[OT] State of the Union Address

[Eleven]

Full disclosure: I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican; I am a Libertarian who thinks both major parties stink to high heaven and are morally & ethically bankrupt. That said, I found the SOTU address to be lacking in inspiration and content. Much like the Campaigner-in-Chief pre-election & throughout his first year in office, the soaring rhetoric, empty promises, and platitudes rang hollow again to me last night. Actions speak louder than words & this President is a great speaker, but not a leader and a governor who inspires. I for one am sick & tired of the lies & empty promises...i.e., full transparency via C-Span, no lobbyists, no earmarks, ending politics as usual and then doing backroom deals & buying Senate votes. Last night could have been an opp'y for Nobama to come clean & take accountability for these missteps - it was almost like he forgot he was President for a year.

 

You were dealt a bad hand when you inherited the White House, we get it; he doesn't miss a chance to remind us, including last night. Stop playing the blame game - it's your Presidency now. He was confrontational and defiant to a fault- he missed a chance to take ownership of mistakes made & opportunities lost, and he whiffed. All this does is create more division & contention. He also managed to diss the Supreme Court - not smart and a shameful breach of etiquette. He mentioned nothing about tort reform or terrorism - bad idea. Lots of condescending finger-pointing & lecturing - not good.

 

Bottom line: I don't he helped himself. Once again he was so full of contradictions. He claims to want to work together to get things done but then he rejects any and all Republican proposals for healthcare reform. I want him to succeed but to me last night was a chance to regain credibility and he failed. Just stop talking & get the job done. I hate to say this but if Nobama does not move to the center with common-sense solutions (like Clinton) not entirely driven by strident ideology, he will go down as the worst President since Jimmy Carter....mark my words.

 

He cannot go down as the worst President since Jimmy Carter; that award was taken recently, and it won't easily be prized out of GWB's cold, blue-blooded hands.

 

As for the rest of it, I think you're unnecessarily pessimistic. Give him a bit of a chance. (No, I'm not a huge fan; read my post above. But I think it's way too early to be so down on him.)

[deluca67]

So DeLuca didn't write "gay" or "homosexual," but the filter still removed it. Most of us know him well enough to know he didn't use an offensive term, but what else would others be forced to conclude?

It was "homosexual." Blocked it the first time and let the second pass. Maybe ALF is conflicted :rolleyes:

[cdexchange]

It was "homosexual." Blocked it the first time and let the second pass. Maybe ALF is conflicted :rolleyes:

 

 

Maybe he's conflicted about lots of things. Like many people who shout the loudest about the evils of homosexuality and would seek to limit their rights, perhaps ALF himself is a little light in the loafers. :lol:

 

Wait, is "light in the loafers" an offensive comment to homosexuals? Do we have any openly gay posters who can comment? I'm guessing we probably don't. It just occurred to me that there are probably way fewer homosexual hockey fans (as a percentage) than fans of the other three major sports. I have no idea why, but that does seem like it's probably true.

 

I should just probably shut up now before ALF starts singing "Daisy Bell" and fires me out an airlock. :unsure:

[SarasotaSabre]

Barely. My point was given the severity of the issue at hand, he glossed over it and did not seem to make it enough of a priority. I hope everyone recognizes we have gotten hit 3 times under Obama's watch - Arkansas, Ft. Hood, & the attempted underwear bomber. What I wanted him to say @ the SOTU was that we were no longer giving these terrorists legal rights (i.e., Miranda) in our criminal justice system but these maniacs would be tried before a military tribunal as enemy combatants.

 

I don't want to be a doomsdayer but I am not alone in my belief that because of Barry's weak stance on terrorism, we will get hit again - not if, but when.

 

He spoke about terrorism.

[SarasotaSabre]

Obviously we won't agree on Carter vs. Obama. While GWB surely had his faults, Carter never had to deal with a 9/11 and I stand by my opinion. Even today Carter continues to embarrass himself, i.e., his stance on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

 

As for me being pessimistic. I call it pragmatism. I was factual, cited examples, and refrained from gutter language & slander. I pointed out Barry's track record & rhetoric over his first year in office, and made the observation that he had a chance to rally everyone behind him with a different tone & messaging at the SOTU, which did not happen. The air of condescension & lecturing was typical Obama & fell flat in my book - pretty much more of the same that we have seen over the last year.

