Trade Target Watch

[bottlecap]

Yeah, the coach asks that they try hard and backcheck. You keep making Kozlov and Afinogenov = all Eastern Europeans. I think you are overstating it. And incidentally, Kozlov has been happy in Atlanta for years now despite never winning anything. What does that tell you? Why is he never complaining about going to a contender?

 

 

I think Kozlov was resentful from Day 1 because he was used as a pawn in the Hasek "deal," which seemed to me really shady in retrospect. I read that Hasek specificed that Kozlov be the one to come from Detroit to Bflo because he didn't "respect" him. (maybe Kozlov fooled around with his wife too)

 

Kozlov despises Ruff for some reason because of his "primitive" style and probably a personality clash. You have to admit, he did well for Buffalo despite all that, until he started getting injured. He must be comfortable in Atlanta with all those Russians. Even though they're perrenial losers, at least he doesn't have to deal with the built-in harsh problems that Buffalo posed for Kozlov, who I'm sure has compared notes with Max and has reported to Kovalchuk...

 

I think Atlanta's just a better situation for him and sometimes it's better to be on a reasonable loser than a screwed-up situation with a semi-winner.

[nfreeman]

You weren't around a month ago. Just pointing out.

 

Resting on laurels is not how to win a Stanley Cup. Sitting back and hoping Miller can carry this team to a Stanley Cup is a sure fire way to ensure it doesn't happen. This team needs to add offense in a big way. And desperately need to find some type of solutions for the pathetic power play they have. Scoring drops in the playoffs which isn't a good sign for the Sabres. They also need to sure up defensively. If there is a rent-a-player defenseman that can come in at a top four level it would be worth whatever the price. Montador is a OK 6th -7th defenseman. They need to replace Lydman and Rivet is a shell of what he once was. They need face-off help to go along with Gaustad (team only 48.6%). They also need to get far more physical and aggressive. They are dead last in hits and near the bottom on blocked shots and takeaways. That is playoff hockey. Giving up the body. The Sabres have specific players that are willing. That willingness needs to transfer to the entire roster. Teams don't win in the playoffs only because their scorers score and tough guys play tough. They win because their scorers score and play tough and the tough guys play tough and score. I see players like Vanek, Roy, Pominville and Connolly who seem unwilling to play the dirty part of the game. Then there is Stafford and MacArthur who are at there best when they play that dirty playoff style hockey. Problem is consistency. They don't bring it on a regular basis.

While there are plenty of worthy nuggets in this post, you are still missing the boat on the D. The Sabres are #3 in the NHL in goals against per game. You can continue to pretend that it's all Miller if you like, but there is far too much evidence to the contrary. There have plenty of games like the Montreal game where the team D has stifled the opposition. They have also been winning (at least recently) with Lalime.

 

One of your arguments in favor of your position that it's all Miller has been that the Sabres rank low in shots against per game. This is plausible on its face, but the problem is that the stats don't prove the theory. While the Sabres are indeed 22nd in shots against per game and 3rd in goals against, they are also 9th in shots for but only 18th in goals scored per game. Shouldn't they be scoring more if shots were, as you seem to be claiming, an accurate barometer of offensive performance?

 

You also continue to undervalue Montador, who has been a significant contributor this year. Again, you can continue to pretend he's a "6th/7th defenseman," but this position is belied by a few undeniable facts:

 

1. He was a top-4 defenseman on both Anaheim and Boston last year

2. He joined a new team this year, with a new system, that team is #3 in the NHL in defense, and he's #5 among the D in average ice time (and tied for #3 in total minutes) despite playing very little on the PP.

3. He's played every game and hasn't been healthy-scratched.

 

As for Rivet, he's playing over 19 minutes per game for the #3 ranked defense in the NHL and was on the ice for the last minute to protect a one-goal lead against a division rival on the road. Guys who are "a shell" of what they used to be don't get that kind of ice time.

 

I too have real concerns about this team's ability to score and win in the playoffs, and about the likelihood of Roy, TC, Vanek and Pommer completely disappearing in the playoffs. You want a guy like Brenden Morrow or Ryan Smyth in the top 6? Me too. But the defense is solid as a rock.

[deluca67]

While there are plenty of worthy nuggets in this post, you are still missing the boat on the D. The Sabres are #3 in the NHL in goals against per game. You can continue to pretend that it's all Miller if you like, but there is far too much evidence to the contrary. There have plenty of games like the Montreal game where the team D has stifled the opposition. They have also been winning (at least recently) with Lalime.

