Either sit Roy or trade him

[SabresFanInRochester]

To counter the basic argument, before I even begin, I know Roy contributes points, but shouldn't all top line centers? And it is a joke that he is considered top line. Connolly is by far a better play maker. Roy is the last Sabre to get sent to Ruff's dog house, and I cannot stand that. Bring Ennis up for a couple games, and let Roy get his head out of his ######. Unless he is shooting the puck, he is useless. In the defensive zone, he is inadequate at clearing the zone, and in the offensive zone, as soon as he touches the puck, you can assure yourself that the puck will be going the other way within a few seconds. He is only good for a couple of shots, and that's only if he doesn't drill it directly into someone's skates.

 

Okay, I definitely had to vent that. But, with my venting aside, I would ship him out for a "real" top line center in a heartbeat. I think that would greatly increase Vanek's output.

[Two or less]

All players goes through slumps. Sitting him won't solve anything. Our best option is he plays, scores and gets hot. It's common sense.

 

Tonight he was playing with Thomas Vanek and ADAM MAIR. COME ON! How many top lines would Mair play on in the league? That line was doomed from the start. Oh wait, give credit for Roy for scoring the ONLY GOAL OF THE GAME. The Mair goal was 100% Derek Roy.

 

I'm not pleased with his play either, but your post was stupid. Sorry.

[BuffaloFan32]

I know I don't post much on this board (despite visiting it everyday), but I have to agree with SabresFaninRochester. Roy is turnover prone and Connolly is way better. To be honest, I have been waiting for someone to bring this up for a long time. I would like to see him traded for a smarter center.

[billsrcursed]

Didn't he have the assist on our ONLY GOAL????

 

Sorry, but Roy is not at the top of the "Team Concern" list. I'd put him at like, 7 or 8 on that list.

[Calvin]

Didn't he have the assist on our ONLY GOAL????

 

Sorry, but Roy is not at the top of the "Team Concern" list. I'd put him at like, 7 or 8 on that list.

Agreed, we have issues on this team, and Roy is not up at the top of that list.

[Buffalo Wings]

I know I don't post much on this board (despite visiting it everyday), but I have to agree with SabresFaninRochester. Roy is turnover prone and Connolly is way better. To be honest, I have been waiting for someone to bring this up for a long time. I would like to see him traded for a smarter center.

We've come a long way, haven't we? Three years ago, we were all giddy over the RAV line while watching Connolly sit in the press box with some injury.

 

Trading Roy doesn't make a lot of sense. No, he hasn't put up a lot of points these days and Connolly is on a hot streak (points-wise), but I can remember seeing Roy's line control the play a number of times over the past few weeks. Lindy's put Stafford back on his line with Vanek, which seemed to work pretty well, though not score a lot. Give it time, he'll be back scoring and doing damage again.

[LabattBlue]

Trading Roy doesn't make a lot of sense.

I wouldn't trade him now, but it should be considered in the offseason. Let's see how the FAB 5 perform in the playoffs. They are 3 years older since the last time they were involved in the playoffs, lets see the maturity that I was hearing about before the season began.

[Mbossy]

He's alright. He'll get going, although I don't think he's that far off from an average season. I think he's hurt right now, Lindy hinted to it in the post game last night.

[SabresFanInRochester]

All players goes through slumps. Sitting him won't solve anything. Our best option is he plays, scores and gets hot. It's common sense.

 

Tonight he was playing with Thomas Vanek and ADAM MAIR. COME ON! How many top lines would Mair play on in the league? That line was doomed from the start. Oh wait, give credit for Roy for scoring the ONLY GOAL OF THE GAME. The Mair goal was 100% Derek Roy.

 

I'm not pleased with his play either, but your post was stupid. Sorry.

 

Hmmm, Stafford was a healthy scratch and he came back pretty strong. Sometimes benching someone can motivate them. Ruff just tried that with Montador and Lydman. Do you really think Paetsch is better than either of them? I would like to see Roy benched, because right now he is a head case.

 

Mair was rewarded for his strong play, as of late. Top line... I don't think he's played that well. Neither Roy or Vanek are puck possession guys. Roy tries to skate with it but coughs it up way to frequently. (Ever notice on the power play, if the opposing team pressures him, the puck WILL be out of the zone.) Vanek never holds the puck for more than 3 seconds... that's not his thing. So they needed someone to fight along the boards. I think there are better choices than Mair, but then you don't want to break up another line that is working.

 

Call the post stupid, but watch Roy's play, and not just the highlight film. He is not good. Subscribing to the theory that someone should be rewarded for getting on the score sheet, would result in Ennis being in every Sabres game -- he has one goal in one game, right? There's more to playing than an occasional goal.

