Mancari = Torres?

[inkman]

So watching last nights game got me thinking a little. Has Mark Mancari filled the role that we thought Torres was going to fill? I realize this is extraordinarily premature but I'm hoping the big guy makes it. Paul Hamilton harps on Mancari's skating ability or lack-there-of, but if Gaustad can overcome his skating issues, I'm guessing Mark can to.

 

Here's to hoping... :beer:

[thesportsbuff]

I think the two of them combined can and will help the Sabres improve. Mancari has been impressive in his first two games, while Torres hasn't made much of an impact. But I think both of them will work hard, maybe harder than the rest of the team now that they suddenly have an opportunity to go to the playoffs and win the cup, where as before they were restricted to the AHL and the NHL's last ranked club.

 

Here is a blog I wrote about Mancari after last night's game: http://bit.ly/bG4rpm

[R_Dudley]

Good question however for me the jury is still out on this one. If what we are told is true Dineen has had Mancari playing the same system in Portland and that is why he would mesh better from the get go than Torres.

 

Another good question may be 'what is a reasonable amount of time for a player to adjust their game to a different system?'. I suppose it could be effected by how much of their game over time has been built around reaction(just play) vs. vision/adjust/strategy (head/think) first based.

[thesportsbuff]

Good question however for me the jury is still out on this one. If what we are told is true Dineen has had Mancari playing the same system in Portland and that is why he would mesh better from the get go than Torres.

 

Another good question may be 'what is a reasonable amount of time for a player to adjust their game to a different system?'. I suppose it could be effected by how much of their game over time has been built around reaction(just play) vs. vision/adjust/strategy (head/think) first based.

 

That is true, and how many time have we seen players come up and do great in their first few games, then start disappearing for long stretches or until they're sent down?

[SwampD]

Good question however for me the jury is still out on this one. If what we are told is true Dineen has had Mancari playing the same system in Portland and that is why he would mesh better from the get go than Torres.

 

Another good question may be 'what is a reasonable amount of time for a player to adjust their game to a different system?'. I suppose it could be effected by how much of their game over time has been built around reaction(just play) vs. vision/adjust/strategy (head/think) first based.

 

 

That is true, and how many time have we seen players come up and do great in their first few games, then start disappearing for long stretches or until they're sent down?

Torres even said he wasn't much of a thinker on the ice. Let's just hope that he was never forced to. If he can get that part of the game maybe he will be even better once he gets it. I've liked his play so far.

[thesportsbuff]

Torres even said he wasn't much of a thinker on the ice. Let's just hope that he was never forced to. If he can get that part of the game maybe he will be even better once he gets it. I've liked his play so far.

 

For sure. My post wasn't meant as a knock on Torres, but just pointing out a question mark on Mancari. I think Torres has played well, but Mancari clearly provided a spark the last few games. If he continues it, why not keep him in the lineup? (not in place of Torres though)

[deluca67]

It would be great for Macari and the organization if he is able to break the Stafford, Paille and MacArthur mold and find the motivation to give a consistent effort.

[Stoner]

That is true, and how many time have we seen players come up and do great in their first few games, then start disappearing for long stretches or until they're sent down?

 

You mean they do great until Ruff gets his hooks into them?

[Lethbridge Broncos]

Mancari is a savvy/ clever player. He has been so at every level he has played at (and he scores points and has always been productive). In the OHL championship against the Knights a few years back, he was the best 67's player on the ice and scored 14 goals in 21 games. He has very soft hands and a heavy snap, wrist and slap shot (and he can get these shots off in tight spots). He can also take passes at full speed that are in his skates or behind him. At full speed last night (v. Dallas), as he was cutting across the neutral zone, he took a terrible pass from a defensman with ease and took it up ice and got off a good shot that kept Turco honest. The pass to Vanek from behind the net was not an easy one with the way his body was contorted. The guy drives the net and will sit there looking for rebounds. With Vanek and Roy -- Mancari creates space. He lumbers around and is hard to knock off the puck. He rags it well and uses his feet along the wall. That extra second or two seems to free up the little waterbugs Roy and Vanek or the other little guys he has played with over the years (Tyler Ennis, Gerbe, Kennedy). Stafford is not as strong or powerfull as Mancari -- and can not sustain forchecks as well IMO. Stafford thinks to fancy. Mancari is a hungry player. He is a leader. And he is a big fella that can get up and down the ice and help this smallish team create and sustain offense every shift he has b/k of his size, balance, patience and skill set. It is also nice to see a guy on the bench wearing no visor, engaged in the game with a passion/emotion in he eyes during/ after every shift.