 

One of your arguments in favor of your position that it's all Miller has been that the Sabres rank low in shots against per game. This is plausible on its face, but the problem is that the stats don't prove the theory. While the Sabres are indeed 22nd in shots against per game and 3rd in goals against, they are also 9th in shots for but only 18th in goals scored per game. Shouldn't they be scoring more if shots were, as you seem to be claiming, an accurate barometer of offensive performance?

 

You also continue to undervalue Montador, who has been a significant contributor this year. Again, you can continue to pretend he's a "6th/7th defenseman," but this position is belied by a few undeniable facts:

 

1. He was a top-4 defenseman on both Anaheim and Boston last year

2. He joined a new team this year, with a new system, that team is #3 in the NHL in defense, and he's #5 among the D in average ice time (and tied for #3 in total minutes) despite playing very little on the PP.

3. He's played every game and hasn't been healthy-scratched.

 

As for Rivet, he's playing over 19 minutes per game for the #3 ranked defense in the NHL and was on the ice for the last minute to protect a one-goal lead against a division rival on the road. Guys who are "a shell" of what they used to be don't get that kind of ice time.

 

I too have real concerns about this team's ability to score and win in the playoffs, and about the likelihood of Roy, TC, Vanek and Pommer completely disappearing in the playoffs. You want a guy like Brenden Morrow or Ryan Smyth in the top 6? Me too. But the defense is solid as a rock.

I would love to see the evidence. You have provided none. The Sabres did play better against the Habs. They also gave up 30 shots and blocked only 8 shots (compared to 16 by the Habs). And Miller played a outstanding game, again. I also have given credit to Lalime for stepping up his game the past few games he has played. If this team doesn;t egt outstanding goaltending they can't win. Not good, outstanding.

 

As far as Montador? Do I have to blowup you argument again?

 

1) He left Anaheim and they improved. He went to Boston and they faltered.

2) He joined a team with a goalie who should win the Vezina and Hart and also has the rookie of the year on the blueline paying 24 minutes.

3) He is a healthy body on a defense where Toni Lydman has been a huge disappointment and Sekera and Butler have battled injuries all year.

 

Montador was supposed to bring grit and toughness to the team. He is a disappointing 10th on the team in hits with 31 (less than 1 per game) and has a 3-1 turnover to takeaway ratio. When all are healthy he and Lydman are the two worst blue-liners they have. Montador fits in well to the Paestch role that now he is hopefully gone.

[shrader]

You also continue to undervalue Montador, who has been a significant contributor this year. Again, you can continue to pretend he's a "6th/7th defenseman," but this position is belied by a few undeniable facts:

 

1. He was a top-4 defenseman on both Anaheim and Boston last year

2. He joined a new team this year, with a new system, that team is #3 in the NHL in defense, and he's #5 among the D in average ice time (and tied for #3 in total minutes) despite playing very little on the PP.

3. He's played every game and hasn't been healthy-scratched.

 

As for Rivet, he's playing over 19 minutes per game for the #3 ranked defense in the NHL and was on the ice for the last minute to protect a one-goal lead against a division rival on the road. Guys who are "a shell" of what they used to be don't get that kind of ice time.

 

The stay at home defenseman is almost always the guy that is ripped on the most by the majority of any fanbase. It's no coincidence that these are the two guys we're talking about here. The fans cry nonstop to bring in a guy like that, but then when he shows up, for some reason they expect something completely different.

[Calvin]

The stay at home defenseman is almost always the guy that is ripped on the most by the majority of any fanbase. It's no coincidence that these are the two guys we're talking about here. The fans cry nonstop to bring in a guy like that, but then when he shows up, for some reason they expect something completely different.

Contrary to popular opinion, Montador is not a stay at home defenseman - just because he doesn't play on the PP doesn't make him 'stay at home'. He leads all Sabres D with 73 SOG, and Myers is second with 42 SOG. Monty is also second in scoring with 12 pts, second only to Myers.

 

Very often we see him leading the rush into the offensive zone, and shows up fighting for the puck deep in the corners as well.

 

I have no issues with Monty's performance so far this season - he was brought in for a purpose and right now is serving that purpose. I have bigger issues with other veterans like Rivet and Lydman who are underperforming with regards to what was expected of them.

[shrader]

Contrary to popular opinion, Montador is not a stay at home defenseman - just because he doesn't play on the PP doesn't make him 'stay at home'. He leads all Sabres D with 73 SOG, and Myers is second with 42 SOG. Monty is also second in scoring with 12 pts, second only to Myers.

 

I have a problem with that label in general. It really isn't a good fit for either guy, but it's the general term thrown out for those guys that fill that physical role. The true stay at home guy might exist somewhere out there, but not with they system Buffalo uses.

