Are the Sabres a better team....................................

[static70]

40 goals is not irrelevant to the conversation.

Vanek is the type of player who put himself in prime scoring areas of the ice.

I do not see how anyone can say that there is no way he could benefit from added speed and skill surrounding him.

 

History shows that he produces more in an attack offense.

 

As far as the draft goes I'd be looking for a sniper like Skinner.

Well, yes, the 40 goal seasons are irrelevant to the conversation, the OP didn't focus in on the production of a player, but the speed at which the current roster played at this evening. He did ask if they appeared better without Vanek, but I don't think that question can be answered for a couple of reasons, first of which its only 1 game.

 

But the speed was there more so this game than it has been in the last few seasons.

[Xray]

That and his/her inability to post something and NOT insult someone on this board.

 

For someone who hates the word "troll", throwing a random "Poll Smoker" post in someone's face is pretty funny.

Well I'm not really sure TomWebster needs a ******** to defend him.

If he decides to throw an insult that's his battle, he shouldn't need it to come to his rescue.

[Xray]

Well, yes, the 40 goal seasons are irrelevant to the conversation, the OP didn't focus in on the production of a player, but the speed at which the current roster played at this evening. He did ask if they appeared better without Vanek, but I don't think that question can be answered for a couple of reasons, first of which its only 1 game.

 

But the speed was there more so this game than it has been in the last few seasons.

The point that I'm raising is that this team needs to add skill and speed not swap out skill players.

 

We went from the ECF to where the team is now by losing skill players, it only makes sense that the best way to get back to that level is to find like replacements.

 

I know the general Hockey Speak is this idea that the game is totally different 2 years later, but it doesn't look that way to me.

And tonight's game is a good example.

[SwampD]

40 goals is not irrelevant to the conversation.

Vanek is the type of player who put himself in prime scoring areas of the ice.

I do not see how anyone can say that there is no way he could benefit from added speed and skill surrounding him.

 

History shows that he produces more in an attack offense.

 

As far as the draft goes I'd be looking for a sniper like Skinner.

+1, THIS, :thumbsup:

 

I know this is the dreaded Hockey Speak but so what.

 

 

If you are not trying to score then you are waiting to get scored on.

[Xray]

I'm sorry, this is funny. You really could add to this board if you weren't so insecure.

I didn't intend it to be funny.

The best way to handle sniveling punks is to confront them directly.

 

If he cannot conduct himself without his juvenile garbage, then that is the way he need to be slapped around.

 

If you notice anything else I'm posting is hockey related.

[static70]

The point that I'm raising is that this team needs to add skill and speed not swap out skill players.

 

We went from the ECF to where the team is now by losing skill players, it only makes sense that the best way to get back to that level is to find like replacements.

 

I know the general Hockey Speak is this idea that the game is totally different 2 years later, but it doesn't look that way to me.

And tonight's game is a good example.

And I agree with this Xray.

 

When you step back, and look at where the team is in accordance with other teams that are contending for the Cup due to talent, the assessment made would be to add those skilled components, and by no means is the draft the only way. (Although, to hear Regier speak, you would think that is the case)

 

I actually like Roy and Vanek together and have felt they are missing a gifted RWer. Is that possibly Ennis? I don't know, but he shows some promise. The reason I tend to look at this way is really simplistic to me, anyways, I want a Cup in Buffalo.

 

If that means a trade to solidify that talent you and I speak of now on the skill side, then so be it. I'm not closed to the idea of moving Vanek or Stafford. I don't like the idea of moving Roy or Connolly for the simple reason that we don't have a Center to step in and replace them.

 

But with this draft, Seguin is there, if Vanek were moved, I would take Hall. Its merely a matter of choice.

FA isn't offering much this off season, RFA's ya, but Darcy isn't going to bite another team in the ###, its just not his style.

[SwampD]

I didn't intend it to be funny.

The best way to handle sniveling punks is to confront them directly.

 

If he cannot conduct himself without his juvenile garbage, then that is the way he need to be slapped around.

 

If you notice anything else I'm posting is hockey related.

Why are you so angry?

 

I've heard TW referred to as a lot of things. Sniveling punk isn't one of them.

[tom webster]

Well I'm not really sure TomWebster needs a ******** to defend him.

If he decides to throw an insult that's his battle, he shouldn't need it to come to his rescue.

 

I don't need anyone to defend me and I'm not sure he was. I admit I lost my cool but I'm here for dialogue and its obvious that whenever someone questions your rants, you go off on some incoherent rant.

As for todays game you guys are here talking about the increased speed of the game and the only line that had anymore speed on it was the Gaustad line because Gerbe did bring something. The Roy line switched out Vanek with Stafford, not exactly a speed burner.

The Vanek, Roy and Kennedy line has been playing great lately except for that Ottawa game when they did their usual disappearing act.

This team will go far if that line can continue playing that way but to me it falls mostly on Roy and how disciplined he can play.

