Vanek deal

[Xray]

I've been saying that all year a elite level center will propell his game back to 40+ goals a year

What winger wouldn't improve with an elite level center?

And how many teams have elite level centers?

Logic says not many otherwise they wouldn't be referred to as elite.

[Xray]

taking the 4 1st rounders would have been terrible. you want 4 mystery draft pick who'll play wat off in the future for a star now? How dumb is that. He needs to play with a far better play maker as he scores goals that require a guy with exceptional passing ability. Try getting the guy a centermen.

How long is this list of centers you're talking about?

[JJFIVEOH]

FWIW Connolly, Roy, Vanek, Stafford, Pominville, and Hecht are averaging .696 PGP this year collectively while last year they averaged .744 PGP (not weighted for games played). When you consider that GPG in the league was 2.847 last year compared to 2.764 this year......

[shrader]

FWIW Connolly, Roy, Vanek, Stafford, Pominville, and Hecht are averaging .696 PGP this year collectively while last year they averaged .744 PGP (not weighted for games played). When you consider that GPG in the league was 2.847 last year compared to 2.764 this year......

 

I'll probably kick myself for not catching this one, but "PGP"?

[Xray]

Most people don't consider that not only would the Sabres have 4 1st rounders they'd also have the cap space taken by Vanek.

Even if all 4 draft picks went bust they'd have the option of signing free agents with that money.

[JJFIVEOH]

I'll probably kick myself for not catching this one, but "PGP"?

 

PPG

[Xray]

FWIW Connolly, Roy, Vanek, Stafford, Pominville, and Hecht are averaging .696 PGP this year collectively while last year they averaged .744 PGP (not weighted for games played). When you consider that GPG in the league was 2.847 last year compared to 2.764 this year......

I'm not familiar with PGP and GPG, but even so....

 

According to these numbers the six players you mention are down 6.5% compared to the 30 team league which is down down 2.9%.

 

More than double the drop off for the 30 team league.

 

The more logical comparison is Buffalo vs the other 29 teams, which would make the case worse.

[SabreNod]

Some fans can't enjoy their team no matter how excellent they are. Some fans can't appreciate the Sabres front office no matter how smart time proves them to be. Some fans will never be happy, barring a lossless season where they also sweep for the Cup and somehow acquire extra first round picks for the upcoming draft.

 

Now I recall why I don't come here very often anymore.

[JJFIVEOH]

I'm not familiar with PGP and GPG, but even so....

 

According to these numbers the six players you mention are down 6.5% compared to the 30 team league which is down down 2.9%.

 

More than double the drop off for the 30 team league.

 

The more logical comparison is Buffalo vs the other 29 teams, which would make the case worse.

 

OK, currently the Sabres are ranked #12 in the league in GPG (GOALS PER GAME), last year they were ranked.............................................................................................#12.

[JJFIVEOH]

Some fans can't enjoy their team no matter how excellent they are. Some fans can't appreciate the Sabres front office no matter how smart time proves them to be. Some fans will never be happy, barring a lossless season where they also sweep for the Cup and somehow acquire extra first round picks for the upcoming draft.

 

Now I recall why I don't come here very often anymore.

 

Yup!:thumbsup:

[Xray]

Some fans can't enjoy their team no matter how excellent they are. Some fans can't appreciate the Sabres front office no matter how smart time proves them to be. Some fans will never be happy, barring a lossless season where they also sweep for the Cup and somehow acquire extra first round picks for the upcoming draft.

 

Now I recall why I don't come here very often anymore.

You're not letting time takes it's course.

We're still in the regular season.

 

I don't know how you arrived at them having proven how smart they are.

[Xray]

OK, currently the Sabres are ranked #12 in the league in GPG (GOALS PER GAME), last year they were ranked.............................................................................................#12.

Ranking isn't the way to go.

The scoring distribution is different from year to year.

One year's 12th isn't necessarily the same scoring wise as the next.

It's possible for a 12th place team to be below the average in scoring.

[JJFIVEOH]

Ranking isn't the way to go.

The scoring distribution is different from year to year.

One year's 12th isn't necessarily the same scoring wise as the next.

It's possible for a 12th place team to be below the average in scoring.

 

Didn't you say the only way to compare is between the rest of the teams? All I was doing is proving that our top scorers aren't playing as poorly as has been lead on considering the drop in league scoring.

