Trade Proposals - Pony up yours here

[inkman]

..,anyone who knows hockey and cares about it enough to come on a massage board...

Should clean their screen after.

[static70]

Well apuszczalowski, as I implied, its my opinion based on what I've seen watching 40 years of hockey. Is it more or less than any others? No, but I see what I see in Miller, a great commodity that can be harnessed thru a trade in an effort to bring Lord Stanleys Cup to Buffalo.

Is it necessarily the only move I would consider? Not at all, thats why I made the thread.

 

Here is another Trade I would consider fair value,

 

To BUF

Stephen Weiss

3rd rd pick

 

To FLA

Andrej Sekera

Tim Connolly

5th rd pick

 

Is this fair value? Maybe, depends on how highly FLA considers Weiss.

 

To BUF

Jeff Carter

Ryan Parent

 

To PHI

Tim Connolly

Drew Stafford

Chris Butler/Andrej Sekera

2nd and 4th rd picks

 

For Carter and Parent the value looks about right. Is it an overpayment? If so not by much.

Carter is pretty much self explanatory, but Parent is a young D man that shoots lefty, looking for that partner for Myers is all.

[gregkash]

 

To gregkash,

As far as goalies go, I look at careers, both past and present as well as the potential future of that goalie.

Better Goalies than Miller in my opinion,

Rask (who would have had similiar numbers to Miller with the same amount of games if sound reasoning is used)

Bryzgalov (who I consider Millers equal, but he does not go down nearly as often as Miller, slight advantage)

Luongo (who has a better playoff performance than Miller)

Vokoun (Who plays on an even less adequate defensive front than Miller and still puts up very good numbers)

Kiprusoff (Once again, his past playoff performances and seasons are on par with Miller, stays up more to cover the net)

Halak (showing dominance, focus and leadership well beyond Miller ever has)

Howard (young, aggressive style that shows great agility and promise, well ahead of Miller on the development curve)

 

 

So you have Miller as the 8th best goalie in the league, and consider 3 rookies to be better than him.

 

k.

[TheChimp]

To Dallas:

Derek Roy (4.0)

Tim Connolly (4.5)

 

 

To Buffalo:

Brad Richards (7.8)

[pat989]

I'll kick it off with some outlandish ones.

 

To Buf

Eric Stall

2nd rd pick

 

To Car

Ryan Miller

3rd and 5th rd picks

 

To Buf

Nathan Horton

 

To Fla

Tim Connolly

Nathan Gerbe

 

Theres your Center and RWer for Vanek or Ennis, take your pick at LW.

Is there value here? If not, whats your thoughts on possible targets?

 

Can I just make an observation...

 

I'm not hating on you for this idea, please understand... I get it we're just shooting the poop.

 

Why is it that there's a trade rumor that was posted to this board that even says in it it's a wild idea and will be one of many wild ones that will never happen... as well as one person on WGR said to consider trading Miller... and all of a sudden I see a decent amount of people getting on board with this?

 

Trading Miller would be the dumbest trade we EVER make. LOL EVER (I may eat those words someday). Look I get the idea that having a goalie while being flawed in other areas doesn't win you a cup (see 1999 Sabres), but we have arguably the best goalie in the world at what? around $6.5 million? That's a bargain these days for someone of his caliber... and he's young. Who do we replace him with? Are we suddenly going to be the Russian Red Army out there because we get Nathan Horton and Eric Stall? I sincerely doubt that. Unless you're literally getting a Malkin or Crosby or Ovechkin or Thorton etc... why would give up a superstar for quality players? Especially at the most important position on the ice?

 

We don't have a goalie beyond Miller yet. Enroth looks like Darren Pang out there (though he probably is a lot better)... he's got game and I'd love to see him make it, but he is NOT Ryan Miller... not even in the same conversation. Even if we got someone like Jimmy Howard to replace Miller in a trade with Detroit, it's still not the same.

