LabattBlue Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 Butler has been downright awful at times this season, but I don't believe that Lindy has benched him for a single game. Is it possible that his psyche is on the fragile side and Lindy doesn't want to make a bad situation worst by sending him to the pressbox? If Lindy can see that Lydman and Montador needed a benching, I have to believe he can also see that Butler needs a little of the same treatment.
end the curse Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 Fragile? Well, that's how he plays, too. Bench his ass, he's killing us.
R_Dudley Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 That's a good question. With the way Lindy handles this overall with the team and some of the other untouchables as has been previously noted it is really hard to tell. My opinion is more along the lines he feels he is a young player and needs to learn/develop his game and the only way to do that is to play him through his mistakes till he's had enough experience/time to have honed his game. As I recall their is a general philosphy that D-man typically do not come into their own until at least 3+ years of NHL quality experience.
deluca67 Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 Butler has been downright awful at times this season, but I don't believe that Lindy has benched him for a single game. Is it possible that his psyche is on the fragile side and Lindy doesn't want to make a bad situation worst by sending him to the pressbox? If Lindy can see that Lydman and Montador needed a benching, I have to believe he can also see that Butler needs a little of the same treatment. I think the kid has done well considering he has to carry Rivet most nights. I would like to see Butler paired with someone else. The only option being is splitting Tallinder and Myers which is a bad idea. Putting Butler with Lydman or Montador would only make things worse. Here's to hoping the Sabes bring in a top four to play with Butler so Rivet can drop to the the 5th slot which is where he belongs at this stage of his career.
LabattBlue Posted February 2, 2010 Author Report Posted February 2, 2010 I think the kid has done well considering he has to carry Rivet most nights. I would like to see Butler paired with someone else. The only option being is splitting Tallinder and Myers which is a bad idea. Putting Butler with Lydman or Montador would only make things worse. Here's to hoping the Sabes bring in a top four to play with Butler so Rivet can drop to the the 5th slot which is where he belongs at this stage of his career. I could swear that when Butler was hurt, that the pairing of Lydman-Rivet was not that noticeable(which is a good thing). The only question would be, is how would the pairing of Montador-Butler-Sekera-Paetsch(plug and play 3rd pairing) work out.
deluca67 Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 I could swear that when Butler was hurt, that the pairing of Lydman-Rivet was not that noticeable(which is a good thing). The only question would be, is how would the pairing of Montador-Butler-Sekera-Paetsch(plug and play 3rd pairing) work out. I wouldn't want to go into any playoff match-up with a second pairing of Lydman and Rivet.
tom webster Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 Butler has been downright awful at times this season, but I don't believe that Lindy has benched him for a single game. Is it possible that his psyche is on the fragile side and Lindy doesn't want to make a bad situation worst by sending him to the pressbox? If Lindy can see that Lydman and Montador needed a benching, I have to believe he can also see that Butler needs a little of the same treatment. My belief is that Lindy and the organization believe that Butler is a definite top 4 if not top 2 type defenseman and believe he needs to play to develop into that role. As far as Lindy's "untouchables' goes, any manager worth his salt will tell you that the notion that you treat all your employees the same is a myth. It is Ruff's job to know which players need to yell at and which players need coddling. I'll never forget talking to someone close to the Bills when Joe D got traded to Cleveland. He couldn't stand that Chuck Knox used him as a whipping boy to get his point across to other lineman. Knox knew that Joe D could handle the yelling, didn't understand that it was eating him up inside. I consider it one of the first lessons I learned in my professional career.
