GAME DISCUSSION THREAD

[nucci]

Yeah, winning sucks. <_<

Don't you know? Winning doesn't count unless Sabres play a perfect game.

[jad1]

Don't you know? Winning doesn't count unless Sabres play a perfect game.

 

Well perfect games are a dime-a-dozen in the NHL.

[deluca67]

The Shootout is the Sabres season in a nut shell. If Miller can't shut the door then this team can't back him up with offense.

 

Another game where Miller keeps the team alive until they have a chance to remove their heads from their collective a$$es. Out shot 21-6 in the second? 38 for the game? Miller deserved the 1st star.

 

I don't see why anyone would have a problem with Kaleta taking a shot at the shootout. The Sabres could have sent Montador, Rivet and Lydman as the first three shooters. Their chances at winning it would have been the same. As they say, there are no shootouts in the playoffs. I foresee some multiple overtime playoff games for the Sabres this year with Miller standing on his head and hoping his teams can somehow manage a goal.

[wonderbread]

shitatasic effort tonight. Hank surprised me taking some swipes on the shot after the whistle.

 

Other than that a ho hum affair. Miller was insane for a few minutes making saves out of his arse.

[Kristian]

Another point they might not have deserved, but since both NJ and PIT lost in regulation, it still works out favorable in the standings.

 

That said, I couldn't care less about the effort and how we play atm, as long as the points keep coming in it's hard to argue with the standings.

 

Come playoff time (fingers crossed) is when I'll be worried.

 

No doubt this team has some bad habits, but given that the team is virtually identical to last years, it's a step in the right direction.

 

Tonight, I think they came out strong, they had the first six shots on goal, but still went down 1-0.

 

I dunno, it just seems that all the games I watch these days has one team dominating the first and having little or nothing to show for it come the first intermission.

 

Just sayin'....

[bottlecap]

Vanek looks off this whole year. Could it be he hasn't been the same since breaking his jaw? I"m not sure on this, maybe someone can answer: did Vanek wear the visor before breaking his jaw? I mean, maybe he's just not comfortable with a visor, maybe he just can't see the ice the way he used to? Only a guess...I'm not sure why he's looking like a broken-down German tank at this point. At least he can take off his helmet if he's taking a shootout attempt?

 

On another note, I know this doesn't go for the playoffs but it seems the order they choose who's going shoot the shoot-outs seems arbitrary. Kaleta? MacArthur? Roy? How do they pick the shootout shooters from night to night? It isn't consistent. I think they've got to go with who's hot on that particular night.

[blugold43]

oh well. too bad. Vanek, Roy and McArthur(?) had the shootout game winners on their sticks and blew it. They owe Millsie a beer.

a beer? Are you kidding. The way he carries this team most nights, they ought to line all their wives and girlfriends up to give him bjs.

[static70]

I think Miller played an ok game, but the defensive play was just horrible this game and the offense barely had a pulse.

 

Miller was not spectacular. There were 3 or 4 shots that cleanly beat him. This team is just not consistant on the offensive attack, I see a first round playoff exit if they don't get some consistency on offensive.

The Time On Attack this game pretty much tells the story of the Sabres season. You won't win many playoff series when you spend roughly 2/3rds of a game in your defensive zone.

 

But it was a road game and the Isles at home came to play. Buffalo needs help on offense, whether or not there is a player that can be had, who knows. But if they plan on making a serious run this season, Reiger better get off his can and do something.

[matter2003]

I don't see why anyone would have a problem with Kaleta taking a shot at the shootout. The Sabres could have sent Montador, Rivet and Lydman as the first three shooters. Their chances at winning it would have been the same. As they say, there are no shootouts in the playoffs. I foresee some multiple overtime playoff games for the Sabres this year with Miller standing on his head and hoping his teams can somehow manage a goal.

 

Wow, I see the overdramatic stuff starting pretty early this year...

 

Buffalo ranks tied for 14th in the NHL in goals per game at 2.72 with New Jersey. They are exactly 4 goals short of being ranked in the top 10. Ya think if they would have attempted to score an empty net goal in any of their games when they had the opportunities instead of just sliding the puck out of the zone they could have gotten 4 more goals? I mean the team isn't loaded with firepower, but at the same time they can score. Its not like every game they play is a 1-0 or 2-1 game. They are also ranked 8th in the league in 5 on 5 goals for/against at 1.14.