 

The Sabres need to trade away the BS "core" for guys who get it... but they also need to sacrifice some of their long term future and roll the dice. They have a lot of nice talent coming up... they need to use that in trades, not Miller. He's just too important. Get the right people behind him... it probably won't happen next year guys, but here's hoping.

[tom webster]

Well apuszczalowski, as I implied, its my opinion based on what I've seen watching 40 years of hockey. Is it more or less than any others? No, but I see what I see in Miller, a great commodity that can be harnessed thru a trade in an effort to bring Lord Stanleys Cup to Buffalo.

Is it necessarily the only move I would consider? Not at all, thats why I made the thread.

 

Here is another Trade I would consider fair value,

 

To BUF

Stephen Weiss

3rd rd pick

 

To FLA

Andrej Sekera

Tim Connolly

5th rd pick

 

Is this fair value? Maybe, depends on how highly FLA considers Weiss.

 

To BUF

Jeff Carter

Ryan Parent

 

To PHI

Tim Connolly

Drew Stafford

Chris Butler/Andrej Sekera

2nd and 4th rd picks

 

For Carter and Parent the value looks about right. Is it an overpayment? If so not by much.

Carter is pretty much self explanatory, but Parent is a young D man that shoots lefty, looking for that partner for Myers is all.

 

 

Florida is loaded with defenseman, would have no use for Sekera and would never essentially trade Weiss for Connolly. The Philly trade is laughable. Holmgren might ask for a drug evaluation if Reiger ever offered that package.

[static70]

To Dallas:

Derek Roy (4.0)

Tim Connolly (4.5)

 

 

To Buffalo:

Brad Richards (7.8)

I like Brad Richards, Alot.

I often wondered this season if Dallas would consider a trade given their rebuild mode.

I like this trade as well. Their appears to be more than value in this one.

Maybe scoop up a 3rd rd pick with it as well?

[static70]

Can I just make an observation...

 

I'm not hating on you for this idea, please understand... I get it we're just shooting the poop.

 

Why is it that there's a trade rumor that was posted to this board that even says in it it's a wild idea and will be one of many wild ones that will never happen... as well as one person on WGR said to consider trading Miller... and all of a sudden I see a decent amount of people getting on board with this?

 

Trading Miller would be the dumbest trade we EVER make. LOL EVER (I may eat those words someday). Look I get the idea that having a goalie while being flawed in other areas doesn't win you a cup (see 1999 Sabres), but we have arguably the best goalie in the world at what? around $6.5 million? That's a bargain these days for someone of his caliber... and he's young. Who do we replace him with? Are we suddenly going to be the Russian Red Army out there because we get Nathan Horton and Eric Stall? I sincerely doubt that. Unless you're literally getting a Malkin or Crosby or Ovechkin or Thorton etc... why would give up a superstar for quality players? Especially at the most important position on the ice?

 

We don't have a goalie beyond Miller yet. Enroth looks like Darren Pang out there (though he probably is a lot better)... he's got game and I'd love to see him make it, but he is NOT Ryan Miller... not even in the same conversation. Even if we got someone like Jimmy Howard to replace Miller in a trade with Detroit, it's still not the same.

 

The Sabres need to trade away the BS "core" for guys who get it... but they also need to sacrifice some of their long term future and roll the dice. They have a lot of nice talent coming up... they need to use that in trades, not Miller. He's just too important. Get the right people behind him... it probably won't happen next year guys, but here's hoping.

Its all good, and thanks for the input. I don't disagree with anything you've stated in this post. As a matter of fact, I agree with just about all of it, the only thing I can say about trading Miller and why I threw him out there was because of the potential return we could get for him.

 

As I stated, Miller would be a very important component if the organization could find away to bring in the rest of the right pieces for a Cup run. And you would be correct, the core should be the first to go, long before Miller.

But I am looking at value for the trades. Are they outlandish? Of course, Miller puts fans in the seats. When asked who the people in Buffalo love to see play, they aren't saying Drew Stafford, Tim Connolly or Craig Rivet, they recognize Millers talents and his name is the most frequent.

