Miller called out by Cherry

[deluca67]

Rask made a lot of tremendous in-tight saves that didn't get a lot of attention.

 

I'll agree with most of your post except the part about Miller consistently being a top five goalie. The numbers before this season clearly don't support that claim.

Miller to me seems to be a modern day Curtis Joseph. He will look great and put up some decent numbers. Like Cujo, Miller has trouble sealing the deal.

[apuszczalowski]

You can't include yesterday's game, where Rask allowed four goals, in evaluating who the better goalie was in the Sabres-Bruins series. And I don't think that Cherry's well-documented pro-Canadian (really, sometimes it's pro-North American), anti-European bias played a role in his comments, either. Rask is Finnish, not Canadian. Any comparison between Miller and Brodeur will be valid if and when Miller starts approaching Brodeur in wins, Cups, and shutouts.

 

That said, I'd rather have Miller than either Brodeur or Rask with the Sabres right now. Brodeur's career is coming to a close, and Rask could very well turn out to be a one-season stud like so many "this is the next star" goalies of the last few years. Miller is consistently a top 5 NHL goaltender and will be for some time.

 

And THAT said, Rask outplayed Miller in a six-game series. Big deal. I can think of several periods in the series where the Sabres had great pressure, great shots, and the only reason goals weren't scored was because of Rask's play. Why are we so afraid to acknowledge that the goalie got outplayed, while so quick to say that the forwards and defensemen got outplayed? It's ok. The guy played a long season, had a deep and successful Olympic run, and didn't play as well as another guy who happened to be streaking just at the wrong time. Happens. Miller was the best Sabre throughout the series, but that doesn't mean that he was better than the other team's goaltender, and it doesn't make him immune to criticism.

I only included the GAA and SV% because I didn't have what the NHL had for just those games, and I wasn't going to try and figure ot out myself so I just gave those numbers

 

I still have yet to see anyone show any proof that Rask actually outplayed Miller besides people just saying that his team won and Millers didn't. Why shouldn't people be so quick to put the blame on the forwards and defencemen? If you watched the games, that should be enough proof to show that the majority of them were horrible and the reason why they lost.

[Eleven]

I only included the GAA and SV% because I didn't have what the NHL had for just those games, and I wasn't going to try and figure ot out myself so I just gave those numbers

 

I still have yet to see anyone show any proof that Rask actually outplayed Miller besides people just saying that his team won and Millers didn't. Why shouldn't people be so quick to put the blame on the forwards and defencemen? If you watched the games, that should be enough proof to show that the majority of them were horrible and the reason why they lost.

 

A couple of us have explained that Rask actually played incredible hockey during that series. As DeLuca PA pointed out, there were a LOT of in-tight saves. Some after the Sabres took too long dancing with the puck, some after beautiful passes, and some after the Bruins failed to clear rebounds.

 

Just because the lion's share of the blame doesn't rest with Miller (and it doesn't), doesn't mean that he was the better goalie in that series. He was not. In fact, there may have been a game or two there that Boston won because of Rask--that doesn't mean that Miller had bad games those nights; it means that Rask had really good ones.

[deluca67]

A couple of us have explained that Rask actually played incredible hockey during that series. As DeLuca pointed out, there were a LOT of in-tight saves. Some after the Sabres took too long dancing with the puck, some after beautiful passes, and some after the Bruins failed to clear rebounds.

 

Just because the lion's share of the blame doesn't rest with Miller (and it doesn't), doesn't mean that he was the better goalie in that series. He was not. In fact, there may have been a game or two there that Boston won because of Rask--that doesn't mean that Miller had bad games those nights; it means that Rask had really good ones.

The was PA that pointed that out. Credit deserved where credit is due.

[darksabre]

Brodeur has won championships, Miller has not. This is the prime of Miller's career. Brodeur is in the twilight. Brodeur has proved himself many times over of being one of the top goalies of all time. Plus Brodeur performed without the help of an offensive juggernaut in NJ.

 

Miller had a great series as a USA goalie and he is a sentimental favorite because he performed for the USA. But he hasn't proven anything to me and if anything, I think is over-hyped. He was good vs. the Bruins, sometimes great. But he was also not-so-great in critical times and that's what you need to be an elite goalie.

 

I think you trade Miller to a San Jose or a Western Conference team now while his trade value is the highest.

 

Are you f*cking mental?

[Kristian]

As others have pointed out, that between the legs goal in game 4 is just not a goal an elite goaltender allows in the playoffs.

 

I like Miller a lot, I think he was the best player in that series, but he still has a ways to go.

[Eleven]

The was PA that pointed that out. Credit deserved where credit is due.

 

Amended. Thanks.

[Stoner]

Are you f*cking mental?

 

Why is it mental to trade an asset when it's never going to bring a higher return?

