If I could I would

[inkman]

1. I don't see any good reason to bring Mair back

2. If Gaustad's role is to play strictly on 4th line for 10 to 13 minutes a game I'm ok with that.

3. Trade both Montador and Rivet at the deadline, if you have buyers.

According to nhlnumbers.com, both have another year, so you can almost guarantee Rivet and Montador will be here for at least the rest of this year and possibly next. Unfortnately, Lydman or Tallinder will most likely be moved. Hopefully Weber will be in the mix next year but right now they are 8 deep before any deadline moves.

 

I'd love the top 6 to be

 

Myers-Tallinder

Sekera-Weber

Butler-(trade/FA) -as long as this player is a vet defenseman with some offense and some grit (I know I'm dreaming)

 

Mair, Grier and Ellis are UFA's at the end of the season, and I have no affinity for any of them. I would like the Sabres to find adequate replacements, I'm guessing at least one of them will be re-signed.

[Sabre Dance]

I'm in Delaware, Delaware What the hell is there to do in Delaware?

 

You could visit the nation's lowest Highest Point (located on Ebright Road, near the Pennsylvania state line. Ebright Road is north of Namaans Road, east of route 202.). Just 447 feet above sea level. You're welcome.:D

[tom webster]

1. I don't see any good reason to bring Mair back

2. If Gaustad's role is to play strictly on 4th line for 10 to 13 minutes (less in the playoffs) a game I'm ok with that.

3. Trade both Montador and Rivet at the deadline, if you have buyers.

 

 

Gaustad plays a bigger role then that as penalty killer, face off specialist and eventual captain. Grier plays a vital role as penalty killer and veteran presence upfront.Kaletta shows promise as third line winger and penalty killer.

 

Rivet, Mair, Ellis, Montador are interchangeable or as Ink likes to say JAG. You need roster fillers for third and fourth line and injury replacements who know that once the playoffs come, there time could be limited. Since he is this year's captain, Rivet will probably play more but the rest probably won't.

[TomSmith]

Gaustad plays a bigger role then that as penalty killer, face off specialist and eventual captain. Grier plays a vital role as penalty killer and veteran presence upfront.Kaletta shows promise as third line winger and penalty killer.

Yeah they've really done a sell job on Gaustad.

Faceoff specialist huh?

LOL

 

Is that what this team has been reduced to?

The 'future captain' is a faceoff specialist who does commercials as the 'face of the sabres'?

 

Believe me he ranks like 5th or 6th on this team as a penalty killer, and there's probably a few skill players they don't use that could do a better job. He's is nowhere near being a standout penalty killer, he's adequate at best, I really don't even think he knows how to block a shot.

 

They should teach him how to backcheck on odd man rushes, playing even strength, cleaning that up would help more that his penalty killing.

[tom webster]

Yeah they've really done a sell job on Gaustad.

Faceoff specialist huh?

LOL

 

Is that what this team has been reduced to?

The 'future captain' is a faceoff specialist who does commercials as the 'face of the sabres'?

 

Believe me he ranks like 5th or 6th on this team as a penalty killer, and there's probably a few skill players they don't use that could do a better job. He's is nowhere near being a standout penalty killer, he's adequate at best, I really don't even think he knows how to block a shot.

 

They should teach him how to backcheck on odd man rushes, playing even strength, cleaning that up would help more that his penalty killing.

 

Tell me which teams get more production out of their third/ fourth center. You are stuck in this fantasy sports world where a team is just a collection of the most talented players it can find. It doesn't work that way. Never really has, but especially in a salary cap world, teams are built around there top 6 forwards, top pair defense and goaltending. The rest of the guys are role players. The Sabres get more from their role players then most. The problem isn't the role players, its the fact that there skill players upfromt come up short against the "elite" teams. Of course it is somewhat offset when Miller is on his game.

[TomSmith]

Tell me which teams get more production out of their third/ fourth center. You are stuck in this fantasy sports world where a team is just a collection of the most talented players it can find. It doesn't work that way. Never really has, but especially in a salary cap world, teams are built around there top 6 forwards, top pair defense and goaltending. The rest of the guys are role players. The Sabres get more from their role players then most. The problem isn't the role players, its the fact that there skill players upfromt come up short against the "elite" teams. Of course it is somewhat offset when Miller is on his game.

Keeping parroting that stuff, it's has nothing to do with reality.

 

Here's a list of players that Pittsburgh took to the playoffs and the number of goals they score during the regular season.

 

malkin 35

crosby 33

sykora 25

kunitz 23

stall 22

guerin 21

fedotenko 16

satan 17

kennedy 15

cooke 10

dupuis 12

talbot 12

letang 10

[ThePebble19]

Yeah they've really done a sell job on Gaustad.