[henysgol]

You don't see any coloration between Vanek's struggles and the similar struggles of Connolly, Roy, Pominville and Stafford? All have struggled mightily to find and semblance of consistency under Lindy Ruff. Could it just be the players? It could be. I would be more inclined to feel that way if the same problems didn't seem to run consistently throughout the forward ranks.

 

You can even see similar problems in the defensive ranks. Sekera and Butler are currently taking turns in the press box. Lydman, Rivet and Montador have been train wrecks. The only blue-liners with any consistency to their game have been Myers and Tallinder. I could easily attribute that to the effect Myers is having on Tallinder's game and Myers not yet feeling the Lindy Ruff influence on his game. I remember when Sekera and Butler first came up and how fans were really excited about these guys and how they played. It seems the longer they play under Lindy Ruff the less effective they seem to be. Reminds me a lot of Kalinin.

 

Well, if the players don't like their coach, if they don't get along, or he doesn't let them get their 2 cents in and they hate him for it, or whatever, then yea maybe it is the coach. The media doesn't let us know everything that goes on behind closed doors. But still, from what I have witnessed via the media, I think the team likes their coach, and I think that the players have to just do what they're capable of doing and not be slackers or cry babies having little problems. Besides, Sabres are 3rd in the East 1 point behind Pittsburgh. They must be doing something right.

[deluca67]

Well, if the players don't like their coach, if they don't get along, or he doesn't let them get their 2 cents in and they hate him for it, or whatever, then yea maybe it is the coach. The media doesn't let us know everything that goes on behind closed doors. But still, from what I have witnessed via the media, I think the team likes their coach, and I think that the players have to just do what they're capable of doing and not be slackers or cry babies having little problems. Besides, Sabres are 3rd in the East 1 point behind Pittsburgh. They must be doing something right.

Did I say the players don't like Lindy? I am saying he doesn't make them better. He is a good coach in the sense of strategy. He is not a coach to develop younger player's skills.

 

Here are the updated standings.

 

1 * Washington Capitals

SE 73 49 14 10 108 287 206 +81 27-4-4 22-10-6 7-1-2 Won 2

2 * - Pittsburgh Penguins

ATL 74 42 25 7 91 228 212 +16 21-10-4 21-15-3 4-3-3

3 * - Ryan Miller

NE 72 40 22 10 90 203 182 +21 22-9-6 18-13-4 7-2-1 Won 4

4 New Jersey Devils

ATL 72 43 25 4 90 195 172 +23 25-10-1 18-15-3 5-4-1 Won 1

5 Ottawa Senators

NE 74 39 30 5 83 198 212 -14 24-10-4 15-20-1 3-6-1 Won 2

[Xray]

Didn't you say the only way to compare is between the rest of the teams? All I was doing is proving that our top scorers aren't playing as poorly as has been lead on considering the drop in league scoring.

Yeah I did say that the way to go is to compare Buffalo to the 29 other team but not by the method you are using.

 

I know you were TRYING to prove that their scoring hasn't gone down at a rate that is much worse than the league average.

 

I questioned the method that you used.

12th place doesn't give really give you a metric to go by.

 

I would use the average scoring of the other 29 teams.

The total goals divided by 29.

[henysgol]

Did I say the players don't like Lindy? I am saying he doesn't make them better. He is a good coach in the sense of strategy. He is not a coach to develop younger player's skills.

 

Here are the updated standings.

 

1 * Washington Capitals

SE 73 49 14 10 108 287 206 +81 27-4-4 22-10-6 7-1-2 Won 2

2 * - Pittsburgh Penguins

ATL 74 42 25 7 91 228 212 +16 21-10-4 21-15-3 4-3-3

3 * - Ryan Miller

NE 72 40 22 10 90 203 182 +21 22-9-6 18-13-4 7-2-1 Won 4

4 New Jersey Devils

ATL 72 43 25 4 90 195 172 +23 25-10-1 18-15-3 5-4-1 Won 1

5 Ottawa Senators

NE 74 39 30 5 83 198 212 -14 24-10-4 15-20-1 3-6-1 Won 2

 

It's not all Miller, he's not scoring goals. And I STILL think it's the players themselves when it comes to their individual play, AND that's just a minor thing to me because the standings speak for themselves: the team is doing well. Maybe they ARE surging at the end of the season because Miller has giant balls now. That's a good thing! I don't think 3rd place is mediocre. Can a team ride their goaltender to a Stanley Cup, or at least lean on him? Yes they can! But like I said, it's not all Miller.

