If I could I would

[TomSmith]

Look at the numbers, take away both teams top goal scorers, pro rate the Sabres and see the huge difference. Check out production from the third and fourth lines. Check out those playoff stats. How many goals did Pittsburgh get from guys that weren't there top 6? I'll give you a hint. Crosby, Malkin, Stall, Guerin, Fedotenko and Koonitz scored 47 goals. Talbot had 8. Everyone else totaled 10.

UMMM Crosby Stall and Malkin alone account for $20 million.

 

I'm giving you regular season goals, that's what we have to go by because the Sabres haven't been to the playoffs for years.

We have no metric on what the Sabres will do in the playoffs.

 

For an example Gooser has appeared in 25 playoffs games and has never scored a single goal. But you want to say him and players like him are as good as the 3rd/4th liners for the Pittsurgh team that won the cup.

 

How many playoff goals has Ellis scored or Mair or Greir.

Wake up already.

[tom webster]

Just did it for you.

 

Last year, the 3rd through 11th goal scorers for Pittsburgh totaled 142 goals.

This year, prorating the Sabres scorers and not even taking into account that some played less then 60 games, they will total 141.

 

Now I see what you mean.

[TomSmith]

Just did it for you.

 

Last year, the 3rd through 11th goal scorers for Pittsburgh totaled 142 goals.

This year, prorating the Sabres scorers and not even taking into account that some played less then 60 games, they will total 141.

 

Now I see what you mean.

You keep conveniently leaving out the two players they picked up at the deadline.

So I'm reminding you again.

 

They operate differently than the Sabres, they have to because they are capped out.

They can't carry those salaries for the entire season and they also know that come playoff time they need to be deep to win it.

That's why you see them trade off draft picks and prospects.

 

They know they need depth but you don't know it.

You think they go in with 3rd and 4th liners like we have but you're in the dark.

 

And I don't think I can get it through to you.

So what you need to do is just go on believing this stuff you hear.

 

Let's take a shot and see if you can understand this....the team you go to the playoffs with is the team you compete in the playoffs with and that is not necessarily the team you had prior to trades at the trade deadline.

 

Is this really that complicated?

[Rico7]

I'm pretty much starting to wonder about the relationship TomWebster has with TomSmith. Perhaps TomSmith is an alter-ego created by Webster to argue with himself? ;)

 

 

 

Fight Club?

 

Oops. I forgot I wasn't supposed to talk about that! :doh:

[ThePebble19]

You keep conveniently leaving out the two players they picked up at the deadline.

So I'm reminding you again.

 

They operate differently than the Sabres, they have to because they are capped out.

They can't carry those salaries for the entire season and they also know that come playoff time they need to be deep to win it.

That's why you see them trade off draft picks and prospects.

 

They know they need depth but you don't know it.

You think they go in with 3rd and 4th liners like we have but you're in the dark.

 

And I don't think I can get it through to you.

So what you need to do is just go on believing this stuff you hear.

 

Let's take a shot and see if you can understand this....the team you go to the playoffs with is the team you compete in the playoffs with and that is not necessarily the team you had prior to the trade deadline.

 

Is that really that complicated?

 

Why do you keep conveniently leaving out that the top two scorers on the Pens have almost double the scoring that our top two scorers have? You keep preaching depth, depth, depth, depth...You know why those teams look so deep? Why do those forwards that would be otherwise mediocre on another team put up great numbers as "depth guys?" It is because of the greatness on the top two lines.

 

If we even had ONE line that other teams actually HAD to gameplan against, our depth would look a heck of a lot better. Massive goal scoring in your top 6 force other teams to create matchups against those players. In turn, that frees up our bottom two lines to create better matchups when they are on the ice, thus turning into more scoring chances, and more productivity.

 

The Sabres problem is in the top 6 guys, not the bottom 6.

[carpandean]

Interesting side note: I looked back the full play-by-play of game 1 from last year's SCF and noticed that Pittsburgh carried 7 defensemen and just 11 forwards. Near as I could tell, they never ran a defenseman at forward, either. They simply used three centers with four winger pairs for most of the game.

[tom webster]

You keep conveniently leaving out the two players they picked up at the deadline.

So I'm reminding you again.

 

They operate differently than the Sabres, they have to because they are capped out.