Faceoff specialist huh?

LOL

 

Is that what this team has been reduced to?

The 'future captain' is a faceoff specialist who does commercials as the 'face of the sabres'?

 

Believe me he ranks like 5th or 6th on this team as a penalty killer, and there's probably a few skill players they don't use that could do a better job. He's is nowhere near being a standout penalty killer, he's adequate at best, I really don't even think he knows how to block a shot.

 

They should teach him how to backcheck on odd man rushes, playing even strength, cleaning that up would help more that his penalty killing.

 

Not sure I get your argument here. Gaustad is by far the best faceoff man we have, and does a very good job on the Penalty Kill. Judging that he is on the ice the vast majority of PK time that we have, and that our PK is one of the best in the NHL, I would say that it pretty much puts to bed your argument that he is a mediocre PK man. He is not a first or second line center. He will never be that type of player. However, he is very good at what he does. Very good PK man, even better at faceoffs, and he is a gritty forward who creates traffic in front of the net.

[tom webster]

Keeping parroting that stuff, it's has nothing to do with reality.

 

 

I love how you ignore any questions that ask you to show any evidence to the contrary. Its a simple question, show me a team built your way. I'll even help, the Blackhawks are close, similiar to the Sabres of 05/06 and 06/07. Unfortunately, they won't be able to keep guys like Sharp next year. There is no other team that tries to win with three offensive lines.

[TomSmith]

Not sure I get your argument here. Gaustad is by far the best faceoff man we have, and does a very good job on the Penalty Kill. Judging that he is on the ice the vast majority of PK time that we have, and that our PK is one of the best in the NHL, I would say that it pretty much puts to bed your argument that he is a mediocre PK man. He is not a first or second line center. He will never be that type of player. However, he is very good at what he does. Very good PK man, even better at faceoffs, and he is a gritty forward who creates traffic in front of the net.

It puts nothing to bed, this team is not reliant on Guastad to lead any pentalty killing, they werw a good PK unit before they put him there.

 

He's good at faceoff?

Who said he wasn't.

The play doesn't end after they drop the puck and face it off.

This isn't like football where the field goal kicker trots out there to chip in an extra point.

You need to bring more to the ice than just taking faceoffs.

 

You need to know what to do on the backcheck and it would help if as a 3rd line center he could make a play.

He has a grand total of 7 assists on the season. It's almost hard to avoid 7 assists with the ice time he gets.

[tom webster]

Keeping parroting that stuff, it's has nothing to do with reality.

 

Here's a list of players that Pittsburgh took to the playoffs and the number of goals they score during the regular season.

 

malkin 35

crosby 33

sykora 25

kunitz 23

stall 22

guerin 21

fedotenko 16

satan 17

kennedy 15

cooke 10

dupuis 12

talbot 12

letang 10

 

And Guerin and Koonitz did that with other teams leaving 11 guys with double digit goals amd the Sabres will have that, or close. The problem, as I said, is that the top guys won't have 35 and 33.

[shrader]

I love how you ignore any questions that ask you to show any evidence to the contrary. Its a simple question, show me a team built your way. I'll even help, the Blackhawks are close, similiar to the Sabres of 05/06 and 06/07. Unfortunately, they won't be able to keep guys like Sharp next year. There is no other team that tries to win with three offensive lines.

 

And look at the starting point for the two teams you mentioned, Crosby-Malkin and Kane-Toews. Things are a hell of a lot easier when you are starting with those building blocks. Now take a look at how many teams today (hell, how many teams in history) can say they have a similar situation. It is beyond rare.

[TomSmith]

And Guerin and Koonitz did that with other teams leaving 11 guys with double digit goals amd the Sabres will have that, or close. The problem, as I said, is that the top guys won't have 35 and 33.

That's part of the problem, you don't operate on logic.

It doesn't matter who they scored the goals with.

When Pittsburgh went to the playoffs they were on the roster and that was the skill level it took to win a cup.

 

I suppose in your mind if Ovechkin was traded to the Sabres at the deadline, got injured and played only 1 regular season game where he scored a hat trick, he wouldn't be factored in as being any more than a 3 goal scorer because that's the number he scored with Buffalo.

 

I could see that making perfect sense to you.

 

This post of yours is the typical type of hockey opinion I read on these forums.

[Iron Crotch]

And look at the starting point for the two teams you mentioned, Crosby-Malkin and Kane-Toews. Things are a hell of a lot easier when you are starting with those building blocks. Now take a look at how many teams today (hell, how many teams in history) can say they have a similar situation. It is beyond rare.