Sabretip Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 Butler has been downright awful at times this season, but I don't believe that Lindy has benched him for a single game. Is it possible that his psyche is on the fragile side and Lindy doesn't want to make a bad situation worst by sending him to the pressbox? If Lindy can see that Lydman and Montador needed a benching, I have to believe he can also see that Butler needs a little of the same treatment. That can be the only reason why Butler keeps sticking in the lineup - Ruff's too smart to not see the same shoddy plays every game that every single fan sees. The only clue seems to be in Ruff's past explanations when Myers has had mistakes in games - Ruff wants his young players to learn from their mistakes and not become gun-shy about "getting back on the horse". The Sabres are putting a lot of pressure on Butler and Myers to run their PP - which is frustrating from a fan's perspective because management's unwillingness to address the gaping hole on their roster for a PP quarterback / offensive defenseman is what's forced Butler and Myers into that role. Will those two become stars? Sure, but neither is ready to take on that responsibility right now, especially Butler. My hunch is that, based on what happened to Sekera, Ruff will stick with Butler for the rest of this season. We all remember how great Sekera was when he and Weber were recalled in the latter part of 2007-08 season - only to see Sekera slump terribly in 2008-09 as a regular. He still hasn't shown that kind of play since and we've seen Ruff's patience drop with mistakes by Sekera. Butler's in a similar situation IMO - he was great when recalled at the end of last season and paired with Rivet. He's slumped terribly this year - if he continues to show little development next year, I suspect Ruff will not coddle him any more than he did Sekera.
Sabretip Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 I could swear that when Butler was hurt, that the pairing of Lydman-Rivet was not that noticeable(which is a good thing). Agreed - they weren't great but they were much better than either the Rivet-Butler or Lydman-Montador pairing has been at any point this season. The only question would be, is how would the pairing of Montador-Butler-Sekera-Paetsch(plug and play 3rd pairing) work out. That's a scary question - unfortunately, my sense is that the only band-aid to come away with is to pair Butler and Sekera and sit Montador as the 7th / depth guy.
Sabretip Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 I wouldn't want to go into any playoff match-up with a second pairing of Lydman and Rivet. The simple truth of the matter is that, no matter what all of the statistics about team defense and goals against suggest, this current team is succeeding because of Miller, Myers and Tallinder. That trio has more than compensated for the sub-par play of the other 4 defensemen in the lineup at any point in the season. Going into any playoff matchup, the odds will be stacked against the Sabres because they'll have to rely on Miller to continue stonewalling better opponents and the Myers/Tallinder tandem to log heavy ice-time. That kind of recipe may work for one or two playoff rounds but not beyond.
Two or less Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 Weber went through a massive sophomore slump. Butler going through a major slump too and has not played like he did his rookie year at all. Wonder how Myers will do next season?
X. Benedict Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 I wouldn't want to go into any playoff match-up with a second pairing of Lydman and Rivet. They haven't been bad in their own zone at all really. They've been caught up-ice pinching.
LabattBlue Posted February 2, 2010 Author Report Posted February 2, 2010 My belief is that Lindy and the organization believe that Butler is a definite top 4 if not top 2 type defenseman and believe he needs to play to develop into that role. After 3 years of Division I college hockey, a 1/2 season in the AHL and a full season(between last year and this year) at the NHL level, I haven't seen anything to make me believe Butler is anything more than a 5-6 dman...maybe a borderline 2nd pairing guy. He has shown NOTHING to indicate he will ever be close to being a top pairing dman. I hope time will prove me wrong, but I just don't see it.
end the curse Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 Butler's biggest problem: No mean streak and lacks desire to win battles for the puck.
LabattBlue Posted February 2, 2010 Author Report Posted February 2, 2010 Weber went through a massive sophomore slump. Butler going through a major slump too and has not played like he did his rookie year at all. Wonder how Myers will do next season? Good question to ask especially for those tossing around "I wouldn't trade him for any player in the NHL", "Future Norris trophy winner" and "1st ballot Hall of Famer" in regards to Myers.