 

Mancari, to stick, needs to not drift around (always move his feet at all times); keep his shifts short; and backcheck. He will play 80+ games next season if he does that. Also remember, Dallas is TERRIBLE. Their runt defense made the Sabres look good. When the Sabres play the Pens or Caps -- then Sabre fans will see how good the new lines look.

 

All in all, a healthy Guastad should replace Kennedy. Stafford is the odd man out right now. And Ellis and Mair have been excellent, as both have played a great checking roll for the team. The Mair, Torres and Keleta line last night was dynamic, effective and mean. Torres is a playoff player. His game is to be stong on the wall and drive the net and get off a few heavy shots here and there. His value in the playoff, when the room on the ice 'drys-up' and games are close checking, will be apparent. With the Oil during their deep playoff run several years ago, he was the best body checker on the ice. He was tatooing guys into the wall every shift. His aggressive play is an upgrade to the often confussed/ lazy McCarthur.

[nobody]

Good question however for me the jury is still out on this one. If what we are told is true Dineen has had Mancari playing the same system in Portland and that is why he would mesh better from the get go than Torres.

 

Another good question may be 'what is a reasonable amount of time for a player to adjust their game to a different system?'. I suppose it could be effected by how much of their game over time has been built around reaction(just play) vs. vision/adjust/strategy (head/think) first based.

 

 

I would think that when Mancari cools down (hope it doesn't happen!) that Torres will have adjusted to the new system and his game will pick up (hopefully that part happens quickly!).

[wonderbread]

Mancari is a savvy/ clever player. He has been so at every level he has played at (and he scores points and has always been productive). In the OHL championship against the Knights a few years back, he was the best 67's player on the ice and scored 14 goals in 21 games. He has very soft hands and a heavy snap, wrist and slap shot (and he can get these shots off in tight spots). He can also take passes at full speed that are in his skates or behind him. At full speed last night (v. Dallas), as he was cutting across the neutral zone, he took a terrible pass from a defensman with ease and took it up ice and got off a good shot that kept Turco honest. The pass to Vanek from behind the net was not an easy one with the way his body was contorted. The guy drives the net and will sit there looking for rebounds. With Vanek and Roy -- Mancari creates space. He lumbers around and is hard to knock off the puck. He rags it well and uses his feet along the wall. That extra second or two seems to free up the little waterbugs Roy and Vanek or the other little guys he has played with over the years (Tyler Ennis, Gerbe, Kennedy). Stafford is not as strong or powerfull as Mancari -- and can not sustain forchecks as well IMO. Stafford thinks to fancy. Mancari is a hungry player. He is a leader. And he is a big fella that can get up and down the ice and help this smallish team create and sustain offense every shift he has b/k of his size, balance, patience and skill set. It is also nice to see a guy on the bench wearing no visor, engaged in the game with a passion/emotion in he eyes during/ after every shift.

 

Mancari, to stick, needs to not drift around (always move his feet at all times); keep his shifts short; and backcheck. He will play 80+ games next season if he does that. Also remember, Dallas is TERRIBLE. Their runt defense made the Sabres look good. When the Sabres play the Pens or Caps -- then Sabre fans will see how good the new lines look.

 

All in all, a healthy Guastad should replace Kennedy. Stafford is the odd man out right now. And Ellis and Mair have been excellent, as both have played a great checking roll for the team. The Mair, Torres and Keleta line last night was dynamic, effective and mean. Torres is a playoff player. His game is to be stong on the wall and drive the net and get off a few heavy shots here and there. His value in the playoff, when the room on the ice 'drys-up' and games are close checking, will be apparent. With the Oil during their deep playoff run several years ago, he was the best body checker on the ice. He was tatooing guys into the wall every shift. His aggressive play is an upgrade to the often confussed/ lazy McCarthur.