 

Can't agree more. We have about $12 million per year (cap hit) tied up in Vanek and Pommer, and neither are even in the top-50 in NHL scoring. That is a killer IMHO. Vanek (13th highest paid player) has about the same cap hit as Joe Thornton!

 

The way I look at it, it is all about value. Yes, guys like Mair and Ellis and Montador are not great players. But, they're not paid to be great players. The guys who ARE paid to be great players need to produce.

[tom webster]

That's part of the problem, you don't operate on logic.

It doesn't matter who they scored the goals with.

When Pittsburgh went to the playoffs they were on the roster and that was the skill level it took to win a cup.

 

I suppose in your mind if Ovechkin was traded to the Sabres at the deadline, got injured and played only 1 regular season game where he scored a hat trick, he wouldn't be factored in as being any more than a 3 goal scorer because that's the number he scored with Buffalo.

 

I could see that making perfect sense to you.

 

 

I promised I wouldn't highjack the thread, but..

a) All 13 players did not participate in the same game in the playoffs. Guerin and Koonitz basically replaced Satan and Sykora(who was injured). Look at Pittsburgh scoring in the playoffs. It was basically Crosby, Malkin and Talbot.

b) I have advocated bringing in rentals to increase skill level, but still see a place for guys like Grier and Gaustad.

c) Buffalo's third and fourth line have comparable #'s with the Penguins 3rd and 4th liners. It is the top 2 that they don't match up with.

d) The Ovechkin analogy is ridiculous, but I'll play along. If he plays in the playoffs he is a factor, if he doesn't, he isn't it.

[TomSmith]

Can't agree more. We have about $12 million per year (cap hit) tied up in Vanek and Pommer, and neither are even in the top-50 in NHL scoring. That is a killer IMHO. Vanek (13th highest paid player) has about the same cap hit as Joe Thornton!

 

The way I look at it, it is all about value. Yes, guys like Mair and Ellis and Montador are not great players. But, they're not paid to be great players. The guys who ARE paid to be great players need to produce.

True only to an extent.

You replace Connolly Roy Pominville and Vanek with Crosby Makin and Stall and the Sabres still wouldn't win the cup.

What are you going to do make a line out of Goose Mair and Stall?

 

Buffalo isn't deep enough.

[ThePebble19]

I promised I wouldn't highjack the thread, but..

a) All 13 players did not participate in the same game in the playoffs. Guerin and Koonitz basically replaced Satan and Sykora(who was injured). Look at Pittsburgh scoring in the playoffs. It was basically Crosby, Malkin and Talbot.

b) I have advocated bringing in rentals to increase skill level, but still see a place for guys like Grier and Gaustad.

c) Buffalo's third and fourth line have comparable #'s with the Penguins 3rd and 4th liners. It is the top 2 that they don't match up with.

d) The Ovechkin analogy is ridiculous, but I'll play along. If he plays in the playoffs he is a factor, if he doesn't, he isn't it.

 

I'm pretty much starting to wonder about the relationship TomWebster has with TomSmith. Perhaps TomSmith is an alter-ego created by Webster to argue with himself? ;)

 

I don't really see that Gaustad-Kaleta-Grier are really the biggest problems on the team. I agree with TW that we get enough out them to warrant keeping them on the roster, but the top 6 are killers when they disappear. Combine the top six players' inability to score with the JAGs like Paetsch - Ellis - Mair, and the declining play of Kennedy as the season has gone on, and there is the handicap in our scoring.

[Mbossy]

True only to an extent.

You replace Connolly Roy Pominville and Vanek with Crosby Makin and Stall and the Sabres still wouldn't win the cup.

What are you going to do make a line out of Goose Mair and Stall?

 

Buffalo isn't deep enough.

 

Buffalo is deep, there's not enough cream on the top, IMO, and 75% of the team plays like a bunch of pussies.

[LabattBlue]

This post of yours is the typical type of hockey opinion I read on these forums.

It's this type of statement that makes you annoying. Why do you bother posting here when you are the expert and everyone else here is a dimwit? <_<

 

PS This is so great that I am adding it to my sig.(I cleaned up some punctuation and spelling mistakes) :lol:

[tom webster]

True only to an extent.

You replace Connolly Roy Pominville and Vanek with Crosby Makin and Stall and the Sabres still wouldn't win the cup.

What are you going to do make a line out of Goose Mair and Stall?

 

Buffalo isn't deep enough.

[/quote

 

This is the most ridiculous thing, in a plethora of ridiculous things, you have written. You make that trade and Buffalo competes for the President's Trophy and is the Cup favorite for 10 years.

