The Rivet/Butler Pairing...

[LabattBlue]

As much as I hammer on Rivet, he was a +4 playing with Lydman while Butler was out Injured. Butler comes back and the pairing is a trainwreck as Rivet is -4 and Butler -5 since they have been reunited.

 

Two choices for Lindy(other than sticking his head in the sand and changing nothing)...

 

1. Get Butler out of the lineup and Sekera(or even Paetsch) in.

 

2. Change up the pairings.

[static70]

As much as I hammer on Rivet, he was a +4 playing with Lydman while Butler was out Injured. Butler comes back and the pairing is a trainwreck as Rivet is -4 and Butler -5 since they have been reunited.

 

Two choices for Lindy(other than sticking his head in the sand and changing nothing)...

 

1. Get Butler out of the lineup and Sekera(or even Paetsch) in.

 

2. Change up the pairings.

I never liked Butler, Blue, and I think you are correct Sekera would be the one I would put in there.

[inkman]

Is it possible to send Butler down? I haven't noticed him playing terrible but by everyone's account, he's been awful. If he could spend a few weeks in Portland getting his mojo back, it might do him some good.

[That Aud Smell]

Is it possible to send Butler down?

i will leave it to one of the usual suspects to answer definitively, but it feels like he would have to clear waivers.

 

I haven't noticed him playing terrible but by everyone's account, he's been awful. If he could spend a few weeks in Portland getting his mojo back, it might do him some good.

i can't say he's stood out to me either in a negative way - but, sh*t, his numbers just don't lie. the kid should be fine as a future 3/4 d-man -- but he does need a mojo infusion.

[LabattBlue]

Maybe calling up Weber for a couple of games would get the focus back for Sekera(even though I don't believe he was playing that poorly) and Butler?

[end the curse]

As much as I hammer on Rivet, he was a +4 playing with Lydman while Butler was out Injured. Butler comes back and the pairing is a trainwreck as Rivet is -4 and Butler -5 since they have been reunited.

 

Two choices for Lindy(other than sticking his head in the sand and changing nothing)...

 

1. Get Butler out of the lineup and Sekera(or even Paetsch) in.

 

2. Change up the pairings.

No, this is not a smart analysis. Rivet is painfully slow, consistently out of position, soft, and has been a liability on both ends of the ice all season long. +/- is not the only indicator of a player's worth, and if anyone needs to sit it's Rivet. Butler has played well since returning, and has 11 points in just 30 games, while Rivet has 11 in 42. Butler also has more blocked shots, more hits and fewer giveaways.

 

The defensive pairings should look like this:

 

Myers-Tallinder

Lydman-Sekera

Butler-Montador

 

Out: Rivet

[Rico7]

No, this is not a smart analysis. Rivet is painfully slow, consistently out of position, soft, and has been a liability on both ends of the ice all season long. +/- is not the only indicator of a player's worth, and if anyone needs to sit it's Rivet. Butler has played well since returning, and has 11 points in just 30 games, while Rivet has 11 in 42. Butler also has more blocked shots, more hits and fewer giveaways.

 

The defensive pairings should look like this:

 

Myers-Tallinder

Lydman-Sekera

Butler-Montador

 

Out: Rivet

 

So you are going to sit the guy with the C on his chest? Never going to happen.

[end the curse]

So you are going to sit the guy with the C on his chest? Never going to happen.

 

In an ideal world, maybe...of course, I fully understand that will never happen, though. Sad to see a guy's career wind down before our eyes like this, though. Knees and age have taken their toll. Dude is shot.

 

BTW, Ruff was benched as captain back in his playing days and resented it tremendously.

[Rico7]

In an ideal world, maybe...of course, I fully understand that will never happen, though. Sad to see a guy's career wind down before our eyes like this, though. Knees and age have taken their toll. Dude is shot.

 

BTW, Ruff was benched as captain back in his playing days and resented it tremendously.

 

More I think about it I wouldn't be surprised to see him get some rest before the playoffs though. So I guess it is possible that he does sit for a couple games.

[LabattBlue]

In an ideal world, maybe...of course, I fully understand that will never happen, though. Sad to see a guy's career wind down before our eyes like this, though. Knees and age have taken their toll. Dude is shot.

 

BTW, Ruff was benched as captain back in his playing days and resented it tremendously.

So you fully understand your alternate solution will never happen, but my analysis is the one that is not smart? :blink: Maybe you are spending too much time in your cool virtual pub. :doh:

[Kristian]

More I think about it I wouldn't be surprised to see him get some rest before the playoffs though. So I guess it is possible that he does sit for a couple games.