 

That being the case, I understand fully what you are saying and that Miller isn't going anywhere. But after 40 years, as a fan, I long for a Cup celebration here in Buffalo. Its beyond an obsession for so many fans like myself. Blowing up the front office, or the coaching staff or even the roster, something has to give.

 

Thats why when I put the thread up, I offered the line: "I'll kick it off with something outlandish".

And of course, all the fanatical Miller fans went nuts. Before we had message boards, back in the good ole year of 1980, I was advocating trading Perreault for draft picks. He was my hero of the day, that was a hard pill to swallow, but even back then, I wanted a Stanley Cup and I could care less which players carried it around the Ice or were in the parade.

[tom webster]

Its all good, and thanks for the input. I don't disagree with anything you've stated in this post. As a matter of fact, I agree with just about all of it, the only thing I can say about trading Miller and why I threw him out there was because of the potential return we could get for him.

 

As I stated, Miller would be a very important component if the organization could find away to bring in the rest of the right pieces for a Cup run. And you would be correct, the core should be the first to go, long before Miller.

But I am looking at value for the trades. Are they outlandish? Of course, Miller puts fans in the seats. When asked who the people in Buffalo love to see play, they aren't saying Drew Stafford, Tim Connolly or Craig Rivet, they recognize Millers talents and his name is the most frequent.

 

That being the case, I understand fully what you are saying and that Miller isn't going anywhere. But after 40 years, as a fan, I long for a Cup celebration here in Buffalo. Its beyond an obsession for so many fans like myself. Blowing up the front office, or the coaching staff or even the roster, something has to give.

 

Thats why when I put the thread up, I offered the line: "I'll kick it off with something outlandish".

And of course, all the fanatical Miller fans went nuts. Before we had message boards, back in the good ole year of 1980, I was advocating trading Perreault for draft picks. He was my hero of the day, that was a hard pill to swallow, but even back then, I wanted a Stanley Cup and I could care less which players carried it around the Ice or were in the parade.

 

 

I have no problem with this sentiment but to have a meaningful discussion, the trades have to be realistic and so far the only deal that would garner a return phone call is the Brad Richards deal and like I said in an earlier thread, Richards makes Briere look like a Selke award candidate.

[static70]

I have no problem with this sentiment but to have a meaningful discussion, the trades have to be realistic and so far the only deal that would garner a return phone call is the Brad Richards deal and like I said in an earlier thread, Richards makes Briere look like a Selke award candidate.

Well tom, thats why when I post the trades I do, I am asking in each post "Is there value here"?

I would love constructive criticism and altering the trades or countering with an entirely new trade/trades.

I got a kick out of your drug test comment, but in all honesty, I was looking for everyone to counter propose, such as the Richards trade.

[deluca67]

I see, so we are an upper bound on dissent. I'll buy that.

 

 

 

Not saying that any of your moves are bad, but who would you have playing center on the two scoring lines next year? You say that R.J. is a good third-line center, but unless you acquire one or two, you are picking two top centers from: R.J., Goose, Hecht, Kennedy, Ennis (hasn't played a game at center in the NHL), or someone else from Portland. As much as you may dislike Roy and Connolly, I guarantee you that choosing both from that list would be worse.

I limited the post to just trade proposals. My top two center positions would be filled by free agents. Actual top level free agents signed on day one. Not the usual clearance rack shopping the Sabres do. I would sign Marleau and even sign Pavelski to a offer sheet. Cullen, Plekanec, Belanger and Saku Koivu will also be on the radar.

 

I would be ok with a Marleau, Cullen, Umberger and Ennis as my centers. I would move Gaustad to the wing permanently. If i can trade Miller to the Wings for Franzen and Howard I would have a team ready to make a serious run.

