Phaneuf hit on Kopitar

[Skibum]

Kopitar put himself in harm's way there. That said, Phaneuf could have killed him and maybe didn't need to add the extra thrust. It's one thing to make a big hit, but sometimes guys seem like they're looking to cause an injury. That was brutal.

[That Aud Smell]

On an icing play, if you hit the other guy when not playing the puck, it is boarding per the rulebook.

watching the video again -- is the announcer indicating that the icing HAD been waved off irrespective of whether kopitar got there first? (i.e., phaneuf was deemed capable of playing the puck?)or is he saying that the icing is going to be waved off because kopitar's getting there first?

 

if there was no icing to be called regardless of who got there first, does that change the analysis?

[SwampD]

Kopitar put himself in harm's way there. That said, Phaneuf could have killed him and maybe didn't need to add the extra thrust. It's one thing to make a big hit, but sometimes guys seem like they're looking to cause an injury. That was brutal.

I've read this several times now and it just isn't true. The rules are different for icing than for just playing the puck against the boards. You can only play the puck, period. I think that he should have gotten a game misconduct. He never even thought about playing the puck. If they're not going to go to no touch icing, then the players need more protection from themselves. It's just too dangerous a play.

[deluca67]

On an icing play, if you hit the other guy when not playing the puck, it is boarding per the rulebook.

 

 

 

Since you didn't see anything wrong w/ the hit, perhaps you can tell us what part of the hit was "necessary?"

It was "necessary" because it is who Phaneuf is. It was as solid a check as you will see. Phaneuf used the angle got inside and drove through Kopitar's chest. Very similar to the MacArthur hit. The big difference being Phaneuf is the more experienced hitter and was able to avoid any hit from behind.

 

I've seen plays on icings this year were contact was made before the touch of the puck. I don't remember it being called boarding.

[carpandean]

It was "necessary" because it is who Phaneuf is. It was as solid a check as you will see. Phaneuf used the angle got inside and drove through Kopitar's chest. Very similar to the MacArthur hit. The big difference being Phaneuf is the more experienced hitter and was able to avoid any hit from behind.

 

I've seen plays on icings this year were contact was made before the touch of the puck. I don't remember it being called boarding.

This hit is exactly what the current rules were meant to prevent. Two players racing toward the boards at full speed creates far too dangerous of a situation to allow players to "fight" for the puck with any real physical contact. The compromise between the old dangerous rules and the unexciting "no touch" icing was to allow players to race each other for the puck, but that's it. Some refs may allow a little light contact, especially if a player misses the initial touch, but in general big hits like this on icings should be called every time.

[deluca67]

This hit is exactly what the current rules were meant to prevent. Two players racing toward the boards at full speed creates far too dangerous of a situation to allow players to "fight" for the puck with any real physical contact. The compromise between the old dangerous rules and the unexciting "no touch" icing was to allow players to race each other for the puck, but that's it. Some refs may allow a little light contact, especially if a player misses the initial touch, but in general big hits like this on icings should be called every time.

They should just get rid of icing all together. Make it a delay of game penalty if the puck is shot from the defensive zone - once clears the blue line and then shot? No stoppage. Let the goalie play the puck and keep the play moving.

[darksabre]

They should just get rid of icing all together. Make it a delay of game penalty if the puck is shot from the defensive zone - once clears the blue line and then shot? No stoppage. Let the goalie play the puck and keep the play moving.

 

I think that's a little bit much. College style icing would remedy the issue of contact between players on an icing.

[deluca67]

I think that's a little bit much. College style icing would remedy the issue of contact between players on an icing.

Why? It wouldn't be any different from the delay of game for shooting the puck over the glass. Keep the play moving. They should also return icings to the PK. I never understood why a penalized would get such a advantage.

[SwampD]

Why? It wouldn't be any different from the delay of game for shooting the puck over the glass. Keep the play moving. They should also return icings to the PK. I never understood why a penalized would get such a advantage.

That rule is stupid too.

[carpandean]

That rule is stupid too.

Yeah, I've always advocated the opposite of Deluca's suggestion: change the over the glass "penalty" to a faceoff in your own zone without a change or a TV timeout. So, if you're hemmed in your own end and fire it over the boards, your tired guys have to stay on and face their fresh ones.

 

Interesting idea on PK icing. I'm not sure that I agree with it, but it would be interesting to see what it would do to PP% around the league. If it got too high, they'd really have to work on improving the consistency of their penalty calling (or lack thereof.)