[TomSmith]

I promised I wouldn't highjack the thread, but..

a) All 13 players did not participate in the same game in the playoffs. Guerin and Koonitz basically replaced Satan and Sykora(who was injured). Look at Pittsburgh scoring in the playoffs. It was basically Crosby, Malkin and Talbot.

b) I have advocated bringing in rentals to increase skill level, but still see a place for guys like Grier and Gaustad.

c) Buffalo's third and fourth line have comparable #'s with the Penguins 3rd and 4th liners. It is the top 2 that they don't match up with.

d) The Ovechkin analogy is ridiculous, but I'll play along. If he plays in the playoffs he is a factor, if he doesn't, he isn't it.

 

A) ALL of those players on that list played for Pittsburgh in the playoffs, I suppose next you're going to tell me they all weren't on the ice at one time. Satan played in 17 post season games Sykora 7.

So no they weren't basically replaced. 17 games cannot possibly be construed by anything think human being as just making an appearance.

 

C) The bolded part....holy f*ck, are you talking about the Pittsburgh team that won the cup? ...that's all I'll say...that's all it deserves

 

D) Yes that Ovechkin hypothetical is ridiculous, equally

ridiculous to your post, that was the intent, in case you didn't catch it.

[TomSmith]

True only to an extent.

You replace Connolly Roy Pominville and Vanek with Crosby Makin and Stall and the Sabres still wouldn't win the cup.

What are you going to do make a line out of Goose Mair and Stall?

 

Buffalo isn't deep enough.

[/quote

 

This is the most ridiculous thing, in a plethora of ridiculous things, you have written. You make that trade and Buffalo competes for the President's Trophy and is the Cup favorite for 10 years.

LOL with who from this roster that Buffalo has now?

 

Gooser passes it to Malkin back to Gooser, Gooser passes it to Mair, Mair lets it rip, HE SCOOOOOOOORES!

TOP SHELF WHERE MOMMA HIDES THE COOKIES!

LOL

THESE GUYS ARE GOOD SCAAAAARY GOOD!

OOOOOH NOW DO YOU BELIEVE?

NOW DO YOU BELIEVE?

 

I thought I seen it all until I ran across the slop that you come up with.

[Iron Crotch]

So, I'm having a good ol' time playing around on nhlnumbers.com today (instead of working like I should be) and I'm shocked to find out that Pommer is the third highest paid right winger in the game in terms of cap hit. Vanek is the 4th highest paid left winger. Oof.

 

Looking at some of the guys who make less than our "elite" players is painful. Example: Who would you rather have at right wing, Pommer or Corey Perry? They're paid almost exactly the same... Vanek makes more than twice what Zach Parise makes and they're only 1 year apart in age. Urgh.

[tom webster]

ame='tom webster' date='02 March 2010 - 03:22 PM' timestamp='1267561347' post='192673']

 

LOL with who from this roster that Buffalo has now?

 

Gooser passes it to Malkin back to Gooser, Gooser passes it to Mair, Mair lets it rip, HE SCOOOOOOOORES!

TOP SHELF WHERE MOMMA HIDES THE COOKIES!

LOL

THESE GUYS ARE GOOD SCARY GOOD!

 

I thought I see it all until I ran across this slop.

 

Look at the numbers, take away both teams top goal scorers, pro rate the Sabres and see the huge difference. Check out production from the third and fourth lines. Check out those playoff stats. How many goals did Pittsburgh get from guys that weren't there top 6? I'll give you a hint. Crosby, Malkin, Stall, Guerin, Fedotenko and Koonitz scored 47 goals. Talbot had 8. Everyone else totaled 10.

[LabattBlue]

You replace Connolly Roy Pominville and Vanek with Crosby Makin and Stall and the Sabres still wouldn't win the cup.

Somehow I missed this beauty of a post. Thanks for the afternoon humor. :lol: :lol:

[ThePebble19]

ame='tom webster' date='02 March 2010 - 03:22 PM' timestamp='1267561347' post='192673']

 

LOL with who from this roster that Buffalo has now?

 

Gooser passes it to Malkin back to Gooser, Gooser passes it to Mair, Mair lets it rip, HE SCOOOOOOOORES!

TOP SHELF WHERE MOMMA HIDES THE COOKIES!

LOL

THESE GUYS ARE GOOD SCAAAAARY GOOD!

OOOOOH NOW DO YOU BELIEVE?

NOW DO YOU BELIEVE?

 

I thought I see it all until I ran across this slop.

 

So, let me get this straight. Pretty much, the basis of your argument, is that there is not one valuable forward on this roster, am I correct? Because that is the vibe I am getting from your posts.