[LabattBlue]

I'd love to see the Sabres trade for Stoll. He has size, he plays physical, he is great on faceoffs and can probably get you 50 points(I believe he is under contract for two more years, but I am afraid to go to nhlnumbers.com to verify :rolleyes: ). So he scores less than Connolly...BIG DEAL! What is the point of bringing in another one dimensional smurf(Lombardi, etc...), when we all know that Lindy will just suffocate them from an offensive standpoint.

 

Trade Stafford and a pick or prospect for Stoll

 

Trade Connolly for picks, prospects or a physical payer on the blueline.

 

Sign UFA Cullen.

 

Top two lines...Vanek, Pominville, Roy, Stoll, Ennis & Cullen

 

Rest of forwards(pick 7)...Kennedy, Gaustad, Grier, Hecht, Kaleta, Gerbe, McCormick & a gritty UFA

 

Defense...Lydman, Myers, Montador, Weber, <physical player via UFA or trade> and then pick two...Rivet, Butler, Sekera

[carpandean]

I limited the post to just trade proposals. My top two center positions would be filled by free agents. Actual top level free agents signed on day one. Not the usual clearance rack shopping the Sabres do. I would sign Marleau and even sign Pavelski to a offer sheet. Cullen, Plekanec, Belanger and Saku Koivu will also be on the radar.

 

I would be ok with a Marleau, Cullen, Umberger and Ennis as my centers.

OK. That makes more sense. While doing so for one top-line center is not bad, I would say that you generally do overpay for UFAs on July 1. For example, as good as Briere is playing right now, having 2 of Drury, Briere and Gomez for the contracts that they got in 2007 would kill most teams cap-wise. Darcy may say that he's surprised by this each year, but I'm not. Simple supply (very low) and demand (very high). I would say that picking up one (Marleau might work) wouldn't be bad, but I would be careful about picking up two or at least counting on that as the way to go. You could easily end up spending $12+ million for Marleau/Cullen.

[deluca67]

OK. That makes more sense. While doing so for one top-line center is not bad, I would say that you generally do overpay for UFAs on July 1. For example, as good as Briere is playing right now, having 2 of Drury, Briere and Gomez for the contracts that they got in 2007 would kill most teams cap-wise. Darcy may say that he's surprised by this each year, but I'm not. Simple supply (very low) and demand (very high). I would say that picking up one (Marleau might work) wouldn't be bad, but I would be careful about picking up two or at least counting on that as the way to go. You could easily end up spending $12+ million for Marleau/Cullen.

I hear what you are saying about contracts killing teams. I guess my question is which teams have they really killed? I know the thought of those contracts paralyzes the Sabres. The Rangers are still going to make moves this off-season. As will Philly, Montreal and San Jose. I am beginning to doubt that those big contracts actually have the negative effect as we all think.

[static70]

Block Buster Buffalo/Chicago trade.

Salary dump for Chicago via Campbell, Kane is center piece of deal.

Is there any value here?

 

To BUF

Patrick Kane (6.5 mil)

Patrick Sharp (4.1 mil)

Brian Campbell (7.140 mil)

2nd rd & 5th rd picks 2010

 

To CHI

Thomas Vanek (6.4 mil)

Tim Connolly (4.5 mil)

Drew Stafford (2.3 mil)

Andrej Sekera/Chris Butler (1.250/.585 mil)

1st rd, 3rd rd draft picks 2010

[darksabre]

Block Buster Buffalo/Chicago trade.

Salary dump for Chicago via Campbell, Kane is center piece of deal.

Is there any value here?

 

To BUF

Patrick Kane (6.5 mil)

Patrick Sharp (4.1 mil)

Brian Campbell (7.140 mil)

2nd rd & 5th rd picks 2010

 

To CHI

Thomas Vanek (6.4 mil)

Tim Connolly (4.5 mil)

Drew Stafford (2.3 mil)

Andrej Sekera/Chris Butler (1.250/.585 mil)

1st rd, 3rd rd draft picks 2010

 

Yeah, because that's what Chicago needs. What a riot.