[shrader]

I'm confused as to how we're getting all of this out of tonight's game. This one really didn't seem like anything to write home about. Nothing really stood out to me in person tonight. Now, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but I didn't see anything that screamed out to me that this is suddenly a better team minus Vanek.

[billsrcursed]

Well I'm not really sure TomWebster needs a ******** to defend him.

If he decides to throw an insult that's his battle, he shouldn't need it to come to his rescue.

The best part about your post is I get to guess what dirty name you called me. :rolleyes:

 

TW isn't the only person you've personally insulted, nor am I.

 

It's a shame, too, because you seem to know a good deal about the Sabres and Hockey in general. Of course, having knowledge of a sport doesn't entitle you to belittle people. Thankfully for you, it's just a message board and not real life.

[VansTheMans]

It was an awesome game tonight to be sure. The Portland boys worked their ###### off out there. Gerbe and Ennis were FLYING.

 

It was good to see the team play with so much heart. :worthy:

 

The Portland boys are hungry, and I say let them eat.

[henysgol]

Tonight they were...

[wjag]

I'm confused as to how we're getting all of this out of tonight's game. This one really didn't seem like anything to write home about. Nothing really stood out to me in person tonight. Now, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but I didn't see anything that screamed out to me that this is suddenly a better team minus Vanek.

Since I started the post, I answer this. Seriously? You didn't notice the pace of the game was faster? I made the comment early in the thread that Gerbe with Grier and Gaustad would negate his speed. Well that was incorrect. They were flying. But the real point I was trying to make was how they attacked the net was different. Their entries were different. They we flying into the zone. How many games have we watched Vanek posted on the blue line. Puck is skated to the line and dumped to him. He chips it in (losing posession). The other forward and center chase it down while he settles in, in front of the net. Puck gets retrieved (hopefully) and sent back to the point where the tip drill begins. Tonight there seemed to be far less if not outright none of this. They entered the zone and the forward/center attacked the net. It was a fun game to watch. All four lines were attacking in this fashion.

 

Now I agree it was a sample size of just one game, but I'm willing to bet we're going to see a lot more of this with the team as constituted. Hence, are they a better team without TV that forces a tip drill type offense to take advantage of his type of goal scoring? I actually believe TV has more speed than given credit for, it's just how he has been employed ever since the Captains left that has changed. He used to be a sniper. He can again.

[deluca67]

He was playing on the third line with the anti-christ who by the way has now scored in 3 straight games.

Every time Gaustad scores a goal I cringe. Each goal is just another step further from the player he once was. He had so much potential to be the big physical force this team has needed for what seems like forever. Now he seems to be content being the next Bent Peterson.

[BuffalOhio]

I'm confused as to how we're getting all of this out of tonight's game. This one really didn't seem like anything to write home about. Nothing really stood out to me in person tonight. Now, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but I didn't see anything that screamed out to me that this is suddenly a better team minus Vanek.

 

I thought that in last night's game they looked better than they had in months. More speed was evident, and more importantly, more battle and effort was evident. Was that because of all the new guys in the lineup? Not sure, but Ennis and Gerbe really showed a lot of grit and determination in their play.

 

Ennis needs to stay. Not sold on Gerbe yet.

[Marvelo]

I like the old Bruins formula of the Hodge-Cashman-Espo line. You have a digger, a playmaker and a scorer and you let them do their jobs and don't worry about asking them stuff they're not good at doing.

 

That said I don't think TV has the heart to play for the Buffalo Sabres.

[LabattBlue]

I know giving up Vanek and Stafford is big, believe it or not, but to have a chance to grab Hall or Seguin would you go after it as a chance to build a true scoring line 1?

I'd jump for joy if this trade happened, but I don't think Edmonton would do this....assuming they end up with one of the top 2 picks.

[shrader]

Since I started the post, I answer this. Seriously? You didn't notice the pace of the game was faster? I made the comment early in the thread that Gerbe with Grier and Gaustad would negate his speed. Well that was incorrect. They were flying. But the real point I was trying to make was how they attacked the net was different. Their entries were different. They we flying into the zone. How many games have we watched Vanek posted on the blue line. Puck is skated to the line and dumped to him. He chips it in (losing posession). The other forward and center chase it down while he settles in, in front of the net. Puck gets retrieved (hopefully) and sent back to the point where the tip drill begins. Tonight there seemed to be far less if not outright none of this. They entered the zone and the forward/center attacked the net. It was a fun game to watch. All four lines were attacking in this fashion.

 

Now I agree it was a sample size of just one game, but I'm willing to bet we're going to see a lot more of this with the team as constituted. Hence, are they a better team without TV that forces a tip drill type offense to take advantage of his type of goal scoring? I actually believe TV has more speed than given credit for, it's just how he has been employed ever since the Captains left that has changed. He used to be a sniper. He can again.

 

What I saw was a team playing an average game. They still fell into their same old problem of not being able to score, but were luckily bailed out by one of the more crappy goaltending performances in recent memory. Now I don't intend that to sound as negative as it might read (ok, maybe I'm not negative enough about how Tim Thomas played), but I just didn't see this world beaters attitude I'm reading on here today.