 

 

I was thinking about you last night. I figured you'd be salivating at Mancari's night.

[LabattBlue]

Mancari is a savvy/ clever player. He has been so at every level he has played at (and he scores points and has always been productive). In the OHL championship against the Knights a few years back, he was the best 67's player on the ice and scored 14 goals in 21 games. He has very soft hands and a heavy snap, wrist and slap shot (and he can get these shots off in tight spots). He can also take passes at full speed that are in his skates or behind him. At full speed last night (v. Dallas), as he was cutting across the neutral zone, he took a terrible pass from a defensman with ease and took it up ice and got off a good shot that kept Turco honest. The pass to Vanek from behind the net was not an easy one with the way his body was contorted. The guy drives the net and will sit there looking for rebounds. With Vanek and Roy -- Mancari creates space. He lumbers around and is hard to knock off the puck. He rags it well and uses his feet along the wall. That extra second or two seems to free up the little waterbugs Roy and Vanek or the other little guys he has played with over the years (Tyler Ennis, Gerbe, Kennedy). Stafford is not as strong or powerfull as Mancari -- and can not sustain forchecks as well IMO. Stafford thinks to fancy. Mancari is a hungry player. He is a leader. And he is a big fella that can get up and down the ice and help this smallish team create and sustain offense every shift he has b/k of his size, balance, patience and skill set. It is also nice to see a guy on the bench wearing no visor, engaged in the game with a passion/emotion in he eyes during/ after every shift.

 

Mancari, to stick, needs to not drift around (always move his feet at all times); keep his shifts short; and backcheck. He will play 80+ games next season if he does that. Also remember, Dallas is TERRIBLE. Their runt defense made the Sabres look good. When the Sabres play the Pens or Caps -- then Sabre fans will see how good the new lines look.

I should have known that the Mancari "man love" would be on the way from you after his performance last night. :lol:

[inkman]

Mancari is a savvy/ clever player.

I was thinking about you last night. I figured you'd be salivating at Mancari's night.

I should have known that the Mancari "man love" would be on the way from you after his performance last night. :lol:

I think LB forgot "/removes Mark's ###### from mouth" from the end of his post.

[LabattBlue]

I think LB forgot "/removes Mark's ###### from mouth" from the end of his post.

:lol:

[Lethbridge Broncos]

LOL! Good stuff.

 

If this kid starts to drift around under the score clock looking for pucks to hit him -- he will be on a bus back to Portland. He needs to FOCUSed on every shift to make the right play in either zone and stay hungry.

 

With this guy, it is all mental. He can either be Wayne Primeau OR a 'poor-mans' Glen Murray (old Bruins winger). Wayne could not stay focused and didnt have the soft hands. He was too tight and rigid. Like Murray, Mancari is loose and a good stick handler. His quick release and pissed-off attitude are things that drive a player to produce. He might be the tonic that makes Vanek come alive.

 

Stafford could not create ice room for his linemates. Stafford likes to skate into space at top speed with the puck -- not grind along the walls, drive the net or create trouble in the violent parts of the ice. Not many player do like to do that. But Mancari happily lumbers into these area like a dumb bull heading into a fine china shop -- but his soft hands seem to compensate for his lumbering skating stride and allow for him to make subtle/ clever little plays. He might turn out to be a very good wall player.

 

Again, it is nice to have a non-visor wearing hulking player on the bench and in the room. When they go on the road into a hostile environment -- he will be comforting to have around. And when Gaustad comes back, and now with a violent Torres, this club has sufficient fiber to sustain forechecks and let their skills panzies (Pominville, Roy, Vanek, Connolly, Hecht) "paint their canvas". It will be interesting to see how this lineup does against the Sens, Pens and Caps.