 

And, I did give Roy credit, in my original post, for an occasional shot that works. He puts out decent points, but he is so frustrating to watch. It's almost Max syndrome. Throughout a game, Roy will contribute to 10x times as many blocked shots, errant passes, and give aways in the defensive zone, as he will in creating offense.

 

I want a talented center running that line. I would be thrilled with Connolly on the 2nd line, if we had a real center.

[R_Dudley]

He's alright. He'll get going, although I don't think he's that far off from an average season. I think he's hurt right now, Lindy hinted to it in the post game last night.

 

Well that would make sense because he has been the weakest on the puck that I think I have seen in awhile. I mean he is about Parise size and I would like to think he could play with a little more of that type of edge/fire.

 

The premise of this post, "to sit him" I do agree with especially if he is hurt. How could it hurt to bring up Ennis who played well in the AHL all star game and give him a little more NHL seasoning while he is hot so you can set him up to possibly be a welcome contributor to a long playoff run. This team could use any additional offense they can dig up.

[That Aud Smell]

I want a talented center running that line. I would be thrilled with Connolly on the 2nd line, if we had a real center.

this team doesn't have a true #1 line. likewise, it doesn't have a true #1 center. roy and connolly are like 1-A and 1-B, or maybe 2-A and 2-B. i'm not even convinced roy should be at center (remember when he skated on wing with captain intangible? good times), but, whatever, he's among our best options at this point.

 

like others have said, i don't see him as among the big issues that the team is having right now.

[SabresFanInRochester]

Well that would make sense because he has been the weakest on the puck that I think I have seen in awhile. I mean he is about Parise size and I would like to think he could play with a little more of that type of edge/fire.

 

The premise of this post, "to sit him" I do agree with especially if he is hurt. How could it hurt to bring up Ennis who played well in the AHL all star game and give him a little more NHL seasoning while he is hot so you can set him up to possibly be a welcome contributor to a long playoff run. This team could use any additional offense they can dig up.

 

Thank you for a reasonable post. I thought I was pointing out the obvious, but I was surprised by some of the responses. Roy's family must troll the boards here.

[nfreeman]

I'm not pleased with his play either, but your post was stupid. Sorry.

You can disagree all you like, but there is no reason to start throwing insults like "stupid" around. You've been here long enough to know better.

 

Sorry, but Roy is not at the top of the "Team Concern" list. I'd put him at like, 7 or 8 on that list.

It's fair to say that consistent scoring from the top 6 is in the top 2 issues this team will have to address if it wants to do anything in the playoffs. It's not fair to pin that all on Roy, so in that sense I agree that he's not at the top of the list of Sabres issues, but he and his fellow SGM Vanek have been the 2 forwards who have disappointed the most this year. (To be fair, Pommer belongs on that short list too, although he's been better lately.)

 

I wouldn't trade him now, but it should be considered in the offseason. Let's see how the FAB 5 perform in the playoffs. They are 3 years older since the last time they were involved in the playoffs, lets see the maturity that I was hearing about before the season began.

+1

 

Hmmm, Stafford was a healthy scratch and he came back pretty strong. Sometimes benching someone can motivate them. Ruff just tried that with Montador and Lydman. Do you really think Paetsch is better than either of them? I would like to see Roy benched, because right now he is a head case.

 

Mair was rewarded for his strong play, as of late. Top line... I don't think he's played that well. Neither Roy or Vanek are puck possession guys. Roy tries to skate with it but coughs it up way to frequently. (Ever notice on the power play, if the opposing team pressures him, the puck WILL be out of the zone.) Vanek never holds the puck for more than 3 seconds... that's not his thing. So they needed someone to fight along the boards. I think there are better choices than Mair, but then you don't want to break up another line that is working.

 

Call the post stupid, but watch Roy's play, and not just the highlight film. He is not good. Subscribing to the theory that someone should be rewarded for getting on the score sheet, would result in Ennis being in every Sabres game -- he has one goal in one game, right? There's more to playing than an occasional goal.

 

And, I did give Roy credit, in my original post, for an occasional shot that works. He puts out decent points, but he is so frustrating to watch. It's almost Max syndrome. Throughout a game, Roy will contribute to 10x times as many blocked shots, errant passes, and give aways in the defensive zone, as he will in creating offense.

 

I want a talented center running that line. I would be thrilled with Connolly on the 2nd line, if we had a real center.

I've criticized Roy as much as anyone, and I'd be fine healthy-scratching him to send him a message, but I don't think it would be wise to trade him now unless it was part of a package that somehow brought back a good #1 or #2 center who wasn't a rental -- which is highly unlikely. He's a decent-to-good player, reasonably productive and reasonably priced. He's also better on the backcheck than I think you give him credit for -- Lindy wouldn't give him as much PK time as he gets if that weren't the case.

