Are the Sabres that far off?

[inkman]

...and not someone targeting specific people based on the fact that they might not like their hockey opinions.

Your opinions are welcome, many posters share the same. The problem is the condescending, disparaging, self-rightous way with which you express them.

[tom webster]

Before you claim to have the facts, state what they are.

 

What is the league scoring for each year since the lockout and what pace is the league on this year.

 

I have no problem with you stating opinion but don't tell me that you have the facts without presenting them.

 

Telling me that last year only 2 teams scored over 270 goals is proof of nothing.

GUESS HOW MANY TEAMS SCORED OVER 270 in 2006-2007?

ANSWER: 2

NOW DOES IT LOOK LIKE YOU'VE EDUCATED ANYONE, LET ALONE ME, ON THE FACTS?

ANSWER: HELL NO

 

 

5 teams, Colorado, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Ottawa and Buffalo scored over 270 goals in 2006/2007 with Buffalo leading the with 308.

 

Last year the top 5 teams scored 295, 274, 272, 264 and 264.

 

If you want I can add up the whole league.

 

Do you want to apologize?

 

Here's a link

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetchKey=20072ALLAAAAll&sort=goals&viewName=goalsFor

 

Know the topic before you start lecturing me as if you do.

You stand corrected.

[TomSmith]

No comment Webster?

[shrader]

tw, your stats include the shootout win goals. They cloud the numbers a bit.

[tom webster]

No comment Webster?

 

 

I ###### up my comment. I am actually using goals awarded as a result of shoot out. Using your data base brings my point even better. Washington will be the first team in three years to approach 300 goals.

Add up all the teams if you are so bored. Look at the leading offensive teams the last three years. Educate yourself.

[tom webster]

tw, your stats include the shootout win goals. They cloud the numbers a bit.

 

I noticed that but as I said, eliminating those brings home the point even better.

[TomSmith]

I ###### up my comment. I am actually using goals awarded as a result of shoot out. Using your data base brings my point even better. Washington will be the first team in three years to approach 300 goals.

Add up all the teams if you are so bored. Look at the leading offensive teams the last three years. Educate yourself.

Educated myself on what?

Be clear on what you are saying.

 

Are you saying shootouts are something new?

Or are you saying that there are significantly more shootout goals distorting the total goals?

 

If you're making any of those claims then show the stats, otherwise you're just presenting more of your 'facts' and we know what happened the last time you claimed to have the fact and went off with your lecture.

[TomSmith]

I ###### up my comment. I am actually using goals awarded as a result of shoot out. Using your data base brings my point even better. Washington will be the first team in three years to approach 300 goals.

Add up all the teams if you are so bored. Look at the leading offensive teams the last three years. Educate yourself.

Wait a second, Washington is the 1st team in 3 years to approach 300 so you interpret that as scoring going DOWN?

 

LOL

 

They are cracking 300 so this in your mind demonstrates how much tighter the league is now?

That's a head scratcher, a heavy dose reverse logic for sure.

 

Tom do you know how many teams scored 300 in 2006-2007?

ANSWER: none, zero

So how was that an easier environment for Buffalo to score goals?

[korab rules]

I see that the guru whale is building toward his frenzied end. My only question for the mods is, when he gets kicked off this time, can you block not just the e-mail address that he uses to sign up with but the IP address as well? Would be nice to keep this phoenix from rising over and over and over again.

[tom webster]

Wait a second, Washington is the 1st team in 3 years to approach 300 so you interpret that as scoring going DOWN?

 

LOL

 

They are cracking 300 so this is your mind demonstrates how much tighter the league is now?

That's a head scratcher, a heavy dose reverse logic for sure.

 

Tom do you know how many teams scored 300 in 2006-2007?

ANSWER: none, zero

So how was that an easier environment for Buffalo to score goals?

 

 

The Sabres scored 298 goals that year if you the goals awarded for shoot out victories. The year after that, Ottawa led the league socring only 258 goals. I could add up all the teams goals to show how much total goal scoring is down but my guess is that you would try and turn that around as well.

The point about the Capitals is that they are a special bunch and no other team, not a team like Chicago or san Jose, loaded with offensive talent, score at anywhere near that pace the Sabres set in 06/07.

If you are watching games and don't think that the game is played different then the first year and a half or so after the lock out, than I don't know what else to say. Even the teams scoing the goals are scoring differently. Teams have adapted and scoring is moving back up after two low scoring years. The Sabres have adapted a little as well as illustrated by the goal totals of some of their role players.

[Stoner]

I see that the guru whale is building toward his frenzied end. My only question for the mods is, when he gets kicked off this time, can you block not just the e-mail address that he uses to sign up with but the IP address as well? Would be nice to keep this phoenix from rising over and over and over again.

 

Why would you want to ban this person? I don't get it.

[Stoner]

Your opinions are welcome, many posters share the same. The problem is the condescending, disparaging, self-rightous way with which you express them.