[inkman]

/removes Mark's ###### from his ######

[SarasotaSabre]

Not sure why Mancari's lack of visor was relevant to the points you are trying to make...can you please enlighten us? You lost me with that comment

 

Mancari is a savvy/ clever player. He has been so at every level he has played at (and he scores points and has always been productive). In the OHL championship against the Knights a few years back, he was the best 67's player on the ice and scored 14 goals in 21 games. He has very soft hands and a heavy snap, wrist and slap shot (and he can get these shots off in tight spots). He can also take passes at full speed that are in his skates or behind him. At full speed last night (v. Dallas), as he was cutting across the neutral zone, he took a terrible pass from a defensman with ease and took it up ice and got off a good shot that kept Turco honest. The pass to Vanek from behind the net was not an easy one with the way his body was contorted. The guy drives the net and will sit there looking for rebounds. With Vanek and Roy -- Mancari creates space. He lumbers around and is hard to knock off the puck. He rags it well and uses his feet along the wall. That extra second or two seems to free up the little waterbugs Roy and Vanek or the other little guys he has played with over the years (Tyler Ennis, Gerbe, Kennedy). Stafford is not as strong or powerfull as Mancari -- and can not sustain forchecks as well IMO. Stafford thinks to fancy. Mancari is a hungry player. He is a leader. And he is a big fella that can get up and down the ice and help this smallish team create and sustain offense every shift he has b/k of his size, balance, patience and skill set. It is also nice to see a guy on the bench wearing no visor, engaged in the game with a passion/emotion in he eyes during/ after every shift.

 

Mancari, to stick, needs to not drift around (always move his feet at all times); keep his shifts short; and backcheck. He will play 80+ games next season if he does that. Also remember, Dallas is TERRIBLE. Their runt defense made the Sabres look good. When the Sabres play the Pens or Caps -- then Sabre fans will see how good the new lines look.

 

All in all, a healthy Guastad should replace Kennedy. Stafford is the odd man out right now. And Ellis and Mair have been excellent, as both have played a great checking roll for the team. The Mair, Torres and Keleta line last night was dynamic, effective and mean. Torres is a playoff player. His game is to be stong on the wall and drive the net and get off a few heavy shots here and there. His value in the playoff, when the room on the ice 'drys-up' and games are close checking, will be apparent. With the Oil during their deep playoff run several years ago, he was the best body checker on the ice. He was tatooing guys into the wall every shift. His aggressive play is an upgrade to the often confussed/ lazy McCarthur.

[inkman]

Not sure why Mancari's lack of visor was relevant to the points you are trying to make...can you please enlighten us? You lost me with that comment

You know, it means he's not a ######!!

[Stoner]

You know, it means he's not a ######!!

 

He's not Jewish? Huh?

[static70]

Vanek-Roy-Mancari are finding chemistry, Mancari stays up, this line is working and Mancari positions himself well. Stafford is out.

 

Kennedy-Connolly-Pomminstein needs to happen. Hecht is inconsistent and Kennedy has a much grittier game with him, he has a tight turn radius and isn't afraid to go into the corners. He has puck control ability and his original position was LW, he doesn't look comfortable at Center.

 

Torres-?-Stafford. Missing element here is a center. Mair? Who knows, but Ennis isn't coming up and this team is 1 short on talented centers, hence Kennedy at center.

 

Hecht-Goose-Kaleta. Hecht isn't the first choice for a line like this, but LW on this team offers Ellis as the other choice. I'll take Hecht given his ability to contribute lately.

 

Grier and Mair sitting on the outside looking in. But Grier is a great defensive forward, so who really would be on the outside looking in? Would it be Ellis and Mair?

[SarasotaSabre]

I didn't know they gave out rings at the Holocaust....))

 

He's not Jewish? Huh?

[nfreeman]

He has very soft hands and a heavy snap, wrist and slap shot (and he can get these shots off in tight spots).

 

He can also take passes at full speed that are in his skates or behind him. At full speed last night (v. Dallas), as he was cutting across the neutral zone, he took a terrible pass from a defensman with ease and took it up ice and got off a good shot that kept Turco honest.

 

The pass to Vanek from behind the net was not an easy one with the way his body was contorted.

 

The guy drives the net and will sit there looking for rebounds.