[SwampD]

Yeah, I've always advocated the opposite of Deluca's suggestion: change the over the glass "penalty" to a faceoff in your own zone without a change or a TV timeout. So, if you're hemmed in your own end and fire it over the boards, your tired guys have to stay on and face their fresh ones.

 

Interesting idea on PK icing. I'm not sure that I agree with it, but it would be interesting to see what it would do to PP% around the league. If it got too high, they'd really have to work on improving the consistency of their penalty calling (or lack thereof.)

I think it is already so hard to clear the puck suometimes and you would see scores that were 9 - 7 every night from all the 5 on 3s that would occur.

 

EDIT: That's if there was a penalty for icing AND no PK icing.

[deluca67]

I think it is already so hard to clear the puck suometimes and you would see scores that were 9 - 7 every night from all the 5 on 3s that would occur.

 

EDIT: That's if there was a penalty for icing AND no PK icing.

Is that a bad thing? They need to do something to increase scoring. Remember the days when players would actually shot the puck and beat a goalie? Seems most goals now resemble bumper pool.

 

I would also like to have a outer crease where it would be illegal for defenders to stand unless engaged with a offensive player. Much like the illegal defense in basketball.

 

How about a delay of game penalty after five icings?

[SwampD]

Is that a bad thing? They need to do something to increase scoring. Remember the days when players would actually shot the puck and beat a goalie? Seems most goals now resemble bumper pool.

 

I would also like to have a outer crease where it would be illegal for defenders to stand unless engaged with a offensive player. Much like the illegal defense in basketball.

 

How about a delay of game penalty after five icings?

This probably sounds wierd but I don't think they need to increase scoring. I think they need to increase scoring chances and they already have rule for that, interference. Unfortunately they just don't call it enough (unless, of course, it's against the Sabres, late in a tie game).

 

I like the cumulative icing penalty, though. I would even be for a penalty after three.

[deluca67]

This probably sounds wierd but I don't think they need to increase scoring. I think they need to increase scoring chances and they already have rule for that, interference. Unfortunately they just don't call it enough (unless, of course, it's against the Sabres, late in a tie game).

 

I like the cumulative icing penalty, though. I would even be for a penalty after three.

Which is the problem with any rule change. The first thing the NHL needs to do is stop listening to the "old guard" and start looking towards the future. There is a tremendous amount of really young talent in this league. My wife says that many are really good looking. They need to focus on those players and almost tailor the game to their skill sets. I can appreciate the tougher part of the game. It doesn't need to be one way or the other. Balance is the key. Right now the game is not in balance.

[darksabre]

Why? It wouldn't be any different from the delay of game for shooting the puck over the glass. Keep the play moving. They should also return icings to the PK. I never understood why a penalized would get such a advantage.

 

It would never keep the play moving. You'd have to stop the game every 3 minutes to assess a delay of game penalty. The reason icing isn't a penalty is because it happens all the time. You can't make icing a penalty. It would screw up the game completely.

 

If you want 3 on 3 hockey the entire game, then just say you want 3 on 3 hockey. Because that's what you'd get.

[deluca67]

It would never keep the play moving. You'd have to stop the game every 3 minutes to assess a delay of game penalty. The reason icing isn't a penalty is because it happens all the time. You can't make icing a penalty. It would screw up the game completely.

 

If you want 3 on 3 hockey the entire game, then just say you want 3 on 3 hockey. Because that's what you'd get.

Typical reactionary response. You alter the definition of icing as clearing two blue lines and then making it over the goal line. You can even nullify icing if a offensive player is over the center red line.

 

It is simply a base concept that can be adjusted to keep the flow of the game going.

[wjag]

I think they should just keep playing when a puck goes into the netting.. Let it drop back into play and game on..

[carpandean]

There is a tremendous amount of really young talent in this league. My wife says that many are really good looking.

You know it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:nana:

[wjag]

You know it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:nana:

Always makes me wonder why they shoot hockey photos after the guys just finished practicing..

[darksabre]

Typical reactionary response. You alter the definition of icing as clearing two blue lines and then making it over the goal line. You can even nullify icing if a offensive player is over the center red line.

 

It is simply a base concept that can be adjusted to keep the flow of the game going.

 

Honestly, it's irrelevant, because the entire point of this discussion is to remove injuries from racing for the puck. Changing the definition of icing doesn't change players racing to the puck and the resulting collisions. All it does is make the icing rules even more confusing. If you make it no touch icing, the problem is solved.

[wjag]

I'll go for the "out of the box" solution.

 

Scrap the stoppage of play on the icing. Allow the offensive team to bring it back into the zone without concern for onsides. Let the goalie fire it right back in.