 

As someone else already mentioned, Vanek wasn't the only one missing for this game. The team has been winning a lot lately and guess who was there for all of that. I just don't see him as the big drain that is being suggested. Another thing we need to stop and consider is that if there indeed was this tweak in the game plan, it's going to have a lot to do with the people added to the roster. Certain players are going to look faster because they are in fact faster.

[MattPie]

Tampa game: even Harry and/or Rick pointed out that TB has a fairly slow defence. Perhaps they looked faster due to skating with pylons?

 

Boston game: I will admit at times they looked quick out there in Boston, but other times not as much. I don't know off-hand if Boston is considered to be a quick team.

[nfreeman]

Gerbe had some very good shifts in the 3rd period.

In the long run though he won't get much of a chance to show his skills playing on the 4th line.

He was playing on the third line with the anti-christ who by the way has now scored in 3 straight games.

Don't give those semantics, he was playing with what I consider a 4th line center, and a 3rd/4th liner in Grier.

 

You can call it whatever you chose to call it, but I'm calling it the 4th line, because it is a 4th line.

It's not "semantics" to describe something correctly. Why not call it the 10th line if you're just going to make stuff up? It was clearly the 3rd line last night based on ice time (both Gaustad and Grier had over 16 minutes and Gerbe had over 14) and will continue to be such as long as they are together.

 

At least you didn't congratulate yourself for winning the argument.

 

When you step back, and look at where the team is in accordance with other teams that are contending for the Cup due to talent, the assessment made would be to add those skilled components, and by no means is the draft the only way. (Although, to hear Regier speak, you would think that is the case)

IMHO, what's missing isn't so much skill, it's the couple of players that have the whole package -- ie skill and guts -- like Kesler, Brenden Morrow, Zetterberg or Crosby. TC, Roy and Vanek have plenty of skill, but they don't have guts like those guys do. And our guys with guts don't have the skill.

 

I'm confused as to how we're getting all of this out of tonight's game. This one really didn't seem like anything to write home about. Nothing really stood out to me in person tonight. Now, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but I didn't see anything that screamed out to me that this is suddenly a better team minus Vanek.

Well, I thought there did seem to be more skill and speed on the ice last night. I will say, though, that this latest winning streak has come against a bunch of crappy teams. I'm not gonna get too optimistic until this team beats Washington, Pittsburgh, NJ or Ottawa.

 

I'd jump for joy if this trade happened, but I don't think Edmonton would do this....assuming they end up with one of the top 2 picks.

+1

[That Aud Smell]

I don't need anyone to defend me and I'm not sure he was. I admit I lost my cool but I'm here for dialogue and its obvious that whenever someone questions your rants, you go off on some incoherent rant.

it's a pity that i can hide x ray's content, but i can't hide from the collateral content he creates.

 

which is to say:

 

[inkman]

IMHO, what's missing isn't so much skill, it's the couple of players that have the whole package -- ie skill and guts -- like Kesler, Brenden Morrow, Zetterberg or Crosby. TC, Roy and Vanek have plenty of skill, but they don't have guts like those guys do. And our guys with guts don't have the skill.

As a drunken broadway Joe would say, "I want to kiss you.". Thank you for illustrating

my point far more eloquently than I've been able to.

[static70]

I'd jump for joy if this trade happened, but I don't think Edmonton would do this....assuming they end up with one of the top 2 picks.

Vanek, Stafford, Sekera/Butler, Buffalo's 3rd and 4th round picks

for

Edmontons 1st (assuming it is 1 or 2 overall), Shawn Horcroff or Sheldon Souray.

 

Frees up cap space for Vanek and Stafford to be brought in for Edmonton. By the time Horcroff's or Souray's contract is winding down, we are signing our young talent to longterm contracts, and who knows, a change of scenery and they may improve.

 

Just an example of the negotiating that may entice them to do it.

[nfreeman]

Vanek, Stafford, Sekera/Butler, Buffalo's 3rd and 4th round picks

for

Edmontons 1st (assuming it is 1 or 2 overall), Shawn Horcroff or Sheldon Souray.

 

Frees up cap space for Vanek and Stafford to be brought in for Edmonton. By the time Horcroff's or Souray's contract is winding down, we are signing our young talent to longterm contracts, and who knows, a change of scenery and they may improve.

 

Just an example of the negotiating that may entice them to do it.

Given how well the past few #1 overall picks have performed AND how much bang for the buck the team gets while the FNG is young, it's hard to see anyone parting with the top overall pick (or for that matter the #2) for any price. (I know, the pick would get traded for Ovechkin or Crosby, but no one is going to trade a top-5 player, period.)

[nfreeman]

As a drunken broadway Joe would say, "I want to kiss you.". Thank you for illustrating

my point far more eloquently than I've been able to.

Anytime, homie.

 

(The supportive post, not the kiss. Take that business over to PA's house where it belongs.)