They can't carry those salaries for the entire season and they also know that come playoff time they need to be deep to win it.

That's why you see them trade off draft picks and prospects.

 

They know they need depth but you don't know it.

You think they go in with 3rd and 4th liners like we have but you're in the dark.

 

And I don't think I can get it through to you.

So what you need to do is just go on believing this stuff you hear.

 

Let's take a shot and see if you can understand this....the team you go to the playoffs with is the team you compete in the playoffs with and that is not necessarily the team you had prior to trades at the trade deadline.

 

Is this really that complicated?

 

 

You must have a reading comprehension problem.

 

I started a thread saying that the Sabres needed to add to their top 6. I know they need more scoring. The problem is you seem to not understand that guys like Gaustad and Grier for Buffalo and Talbot and Adams for Pittsburgh are important parts of the equation.

[TomSmith]

So, I'm having a good ol' time playing around on nhlnumbers.com today (instead of working like I should be) and I'm shocked to find out that Pommer is the third highest paid right winger in the game in terms of cap hit. Vanek is the 4th highest paid left winger. Oof.

 

Looking at some of the guys who make less than our "elite" players is painful. Example: Who would you rather have at right wing, Pommer or Corey Perry? They're paid almost exactly the same... Vanek makes more than twice what Zach Parise makes and they're only 1 year apart in age. Urgh.

All true.

But who's fault is it?

 

It's not the player's fault, they were offered the money and took it.

Some fans have the attitude that the top 5 or 6 is crap.

Well you can't gut a team and just point the finger at who's left.

There is no way that they'll be as strong a team as they were with Drury Breire Campbell Spacek and Dumont.

 

They need replacements.

Fans want to believe that the top 5 or 6 should magically be as good as the top players in league after management guts the team.

 

Let me put it this way, If they trade Vanek and Roy tomorrow, should one of the players left on the roster be expected to elevate his game to Malkin level?

That doesn't make any sense.

 

Teams are built differently, all of them are.

Anyone that says otherwise doesn't have clue one.

 

Some teams have superstars that carry the load, others have fewer stars but are deeper in second tier players.

There is no set blueprint for winning a cup.

 

Some of the dumbest slop I read is, teams don't win with three lines that can score as if a line that cannot score gives you a better chance.

 

Believe me these teams will take all the scoring they can get, look at Chicago picking up Hossa.

Don't fans think that Bowman knows a few things about hockey?

 

Buffalo had a team very deep in second tier players which would still be one of the league's best teams today.

They were gutted.

 

The best way for them to get back to that level, is to replace some of what they lost.

 

Hoping that the players that remain will turn into Crosby's and Malkin's is useless.

 

Get rid of some of these grinders and give this offense a shot in the arm, you don't need to trade for a Kovalchuk, and I don't mean Zubrus or Dominic Moore either.

[nobody]

I'm in Delaware, Delaware What the hell is there to do in Delaware?

 

 

Delaware, Delaware? Is that like New York, New York?

[TomSmith]

So, let me get this straight. Pretty much, the basis of your argument, is that there is not one valuable forward on this roster, am I correct? Because that is the vibe I am getting from your posts.

Are you new to reading, or maybe english is your second language.

I'm trying to explain that the Sabres main problem isn't their skill players. The problem is they don't have enough of them.

[TomSmith]

You must have a reading comprehension problem.

 

I started a thread saying that the Sabres needed to add to their top 6. I know they need more scoring. The problem is you seem to not understand that guys like Gaustad and Grier for Buffalo and Talbot and Adams for Pittsburgh are important parts of the equation.

You don't seem to understand that you cannot hang on to all these sentimental fan favorites and add skill at the same time.

 

Most fans think they can just swap out top six players, that won't do the trick unless somehow Buffalo picks up a high ticket player(s).

 

Instead they need to add to the ranks, not just change out players on the top 6.

In order to add skill players one or more of the grunts has to go as painful as that might be to fans who get attached to them.

[TomSmith]

Why do you keep conveniently leaving out that the top two scorers on the Pens have almost double the scoring that our top two scorers have? You keep preaching depth, depth, depth, depth...You know why those teams look so deep? Why do those forwards that would be otherwise mediocre on another team put up great numbers as "depth guys?" It is because of the greatness on the top two lines.