 

Ryan Miller and Lindy Ruff have this in common: fans overrate them, think they're going to deliver a Cup some day and fear Sabres hockey will fall off the edge of the Earth if they leave.

 

Good coaches get fired. Good players get traded.

[SwampD]

Why is it mental to trade an asset when it's never going to bring a higher return?

 

Ryan Miller and Lindy Ruff have this in common: fans overrate them, think they're going to deliver a Cup some day and fear Sabres hockey will fall off the edge of the Earth if they leave.

 

Good coaches get fired. Good players get traded.

Yes.

[darksabre]

Why is it mental to trade an asset when it's never going to bring a higher return?

 

Ryan Miller and Lindy Ruff have this in common: fans overrate them, think they're going to deliver a Cup some day and fear Sabres hockey will fall off the edge of the Earth if they leave.

 

Good coaches get fired. Good players get traded.

 

Yeah, that's great. Why don't we do that then. At least you'd have something to complain about as the Sabres fumble around like the Flyers without a goaltender until they finally get it right. The simple thought of trading Miller away is madness and a desire to see this team fail for years to come.

 

You're mental too. But we already knew that.

[Stoner]

Yeah, that's great. Why don't we do that then. At least you'd have something to complain about as the Sabres fumble around like the Flyers without a goaltender until they finally get it right. The simple thought of trading Miller away is madness and a desire to see this team fail for years to come.

 

You're mental too. But we already knew that.

 

But at least I wasn't mental enough to want the Sabres to lose. I retained that shred of sanity.

[Marvelo]

Yeah, that's great. Why don't we do that then. At least you'd have something to complain about as the Sabres fumble around like the Flyers without a goaltender until they finally get it right. The simple thought of trading Miller away is madness and a desire to see this team fail for years to come.

 

You're mental too. But we already knew that.

 

If you don't agree with someone, fine. But don't call that person mental. You might be more mental than them. Calling someone mental is very weak.

 

And reading your posts, it seems like everybody is mental, except you. Have you ever considered... :nana:

[thesportsbuff]

I still have yet to see anyone show any proof that Rask actually outplayed Miller besides people just saying that his team won and Millers didn't.

 

I don't know what more proof you need than watching the series. I've already posted my stance and my comments coincidentally went ignored. No rebuttal?

 

Why shouldn't people be so quick to put the blame on the forwards and defencemen? If you watched the games, that should be enough proof to show that the majority of them were horrible and the reason why they lost.

 

Once again, I've personally stated (and read others stating) that nobody (as in no person, not the poster) is BLAMING our early exit on Miller. I just want you to get off your high horse and acknowledge that Ryan Miller DID NOT play as well as Rask and DID NOT get the job done.

[carpandean]

I guess that the hard part about saying that Rask outplayed Miller is this: yes, Miller let in some softer goals, but he also made more big saves. It's not exactly fair to hold that against Rask since he just wasn't challenged as much (that one save on Grier aside), but you can't ignore what Miller had to do.

[Stoner]

I guess that the hard part about saying that Rask outplayed Miller is this: yes, Miller let in some softer goals, but he also made more big saves. It's not exactly fair to hold that against Rask since he just wasn't challenged as much (that one save on Grier aside), but you can't ignore what Miller had to do.

 

I bet if we were Bruins fans, we'd take offense to the idea that Rask wasn't challenged as much.

 

Not that this proves anything, but if you look at the nhl.com game highlights for the series, someone selected 37 big saves by Miller and 30 by Rask. Miller held a huge advantage in Game 4, 14 saves to 4. I think that's where the impression comes from that Miller had to stand on his head in the series. Like the advantage some people perceived the Bruins to have in the hits department, the numbers don't really back it up. But those plays by Boychuk and Recchi sure made it seem that way.

[carpandean]

Miller held a huge advantage in Game 4, 14 saves to 4.

That was also a game where people like to point out his "weak goal" as evidence that he got outplayed. Does one soft goal make his performance worse despite having to make 10 more great saves?

 

There were definitely games where they were both challenged, but those games where it was heavy one way or the other seemed to lean on Miller more. Rask didn't come up huge in game 5 when he was really challenged and, really, until the Sabres skaters went into the fetal position after Vanek went down, one could argue Rask had been outplayed for 80+ minutes.

 

Rask was as good as he needed to be to win that series, but Miller would have had to be much better to win it. He wasn't always, but he shouldn't have needed to be. Anyway, if I were a Bruins fan, I'd be very happy to have Rask, and I'm still very happy to have Miller.

[Eleven]

I guess that the hard part about saying that Rask outplayed Miller is this: yes, Miller let in some softer goals, but he also made more big saves. It's not exactly fair to hold that against Rask since he just wasn't challenged as much (that one save on Grier aside), but you can't ignore what Miller had to do.