 

How is that a problem on a board full of such people? Again, I don't get it. We're like a little Amish community here, and as soon as some English drives down our road, we get our pitchforks ready. OK, I'm mixing my metaphors. We start churning out butter furiously.

[tom webster]

Why would you want to ban this person? I don't get it.

 

 

I'm not sure I understand either. We obviously don't agree but I haven't read anything yet that I would think deserves a ban.

[TomSmith]

The Sabres scored 298 goals that year if you the goals awarded for shoot out victories. The year after that, Ottawa led the league socring only 258 goals. I could add up all the teams goals to show how much total goal scoring is down but my guess is that you would try and turn that around as well.

The point about the Capitals is that they are a special bunch and no other team, not a team like Chicago or san Jose, loaded with offensive talent, score at anywhere near that pace the Sabres set in 06/07.

If you are watching games and don't think that the game is played different then the first year and a half or so after the lock out, than I don't know what else to say. Even the teams scoing the goals are scoring differently. Teams have adapted and scoring is moving back up after two low scoring years. The Sabres have adapted a little as well as illustrated by the goal totals of some of their role players.

Total goals is the valid stat and what I would expect to see is normal fluctuation after 2005-2006.

Better yet total goals scored by the other 29 teams should demonstrate that while Buffalo's scoring is down significantly, that's not so much the case for the rest of the league.

 

Goals being scored differently today?

Yeah that's cemented in hockey speak, and hockey speak is extremely popular with some fans.

It's an odd phenomenon, to say the least.

But goals are being scored the same way they have been in recent history.

 

Does it ever cross the minds of fans that all this rhetoric about these mysterious transformations in the game serve the purpose of the Sabres front office after having sh*t the bed by dismantling a potent offense?

 

This rhetoric isn't recent, it started shortly after the the EFC team was dismantled.

 

Just to demonstrate that I defy you or anyone else to find a thread during the 2006-2007 season discussing this changing NHL.

 

Although these fans want to make these claims about penalties in 2005, they didn't start eating up on any 'changing NHL' until AFTER the team was dismantled. Prior to that there was no mention of it.

Now why do you think that is?

 

I cannot count the number of time I hear these fans blurt this stuff out about those ECF teams being outmoded and their success was heavily based on the way the game was called in 2005-2006.

Only to realize how far their foot is in their mouth after they learn that 2005-2006 wasn't the Sabres highest scoring season after the lockout.

 

Then after that they're looking to twist it a little to make it fit the hockey speak.

 

In the end none of them will commit to saying when all this this supposedly took place.

 

All I witnessed was one penalty loaded season after the lockout without any abrupt changes to the game after that.

[tom webster]

Total goals is the valid stat and what I would expect to see is normal fluctuation after 2005-2006.

Better yet total goals scored by the other 29 teams should demonstrate that while Buffalo's scoring is down significantly, that's not so much the case for the rest of the league.

 

Goals being scored differently today?

Yeah that's cemented in hockey speak, and hockey speak is extremely popular with some fans.

It's an odd phenomenon, to say the least.

But goals are being scored the same way they have been in recent history.

 

Does it ever cross the minds of fans that all this rhetoric about these mysterious transformations in the game serve the purpose of the Sabres front office after having sh*t the bed by dismantling a potent offense?

 

This rhetoric isn't recent, it started shortly after the the EFC team was dismantled.

 

Just to demonstrate that I defy you or anyone else to find a thread during the 2006-2007 season discussing this changing NHL.

 

Although these fans want to make these claims about penalties in 2005, they didn't start eating up on any 'changing NHL' until AFTER the team was dismantled. Prior to that there was no mention of it.

Now why do you think that is?

 

 

So are you saying that scoring isn't down?

What would you expect normal fluctuation to be in total goals scored?

Someone who is better at the search function could definitely find threads complaining about the differences in the way the game was called back in 06/07.

[TomSmith]

So are you saying that scoring isn't down?

What would you expect normal fluctuation to be in total goals scored?

Someone who is better at the search function could definitely find threads complaining about the differences in the way the game was called back in 06/07.

See now you are doing exactly what I expected.

 

No one argues that there was a load of penalties in 2005-2006.

The issue isn't the way the game was called.

They are claiming the game is played differently.

 

Show me a thread where they claim that goals are being scored differently.

Show me that in 06/07.

 

Show me one thread with fans saying....this team won't hack in in today's NHL we need to get bigger players who crash the net, this lineup won't work in today's NHL.

 

LOL

 

Nope all they were talking about was winning the cup with that team.

 

That stuff was initiated directly by the Sabres on their broadcasts only AFTER they lost all those free agents.

 

BUT not a single peep beforehand by them or their fans.

[tom webster]

See now you are doing exactly what I expected.

 

No one argues that there was a load of penalties in 2005-2006.

The issue isn't the way the game was called.

