Trade Target Watch

[static70]

I thought we were off of this idea. Are we back on it now?

Its always nice to stir the pot, if for no other reason than to hear the gripes begin. But hey, did we put you on the christmas card list? :death:

[nfreeman]

For the record.

 

KOVALCHUCK would be a friggen franchise player, get over it. He is, without a doubt, one of the top 10 players in the league. The real question everyone wants answered are: What would it cost us, both in the trade as well as the contract.

 

Being somewhat realistic, its going to cost us Vanek + MacArthur + prospect (Mancari or Gragnani) and 2nd round pick.

Is this worth Kovalchuck? IF he comes with a 10 year, 10 million dollar contract that is 10 mil a year, flatline.

Ya, this is well worth it. Hands down. You can't put a player at this age, ready to spend that 10 years fighting for the cup, on the back burner, thats just plain stupid.

Minor point: it's "Kovalchuk," not "Kovalchuck."

 

Either way, there is NFW the Sabres are signing anyone to a $100MM contract. I don't think anyone in the NHL will pay Kovy that much, either. I wouldn't be shocked to see $75MM, though.

 

Now, if the Sabres could get Kovy signed for say, $8MM x 9 years, in exchange for the package you mentioned -- I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[static70]

Minor point: it's "Kovalchuk," not "Kovalchuck."

 

Either way, there is NFW the Sabres are signing anyone to a $100MM contract. I don't think anyone in the NHL will pay Kovy that much, either. I wouldn't be shocked to see $75MM, though.

 

Now, if the Sabres could get Kovy signed for say, $8MM x 9 years, in exchange for the package you mentioned -- I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Glad you resonded nfreeman.

What do you think of a 6 year contrac? It gives Kovy to 34 and puts him in a situation where he could garner even more after that age. All depends on his performance until then I would guess.

But, at a 6 year contract what number do you feel would be realistic. I am guessing 9 mil a yr. What are your thoughts on this?

[VansTheMans]

We won't go after Kovie.

 

We'd have to give up too much, and considering our place in the standings, Darcy won't be eager to change the roster significantly.

 

If we weren't so high in the standings, and Darcy wasn't our GM, we might have a shot at acquiring the insanely talented Kovalchuk.

 

But lets make things fun. Say we were hunting for a playoff spot, and Darcy wasn't our GM.

 

What would I be willing to part with?

 

Throw them Pommers, Stafford, Sekera/Butler and a 1st round pick. Break the bank on Ilya. ELITE players of his mold DO NOT come around often. I'd give up as much 2nd line talent as Atlanta demanded to acquire a superstar like Ilya Kovalchuk.

 

2nd line talent can be rebuilt quickly in a farm system of our caliber. 1st line talent is acquired with a top 5 draft pick AND a lot of luck (or a hell of a lucky draft pick, see Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Miller, etc).

 

At 26, Ilya hasn't even peaked yet. He scored freaking 52 goals in the 2007-2008 season, and he's on pace for 50 goals this season. He isn't a fluke. He's 6'2 and 230 of pure hockey athleticism.

 

/Kovielovefest.

[nfreeman]

Glad you resonded nfreeman.

What do you think of a 6 year contrac? It gives Kovy to 34 and puts him in a situation where he could garner even more after that age. All depends on his performance until then I would guess.

But, at a 6 year contract what number do you feel would be realistic. I am guessing 9 mil a yr. What are your thoughts on this?

I'd be very happy to see the Sabres trade Vanek plus the other parts you mentioned for Kovy, with a 6 years x $9MM extension as part of the deal. I also think he'll get at least that much (ie $54MM), and probably more, as a UFA. Someone like the Rangers or Toronto will turn their roster upside down to make it happen. However, it's just hard to see the Sabres, who NEVER make splashy moves like this, doing this. It's also hard to see Kovy agreeing to an extension with Buffalo when he is 90 days or so (if the trade is made at the deadline) away from UFA and having his pick of a number of attractive destinations like L.A. or NYC.

 

Also, while I agree that Mancari and Gragnani aren't going to move the needle for Atlanta, I doubt they will get offered anyone nearly as good as Vanek unless an extension is part of the deal (so a Sabres offer involving Vanek would probably be the best offer Atlanta would get). No one, including the Sabres, is going to offer up a 40-goal scorer in exchange for a rental.