 

Not sure where your whole, "this team ranks 30th in the NHL in scoring" points comes from, but please stop with the falsehoods. You can have whatever opinion you want, but it clearly is NOT backed up by the stats. Does Miller keep them in games? Of course, just like Brodeur keeps New Jersey in games and any good goalie keeps any team in games. That point is just a silly point to make. Of course teams with better goalies are going to allow fewer goals than teams with crappy goalies. As Mike Robitaille says repeatedly the goalie is the most important position in the game. You act like its only good fortune the Sabres win games. Its not. They have a good goalie. He is part of the team, the same way Ovechkin and Semin are part of the Capitals and Crosby and Malkin are part of the Penguins. Noone ever says the only reason the Caps or Penguins win so many games is because of those players do they? Newsflash, good players at any position, but especially in goal help your teams win more games. The team plays very well in front of Miller for the most part. Lets stop being in fantasyland pretending the way you win hockey games is by outscoring everyone 7-5--we already saw that didn't work out too good for us a few years ago. Then you would be complaining the Sabres suck on defense and they won't make it anywhere. Basically you just seem like a negative person who is always negative only for the sake of being negative, regardless of what the statistics show. The Sabres sit 1 point out of the conference lead, haven't lost a game in regulation in almost a month(December 23rd), sit 10 points ahead in their division with a game in hand on Boston, and are continuously piling on points, but you seem determined to show how bad they suck. I'll bet most teams in the NHL would love to "suck" as bad as the Sabres do right about now...

[Eleven]

1. Miller didn't look good last night. The first and third goals were on him, and there was one goal in the shootout (Hunter? I don't quite remember) where he just stood still. It's ok; he'll bounce back.

 

2. What the hell has happened to TV? Therapy, dude. Get some.

 

3. Kevin Sylvester is actually freaking worse than John Gurtler. Think about that for a moment. I don't ever want to hear him do a play-by-play again.

 

4. I picked the Sabres shoot-out contestants in order until Ruff surprised me with MacArthur, Would have liked to have seen Myers in there for one. Kaleta does not belong in a shoot-out, just like Mair does not belong in a shoot-out (the other night). What is Lindy thinking?

[matter2003]

4. Kaleta does not belong in a shoot-out, just like Mair does not belong in a shoot-out (the other night). What is Lindy thinking?

Probably rewarding these guys for playing hard every time they hit the ice, unlike many of their teammates...

[deluca67]

Not sure where your whole, "this team ranks 30th in the NHL in scoring" points comes from,

I would love for you to quote the post I wrote where I said the Sabres are "30th" in scoring.

 

The Sabres have done well to scratch their way into the the top 20. As they say "consistency is key" and this offense is nowhere near as consistant as they need to be if they plan on going deep into the playoffs. I'll say it again, Miller is having one of those special years as a goalie. For this team to waste it and not go out and acquire a consistant offensive threat it would be a crime.

[Stoner]

shitatasic effort tonight. Hank surprised me taking some swipes on the shot after the whistle.

 

Other than that a ho hum affair. Miller was insane for a few minutes making saves out of his arse.

 

OK but what about when someone pulls the horseshoe out of that arse? Myers and Butler have both made career-quality saves behind him in the last two games. Players are hitting posts and crossbars behind him when he's totally out of the play. He's giving up huge rebounds of late. It has to catch up with him.

 

I sense his frustration level really rising. I don't blame him.

 

I'm more with DeLuca than anyone else about how the playoffs will probably play out.

[deluca67]

That said, I couldn't care less about the effort and how we play atm, as long as the points keep coming in it's hard to argue with the standings.

It's actually quite easy. Is there one person on this board that would consider the season a success id they finish 1st in the conference and get knocked out in the first round? How many teams this year are going to have great regular seasons only to get the early exit.

 

I'm glad to see others beside myself take a fine tooth comb to this team. Just getting back to the playoffs will be more of a relief than anything. Having Miller playing at his current level has certainly , for me at least, raised the ceiling of possibilities of what this team can accomplish. It wasn't too long ago we all found out the Presidents' Trophy is meaningless. They are getting Stanley Cup quality goaltending from Miller. Don't waste it.

[Eleven]

Probably rewarding these guys for playing hard every time they hit the ice, unlike many of their teammates...

 

If that's the case--and you may be onto something here--give them gift cards to Tim Horton's or something instead. These guys don't belong in the first fifteen in shootouts.

[static70]

If that's the case--and you may be onto something here--give them gift cards to Tim Horton's or something instead. These guys don't belong in the first fifteen in shootouts.

:thumbsup:

[deluca67]

Some more in regards to "The Standings."

 

The Blackhawks are :

 

1st in points

2nd in goals for

1st in goals agaiinst

1st in shots allowed (8.2 less per game than the Sabres)

 

How did the Sabres beat them 2-1? Goaltending! It is the great equalizer. Lalime played his best game as a Sabre and maybe of his career. Could they beat the 'Hawks in a 7 game series? Right now I doubt it. Considering the advantage the Sabres have in goal over most of the other contenders it wouldn't take much to turn that around. Find that dirty Jay McKee type blueliner who will lay his body out shift after shift and find a scorer. The Sabres don't have to sell the farm to get either.