 

Would make sense, though I don't see that happening.

 

A lot of people spent most of the 06-07 season talking about how Teppo should be given the odd night off here and there, to make sure he was fresh for the playoffs, yet Lindy kept playing him.

 

As long as Rivet's not dinged up enough to actually be injured, he'll play.

[ntjacks79]

No, this is not a smart analysis. Rivet is painfully slow, consistently out of position, soft, and has been a liability on both ends of the ice all season long. +/- is not the only indicator of a player's worth, and if anyone needs to sit it's Rivet. Butler has played well since returning, and has 11 points in just 30 games, while Rivet has 11 in 42. Butler also has more blocked shots, more hits and fewer giveaways.

 

The defensive pairings should look like this:

 

Myers-Tallinder

Lydman-Sekera

Butler-Montador

 

Out: Rivet

I tend to agree with you on this. I was reading this thread regarding Butler, and a bit confused given that when watching the games since Butler came back I thought he was doing reasonably well. On the other hand, Rivet wears the C for a reason. Obviously they feel he is a leader (I wouldn't know, never having seen it). You have to be careful with things like that for chemistry reasons. It could be just like with Chris Drury. I still feel he would be invaluable to leading Buffalo's forward group, even if his numbers weren't spectacular.

[end the curse]

So you fully understand your alternate solution will never happen, but my analysis is the one that is not smart? :blink: Maybe you are spending too much time in your cool virtual pub. :doh:

 

The reason your analysis was flawed is because it pointed to Butler as the weakness in the Butler-Rivet pairing. Perhaps you need to leave your parents basement and head on over to the pub for a beer? :rolleyes:

[shrader]

i will leave it to one of the usual suspects to answer definitively, but it feels like he would have to clear waivers.

 

That window is closing quickly. He will no longer be exempt from waivers once he plays in his 80th game. He has played in 77 so far.

[LabattBlue]

Perhaps you need to leave your parents basement...

Good internet response except for the facts that my parents don't have a basement in their house nor have I lived there for 30 years. :oops:

[Sabretip]

Butler has been a little better since returning from injury than before he went out but I agree - he's still nowhere close to the consistent, reliable presence he was last season. He seems to be more indecisive with the puck which leads to turnovers in his own end when forecheckers pressure him, and errant passes when he tries setting up offensive plays. He's absolutely clueless on the power play and definitely shows his lack of experience of ever playing that role in college.

 

As for Rivet, I'm disappointed that he hasn't been as tough or steady as I thought he'd be. He's been good in PK situations and shows some smarts on the power play when he pinches to keep pucks in or uses the fake shot to get pucks through instead of blind slappers into defenders' shins. But he hasn't been nearly physical or tough enough in his own end and does seem to get caught out of position more often than not. I was stunned to see a graphic on MSG last night that said Montador was the Sabres' leading defenseman in hits. Considering that Montador is a 5th/6th defenseman at best, that doesn't say much about Rivet (or even Lydman, who used to be the leader in hits by defensemen the past 3-4 seasons).

 

However, I think Ruff and Regier are very high on both Myers and Butler being the cornerstones of the defense for years to come and can't see Ruff benching Butler anytime soon.

 

Suggestions to bench Rivet also make no sense, since he's the captain and highest paid defenseman right now.

[end the curse]

Good internet response except for the facts that my parents don't have a basement in their house nor have I lived there for 30 years. :oops:

 

I hate when quality sarcastic humor is taken literally...

[static70]

*sigh*

I guess the only thing to do in a situation like this then is to Bench Lydman and Montador. :blink:

Someone must be punished for Rivet and Butler's play. :rolleyes:

[nfreeman]

I think some posters are getting a bit overwrought here.

 

While Rivet hasn't been setting the world on fire, he's also not been the train wreck that some here seem to be imagining. He's a good, solid, steady, veteran defenseman who is a leader and knows what to do in every situation. He's on the ice in crunch time when grownups are needed. He doesn't get panicked. He doesn't allow his goalie to get run.

 

Want some stats? He's #4 in ice time (over 19 minutes per game), and the captain, for the team that is #1 in the NHL in GAA and #2 in the EC and #4 in the NHL in points. He's a minus-2 on the season -- same as Gonchar, Matthias Ohlund and Brad Stuart.

