SabresFan526 Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 When you look at the deals again, I get Toronto is now better on the PP, much more physical with a big open ice hitter, and got much better in goaltending with Giguere. However, it looks like they gave up quite a bit of offense (relatively speaking, quite a bit of offense for them) by giving up Stajan, Hagman, and Blake. Goaltending has been a real problem in Toronto, and I think Giguere will settle that position down. Clearly the PK has been terrible and the PP has not been great and the Phaneuf move helps in both areas. But, who's going to score goals for the Leafs? Maybe not many teams will score on Toronto now, but you still have to score a few goals to win games. Kessel cannot be relied on to score 50 goals, especially if no one can dish him the puck. He doesn't have Savard, Lucic, or Wheeler playing with him in Toronto. I think the Leafs have given up too much offense and while they have solved some problems on the team, they have created a major problem up front with these trades. The only thing this really means is that Burke is not done dealing and he will be acquiring an offensive player or two sometime before the trade deadline, if not very soon. That's my opinion, though.
VansTheMans Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 Yup, the 1st Round Pick is not happening. ---------------------------------------------------------- The official trade is: Jason Blake, Toskala for JS Giguere. --------------------------------------------------------- Toronto landed a stud dman in desperate need of a change of scenery AND a quality goaltender in Giguere. And let's not forget: Giguere won a cup with Burke in Anaheim. So, TO sends 9 million in cap space to the Ducks, and the Ducks send back 6 million in cap space. As far as the Calgary deal...the Phaneuf trade worked for both teams: Calgary acquires some offense (which they desperately needed), and dumped a locker room cancer in Phaneuf. Phaneuf and the coach have gone back and forth all season. Toronto is EXTREMELY weak in offense right now though, but stocked at defense. Toronto will have its check book out come summer time for some offense I'm sure.
SabresBillsFan Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 Huge trade by Burke and now they have a solid young defenseman with Phaneuf. Yes it looks like they gave up alot but only short term this was a long term trade that will work out well for Toronto. I just can't believe that Calgary traded Phaneuf for a punch of mediocre players. Then Burke trades a mediocre goalie in Toskala and an aging Blake for a goalie that's getting way too much money in Giguere. But that's what toronto needed so it makes sense. These trades make Toronto alot tougher to play against for years to come. I have a feeling burke isn't done yet and will find some team to deal with to add some good young offensive talent. How the heck does Burke do this is beyond me. All these small players better keep their heads up now with Phaneuf in the division. I still think Buffalo needs to add a number one scorer. This team has lacked the last few years.
VansTheMans Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 Burke must also be hoping Atlanta trades Kovy at the deadline. Any team looking to land Ilya at the deadline may need to shred some salary space, and you bet your ass Burke will try to act as a middle man.
gregkash Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 I think the trades leave the leafs about even with where they were. Phaneuf isn't gonna change anything and JS Giguere while way more capable than Toskala hasn't been putting up better numbers than him this year. I believe they are ranked 42 and 47 for goalies respectively this year.
deluca67 Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 When you look at the deals again, I get Toronto is now better on the PP, much more physical with a big open ice hitter, and got much better in goaltending with Giguere. However, it looks like they gave up quite a bit of offense (relatively speaking, quite a bit of offense for them) by giving up Stajan, Hagman, and Blake. Goaltending has been a real problem in Toronto, and I think Giguere will settle that position down. Clearly the PK has been terrible and the PP has not been great and the Phaneuf move helps in both areas. But, who's going to score goals for the Leafs? Maybe not many teams will score on Toronto now, but you still have to score a few goals to win games. Kessel cannot be relied on to score 50 goals, especially if no one can dish him the puck. He doesn't have Savard, Lucic, or Wheeler playing with him in Toronto. I think the Leafs have given up too much offense and while they have solved some problems on the team, they have created a major problem up front with these trades. The only thing this really means is that Burke is not done dealing and he will be acquiring an offensive player or two sometime before the trade deadline, if not very soon. That's my opinion, though. I agree with this 100%. What we are seeing is just the beginning. Kessel and Phaneuf and pretty good blocks to build a foundation with. I can't wait to see how the Kaberle situation works out.