 

He's not a consistent offensive threat or a leader and probably never will be -- and all those (like DeLuca) who thought the Sabres would be fine letting go of Briere because Roy was going to develop into a better player are pretty close to having been proven wrong. Of course, he's only 26 and could still be developing. But he's been pretty much the same player for the past 3 seasons, except for a not-insignificant dropoff in production this year, so it's hard to see him really stepping up.

[Stoner]

You can disagree all you like, but there is no reason to start throwing insults like "stupid" around. You've been here long enough to know better.

 

But obtuse is OK?

[inkman]

But obtuse is OK?

Depends...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuBHzJ5LrXE

[Stoner]

Depends...

 

 

LOL that dialogue sounds very familiar. I can't place it though.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Thank you for a reasonable post. I thought I was pointing out the obvious, but I was surprised by some of the responses. Roy's family must troll the boards here.

 

 

Yes, if people disagree they must be unreasonable.

 

Roy is a No. 2 center, is paid as such and has produced as such. I am not saying he is playing great right now, but comparing him to "real" to centers is apples to oranges. Those guys are Crosby, Thornton, Lecavalier, etc., and Roy is paid about half as much. He's not even paid as much as Connolly. Again, not saying he is playing great, but if you can find a guy at his price locked up for as long as he is and you can get him in a trade, please, make the deal.

 

Roy is a GOOD PLAYER ...not GREAT, but GOOD. Which also means has has his flaws. He is the perfect #2 center IF you have a good #1 who occupies the other team's top checking line (is Connolly that guy? This month he has been but ...) and a good #3 who can handle other teams' top lines (Which the Sabres do not really have either because Gaustad is too slow and Kennedy is not quite ready yet to do it full time). Roy is going to struggle at times against top checking lines (which he faces too often because they have to use Connolly-Pommer-Hecht against other teams' top lines a lot) and he'll also struggle when matched against other top lines because he is not built to defend the "real" top centers you are talking about. As Smell says, he might be best off on the wing, but the Sabres do not have the horses up the middle for that right now. So if they can't move him to wing, how can they just bench him and create another hole in the linuep?

 

If they could deal him and get a "real" top center, I am pretty sure no one defending him here would complain. But they would have to throw something pretty big into the deal and pay that guy $7 million at least ...

 

He needs to play better, no doubt. If they benched or traded every guy who wasn't at his best all the time it would be chaos. Sometimes you have to ride these things out ... Connolly SUCKED for a solid month before getting hot for the last month ... it happens. It's part of the reason they are not paid like those "real" top centers.

[Eleven]

LOL that dialogue sounds very familiar. I can't place it though.

 

Shawshank Redemption is my guess, without playing the video.

[LabattBlue]

It's part of the reason they are not paid like those "real" top centers.

...so if a player only makes 3 mil a year instead of 7 mil, you can't ask for a solid effort most games? It's one thing if you are playing hard, getting chances and the points just aren't coming. It's a whole different story when a player is just SUCKING for weeks on end.

[Patty16]

To counter the basic argument, before I even begin, I know Roy contributes points, but shouldn't all top line centers? And it is a joke that he is considered top line. Connolly is by far a better play maker. Roy is the last Sabre to get sent to Ruff's dog house, and I cannot stand that. Bring Ennis up for a couple games, and let Roy get his head out of his ######. Unless he is shooting the puck, he is useless. In the defensive zone, he is inadequate at clearing the zone, and in the offensive zone, as soon as he touches the puck, you can assure yourself that the puck will be going the other way within a few seconds. He is only good for a couple of shots, and that's only if he doesn't drill it directly into someone's skates.

 

Okay, I definitely had to vent that. But, with my venting aside, I would ship him out for a "real" top line center in a heartbeat. I think that would greatly increase Vanek's output.

 

And what team is going to give you a top line center, a real one, for derek roy without including Vanek.

 

Let me vent for a moment. The notion on this board that you can just go out and get a "real" or "true" top center shows a complete lack of understanding of the NHL. How many top centers get traded? They are hard to come by and teams dont let them go. Joe thorton is the only one that comes to mind right now...im sure theres others.

BUt who do you suppose we get?

Roy usually puts out 70-80 points a year. Not bad.

[nfreeman]

But obtuse is OK?

Well, I think that "stupid" is more offensive and insulting (and juvenile) than "obtuse." I also think that when poster habitually takes extreme positions and makes inflammatory posts, while willfully ignoring obvious and material facts (the definition of obtuse argument), this justifies a stronger response as compared to typical hockey talk posts.

 

Or, if you prefer: don't start none, won't be none.

[rbochan]

He needs to learn to stay on his skates. It's getting ridiculous.