 

Frankly, while Butler hasn't been setting the world on fire either, I don't see him falling apart either. He is what he is -- a young defenseman with a pretty good, steady, defense-first game.

 

There's a reason the Sabres are #1 in the NHL in defense, and it ain't just Miller. The team as a whole is playing great defense. I think it would be crazy to get panicked over +/- stats and start shaking up the lineup.

[LabattBlue]

I hate when quality sarcastic humor is taken literally...

Not only Mr. Knowitall, but also Mr. TryToBeFunny with the key work being "Try". <_<

[LabattBlue]

There's a reason the Sabres are #1 in the NHL in defense, and it ain't just Miller. The team as a whole is playing great defense. I think it would be crazy to get panicked over +/- stats and start shaking up the lineup.

It's more than +/- with Butler. Also, it is probably not good timing to say that the Sabres are playing great team defense after giving up 39 shots at home to a crummy Tampa team and allowing them back in a game where we had them buried two minutes into a game. I may be underrating the team defense, but the improved team GAA is MUCH more about Miller than it is team defense.

[end the curse]

Telling hitting stats for Sabres Top-6 d-men. Note, the report on last night's broadcast that Montador is our top hitting defensemen was incorrect. Lydman is by far our most active with hits per game, Rivet the least:

 

Myers..........42GP/47Hits

Lydman...... 28GP/46Hits

Tallinder......42GP/34Hits

Montador....42GP/32Hits

Butler..........30GP/26Hits

Rivet........... 40GP/24Hits

 

http://www.nhl.com/i...rtssPlayerStats

[end the curse]

I think some posters are getting a bit overwrought here.

 

While Rivet hasn't been setting the world on fire, he's also not been the train wreck that some here seem to be imagining. He's a good, solid, steady, veteran defenseman who is a leader and knows what to do in every situation. He's on the ice in crunch time when grownups are needed. He doesn't get panicked. He doesn't allow his goalie to get run.

 

Want some stats? He's #4 in ice time (over 19 minutes per game), and the captain, for the team that is #1 in the NHL in GAA and #2 in the EC and #4 in the NHL in points. He's a minus-2 on the season -- same as Gonchar, Matthias Ohlund and Brad Stuart.

 

Frankly, while Butler hasn't been setting the world on fire either, I don't see him falling apart either. He is what he is -- a young defenseman with a pretty good, steady, defense-first game.

 

There's a reason the Sabres are #1 in the NHL in defense, and it ain't just Miller. The team as a whole is playing great defense. I think it would be crazy to get panicked over +/- stats and start shaking up the lineup.

 

Overall, a very good analysis. I think it's fair to be concerned, though, about the noticeable dropoff in Rivet's play. Butler is still very young with a big upside, but I really have liked his play overall. I understand as the captain, Rivet has locker room leadership contributions that can't be measured in stats, but we shouldn't ignore that he is not playing at a high level, either. No need to panic, but something to be aware of.

[nfreeman]

No, this is not a smart analysis.

This was unnecessary and created some ill will that detracted from a good hockey debate.

 

It's more than +/- with Butler. Also, it is probably not good timing to say that the Sabres are playing great team defense after giving up 39 shots at home to a crummy Tampa team and allowing them back in a game where we had them buried two minutes into a game. I may be underrating the team defense, but the improved team GAA is MUCH more about Miller than it is team defense.

Fair point about it being more than +/-, and I agree that he's not been at his best. I do think last night's game wasn't a fair barometer -- it felt like the whole team took its foot off the gas after jumping out to the big lead.

 

As for causes of improved GAA -- I'm a big Miller fan, but I think it's at least 50% system/team D. Of course, I've been wrong plenty of times before.

 

Overall, a very good analysis. I think it's fair to be concerned, though, about the noticeable dropoff in Rivet's play. Butler is still very young with a big upside, but I really have liked his play overall. I understand as the captain, Rivet has locker room leadership contributions that can't be measured in stats, but we shouldn't ignore that he is not playing at a high level, either. No need to panic, but something to be aware of.

I won't deny that Rivet hasn't been at his best, or that it's possible that he's on a career downward incline (worth noting though that plenty of defensemen play very well into their upper 30s). I just don't think it's nearly been to the degree that some posters are describing it. I think generally he's still very solid, and perhaps suffers a bit by comparison to the Natural and the resurrected Tallinder.

[Knightrider]

This was unnecessary and created some ill will that detracted from a good hockey debate.

 

 

I totally agree. If you want not smart analysis, it comes from me.