SabresBillsFan Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 Burke must also be hoping Atlanta trades Kovy at the deadline. Any team looking to land Ilya at the deadline may need to shred some salary space, and you bet your ass Burke will try to act as a middle man. Kovy is going to cost a team they said 4-5 key assets which is too much asking price in my opinion. It would be nice to see Darcy add some sort of offensive player to the top two lines without giving up too much! But that's wishful thinking. This team needs an all star forward in the worst way!
gregkash Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 to think Marleau could've been had last season for a 2nd round pick.
Hank Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 Difinately don't like Phaneuf coming to the division. Toronto definately seems to be on the right track with him and Kessel.
SabresBillsFan Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 Darcy needs to add some scoring this year and take a run at the cup. And I'm not talking about an overage vet!
Two or less Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 Very "sexy" moves by the Leafs but.... is it wise? Not sure. To me, it seems like some desperation moves by Burke. Of course on the outside it looks great because they land 2 big names and trade away a lot of role players. However, figure this... Leafs now have $22 million tied up in 5 defensmen for next season (Dion, Kaberle, Komisarek, Beauchemin and Finger) and $6 million for Giggy. Also, they have traded away 38% of their scoring. Who's going to score now in Toronto? Poni? Kessel all on his own?
Two or less Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 Darcy needs to add some scoring this year and take a run at the cup. And I'm not talking about an overage vet! I disagree. I think we need a veteran who can pop a few goals and do some dirty stuff and keep the locker room focused late in the year.
kingcongkorab Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 Darcy needs to add some scoring this year and take a run at the cup. And I'm not talking about an overage vet! I have been thinking a lot lately that the Sabres need to think about trading Vanek. I think we can get a decent return for him. A change of scenary may be good for his career. Just a thought.
Stoner Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 My sources tell me Phaneuf could be heading to Toronto. And Bucky's sources apparently tell him nothing good. Kind of an embarrassing column today for the Buckster. Have we officially begun the season of fabricated sports "journalism"?
Two or less Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 I have been thinking a lot lately that the Sabres need to think about trading Vanek. I think we can get a decent return for him. A change of scenary may be good for his career. Just a thought. What's wrong for his career in Buffalo?
Stoner Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 I have been thinking a lot lately that the Sabres need to think about trading Vanek. I think we can get a decent return for him. A change of scenary may be good for his career. Just a thought. You always have to think about it. Darcy should be anyway. Just as he should always be thinking about who would succeed Ruff should it become necessary. But Vanek's contract is going to be tough to trade, unless, as Darcy has said about trades in general, it involves another player with a big pricetag who also needs a change of scenery.
kingcongkorab Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 What's wrong for his career in Buffalo? I think in totality he has underperformed. I'm not Vanek hater but for what he is being payed I just don't see the results.
tasker48b Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 Looks to me like Burke is trying to follow the template that brought Anaheim success in 2007. Solid goaltending (perhaps Gustaffson develops ala Giguere). Top-tier defensemen - hopefully looking for Schenn & Phaneuf to play up to their potential. Add in Kaberle-Komisarek-Beauchemain and the Leafs of the making of good D-corps. Next step for Burke will be to upgrade the forward corps. Anaheim had a pretty good of top 5 forwards in their cup year (Penner, Getzlaf, Perry, McDonald, Selanned)and an awesome checking line (Paulson-Neidermayer-Moen). If some of the prospects up front the Leafs have (Kadri, the free agents from last year) develop or the team makes some noise in free agency there could be something there.
nfreeman Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 to think Marleau could've been had last season for a 2nd round pick. Link? I don't think this is correct. Very "sexy" moves by the Leafs but.... is it wise? Not sure. To me, it seems like some desperation moves by Burke. Of course on the outside it looks great because they land 2 big names and trade away a lot of role players. However, figure this... Leafs now have $22 million tied up in 5 defensmen for next season (Dion, Kaberle, Komisarek, Beauchemin and Finger) and $6 million for Giggy. Also, they have traded away 38% of their scoring. Who's going to score now in Toronto? Poni? Kessel all on his own? I agree that these moves are probably more sizzle than steak, but I don't think Burke was the desperate one. It was Sutter in Calgary who panicked and traded away a good young defenseman (who is overrated and overpaid, but still only 24 and quite talented) for a bunch of spare parts. I have a hard time believing Sutter couldn't have gotten more for Phaneuf. From Burke's perspective, he opportunistically swooped in to take an asset off of Calgary's hands when Sutter felt like he had to make a move for the sake of making a move. As for Giggy, it's far from clear that he's the answer in goal for the Leafs, but he's at least as good as Toskala, and only has one more year on his contract after this one. I'd say this was also a low-risk move by the Leafs with potentially a decent return. Good day for Burke and the Leafs (although not as good, I think, as the Toronto hype machine will play it up as), especially since they didn't have to give up a draft pick. It was a bozo move by Sutter not to insist on one in the Phaneuf deal. I disagree. I think we need a veteran who can pop a few goals and do some dirty stuff and keep the locker room focused late in the year. +1 I think in totality he has underperformed. I'm not Vanek hater but for what he is being payed I just don't see the results. I agree, but I also think it's way too early to give up on him.