[inkman]

He isn't a fluke.

No, he's Alexei Yashin. I doubt he'll ever win anything.

[BetweenThePipes00]

No, he's Alexei Yashin. I doubt he'll ever win anything.

 

 

I don't know if he IS Alexei Yashin for sure, but he looks enough like him to scare me out of giving him $100 million ... I mentioned this in Chapter 1 of this argument about a week ago (or more), the parallels are downright scary.

 

And the fact is, they would HAVE to over pay him like that to keep him from hitting the market. All this talk about "reasonable" six year deals is moot because there is zero incentive for him to sign such a deal before July 1. And you can't possibly let him hit the market after giving up Vanek for him.

[shrader]

Yes they are. There is no reason outside of the Sabres that says they aren't. Singular decisions can be overturned if given to the group at large. If not these 2, then Weber is a viable option.

 

If Mancari was an NHL prospect, why didn't he receive an offer from anyone during the offseason? Yes he was restricted, but any offer made to him would not have called for any compensation and given the circumstances, Buffalo probably would have let him go.

[VansTheMans]

Has anyone mentioned Kaberle in this thread yet?

 

He's quite an interesting player to discuss.

 

Burke wants one of the 1st rounds he surrendered for Kessel back Im sure. Would you be comfortable sending Toronto a 1st round, prospect and a player in order to acquire Kaberle at the deadline?

 

He's a skilled PP QB, and can really move the puck up and down the ice. His contract is more than reasonable (in the ballpark of 4.25/yr I believe).

 

Darcy traded with Toronto last year at the deadline, so it isn't a complete impossibility.

[darksabre]

Has anyone mentioned Kaberle in this thread yet?

 

He's quite an interesting player to discuss.

 

Burke wants one of the 1st rounds he surrendered for Kessel back Im sure. Would you be comfortable sending Toronto a 1st round, prospect and a player in order to acquire Kaberle at the deadline?

 

He's a skilled PP QB, and can really move the puck up and down the ice. His contract is more than reasonable (in the ballpark of 4.25/yr I believe).

 

Darcy traded with Toronto last year at the deadline, so it isn't a complete impossibility.

 

Although I like Kaberle and he is an assist machine, I don't think it's the players that are killing our power play, it's the coaching. I'd rather dump our money into a center or a goal scorer, which has been a problem for us for quite some time now.

[VansTheMans]

Any centers/goal scorers you have in mind?

[darksabre]

Any centers/goal scorers you have in mind?

 

For centers, I'd love to have Matt Cullen from the Canes. He's an 11 year vet and puts up consistently good numbers playing for a Carolina team. He gets good ice time and works hard.

 

For goal scorers, I think it'll be hard for us to really be able to nail down someone who is going to pot 40 goals. That's not realistic. But a guy like Pavol Demitra on Vancouver is someone I'd try really hard to get. If we want to keep picking on the bottom feeders, I think Lee Stempniak and Raffi Torres could put up decent numbers for us, but they're cursed to be stuck on bad teams. I'd definitely also try to go after Ray Whitney. For what he makes, his production is huge and on Carolina, that's impressive.

 

Plus I'd love to steal something from Carolina to get back at them. :pirate:

[North Buffalo]

Dustin Penner is playing for the last placed Oilers and has been mentioned available if Edmonton decides on a fire sale. 20 goals, 20 assists, not bad.

[inkman]

Dustin Penner is playing for the last placed Oilers and has been mentioned available if Edmonton decides on a fire sale. 20 goals, 20 assists, not bad.

Straight up for Vanek? Oh the irony...

[BetweenThePipes00]

This sums up why I do not want Kovalchuk:

 

Sorry I never get the embedding of video correct, but watch this clip of a Pittsburgh goal the other night against Atlanta: http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlp=8473533&event=PIT234

 

At the start, Tyler Kennedy gets to a loose puck just ahead of Kovalchuk, but Kovalchuk skates with him into the neutral zone, looking like he really wants to avoid it turning into a 3-on-2 ... but then he stops skating when Kennedy passes the puck and glides into the defensive zone with one hand on his stick .... when Kennedy gets it back along the boards, Kovalchuk inexplicibly just turns and skates out of the picture to his customary spot at the blueline or something, leaving Kubina to deal with two guys down low ... and of course it ends up in the net.