 

With Vanek and Roy -- Mancari creates space.

 

He lumbers around and is hard to knock off the puck.

 

Also remember, Dallas is TERRIBLE. Their runt defense made the Sabres look good. When the Sabres play the Pens or Caps -- then Sabre fans will see how good the new lines look.

 

All in all, a healthy Guastad should replace Kennedy. Stafford is the odd man out right now. And Ellis and Mair have been excellent, as both have played a great checking roll for the team. The Mair, Torres and Keleta line last night was dynamic, effective and mean. Torres is a playoff player. His game is to be stong on the wall and drive the net and get off a few heavy shots here and there. His value in the playoff, when the room on the ice 'drys-up' and games are close checking, will be apparent.

With this guy, it is all mental.

 

His quick release and pissed-off attitude are things that drive a player to produce.

 

He might be the tonic that makes Vanek come alive.

 

Stafford could not create ice room for his linemates. Stafford likes to skate into space at top speed with the puck -- not grind along the walls, drive the net or create trouble in the violent parts of the ice. Not many player do like to do that. But Mancari happily lumbers into these area like a dumb bull heading into a fine china shop -- but his soft hands seem to compensate for his lumbering skating stride and allow for him to make subtle/ clever little plays. He might turn out to be a very good wall player.

 

Again, it is nice to have a non-visor wearing hulking player on the bench and in the room. When they go on the road into a hostile environment -- he will be comforting to have around. And when Gaustad comes back, and now with a violent Torres, this club has sufficient fiber to sustain forechecks and let their skills panzies (Pominville, Roy, Vanek, Connolly, Hecht) "paint their canvas".

 

It will be interesting to see how this lineup does against the Sens, Pens and Caps.

Wow. I can't agree with all of these statements yet, because it's only been a couple of games, but all of this looked true last night. (But I agree that last night wasn't a real test -- Dallas just doesn't play any D.)

 

Right now, subtracting Stafford and MacArthur in favor of Torres and Mancari looks like a substantial net gain in size, grit and willingness to hang out in the "violent" areas (as you describe them). Add a healthy Kaleta (and Gaustad when he returns, most likely in favor of Kennedy but possibly Mair or Ellis) and suddenly the forward ranks have a decent amount of size and grit.

 

Mancari has been dying for a shot. Now he's got it -- and he's playing with Roy and Vanek and getting 18 minutes per game. If he stays hungry and focused, who knows? We might just get lucky and have a real contributor.

[shrader]

Vanek-Roy-Mancari are finding chemistry, Mancari stays up, this line is working and Mancari positions himself well. Stafford is out.

 

Vanek-Kennedy-Grier had immediate success and then never went anywhere beyond that first game. I'm going to need to see more of this combination before I jump to any conclusions. My thoughts all along have been that Roy-Vanek have needed a larger body out there that can absorb a little punishment and hopefully this is a setup they can build upon and thrive. Only time will tell.

[LabattBlue]

Vanek-Kennedy-Grier had immediate success and then never went anywhere beyond that first game. I'm going to need to see more of this combination before I jump to any conclusions. My thoughts all along have been that Roy-Vanek have needed a larger body out there that can absorb a little punishment and hopefully this is a setup they can build upon and thrive. Only time will tell.

I agree. Not to be pessimistic, but Mancari has had a few chances in the past and never seized the opportunity. Maybe the light bulb finally came on or maybe he just looked good against a team that is playing like ###### nowadays(dallas has given up 25 goals in their last 5 games).

 

Only time will tell.

[Two or less]

I agree. Not to be pessimistic, but Mancari has had a few chances in the past and never seized the opportunity. Maybe the light bulb finally came on or maybe he just looked good against a team that is playing like ###### nowadays(dallas has given up 25 goals in their last 5 games).

 

Only time will tell.

 

Mancari is soft. That's always been his problem. He's a elite player in the AHL because of his hard shot and defensive breakdowns, plus he's older then a lot of his opponents, but, in the NHL, he needs to use his size, he needs to fight for the puck in the corners, he needs to get into the right spots, which has always been a problem for him and why he'll never make it in the NHL.