[Kristian]

It's actually quite easy. Is there one person on this board that would consider the season a success id they finish 1st in the conference and get knocked out in the first round? How many teams this year are going to have great regular seasons only to get the early exit.

 

 

Which is why I said I would start worrying come playoff time.

 

The thing is, I've been voicing the exact same issues as many other on this board for the past three seasons, but seeing as not much is changing regarding the roster, I just can't be bothered with it anymore.

 

I've called out the "top-6" as much as anyone, but no matter how much I complain about them, nothing's gonna change so, in the end I've grown pretty indefferent to this teams shortcomings.

 

Which is why I'm harping about small steps in the right direction, cause everyone already knows how I feel about the brat pack.

[K-9]

Wow, I see the overdramatic stuff starting pretty early this year...

 

Buffalo ranks tied for 14th in the NHL in goals per game at 2.72 with New Jersey. They are exactly 4 goals short of being ranked in the top 10. Ya think if they would have attempted to score an empty net goal in any of their games when they had the opportunities instead of just sliding the puck out of the zone they could have gotten 4 more goals? I mean the team isn't loaded with firepower, but at the same time they can score. Its not like every game they play is a 1-0 or 2-1 game. They are also ranked 8th in the league in 5 on 5 goals for/against at 1.14.

 

Not sure where your whole, "this team ranks 30th in the NHL in scoring" points comes from, but please stop with the falsehoods. You can have whatever opinion you want, but it clearly is NOT backed up by the stats. Does Miller keep them in games? Of course, just like Brodeur keeps New Jersey in games and any good goalie keeps any team in games. That point is just a silly point to make. Of course teams with better goalies are going to allow fewer goals than teams with crappy goalies. As Mike Robitaille says repeatedly the goalie is the most important position in the game. You act like its only good fortune the Sabres win games. Its not. They have a good goalie. He is part of the team, the same way Ovechkin and Semin are part of the Capitals and Crosby and Malkin are part of the Penguins. Noone ever says the only reason the Caps or Penguins win so many games is because of those players do they? Newsflash, good players at any position, but especially in goal help your teams win more games. The team plays very well in front of Miller for the most part. Lets stop being in fantasyland pretending the way you win hockey games is by outscoring everyone 7-5--we already saw that didn't work out too good for us a few years ago. Then you would be complaining the Sabres suck on defense and they won't make it anywhere. Basically you just seem like a negative person who is always negative only for the sake of being negative, regardless of what the statistics show. The Sabres sit 1 point out of the conference lead, haven't lost a game in regulation in almost a month(December 23rd), sit 10 points ahead in their division with a game in hand on Boston, and are continuously piling on points, but you seem determined to show how bad they suck. I'll bet most teams in the NHL would love to "suck" as bad as the Sabres do right about now...

 

Very informative post. Thanks for doing the research on the numbers.

 

Couldn't agree more about the role of a good goaltender and how EVERY team would like to have one. The Sabres have nothing to apologize for. Would it be great to have an OV or Crosby to along with Miller? Of course. But as you point out, we're more than holding our own against the rest of the league. And that's WITHOUT the usual contributions by Vanek and an abysmal faceoff percentage (with apologies to the Goose).

 

I can understand the concern about offensive numbers but that concern should be tempered by the facts you presented and knowing that when playoff time comes MORE teams will ratchet back to the defensive style we already play. Seems to me, we'll be better poised than anyone next to the Devils to play that type of game.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[carpandean]

The way I'm looking at it right now is that they have a month and a half before any real trades are going to be made. That month and a half will show what and who they need to get, and who is expendable. Good or bad, we are (and hopefully Darcy is) learning about who these guys are or are not. So, I am sitting back and watching ... for now ... saving any "the Sabres better get ____" posts until it's the time where the Sabres and the rest of the league actually do that.

[deluca67]

The way I'm looking at it right now is that they have a month and a half before any real trades are going to be made. That month and a half will show what and who they need to get, and who is expendable. Good or bad, we are (and hopefully Darcy is) learning about who these guys are or are not. So, I am sitting back and watching ... for now ... saving any "the Sabres better get ____" posts until it's the time where the Sabres and the rest of the league actually do that.

Wouldn't you just love though for the Sabres to be proactive in this regard. The Sabres know what they have. They don't need another month and a half. Make a move sooner and it gives that player(s) a chance to acclimate to the new surroundings. Waiting till the deadline only accomplishes one things, it drives the price up.

[Eleven]

Wouldn't you just love though for the Sabres to be proactive in this regard. The Sabres know what they have. They don't need another month and a half. Make a move sooner and it gives that player(s) a chance to acclimate to the new surroundings. Waiting till the deadline only accomplishes one things, it drives the price up.