 

I'm really not so sure about that. Rask made some big freaking saves in that series. He really did. Think back to the times when you saw the Sabs swarming--and definitely, there were those times--only to come up empty. That was more Rask than the Boston D. Frankly, I don't think the Boston D is any better than the Buffalo D. IMO, Rask was a factor in that series. Not the biggest factor, but a factor.

[bunomatic]

It comes down to this.Rask made the saves he had to make,Miller did'nt.

[Sabre Dance]

I'm sort of glad someone brought this up. I do not blame Miller, but I think its funny that a team that was so hurting at forward that they had to trade for Dan Paille and sign Miro Satan scored a fair number of goals against us. And they had 5 today against a Philly team that was shutting down people of late! Our PP was a joke, but who would have thought Boston would have scored so may goals. I figured Miller would have had at least one shut out, and in game five he should have.

 

 

Its all about getting hot at the right time

 

Well, considering that Buffalo's defense refuses to clear the net in front of Miller (and Ryan has had to defend himself on a number of occasions against opposing forwards), I thought he played as well as could be expected. Rask saw just about every shot that was taken on him and seldom had a Buffalo forward on top of him. Yeah, when you can move around the crease with little/no interference it makes it much easier to shine. I thought Cherry was stupid for singling out Miller when the entire team sucked canal water. He should have called out the entire team and asked what championships THEY have won. Answer: ZERO

 

Look for Miller to ask to be traded (or finish up his contract here) and move to Detroit so he can play on a team that will actually watch out for him and give him a chance at a Stanely Cup (Oh, and the fact that the Red Wings are in Ryan's home state AND his brother plays for the team....well, there you go).

[Kristian]

Well, considering that Buffalo's defense refuses to clear the net in front of Miller (and Ryan has had to defend himself on a number of occasions against opposing forwards), I thought he played as well as could be expected. Rask saw just about every shot that was taken on him and seldom had a Buffalo forward on top of him. Yeah, when you can move around the crease with little/no interference it makes it much easier to shine. I thought Cherry was stupid for singling out Miller when the entire team sucked canal water. He should have called out the entire team and asked what championships THEY have won. Answer: ZERO

 

Look for Miller to ask to be traded (or finish up his contract here) and move to Detroit so he can play on a team that will actually watch out for him and give him a chance at a Stanely Cup (Oh, and the fact that the Red Wings are in Ryan's home state AND his brother plays for the team....well, there you go).

 

Are you implying Ruff's defensive masterpiece of a "system" doesn't work?

 

Perish the thought...!!

 

/sarcasm off

 

Seriously, like I've already said numerous times - A defensive system that requires your goalie to make that many saves on quality chances isn't a good one.

 

Be it the players or the coaches fault, I couldn't care less - The system sucks!

[Claude_Verret]

I didn't read the whole thread so my apologies if others have already brought this up. Miller played well enough for the Sabres to win, but Rask was the better goalie. However, if the Sabres manage 10-15% PP efficiency and/or kill penalties with close to the same efficiency as they managed in the regular season then they win that series. Their failings in those two crucial areas speak far more to "core" players not stepping up than to Miller not being good enough.

[zow2]

Miller is a very good goalie. He's not, however, going to carry a team on his back to the Cup....at least not this Sabres team. Look at Halak. He is flat out stealing some games for Montreal. We needed that out of Miller and he could not sustain that in a 6-7 game series. I love Miller but he has still not proven to me that he can be that Hasak/Broudeur type goalie in his prime...

[FogBat]

Miller did not have a great series. That said, Cherry might just be a little partial to the Bruins sometimes, you know?

You wouldn't be alluding to when he coached them, would you? Having said that, I find it ironic that with his veiled bias for them, he never coached them to a Stanley Cup championship.

 

Although this OT-entry from Cherry's Wikipedia entry is quite hilarious. "In 1989, he referred to Finnish-born Winnipeg Jets Assistant Coach Alpo Suhonen as "some kind of dog food".

[rickshaw]

Hmmm. Very interesting observation. It's been said that Don Cherry is a very patriotic Canadian, and that proves it even further.

 

I'm just glad I didn't get the CBC during the Winter Olympics.

 

It wouldn't have mattered, CTV had the Olympics, CBC had none of it so Cherry didn't get a sniff.

[That Aud Smell]

i haven't read through the posts, but i will say this: (i) i find cherry entertaining, (ii) i am confident that he would be a fockin' riot to have a few pops with, (iii) at bottom, i think he's a good guy, (iv) it is his job at hnic to be a loudmouthed canadian (as in british canadian) windbag who can stir up some controversy, (v) he excels at his job, (vi) this picture taken by a vancouver fan on may 1 is awesome.