[carpandean]

Spector mentioned an article that suggested the Ducks could move veterans Sakku Koivu, Teemu Selanne and Scott Niedermayer if they aren;t in the playoff race (currently 12 points out) by the Olympics. I don't think that Koivu would really be much of an improvement over anyone here, but Selanne and Niedermayer would be nice additions for a cup run. Selanne had a NMC, so he might be tougher to get. Maybe Toni could convince his countryman.

[wonderbread]

Spector mentioned an article that suggested the Ducks could move veterans Sakku Koivu, Teemu Selanne and Scott Niedermayer if they aren;t in the playoff race (currently 12 points out) by the Olympics. I don't think that Koivu would really be much of an improvement over anyone here, but Selanne and Niedermayer would be nice additions for a cup run. Selanne had a NMC, so he might be tougher to get. Maybe Toni could convince his countryman.

speculation at its finest. Koivu and Selanne aren't going anywhere. Neither is Darcy making a splash prior to the deadline. History shows he won't "fix what ain't broken".

[darksabre]

Spector mentioned an article that suggested the Ducks could move veterans Sakku Koivu, Teemu Selanne and Scott Niedermayer if they aren;t in the playoff race (currently 12 points out) by the Olympics. I don't think that Koivu would really be much of an improvement over anyone here, but Selanne and Niedermayer would be nice additions for a cup run. Selanne had a NMC, so he might be tougher to get. Maybe Toni could convince his countryman.

 

I'd take Teemu just for the sole purpose of being able to yell "TEEEEEMMMMUUUUUUU!!!" constantly.

[nfreeman]

I would love to see the evidence. You have provided none. The Sabres did play better against the Habs. They also gave up 30 shots and blocked only 8 shots (compared to 16 by the Habs). And Miller played a outstanding game, again. I also have given credit to Lalime for stepping up his game the past few games he has played. If this team doesn;t egt outstanding goaltending they can't win. Not good, outstanding.

 

As far as Montador? Do I have to blowup you argument again?

 

1) He left Anaheim and they improved. He went to Boston and they faltered.

2) He joined a team with a goalie who should win the Vezina and Hart and also has the rookie of the year on the blueline paying 24 minutes.

3) He is a healthy body on a defense where Toni Lydman has been a huge disappointment and Sekera and Butler have battled injuries all year.

 

Montador was supposed to bring grit and toughness to the team. He is a disappointing 10th on the team in hits with 31 (less than 1 per game) and has a 3-1 turnover to takeaway ratio. When all are healthy he and Lydman are the two worst blue-liners they have. Montador fits in well to the Paestch role that now he is hopefully gone.

Well, I've already demonstrated that # of shots doesn't correlate with good play. As for outstanding goaltending -- is that what they got against Pittsburgh? Lalime played well but that was after Miller had given up 2 soft goals and got yanked.

 

As for Montador leaving Anaheim and joining Boston -- really? That's all you've got? Holding the #4 defenseman accountable for overall team performance? Of course, if you're going to go that route, he also joined the Sabres and they improved. How 'bout that?

 

And when all the Sabres' D are healthy -- you mean like they are now, but Monty is still playing while Sekera sits? Do you think you know better than Lindy as to who should be playing?

 

And the "hit" stat -- do you think that is a reliable barometer of physical play? Do you think Kotalik, who had more hits per game than any forward other than Gaustad or Kaleta, was a tough, physical forward?

 

Contrary to popular opinion, Montador is not a stay at home defenseman - just because he doesn't play on the PP doesn't make him 'stay at home'. He leads all Sabres D with 73 SOG, and Myers is second with 42 SOG. Monty is also second in scoring with 12 pts, second only to Myers.

 

Very often we see him leading the rush into the offensive zone, and shows up fighting for the puck deep in the corners as well.

 

I have no issues with Monty's performance so far this season - he was brought in for a purpose and right now is serving that purpose. I have bigger issues with other veterans like Rivet and Lydman who are underperforming with regards to what was expected of them.

Good post, although I disagree on Rivet and to a lesser extent Lydman.

[Calvin]

Good post, although I disagree on Rivet and to a lesser extent Lydman.

On Rivet: who deserves to be on the PP more, between Rivet and Monty?

[Calvin]

I have a problem with that label in general. It really isn't a good fit for either guy, but it's the general term thrown out for those guys that fill that physical role. The true stay at home guy might exist somewhere out there, but not with the system Buffalo uses.

Agreed - the NJD system has a couple of those, like Paul Martin.

 

A lot of people are saying that the Sabres D is resembling the Devils D more and more - do we need to get some of these stay-at-home folks then? :unsure:

[VansTheMans]

Thanks to this board, I can't see the words "Roy" and "dangle" right next to each other without laughing.