[LabattBlue]

Yeah, because that's what Chicago needs. What a riot.

That's just a starting point for discussions. It just needs to be tweaked a little! :rolleyes:

[darksabre]

That's just a starting point for discussions. It just needs to be tweaked a little! :rolleyes:

 

Yup, just like Kirstie Alley only needs to lose a little weight. :sick:

[carpandean]

I hear what you are saying about contracts killing teams. I guess my question is which teams have they really killed? I know the thought of those contracts paralyzes the Sabres. The Rangers are still going to make moves this off-season. As will Philly, Montreal and San Jose. I am beginning to doubt that those big contracts actually have the negative effect as we all think.

Well, the Rangers are a good example. One could say that they were fortunate to dump Gomez's contract, though he has done well in the post-season.

 

I should also have specified that given the rest of the contracts that we would still be locked into (Miller, Vanek, Pominville, Hecht, Gaustad, Rivet) unless Regier can pull off a few more miracles, it might kill us. Just for reference, if trade away Roy/Connolly/Stafford, get back Umberger, pay $12 million combined for Marleau/Cullen and pay just under $3 million for Kennedy, Kaleta and McCormick, then:

 

Kennedy-Marleau-Vanek

Gerbe-Ennis-Pommer

Hecht-Cullen-Grier

Gaustad-Umberger-Kaleta

McCormick

 

Weber-Myers

Sekera-Montador

Rivet-Gragnani

Butler

 

Miller

Basic Backup ($1.5 million)

 

Would have a $57.6 million cap hit. I like the forwards, but that's an awfully young (or questionable, for the vets) defense. We'll probably stay closer to $55 million, unless the cap goes up a lot, to keep from being frozen in case of injuries and at the deadline. So, knock $2.5 million out. I will say that I'm a little more optimistic about maybe getting one be $ player (Marleau) after having run those numbers, though.

[TheChimp]

I like Brad Richards, Alot.

I often wondered this season if Dallas would consider a trade given their rebuild mode.

I like this trade as well. Their appears to be more than value in this one.

Maybe scoop up a 3rd rd pick with it as well?

######, I'd GIVE Dallas a 3rd to make Richards a Sabre and Roy and Connolly ex-Sabres.

[Eleven]

Block Buster Buffalo/Chicago trade.

Salary dump for Chicago via Campbell, Kane is center piece of deal.

Is there any value here?

 

To BUF

Patrick Kane (6.5 mil)

Patrick Sharp (4.1 mil)

Brian Campbell (7.140 mil)

2nd rd & 5th rd picks 2010

 

To CHI

Thomas Vanek (6.4 mil)

Tim Connolly (4.5 mil)

Drew Stafford (2.3 mil)

Andrej Sekera/Chris Butler (1.250/.585 mil)

1st rd, 3rd rd draft picks 2010

 

Sure, there's value. Plenty of value...for the Sabres. I'm not sure that Chicago would go for this, even if it rids them of Campbell's salary.

[darksabre]

Sure, there's value. Plenty of value...for the Sabres. I'm not sure that Chicago would go for this, even if it rids them of Campbell's salary.

 

I think the first thing Chicago would do is get rid of Campbell in a trade that DOESN'T involve Buffalo. Wouldn't you?

[SabresneedaCup]

to buffalo

 

shane doan, ed jovanovski

 

to phoenix

 

andrej sekera, tim connolly, 3rd round pick

[darksabre]

Yeah, let's just keep picking teams that can trade away their best players for our crap. Come on people. Use that gray mush inside your thick dome pieces. Why the heck would Phoenix ever trade us Jovanovski and Doan?

[Eleven]

I think the first thing Chicago would do is get rid of Campbell in a trade that DOESN'T involve Buffalo. Wouldn't you?

 

Why so? Not sure I get it; I think Chi takes the first buyer it can find for that bloated contract. Chicago shouldn't have anything against Buffalo (unless the Hasek trade still stings), so why not?