 

 

No. It is the exact opposite. There are teams that make deals at the deadline that they will not make in mid-January. Would the Sabres have traded Campbell for Bernier in mid-January?

[Taro T]

The way I'm looking at it right now is that they have a month and a half before any real trades are going to be made. That month and a half will show what and who they need to get, and who is expendable. Good or bad, we are (and hopefully Darcy is) learning about who these guys are or are not. So, I am sitting back and watching ... for now ... saving any "the Sabres better get ____" posts until it's the time where the Sabres and the rest of the league actually do that.

Excellent post.

 

Wouldn't you just love though for the Sabres to be proactive in this regard. The Sabres know what they have. They don't need another month and a half. Make a move sooner and it gives that player(s) a chance to acclimate to the new surroundings. Waiting till the deadline only accomplishes one things, it drives the price up.

While it might be nice to see Ovechkin brought in today for Stafford and MacArthur, a major trade at this point isn't likely to happen. (Yeah, I know you aren't expecting a trade that unrealistic, it was merely used for emphasis.) I assume that you are looking to see the Sabres bring in a top 6 forward rather than another Paille.

 

The reason it won't happen today isn't due to Darcy making no trades in season prior to the trade deadline (he does in fact on occassion make in season trades); and it is only partially due to Darcy trying to get absolute top value for the assets he currently holds.

 

A big part of the reason that there won't be many major trades prior to the deadline is that you currently have 13 teams in the Wales that are w/in 4 points of the playoffs and 13 teams in the Campbell that are w/in 8 points of the playoffs (11 are w/in 6 pts). So 26 teams are w/in 1 hot streak of being in the playoffs. There are only 2 teams in the league that MIGHT be willing to admit today that they have no possible way to make the playoffs this year.

 

How do you figure that an opposing GM is willing to accept less today to admit that he's building for the future and is writing off this year than he will be ~1 month from now at the deadline? Most GMs are not overly anxious to trade today's asset for tomorrow's one before he has to. Why would LA trade Ryan Smyth for prospects today when they are in a battle for the last playoff spot? Wouldn't Lombardi be MORE willing to trade him for that sort of package at the deadline if the Kings were drifting severely downward? Right now there are probably ~10-15 teams that would be interested in picking up Smyth; at the deadline that # would definitely decrease and possibly even be cut in 1/2. So there are likely fewer parties vying for his services at the deadline than there are today. While there may be more desperation on the part of buyers at the deadline, there will also be a larger pool of "available" rentals which will likely in large part offset the "desperation premium." There is also additional desperation on the part of sellers (see Kovy below).

 

Or do you figure that a team that is looking to go D for F or vice versa (shoring up a weakness by weakening a strength) and believes it can make the playoffs will want a Paetsch today but will want a Tallinder or Lydman in 1 month?

 

Or do you figure that a guy that is going to become an UFA will be traded cheaper today that he will be when the GM is looking at a hard and fast 1 hour left to deal him or he gets nothing? Waddell knows he has to either sign Kovy (not likely) or trade him (ding, ding, ding, we have a winner) or lose him for nothing (extremely not likely, but hey this is Don friggin' Waddell we're talking about, so anything's possible). If Kovy goes at a discount it isn't going to occur prior to the Olympics, I can guarantee you that.

 

If those aren't the basis for the statement, please tell me what the basis was.

[static70]

Very informative post. Thanks for doing the research on the numbers.

 

Couldn't agree more about the role of a good goaltender and how EVERY team would like to have one. The Sabres have nothing to apologize for. Would it be great to have an OV or Crosby to along with Miller? Of course. But as you point out, we're more than holding our own against the rest of the league. And that's WITHOUT the usual contributions by Vanek and an abysmal faceoff percentage (with apologies to the Goose).

 

I can understand the concern about offensive numbers but that concern should be tempered by the facts you presented and knowing that when playoff time comes MORE teams will ratchet back to the defensive style we already play. Seems to me, we'll be better poised than anyone next to the Devils to play that type of game.

 

GO SABRES!!!

I do have a question on this. If teams "ratchet" back to "defensive style" of play, then why do coaches often, if not every time, sight the fact that they are going to play the system that successfully got them to the playoffs?

[K-9]

I do have a question on this. If teams "ratchet" back to "defensive style" of play, then why do coaches often, if not every time, sight the fact that they are going to play the system that successfully got them to the playoffs?

 

I have the same question. My thinking is that it's a lot of "coach speak" going into the playoffs. But things are different once they get there. There is definately more of a premium paid to the defensive end of things once the playoffs start. IMHO it has a lot to do with estabishing momentum. For whatever reason scoring that first goal in a playoff game and not giving it up is critical. Even the refs change their style. What's called in the regular season isn't in the playoffs and they essentially swallow their whistles in the 3rd period where nothing short of a mugging will be called.

 

GO SABRES!!!