[JJFIVEOH]

It's not all Miller, he's not scoring goals. And I STILL think it's the players themselves when it comes to their individual play, AND that's just a minor thing to me because the standings speak for themselves: the team is doing well. Maybe they ARE surging at the end of the season because Miller has giant balls now. That's a good thing! I don't think 3rd place is mediocre. Can a team ride their goaltender to a Stanley Cup, or at least lean on him? Yes they can! But like I said, it's not all Miller.

 

I agree! The best goaltenders in the league won't go anywhere without at least a good team around him. Isn't that right Tuukka Rask, Tomas Vokoun, Roberto Luongo, Miikka Kiprusoff, Henrik Lundquist,......................

[tom webster]

Yeah I did say that the way to go is to compare Buffalo to the 29 other team but not by the method you are using.

 

I know you were TRYING to prove that their scoring hasn't gone down at a rate that is much worse than the league average.

 

I questioned the method that you used.

12th place doesn't give really give you a metric to go by.

 

I would use the average scoring of the other 29 teams.

The total goals divided by 29.

 

 

For the record, scoring isn't down dramatically throughout the league. At the current average goals per game, the league will be down "only" 210 goals form the year before.

Through 1230 games, the league scored 7006 goals. This year through 1095 games, the league has scored 6050 goals.

The Sabres last year averaged 2.95 goals per game this year they are averaging 2.76. Their entire drop, barring a dramatic change in the last 10 games is the result of power play goals. Their 5 on 5 scoring is almost identical, 1.88 to 1.87.

All numbers are per nhl.com.

[Xray]

For the record, scoring isn't down dramatically throughout the league. At the current average goals per game, the league will be down "only" 210 goals form the year before.

Through 1230 games, the league scored 7006 goals. This year through 1095 games, the league has scored 6050 goals.

The Sabres last year averaged 2.95 goals per game this year they are averaging 2.76. Their entire drop, barring a dramatic change in the last 10 games is the result of power play goals. Their 5 on 5 scoring is almost identical, 1.88 to 1.87.

All numbers are per nhl.com.

 

Their drop off over three consecutive years is dramatic.

[tom webster]

Their drop off over three consecutive years is dramatic.

 

If you mean since the President's trophy, of course it is. The difference of course is in the 5 on 5 which is down about .6 goals per game. That is almost the entire difference. (3.63 to 2.76 total goals per game)

 

For the last 2 and 3/4 years, however, 5 on 5 has been almost constant.

[Xray]

If you mean since the President's trophy, of course it is. The difference of course is in the 5 on 5 which is down about .6 goals per game. That is almost the entire difference. (3.63 to 2.76 total goals per game)

 

For the last 2 and 3/4 years, however, 5 on 5 has been almost constant.

Buffalo's biggest year scoring wise since the lockout was 2006-2007.

[tom webster]

Buffalo's biggest year scoring wise since the lockout was 2006-2007.

 

 

Well, there is a revelation. It was their biggest year scoring wise since Lafontaine.

[Xray]

Well, there is a revelation. It was their biggest year scoring wise since Lafontaine.

It went way over your head.

here...

The drop off in scoring between 2005-2006 & 2006-2007 is the most significant since the lockout.

Buffalo's biggest scoring year post lockout occurred AFTER that drop off.

Buffalo's drop off in scoring since 2007 cannot be accounted for by any league trend.

 

It's more accurate to say they were one of the teams that set the trend, instead they play it off as if they are a consequence of it.

Give them credit for doing a masterful job of getting unwitting fans to buy into it.

[tom webster]

It went way over your head.

here...

Between 2005-2006 & 2006- 2007 is when the most significant drop off in scoring took place (since the lockout).

Buffalo's drop off in scoring since 2007 cannot be accounted for by any league trend alone.

 

I'm sure first you misspoke as you must know that their scoring went up between 05/06 and 06/07.

After that, the rest went over your head, the only drop off in scoring since 07 has been special team goals. In the last three years the Sabres' 5 on 5 scoring has been

07/08 162

08/09 154

09/10 154(on pace for)

 

We all know what accounted for their drop off between 05/06 and 06/07.