 

Sorry, I do not want that guy on my team. This guy is the CAPTAIN of a team that had lost 8 straight at this point, it's a tie game, and he can't give even a token effort to stay on his man in the defensive zone? Actually, that's not fair, he didn't stand around and do nothing ... he made a conscious effort to skate out of the play when his guy had the puck. If Atlanta ever had posession I would cut him slack that maybe he was thinking breakout, but when Kennedy gets the puck along the boards at the hashmarks, Kovalchuk is on the faceoff dot looking right at him .... and chooses to skate away. This play makes Alfredsson's effort on Pommer's OT winner in '06 look like the work of a Norris Trophy winner. Is it just one play? Yeah, but if you want $10 million a year and a franchise built around you, you are going to be under the microscope.

 

No matter who the coach is or what the system is, that is unacceptable from your captain and best player. I don't care how many goals he can score, because Ovechkin scores too, and there's a decent chance he would have taken two strides and buried Kennedy in the corner, if not when he passes the puck in the neutral zone. And it's a very fair comparison because you'd have to pay him Ovechkin money to get him and it will hurt you elsewhere on the roster.

 

Are you SURE you think that guy is ready to be a leader and take a team on his back in the playoffs? Or even TO the playoffs? Because I am pretty sure he is NOT. I am all for making a move for offense and will be thrilled if they get someone who can score 75% of the way Kovalchuk does, even if he is expensive. But don't get this guy.

 

 

[spndnchz]

This sums up why I do not want Kovalchuk:

 

Sorry I never get the embedding of video correct, but watch this clip of a Pittsburgh goal the other night against Atlanta: http://video.nhl.com...33&event=PIT234

 

 

Word is he's going to Chicago for Versteeg and Barker plus sum'in.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Word is he's going to Chicago for Versteeg and Barker plus sum'in.

 

 

That would help get the Hawks out of cap jail next season, but they couldn't keep him ... that's a lot to give up for a rental, especially depending on what the sum'in is ....

 

Where are you getting this word, BTW?

[North Buffalo]

Straight up for Vanek? Oh the irony...

 

LOL, Wow you really are evil :pirate:

[Mbossy]

Straight up for Vanek? Oh the irony...

 

I don't think anything is straight up for Vanek right now.

[carpandean]

Straight up for Vanek? Oh the irony...

Lindy must love hearing this ...

Penner doing all the little things: The Sports Xchange reports Oilers RW Dustin Penner's offense isn't all that's turning heads this year. His all-around game has grown by leaps and bounds, as well. He's one of their top penalty killers and when Shawn Horcoff's shoulder needed a break from taking faceoffs, Penner stepped in and won more than he lost. "He's doing all the little things and he's doing them well," coach Pat Quinn said. "That's what your good players have to do."

(Link)

[darksabre]

Straight up for Vanek? Oh the irony...

 

Ugh, I'm almost sick enough of Vanek to be on board with that.

[wjag]

Stop all the Vanek hate... He has 11 goals in 42 games. Tied for the team lead. He'll be there when it is needed most. Enjoy the fact that the team can spread out the offense and win.

[SwampD]

Stop all the Vanek hate... He has 11 goals in 42 games. Tied for the team lead. He'll be there when it is needed most. Enjoy the fact that the team can spread out the offense and win.

Agreed. This year is the exception not the rule.

[darksabre]

It might be the exception, but at this rate his points total is going to be equivalent to what his goal total alone should be. That is unacceptable.

[static70]

It might be the exception, but at this rate his points total is going to be equivalent to what his goal total alone should be. That is unacceptable.

Agreed, and all of those fans defending Vanek should be ashamed of themselves.

Quick d4rksabre, grab your pitchfork and torch, I'll meet you infront of the arena :blink:

 

In all seriousness though, Vanek is having an off year. His overall point numbers are below average, I would expect a solid 80 to 85 point average. 40 goals a season or more, but as everyone is so fond of pointing out, its never a player, its the system <_< .