 

 

He cannot go down as the worst President since Jimmy Carter; that award was taken recently, and it won't easily be prized out of GWB's cold, blue-blooded hands.

 

As for the rest of it, I think you're unnecessarily pessimistic. Give him a bit of a chance. (No, I'm not a huge fan; read my post above. But I think it's way too early to be so down on him.)

[SwampD]

Obviously we won't agree on Carter vs. Obama. While GWB surely had his faults, Carter never had to deal with a 9/11 and I stand by my opinion. Even today Carter continues to embarrass himself, i.e., his stance on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

 

As for me being pessimistic. I call it pragmatism. I was factual, cited examples, and refrained from gutter language & slander. I pointed out Barry's track record & rhetoric over his first year in office, and made the observation that he had a chance to rally everyone behind him with a different tone & messaging at the SOTU, which did not happen. The air of condescension & lecturing was typical Obama & fell flat in my book - pretty much more of the same that we have seen over the last year.

Not unlike your posts on the matter. "Barry", "Nobama", if you were only going to see what you wanted to see then why watch. You already had your mind made up.

[SarasotaSabre]

If you took the time to thoroughly read my posts, I stated that I want Barack Hussein Obama (there, are you happy?) to succeed. I watched the SOTU objectively, took mental notes, and formed several opinions; my main takeaway (as I already stated) was that the rhetoric does not match the reality. Your statement that I was going to see what I wanted to see is grossly off the mark; I also stated I wanted to see more from Obama and I was disappointed - and how do you know my mindset before the SOTU? You don't know me from Adam and I went in with an open mind, so back off on your accusation that I already had my mind made up.

 

Your reply below is typical from the Left; if someone spells a well-thought out opinion but is counter to yours, you come back with baseless rebuttals.

 

Not unlike your posts on the matter. "Barry", "Nobama", if you were only going to see what you wanted to see then why watch. You already had your mind made up.

[nfreeman]

What I wanted him to say @ the SOTU was that we were no longer giving these terrorists legal rights (i.e., Miranda) in our criminal justice system but these maniacs would be tried before a military tribunal as enemy combatants.

 

I don't want to be a doomsdayer but I am not alone in my belief that because of Barry's weak stance on terrorism, we will get hit again - not if, but when.

I think there is plenty of room for reasonable people to disagree on many of the issues, but I don't see any defense for the decision to put these guys into the criminal justice system. It is an idiotic move with zero upside and lots of downside.

 

And you are absolutely not alone in the belief that this stance will contribute to the likelihood of future attacks, although the weak stance is unfortunately not the only reason.

[Eleven]

Not unlike your posts on the matter. "Barry", "Nobama", if you were only going to see what you wanted to see then why watch. You already had your mind made up.

 

You've got to admit, Swamp's right. If you're calling him "Nobama" and "Barry," you probably aren't giving him much of a chance. Cf. the folks who were calling GWB "Shrub" as soon as he took office.

[SarasotaSabre]

I retract the name calling of Barack Hussein Obama. I agree it detracts from my credibility in trying to form an educated opinion. Also I think it reduces me to other name callers of GWB (i.e., blue blood earlier in this thread) and the Republican Party in general, i.e., racist, homophobic, obstructionist, blah, blah, blah.

 

I do want to give BHO more than a chance; I want him to succeed for the good of our country. He is a great speaker with charisma but I think he is capable of so much more, but as a rigid ideologue I am doubtful. Actions speak louder than words.

 

 

You've got to admit, Swamp's right. If you're calling him "Nobama" and "Barry," you probably aren't giving him much of a chance. Cf. the folks who were calling GWB "Shrub" as soon as he took office.