[BetweenThePipes00]

...so if a player only makes 3 mil a year instead of 7 mil, you can't ask for a solid effort most games? It's one thing if you are playing hard, getting chances and the points just aren't coming. It's a whole different story when a player is just SUCKING for weeks on end.

 

First of all, I don't think he has been as bad as you or other orginal poster make him out to be. But as I said, he DOES have to play better, I wasn't defending his play of late ... the point is that it's not so easy as "TRADE HIM NOW!" and even Roy in a slump is better than just scratching him and creating another hole in the lineup. We all agree the team could use a little more pop as it is, and now you want to take one of their best offensive players out? He also plays a pretty big role on the PK, which has been lights-out of late. If he was a minus-15 or something it might be different, but until he had a bad week in California he was a plus player.

 

Again, show me a deal that makes sense and I would be on board with dealing him. Just saying he sucks and he should be benched if he can't be traded for a "real" top center isn't really a good suggestion, IMO.

[LabattBlue]

First of all, I don't think he has been as bad as you or other orginal poster make him out to be. But as I said, he DOES have to play better, I wasn't defending his play of late ... the point is that it's not so easy as "TRADE HIM NOW!" and even Roy in a slump is better than just scratching him and creating another hole in the lineup. We all agree the team could use a little more pop as it is, and now you want to take one of their best offensive players out? He also plays a pretty big role on the PK, which has been lights-out of late. If he was a minus-15 or something it might be different, but until he had a bad week in California he was a plus player.

 

Again, show me a deal that makes sense and I would be on board with dealing him. Just saying he sucks and he should be benched if he can't be traded for a "real" top center isn't really a good suggestion, IMO.

I don't want him traded now. I have previously stated that it should be seriously considered in the offseason.

[SabresFanInRochester]

Yes, if people disagree they must be unreasonable.

 

Roy is a No. 2 center, is paid as such and has produced as such. I am not saying he is playing great right now, but comparing him to "real" to centers is apples to oranges. Those guys are Crosby, Thornton, Lecavalier, etc., and Roy is paid about half as much. He's not even paid as much as Connolly. Again, not saying he is playing great, but if you can find a guy at his price locked up for as long as he is and you can get him in a trade, please, make the deal.

 

Roy is a GOOD PLAYER ...not GREAT, but GOOD. Which also means has has his flaws. He is the perfect #2 center IF you have a good #1 who occupies the other team's top checking line (is Connolly that guy? This month he has been but ...) and a good #3 who can handle other teams' top lines (Which the Sabres do not really have either because Gaustad is too slow and Kennedy is not quite ready yet to do it full time). Roy is going to struggle at times against top checking lines (which he faces too often because they have to use Connolly-Pommer-Hecht against other teams' top lines a lot) and he'll also struggle when matched against other top lines because he is not built to defend the "real" top centers you are talking about. As Smell says, he might be best off on the wing, but the Sabres do not have the horses up the middle for that right now. So if they can't move him to wing, how can they just bench him and create another hole in the linuep?

 

If they could deal him and get a "real" top center, I am pretty sure no one defending him here would complain. But they would have to throw something pretty big into the deal and pay that guy $7 million at least ...

 

He needs to play better, no doubt. If they benched or traded every guy who wasn't at his best all the time it would be chaos. Sometimes you have to ride these things out ... Connolly SUCKED for a solid month before getting hot for the last month ... it happens. It's part of the reason they are not paid like those "real" top centers.

"Unreasonable" applies to the rose colored glasses claiming that Roy is playing fine, and statements that he is hardly the problem. I was venting frustration in benching him, and quite surprised that some people were adamant that he was playing good hockey; after all, he contributed on the only goal! I was unaware that he was injured, so I apologize for my lack of knowing all the facts, but that adds even more fuel to the fire. Vanek was injured and he was benched because Lindy did not want someone give partial effort. That's all Roy has been giving.

 

When Roy's contract was negotiated, I don't think it was too bad. I am not basing that on fact, but generalizations that contracts go up over time, and so if someone can pull the figures and show his contract was half compared to top line centers when it was signed, I would accept being wrong. As poor as I think Roy has been playing, do you really think his next contract is for the same $$$, or do you think he gets a hefty pay raise?

 

I think you made some very valid points, and I like your observations. I think Roy has some value, and whereas he will not be an even swap for a top line center, he lessens the blow of what else you need to ship. I agree on almost your entire post, except for the benching, which is what I would like to see. Ruff does not want to change the lineup when the team is winning, which I am fine with. When the team is losing, and players are not producing, it seems like everyone has to answer to Ruff with a benching. Vanek, Stafford, Hecht, Lydman, Sekera, Butler, Macarthur, Mair, Kennedy, and Kaleta have all been benched, and perhaps not called out, but maybe not inserted into the lineup immediately when coming back from an injury. Why is Roy exempt from this treatment?