is why DR wasn't fired after the Sabres fell off the table immediately following Black Sunday.

 

So... I believe you were withholding judgment on DR and LR until after the season. Have you concluded your ruminations?

[Kristian]

My answer to both of these is that I have a hard time holding DR accountable for these decisions/actions -- which really are among the 3 or 4 worst moves by ANY team in the NHL since the lockout -- since it seems pretty clear that LQ and TG were pretty heavily involved. I also think that LQ and TG know this, which is why DR wasn't fired after the Sabres fell off the table immediately following Black Sunday.

 

TG was the guy who told Max he wouldn't trade him "because he liked him".

 

I'd say a guy like TG, who doesn't know hockey very well, would opt to hold onto the more skilled, offensive-minded player of the two, which was and still is Danny Briere.

 

LQ may have had his usual moronic influence on TG in this case, but I don't buy for a second that Regier - and Ruff too - didn't back the decisison to go for Drury over Danny 110%, given the "intangibles".

 

The reason Regier still has a job? It's the Buffalo Sabres we're talking about. The organisation where Tim Connolly not only gets re-signed when his contract is up, but also gets a big ol' raise :wallbash:

[nfreeman]

So... I believe you were withholding judgment on DR and LR until after the season. Have you concluded your ruminations?

 

I have, and here is where I am: I think that the team's performance was just barely good enough to justify bringing them back. If they had won the first round, then bringing them back would've been a no-brainer, and if they had missed the playoffs or gotten swept in the first round, then firing them would've been a no-brainer. But losing in 6, in a pretty close and competitive series, is enough for me -- as an admitted believer in both of them -- to be OK with bringing them back.

 

Now, to be clear, I would not have disagreed with firing them either. I would've been disappointed, because I think highly of both of them, but I think firing them would not have been unreasonable.

 

I also want to see a legit, no-BS top-3 forward who plays with heart from outside the organization brought in this summer, and I don't want to hear any excuses. I am not as determined as most are to unload some or all of TC, Pommer, Roy and Stafford, because I think in their proper roles they are OK (i.e. each is a decent enough supporting cast member, but none is close to being the Main Man), but they can't just come back in the fall with the same forwards plus Ennis and pretend everything is going to be OK. And I think that trading one of TC, Pommer or Roy might serve as a wake-up call to the others, so I wouldn't be opposed to doing so.

 

I'm not as hung up on changes to the D as some are -- I'm fine with letting Tallinder and Lydman go and (hopefully) having Weber up with the Sabres, as long as the Tallinder/Lydman cash is used to bring in a good forward. I wouldn't mind getting a guy like Kaberle, but he's not the guy the Sabres are dying for. They need a guy like Richards or Pronger or Toews or Smyth or Kesler or Brenden Morrow.

 

Bottom line is that I'm not in the "blow it up" crowd. I think with a couple of good additions, this team could be a contender.

[LabattBlue]

My answer to both of these is that I have a hard time holding DR accountable for these decisions/actions -- which really are among the 3 or 4 worst moves by ANY team in the NHL since the lockout -- since it seems pretty clear that LQ and TG were pretty heavily involved. I also think that LQ and TG know this, which is why DR wasn't fired after the Sabres fell off the table immediately following Black Sunday.

Which is why I said "they" as in OSP/LQ/DR.

[nfreeman]

Which is why I said "they" as in OSP/LQ/DR.

Sorry -- my mistake. (Actually, theirs.)

[deluca67]

My answer to both of these is that I have a hard time holding DR accountable for these decisions/actions -- which really are among the 3 or 4 worst moves by ANY team in the NHL since the lockout -- since it seems pretty clear that LQ and TG were pretty heavily involved. I also think that LQ and TG know this, which is why DR wasn't fired after the Sabres fell off the table immediately following Black Sunday.

I believe it was around 4 million a year. Consider the Sabres had rescued his career he should have signed the contract.

[tom webster]

I believe it was around 4 million a year. Consider the Sabres had rescued his career he should have signed the contract.

 

 

Considering where contracts went, Sabres should have paid the $5 million!

[deluca67]

Considering where contracts went, Sabres should have paid the $5 million!

Considering the Sabres traded for Briere after he basically played himself out of the league he should have signed the contract. How about a little loyalty for a franchise that gave you a chance?

[nfreeman]

I believe it was around 4 million a year. Consider the Sabres had rescued his career he should have signed the contract.

 

So, if they offered him $12MM or so in total, he should've accepted it, instead of the $25MM he asked for and the $50MM he was worth on the open market? Really? Has any professional athlete ever done anything like this?

 

Why can't you just admit the Sabres royally screwed the pooch with Briere, and that you were completely wrong about Roy being better than him, and just move on?

[tom webster]

Considering the Sabres traded for Briere after he basically played himself out of the league he should have signed the contract. How about a little loyalty for a franchise that gave you a chance?

 

 

And Briere played his ###### off for them and was a big part of the excitement that returned to the franchise. How about a little loyalty from the franchise?

[deluca67]

So, if they offered him $12MM or so in total, he should've accepted it, instead of the $25MM he asked for and the $50MM he was worth on the open market? Really? Has any professional athlete ever done anything like this?

 

Why can't you just admit the Sabres royally screwed the pooch with Briere, and that you were completely wrong about Roy being better than him, and just move on?

Seriously, are you and TW dating? It's predictable at this point.