[Patty16]

Full disclosure: I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican; I am a Libertarian who thinks both major parties stink to high heaven and are morally & ethically bankrupt. That said, I found the SOTU address to be lacking in inspiration and content. Much like the Campaigner-in-Chief pre-election & throughout his first year in office, the soaring rhetoric, empty promises, and platitudes rang hollow again to me last night. Actions speak louder than words & this President is a great speaker, but not a leader and a governor who inspires. I for one am sick & tired of the lies & empty promises...i.e., full transparency via C-Span, no lobbyists, no earmarks, ending politics as usual and then doing backroom deals & buying Senate votes. Last night could have been an opp'y for Nobama to come clean & take accountability for these missteps - it was almost like he forgot he was President for a year.

 

You were dealt a bad hand when you inherited the White House, we get it; he doesn't miss a chance to remind us, including last night. Stop playing the blame game - it's your Presidency now. He was confrontational and defiant to a fault- he missed a chance to take ownership of mistakes made & opportunities lost, and he whiffed. All this does is create more division & contention. He also managed to diss the Supreme Court - not smart and a shameful breach of etiquette. He mentioned nothing about tort reform or terrorism - bad idea. Lots of condescending finger-pointing & lecturing - not good.

 

Bottom line: I don't he helped himself. Once again he was so full of contradictions. He claims to want to work together to get things done but then he rejects any and all Republican proposals for healthcare reform. I want him to succeed but to me last night was a chance to regain credibility and he failed. Just stop talking & get the job done. I hate to say this but if Nobama does not move to the center with common-sense solutions (like Clinton) not entirely driven by strident ideology, he will go down as the worst President since Jimmy Carter....mark my words.

 

 

what proposals did the Reps have? i must have missed that. They have voted no on every single thing he has proposed and not offered anything close to reform. You can argue Obama has missed the mark on his goals, and take your shots, "nobama" really you must watch foxnews too much. BUt you cant say with a straight face the REpublicans have done anything construction since he took office. They have stood in the way of everything and anything.

[wjag]

Obama clearly had more to worry about in the first year of a presidency since Reagan. I give him props for hanging in there. America ain't easy.

[Stoner]

what proposals did the Reps have? i must have missed that. They have voted no on every single thing he has proposed and not offered anything close to reform. You can argue Obama has missed the mark on his goals, and take your shots, "nobama" really you must watch foxnews too much. BUt you cant say with a straight face the REpublicans have done anything construction since he took office. They have stood in the way of everything and anything.

 

Remember that they vowed to make health care reform Obama's "Waterloo." Great Americans.

[SwampD]

You've got to admit, Swamp's right. If you're calling him "Nobama" and "Barry," you probably aren't giving him much of a chance. Cf. the folks who were calling GWB "Shrub" as soon as he took office.

This.

 

I retract the name calling of Barack Hussein Obama. I agree it detracts from my credibility in trying to form an educated opinion. Also I think it reduces me to other name callers of GWB (i.e., blue blood earlier in this thread) and the Republican Party in general, i.e., racist, homophobic, obstructionist, blah, blah, blah.

 

I do want to give BHO more than a chance; I want him to succeed for the good of our country. He is a great speaker with charisma but I think he is capable of so much more, but as a rigid ideologue I am doubtful. Actions speak louder than words.

It really was the only thing I commented on in your post. But you talked about his track record in his first year. If you don't think he did a good job in his first year, you should really go back a year and read this board. It was pretty dark. Layoffs and foreclosures was all we heard.

 

When everyone is comparing the economy to the Great Depression, it's a little bit bigger than just bringing some pork back to the home state. We're better off than we were a year ago. The bailouts worked and nationalize health care for everyone is a good thing. No one will convince me otherwise.

 

As to the "Typical response from the left", c'mon. That was ME, commenting on a post by YOU. I could say that "That was a typical response from the right."

[Stoner]

It was "homosexual." Blocked it the first time and let the second pass. Maybe ALF is conflicted :rolleyes:

 

SDS, come on. Do you like a filter that makes "homosexual" a naughty word? For someone who fiercely protects his message board from trolls and takes great pride in quality (thank you), this is really an embarrassment.

 

Bisexual

 

Trisexual

 

Metrosexual

 

Larry Quinn

[mercury]

Anyone watch it?

 

No.

 

Care to discuss?

 

No.