deluca67 Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 Very "sexy" moves by the Leafs but.... is it wise? Not sure. To me, it seems like some desperation moves by Burke. Of course on the outside it looks great because they land 2 big names and trade away a lot of role players. However, figure this... Leafs now have $22 million tied up in 5 defensmen for next season (Dion, Kaberle, Komisarek, Beauchemin and Finger) and $6 million for Giggy. Also, they have traded away 38% of their scoring. Who's going to score now in Toronto? Poni? Kessel all on his own? That 38% scoring got them where? Dead last in the Conference. Burke moved some "potential" for a legit stud on the blueline. With the exception of Myers and Miller I couldn't name four Sabres I wouldn't trade for Phaneuf. How good of a tandem would Myers and Phanuef be? You're talking maybe the top pairing in the league at some point. Burke is a big time GM in a huge market with loads of assets at his disposal. He dumps Blake and the two remaining years at $4 Mil and has a decent goalie at $6 mill for only one more season. He picks up Phaneuf who is locked in till 2014 and dumps 2 UFA (Stajan and and Mayers) 1 RFA in White and Hagman who is set to make $6 mil over the next two seasons which is a bad contract for a 30 year old 20ish a year goal scorer. This a monster move for the Leafs. The kind of move many of us feared when Burke took over the Leafs.
carpandean Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 Burke moved some "potential" for a legit stud on the blueline. We'll see if a change of scenery does him some good, but I've been surprised by the largely positive view Flames fans seem to have about trading away Phaneuf. We all know that he was a stud, at least initially, but it seems that he has become a player with the label "overrated" given to him by those who watch him more often.
deluca67 Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 We'll see if a change of scenery does him some good, but I've been surprised by the largely positive view Flames fans seem to have about trading away Phaneuf. We all know that he was a stud, at least initially, but it seems that he has become a player with the label "overrated" given to him by those who watch him more often. Familiarity breeds contempt. People here hated Dave Andreychuk by the time he left. He went on to a great career. Just look at Sabre fan's opinions of Vanek recently.
BuffalOhio Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 Toronto just got a lot meaner. Not good for our boys. Damn.
wjag Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 Go away for a couple of hours and a MAJOR set of trades occurs in the division. I think Toronto won the day. They were probably dumping all those guys in the off season anyway. I say grand larceny occurred in Toronto.
SabresFan526 Posted January 31, 2010 Report Posted January 31, 2010 Interesting little factoid, not sure if everyone was aware of. It turns out Brent Sutter was Phaneuf's junior coach over at Red Deer during his entire junior career. And Darryl Sutter coveted Phaneuf so much he even tried to trade up to draft him, but ended up getting him at 9th. So, this guy has ties with the Sutter family that go way back. It's interesting that as he became a pro, the guy who basically developed his career into an NHL player, Brent Sutter, and the guy who drafted him, Darryl Sutter, were so quick to throw him away after knowing this guy for basically 10 years. Just kind of interesting. This seems more like a desperate move by the Sutters than anything else, and Toronto is the beneficiary of this. The odd thing in all of this is that I think Toronto actually reduced their cap number after shipping all those players out. Phaneuf is big ticket, but Sjostrom is cheap and Aulie won't count against the cap as he is an AHL player. The Flames take on more salary with Stajan, Mayers, White, and Hagman than they lose by shipping out Phaneuf. The Leafs also shed salary by sending Toskala and Blake to Anaheim and only getting Giguere in return. The Leafs have added two important players and ended up shedding salary. How is that even possible? Strange strange strange. This might look as bad as Grosek for Dumont and Gilmour. I'm not sure there will ever be a fleecing in that category, but nonetheless very odd.
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