They are claiming the game is played differently.

 

Show me a thread where they claim that goals are being scored differently.

Show me that in 06/07.

 

Show me one thread with fans saying....this team won't hack in in today's NHL we need to get bigger players who crash the net, this lineup won't work in today's NHL.

 

LOL

 

Nope all they were talking about was winning the cup with that team.

 

That stuff was initiated directly by the Sabres on their broadcasts only AFTER they lost all those free agents.

 

BUT not a single peep beforehand by them or their fans.

 

 

Why don't you answer the questions.

1) Is scoring down more then a "normal" fluctuation?

2) What is a normal fluctuation?

 

I know that a lot of what the team says is self serving. There are probably people on this board laughing that you are lecturing me about that. Whatever. The point is that scoring has been down significantly since the first years after the lockout. You answer the above questions and I will decide if it is worth my time to show you.

 

By the way, its not all about size. Its about a willingness to go into the high traffic areas. There are plenty of smaller players who excell at this.

[inkman]

By the way, its not all about size.

...but it helps!!! :beer:

[tom webster]

...but it helps!!! :beer:

 

 

I was going to lay even money that you would catch that...

[TomSmith]

Why don't you answer the questions.

1) Is scoring down more then a "normal" fluctuation?

2) What is a normal fluctuation?

 

I know that a lot of what the team says is self serving. There are probably people on this board laughing that you are lecturing me about that. Whatever. The point is that scoring has been down significantly since the first years after the lockout. You answer the above questions and I will decide if it is worth my time to show you.

 

By the way, its not all about size. Its about a willingness to go into the high traffic areas. There are plenty of smaller players who excell at this.

Oh now it's the first years after the lockout!

 

I maintain that the major factor was penalties in ONE season 2005-2006, not some garbage about teams making epic changes in the way the game is played.

 

Your 'stats' attacking my post didn't hold up too well so now it looks like you want to make an adjustment.

 

Can you tell me now when this thing you describe took place?

 

As far as a definition of normal fluxuation I expect to see a significant drop after 2005-2006 mainly based on penalty calls, and far smaller fluxuations afterwards.

 

Furthermore I expect to see the drop off in scoring by the Sabres to out of line with the 29 other teams.

 

This is self fulfilling for the Sabres, they lost like 53 goals in one season, that is not a league thing that's a Sabres thing.

[inkman]

Oh now it's the first years after the lockout!

 

I maintain that the major factor was penalties in ONE season 2005-2006, not some garbage about teams making epic changes in the way the game is played.

 

Your 'stats' attacking my post didn't hold up too well so now it looks like you want to make an adjustment.

 

Can you tell me how when this thing you describe took place?

You are in serious need of a bong hit...

[Two or less]

And, other than Pronger and Brind'Amour, how exactly are you quantifying that toughness? As for Orpik, first I think he's overated, second I think Lydman is his equal.

 

Tom, i almost never disagree with your posts, except that huge Tampa Bay argument we had last year, but, Lydman better then Orpik? There is just no way. I won't claim i watch the Pens often because i don't, i find their play by play guys annoying so i stay away from their telecasts, but, when they play a big games, even a non versus game, it's hard to stay away, and Orpik almost always shines in big games. You can notice him. He logs big time minutes against top lines and penalty killing, and he's a very good hitter. He clears the crease for M.A. Fluery very well. Orpik is the best d-men Pittsburgh had the last 2-seasons. Lydman can't handle the responsibilities that Orpik has.

[shrader]

Someone who is better at the search function could definitely find threads complaining about the differences in the way the game was called back in 06/07.

 

Actually, no they can't. We had that board crash at one point where a lot of the old posts were lost. Anyway, I can say for a fact that the refusal to call obstruction has been something I've been all over since late in the 2005-2006 season or early 2006-2007. Then of course there's the obvious change in the rules that happens each year come playoff time, but that's another story.

[TomSmith]

You are in serious need of a bong hit...

Go ask Bill Hoppe if he sees the Sabres naked in the locker room that's more your speed.

[TomSmith]

Actually, no they can't. We had that board crash at one point where a lot of the old posts were lost. Anyway, I can say for a fact that the refusal to call obstruction has been something I've been all over since late in the 2005-2006 season or early 2006-2007. Then of course there's the obvious change in the rules that happens each year come playoff time, but that's another story.

Again we aren't talking about penalties.

I've stated many times that scoring in 2005-2006 was effected by penalty calls.

That was never in question.

 

We're talking about the nature of the game changing and about fans claiming that the type of team the Sabres had in 2005-2007 not being suited for 'today's game'.

 

Show me a post from any forum, doesn't have to be this one where someone makes a claim like was made in this thread.

Show me someone in 06/07 saying....this thing isn't going to work in today's game, you can't have 3 scoring lines

 

LOL, show me someone saying that we can't have 3 scoring lines.

 

IT DOESN'T EXIST.