[Eric in Akron]

You were dealt a bad hand when you inherited the White House, we get it; he doesn't miss a chance to remind us, including last night. Stop playing the blame game - it's your Presidency now.

 

Constantly pointing the finger at Bush for the problems we face, frustrates me. Reagan never said look what I inherited from Carter, he just dealt with it and took action.

 

The past is in the past, we must influence the present to guide the future. After all, it is the long term future that we should be concerned about. Sacrifice our present to ensure the future, rather than what "I" want now and scr*w the future.

[Eleven]

No.

 

 

 

No.

 

This was hilarious.

[SwampD]

Constantly pointing the finger at Bush for the problems we face, frustrates me. Reagan never said look what I inherited from Carter, he just dealt with it and took action.

 

The past is in the past, we must influence the present to guide the future. After all, it is the long term future that we should be concerned about. Sacrifice our present to ensure the future, rather than what "I" want now and scr*w the future.

When people stop blaming him for the problems left to him from before he took office, then maybe he'll stop telling people where the blame actually lies.

 

In my opinion, George W. Bush was the worst president in my lifetime. It is going to take longer than the term(s) of this president to recover from the policies put forth by him. IMO. I don't care if you agree or not. It's just my opinion.

[nfreeman]

Obama clearly had more to worry about in the first year of a presidency since Reagan.

9/11?

 

Remember that they vowed to make health care reform Obama's "Waterloo." Great Americans.

Maybe they sincerely thought his plan was a bad idea (as a substantial majority of the population now does)?

[Stoner]

9/11?

 

 

Maybe they sincerely thought his plan was a bad idea (as a substantial majority of the population now does)?

 

Naive much? I would bet that had Obama put forth the Republicans' health care plan (is there one?), they would have voted against it.

 

It's not about the people.

[SarasotaSabre]

you missed my retraction Patty16 on "nobama", so wake up and let it go.

 

"you nissed that"? let me guess, because you have chosen not to stay informed about both sides of the debate. Are you serious that you don't know of any proposals the Reps have offered? How about interstate competition for health insurance? How about tort reform? You won't hear that Reps have offered solutions because Barack Hussein Obama wants the opiated masses on the Left to think the Reps are obstructionist and have offered nothing, a continuation of the blame game. He won't even ACKNOWLEDGE what Reps have proposed, and it has been REPORTED that Reps have not been invited to sit at the table for discussion - so tell me, how can you seriously & with a straight face say they have not offered anything for reform?

 

Meaningful reform is a combination of alot of offerings, not purely ideological, not backroom deal with lobbyists, AARP, & pharma companies and not buying Senate votes (Nelson/Landrieu). If the Dems & Barack Hussein Obama were serious about meaningful reform they would consider tort reform, which is the #1 reason for out of control HC costs. Not a word about tort reform in the SOTU though, b/c the trial lawyer lobby is in bed with BHO. Oops, I forgot - I thought he promised no more "politics as usual" with lobbyists, right?

 

The mainstream media also does a damn good job of not reporting efforts by the Reps on reform proposals - they don't want Joe SixPack to know that.

 

what proposals did the Reps have? i must have missed that. They have voted no on every single thing he has proposed and not offered anything close to reform. You can argue Obama has missed the mark on his goals, and take your shots, "nobama" really you must watch foxnews too much. BUt you cant say with a straight face the REpublicans have done anything construction since he took office. They have stood in the way of everything and anything.

[SarasotaSabre]

I think you are perhaps the smartest guy here, Mercury.... :thumbsup:

 

No.

 

 

 

No.

[Patty16]

SDS, come on. Do you like a filter that makes "homosexual" a naughty word? For someone who fiercely protects his message board from trolls and takes great pride in quality (thank you), this is really an embarrassment.

 

Bisexual

 

Trisexual

 

Metrosexual

 

Larry Quinn

Bisexual

 

Trisexual

 

Metrosexual

 

Larry Quinn

 

Derek Roy/Sidney Crosby

[Hank]

 

Maybe they sincerely thought his plan was a bad idea (as a substantial majority of the population now does)?

 

I think it's a bad idea. I hate the idea of my tax dollars going to take care of an obese person who ate at mcdonalds four times a day for thirty years.