 

If we even had ONE line that other teams actually HAD to gameplan against, our depth would look a heck of a lot better. Massive goal scoring in your top 6 force other teams to create matchups against those players. In turn, that frees up our bottom two lines to create better matchups when they are on the ice, thus turning into more scoring chances, and more productivity.

 

The Sabres problem is in the top 6 guys, not the bottom 6.

You tell me who it is on that bottom 6 that is being held back.

Who?

 

Under ANY circumstance do you see players like Mair Ellis Gaustad or Greir turning into good secondary scorers?

Who's feeding you this fair y tale?

[tom webster]

You don't seem to understand that you cannot hang on to all these sentimental fan favorites and add skill at the same time.

 

Most fans think they can just swap out top six players, that won't do the trick unless somehow Buffalo picks up a high ticket player(s).

 

Instead they need to add to the ranks, not just change out players on the top 6.

In order to add skill players one or more of the grunts has to go as painful as that might be to fans who get attached to them.

 

Who the hell you think I amn attached to? Gaustad and Grier are important pieces but I would trade either one if it improved the team. Also, adding to the top 6 makes Stafford a third liner and improves the overall depth on the team.

[TomSmith]

Who the hell you think I amn attached to? Gaustad and Grier are important pieces but I would trade either one if it improved the team. Also, adding to the top 6 makes Stafford a third liner and improves the overall depth on the team.

More importantly get Gaustad back on that 4th line

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

It was time.............

[Bigthuder1636]

I would love to see Jack Johnson here in front of Miller. I really liked his play in the olympics and it seemed that he and Miller built a rapport. I am not sure of his contract status and it would probably take a fair bit in compensation, but I think it would really help this team long term

[static70]

Sidney Crosby to Buffalo Campaign, when does it start? :unsure:

[FearTheReaper]

Well since this is a fantasy thread here goes.

 

Vanek, 1st, Gerbe for Kovalchuk.

 

Pominville, 3rd for Getzlaf

 

Hecht, Sekera for Sharp

[deluca67]

True only to an extent.

You replace Connolly Roy Pominville and Vanek with Crosby Makin and Stall and the Sabres still wouldn't win the cup.

What are you going to do make a line out of Goose Mair and Stall?

 

Buffalo isn't deep enough.

Malkin and Crosby with the year Miller is having? No one knows if they would win the Cup, they would be a lot of people's favorite, me included even with the defense as is. Malkin and Crosby are legit stars that not only make the players around them better they can also create their offense. They would not only be the teams best players they would be the teams hardest working players. That is what this team is missing most. That fire to win from the so called "core." The core is a reflection of it's creator Darcy "The Trent Edwards of GMs" Regier.

[deluca67]

Well since this is a fantasy thread here goes.

 

Vanek, 1st, Gerbe for Kovalchuk.

 

Pominville, 3rd for Getzlaf

 

Hecht, Sekera for Sharp

The real "fantasy" is that anyone would take Pominville in return with that ridiculous contract. That contract alone should be enough to send the GM packing. Unfortunately, we all know the front office has about as much accountability as the players n the ice have stones.

[LabattBlue]

The real "fantasy" is that anyone would take Pominville in return with that ridiculous contract. That contract alone should be enough to send the GM packing. Unfortunately, we all know the front office has about as much accountability as the players n the ice have stones.

I am of the firm belief that they were so shell shocked by the D&B fiasco, that they went crazy with the contracts to Vanek(they didn't have to match despite everyone saying so), Pominville, Connolly, Hecht and Gaustad.

[Iron Crotch]

It was time.............

 

Now, that's just funny right there. :D

[FearTheReaper]

I am of the firm belief that they were so shell shocked by the D&B fiasco, that they went crazy with the contracts to Vanek(they didn't have to match despite everyone saying so), Pominville, Connolly, Hecht and Gaustad.

 

I agree with this. Pominville's contract is all the proof you need. Did he really have enough leverage to merit a NTC as well. He is going to handcuff this team to mediority for a long time if he doesn't return to form.

 

It is funny, because even when Pominville was "good",(2006 to 2008) i didn't like him. I always knew he wasn't all that great, and he wouldn't sustain his early career suscess.