 

You asked a question, "Has any professional athlete ever done anything like this?". The answer is yes. Miro Satan was grossly underpaid while carrying this team on his back offensively.

 

Roy? I am down on Roy because his maturity isn't where I would hope. He is a lot younger than Briere and has time to get it together. Briere got his act together in Buffalo after six seasons. Roy just finished his sixth season and is well ahead of Briere's offensive pace.

[deluca67]

And Briere played his ###### off for them and was a big part of the excitement that returned to the franchise. How about a little loyalty from the franchise?

Not in the defensive end.

[tom webster]

Not in the defensive end.

 

 

There's the DeLuca I remember. When your point is refuted, you change the argument.

[nfreeman]

Seriously, are you and TW dating? It's predictable at this point.

 

You asked a question, "Has any professional athlete ever done anything like this?". The answer is yes. Miro Satan was grossly underpaid while carrying this team on his back offensively.

 

Roy? I am down on Roy because his maturity isn't where I would hope. He is a lot younger than Briere and has time to get it together. Briere got his act together in Buffalo after six seasons. Roy just finished his sixth season and is well ahead of Briere's offensive pace.

 

What a clever post. You have nowhere to go on your indefensible position on Briere, so you throw out a gay joke.

 

Miro may have been grossly underpaid (I don't remember it that way, but it doesn't matter), but he didn't turn down big dollars in FA to stay with the Sabres for 1/4 of his FA value. NFW. If he was underpaid, it was only because he outperformed a contract, which happens all the time. That is completely different from the Briere situation. (Frankly, I am bewildered as to why you continue to defend Miro, who IMHO was one of the biggest floaters the Sabres have ever had, didn't play anything like the physical style you like and was one of the few Sabres I didn't like -- although I met him in person once and he was a pretty nice guy.)

 

As for Roy and the 6 seasons, Briere was a productive and clutch player for Buffalo in his 5th and 6th seasons, then left and continued to be a crunch-time producer. Roy did zero in crunch time in his 5th and 6th seasons.

 

Also, Roy is not "ahead of Briere's offensive pace." Not even close. Briere put up 58 points in 48 games in his 5th season and 95 points in 81 games in his 6th. Roy scored 70 in 82 in his 5th and 69 in 80 in his 6th. (If you like, you can add the 0 goals and 2 points Roysie added in 6 playoff games this year).

 

Give up the ghost.

[SwampD]

What a clever post. You have nowhere to go on your indefensible position on Briere, so you throw out a gay joke.

 

Miro may have been grossly underpaid (I don't remember it that way, but it doesn't matter), but he didn't turn down big dollars in FA to stay with the Sabres for 1/4 of his FA value. NFW. If he was underpaid, it was only because he outperformed a contract, which happens all the time. That is completely different from the Briere situation. (Frankly, I am bewildered as to why you continue to defend Miro, who IMHO was one of the biggest floaters the Sabres have ever had, didn't play anything like the physical style you like and was one of the few Sabres I didn't like -- although I met him in person once and he was a pretty nice guy.)

 

As for Roy and the 6 seasons, Briere was a productive and clutch player for Buffalo in his 5th and 6th seasons, then left and continued to be a crunch-time producer. Roy did zero in crunch time in his 5th and 6th seasons.

Also, Roy is not "ahead of Briere's offensive pace." Not even close. Briere put up 58 points in 48 games in his 5th season and 95 points in 81 games in his 6th. Roy scored 70 in 82 in his 5th and 69 in 80 in his 6th. (If you like, you can add the 0 goals and 2 points Roysie added in 6 playoff games this year).

 

Give up the ghost.

No. Total up Briere's first 6 seasons and compare them to Roy's first six. Roy is way ahead. In fact it's not even close, as you said.

[nfreeman]

No. Total up Briere's first 6 seasons and compare them to Roy's first six. Roy is way ahead. In fact it's not even close, as you said.

Which calculation is a better indicator of how good a player is after his 6th year in the NHL?

[SwampD]

Which calculation is a better indicator of how good a player is after his 6th year in the NHL?

The seventh year.

 

I'm pretty sure that Carp would tell you a six year average paints a better picture of who a player is than taking the two best years of a players career. And if you want to get technical, those were actually his 7th and 8th seasons.

[tom webster]

The seventh year.

 

I'm pretty sure that Carp would tell you a six year average paints a better picture of who a player is than taking the two best years of a players career. And if you want to get technical, those were actually his 7th and 8th seasons.

 

 

So having the benefit of hindsight and all that we have seen, you would rather have Roy instead of Briere?

[SwampD]

So having the benefit of hindsight and all that we have seen, you would rather have Roy instead of Briere?

Right now, no. But this is the exact point in Roy's career where someone else gave up on Briere, and Roy's got better numbers to this point.

[tom webster]

Right now, no. But this is the exact point in Roy's career where someone else gave up on Briere, and Roy's got better numbers to this point.

 

 

I wouldn't agree with "the exact point" part, but your point is taken. For what its worth, I hate Roy but I wouldn't mind seeing how he would react next year if he was the 4th or 5th forward as opposed to the 2nd or 3rd.

[Kristian]

I wouldn't agree with "the exact point" part, but your point is taken. For what its worth, I hate Roy but I wouldn't mind seeing how he would react next year if he was the 4th or 5th forward as opposed to the 2nd or 3rd.

 

I think he'd be good in that role, unfortunately Regier thinks he's a no. 1 center.