 

Haha. :lol:

 

Didn't even occur to me as I was writing it.

 

Yea, trading Roy would be a dangerous thing (knowing how short we are down the middle). But if we could acquire a winger who could play perfectly in our system (i.e. a skilled power forward who will score and is willing to bang along the boards), it may be a chance worth taking.

 

Connolly, Kennedy, Gaustad would be left as our 3 main centers. Lines would have to be juggled.

[nfreeman]

On Rivet: who deserves to be on the PP more, between Rivet and Monty?

I won't dispute that Monty seems to be niftier with the puck and have more offensive skills, but this isn't a Housley vs. Hajt gap. Rivet isn't the problem on the PP. I'd be fine with seeing more Monty on the PP though.

 

How's that for a straddle?

[spndnchz]

On Rivet: who deserves to be on the PP more, between Rivet and Monty?

 

Montador. Because he shoots the puck. Hammers it or wrists it. And get's it through.

[LabattBlue]

Montador. Because he shoots the puck. Hammers it or wrists it. And get's it through.

:thumbsup:

[deluca67]

On Rivet: who deserves to be on the PP more, between Rivet and Monty?

That they are a option goes a long way to explaining why the Sabres PP is 24th in the league at a lofty 16.2%. This is the first time I actually miss Brian Campbell.

[bob_sauve28]

Contrary to popular opinion, Montador is not a stay at home defenseman -

Not by a long shot! He carries that puck often, if not so well.

[static70]

It matters not if Rivet is better than Montador. What matters is the consistency at which the Buffalo Sabres forwards can apply pressure offensively on their opponents in an effort to bring some relief in the defensive zone and the goaltender, Ryan Miller or Patrick Laliame.

 

Buffalo needs to focus on changing the top 2 lines, in a small way, or big way, in an effort to set a concrete pattern as mentioned above.

 

Let the trades commence, and the sooner the better. Fans want a STANLEY CUP, not some poor excuse as to why we didn't get it.

[static70]

For the record.

 

KOVALCHUCK would be a friggen franchise player, get over it. He is, without a doubt, one of the top 10 players in the league. The real question everyone wants answered are: What would it cost us, both in the trade as well as the contract.

 

Being somewhat realistic, its going to cost us Vanek + MacArthur + prospect (Mancari or Gragnani) and 2nd round pick.

Is this worth Kovalchuck? IF he comes with a 10 year, 10 million dollar contract that is 10 mil a year, flatline.

Ya, this is well worth it. Hands down. You can't put a player at this age, ready to spend that 10 years fighting for the cup, on the back burner, thats just plain stupid.

[Eleven]

For the record.

 

KOVALCHUCK would be a friggen franchise player, get over it. He is, without a doubt, one of the top 10 players in the league. The real question everyone wants answered are: What would it cost us, both in the trade as well as the contract.

 

Being somewhat realistic, its going to cost us Vanek + MacArthur + prospect (Mancari or Gragnani) and 2nd round pick.

Is this worth Kovalchuck? IF he comes with a 10 year, 10 million dollar contract that is 10 mil a year, flatline.

Ya, this is well worth it. Hands down. You can't put a player at this age, ready to spend that 10 years fighting for the cup, on the back burner, thats just plain stupid.

 

I thought we were off of this idea. Are we back on it now?

[shrader]

Do you seriously think the Sabres would want any part of a 10 year contract? Let alone a 10 year contract at $10 million per.

[tom webster]

For the record.

 

KOVALCHUCK would be a friggen franchise player, get over it. He is, without a doubt, one of the top 10 players in the league. The real question everyone wants answered are: What would it cost us, both in the trade as well as the contract.

 

Being somewhat realistic, its going to cost us Vanek + MacArthur + prospect (Mancari or Gragnani) and 2nd round pick.

Is this worth Kovalchuck? IF he comes with a 10 year, 10 million dollar contract that is 10 mil a year, flatline.

Ya, this is well worth it. Hands down. You can't put a player at this age, ready to spend that 10 years fighting for the cup, on the back burner, thats just plain stupid.

 

Mancari and Gragnani are not NHL prospects.

[static70]

Do you seriously think the Sabres would want any part of a 10 year contract? Let alone a 10 year contract at $10 million per.

Sure, anything is possible. Just came off of a 3 hour call with my boys in the 10, they would love it as well. It could be a win/win if done right. But, many people would want Cups with that contract. We think he can help Miller out and deliver.

[static70]

Mancari and Gragnani are not NHL prospects.

Yes they are. There is no reason outside of the Sabres that says they aren't. Singular decisions can be overturned if given to the group at large. If not these 2, then Weber is a viable option.