X. Benedict Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 The simple truth of the matter is that, no matter what all of the statistics about team defense and goals against suggest, this current team is succeeding because of Miller, Myers and Tallinder. That trio has more than compensated for the sub-par play of the other 4 defensemen in the lineup at any point in the season. Going into any playoff matchup, the odds will be stacked against the Sabres because they'll have to rely on Miller to continue stonewalling better opponents and the Myers/Tallinder tandem to log heavy ice-time. That kind of recipe may work for one or two playoff rounds but not beyond. I don't know....the ice time is pretty well distributed. Tallider-Myers usually get 22 to 23 minutes unless overtime. That's probably the lowest of most top pairs in the league. The team has stayed pretty healthy splitting it up.
tom webster Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 After 3 years of Division I college hockey, a 1/2 season in the AHL and a full season(between last year and this year) at the NHL level, I haven't seen anything to make me believe Butler is anything more than a 5-6 dman...maybe a borderline 2nd pairing guy. He has shown NOTHING to indicate he will ever be close to being a top pairing dman. I hope time will prove me wrong, but I just don't see it. Obviously they see it differently, what with him having the 2nd highest ice time on the team and playing on the top power play unit.
LabattBlue Posted February 3, 2010 Author Report Posted February 3, 2010 Obviously they see it differently, what with him having the 2nd highest ice time on the team and playing on the top power play unit. ...not to mention a team worst +/- of -12. Must be one of those misleading stats. ;)
tom webster Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 ...not to mention a team worst +/- of -12. Must be one of those misleading stats. ;) Actually, it is. What would the +/- numbers be if Roy and Vanek were scoring like they should be? Not to mention he was a -9 after something like 20 ganes after a rough 10 game stretch. I know Butler is going to be the kind of guy a lot of people don't like because of the way he plays but he will be a #3 d-man and a 2nd unit point man when he settles in and the finds a truw power play quaterback to go with Myers.
LabattBlue Posted February 3, 2010 Author Report Posted February 3, 2010 Actually, it is. What would the +/- numbers be if Roy and Vanek were scoring like they should be? Not to mention he was a -9 after something like 20 ganes after a rough 10 game stretch. I know Butler is going to be the kind of guy a lot of people don't like because of the way he plays but he will be a #3 d-man and a 2nd unit point man when he settles in and the finds a truw power play quaterback to go with Myers. If he learns to play defense at a higher level and stops handling the puck as if it was a hand grenade, I'd like him a lot more.....even if he is soft. ;)
deluca67 Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 They haven't been bad in their own zone at all really. They've been caught up-ice pinching. "Haven't been bad" sounds like settling. I want to see this team make some moves to help in a deep playoff run. I can live with Lydman and Rivet at the 5-6 spots at 12-14 minutes in the playoffs as long as Regier gets a solid #4 to play with Butler.
end the curse Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 Good question to ask especially for those tossing around "I wouldn't trade him for any player in the NHL", "Future Norris trophy winner" and "1st ballot Hall of Famer" in regards to Myers. My response: Next year the Hart.
Stoner Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 My response: Next year the Hart. The one Dudley gives out to his favorite Sabre?
Grinder42 Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 I agree completely.I think Butler and Montador have been awful the last 15 games. Butler, is not an aggressive player and has no ability to anticipate the play and is flat footed way too often. Montador, well has just been awful.....He is bringing Lydman down and the two are two much the same player. Perhaps Lindy needs to change the D pairings. Butler has been downright awful at times this season, but I don't believe that Lindy has benched him for a single game. Is it possible that his psyche is on the fragile side and Lindy doesn't want to make a bad situation worst by sending him to the pressbox? If Lindy can see that Lydman and Montador needed a benching, I have to believe he can also see that Butler needs a little of the same treatment.
SwampD Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 After 3 years of Division I college hockey, a 1/2 season in the AHL and a full season(between last year and this year) at the NHL level, I haven't seen anything to make me believe Butler is anything more than a 5-6 dman...maybe a borderline 2nd pairing guy. He has shown NOTHING to indicate he will ever be close to being a top pairing dman. I hope time will prove me wrong, but I just don't see it. Before he got hurt, I really felt that it was was Myers 1 and Butler 1A. I wonder if he is actually playing at 100%. The whole idea of a player being fragile seems kind of silly to me, though. They've all been playing too long with less than sensitive coaches since they were 6. I think they can handle it. Although the idea of him hugging Mr. Bobbles while crying himself to sleep does make me chuckle.
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