Trade Target Watch

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Just out of curiosity, what makes you think St. Louis would trade Backes? The only reason people think he's on the market is because supposedly he was in the packaged deal for Kovalchuk that St. Louis offered. Unless the Blues get a star in return, Backes won't be traded.

 

More smoke....fire?

 

If you noticed, I said a guy like Pominville would have to be part of the package. Pominville, Tallinder and a prospect would look good either way to STL. They make the playoffs they get a guy who is playing "like a top 3 defenseman" this year plus a two way forward with more sniper potential. If they miss, Backes has 1 year left on his contract and he may end up dying on the vine there.

[Two or less]

More smoke....fire?

 

If you noticed, I said a guy like Pominville would have to be part of the package. Pominville, Tallinder and a prospect would look good either way to STL. They make the playoffs they get a guy who is playing "like a top 3 defenseman" this year plus a two way forward with more sniper potential. If they miss, Backes has 1 year left on his contract and he may end up dying on the vine there.

 

Pominville, who has 16 goals, good locker room guy, good 2-way forward and still pretty young, Hank, arguably our 2nd best d-men on this team and a prospect for Backes? For a guy who has 1 awesome year in his career? Did you forget that we're the one who should be buyers, not sellers?

 

Some fans really fall in love with a good game here or there. Backes played great against the Swiss. I give you that. He also played decently against the Canadians. I respect that. But, to trade the house for this guy? C'mon on. Enjoy the US games and cheer loud for your country, as i am, but, let's not get carried away.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Pominville, who has 16 goals, good locker room guy, good 2-way forward and still pretty young, Hank, arguably our 2nd best d-men on this team and a prospect for Backes? For a guy who has 1 awesome year in his career? Did you forget that we're the one who should be buyers, not sellers?

 

Some fans really fall in love with a good game here or there. Backes played great against the Swiss. I give you that. He also played decently against the Canadians. I respect that. But, to trade the house for this guy? C'mon on. Enjoy the US games and cheer loud for your country, as i am, but, let's not get carried away.

 

First of all.....you laugh that he can be had because a star player needs to go in return.

 

I point out a top 6 forward would be involoved then you laugh that it is too much.

 

Now....I've only been hanging out for a few weeks here lately, so I don't know your posting style, so i don't know if I am wasting breath.

 

1) this whole thread is BS

2) Backes is a guy I want on my team, not a guy I expect to see play for the Sabres

3) 98% of the fanbase would have given Tallinder away for a Tootsie-pop 3 months ago, and who is a FA anyway

4) Pominville is just like any other Sabre that can be expected to net 20 goals.....a pixie. He is also making 2x Backes' salary

5) None of this matters as Larry Quinn is already preparing the early season ticket renewal notices with "Get Your Free Ryan Miller Team USA Jersey When You Renew By April 1st" to be sent out in 2 weeks if the US wins a gold, so he can sop up the rest of the city's disposable income another year before they figure out this really won't affect the Sabres' chances and that Miller will be in ECMC come April or May after he collapses.

[Two or less]

First of all.....you laugh that he can be had because a star player needs to go in return.

 

I point out a top 6 forward would be involoved then you laugh that it is too much.

 

It's too much, because, we're not sellers. I think Sabres could make a run right now, your trade proposal is "tank now" and "build for the future". I love Backes too, don't get me wrong, but... not ready to destroy the season to get him.

 

Now....I've only been hanging out for a few weeks here lately, so I don't know your posting style, so i don't know if I am wasting breath.

 

I'm a realist.

 

1) this whole thread is BS

 

No it's not.

 

2) Backes is a guy I want on my team, not a guy I expect to see play for the Sabres

 

In a perfect world, me too. Along with Patrick Kane and Evgeni Malkin.

 

3) 98% of the fanbase would have given Tallinder away for a Tootsie-pop 3 months ago, and who is a FA anyway

 

Agreed. What a difference a year makes, eh? Last year, we were fighting for a playoff spot all year and just missed out.... now, we're fighting for the 3rd seed. Crazy how sports works. Tallinder has been excellent all season. He's also been excellent for Sweden. I wouldn't trade him now though. Actually, for the right price, i wouldn't mind seeing him re-signed. Btw, I was one of those fans who hoped we'd Hank for a pick last draft.

 

 

Pommer is a better goal scorer and a better defensive forward. Thus, gets paid more. Pominville is best suited as a 2nd line winger... Backes' NHL career will probably evolve as a 3rd liner.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Help me Jesus............

[TomSmith]

Pominville, who has 16 goals, good locker room guy.

Why do fans claim to know this stuff?

[TomSmith]

Let's see...you want 3 of Florida's best players(even worse if you include Ballard in the deal instead) who are all in their mid 20's and under contract for 3 or more years beyond this season.

 

You either know very little about the Florida players, seriously overvalue MacArthur and Stafford or believe that Florida has the worlds biggest dimwit as their GM.

 

I won't pretend to know exactly what it would take to get 3 of a teams best forwards because it never happens in the NHL, but my guess is that they would be looking at something like this...

 

Pick two...Vanek, Stafford, Pominville, Roy

+ Butler

+ two prospects...Enroth, Weber, Ennis

+ #1 pick

 

Maybe even more?

I agree he undervalued them, but you are even more off the mark in overvaluing them.

[TomSmith]

It really all depends on which "new" direction the Panthers are planing to go. If they see Stafford as a Horton-Lite type player I would think they would pass unless the package of prospects made it worth their while. Right now the asset with the biggest pop is Kassian. Maybe Stafford, Kassian and a first round pick for Horton?

Based on what?

Kassian hasn't even proven he can score in the OHL.

If I was asked which Sabres 1st rounder Kassian resembles most at this stage, I'd have to say Brad May.

 

No, clearly the best prospect the Sabres have in their system at this point is Ennis.

Along with others that have more potential than Kassian.

[LabattBlue]

I agree he undervalued them, but you are even more off the mark in overvaluing them.

I don't think so. Let's see what kind of return they get in separate deals if Florida is true to their word and starts breaking up the team. Look at what some teams get every year for over the hill rentals. These are good young players in their prime who are locked up for 3 or more years.

[Stoner]

Why do fans claim to know this stuff?

 

Good point. Kind of reminds me of the "Best Sabres captain" thread. Fans have no idea what the captains do.

[inkman]

Based on what?

Kassian hasn't even proven he can score in the OHL.

If I was asked which Sabres 1st rounder Kassian resembles most at this stage, I'd have to say Brad May.

 

No, clearly the best prospect the Sabres have in their system at this point is Ennis.

Along with others that have more potential than Kassian.

While statistically this is correct, I still feel Kassian may have the most value, at least to the Sabres. He represents everything they are lacking. Size, toughness, and hopefully scoring. They already have three Tyler Ennis' in Buffalo. They are named Derek Roy, Tim Connolly and Tim Kennedy. I like Ennis and hope he replaces Roy or Connolly, but the Sabres need guys like Kassian and Luke Adam to make it, and make an impact. Maybe it's just me dreaming again...

[TomSmith]

While statistically this is correct, I still feel Kassian may have the most value, at least to the Sabres. He represents everything they are lacking. Size, toughness, and hopefully scoring. They already have three Tyler Ennis' in Buffalo. They are named Derek Roy, Tim Connolly and Tim Kennedy. I like Ennis and hope he replaces Roy or Connolly, but the Sabres need guys like Kassian and Luke Adam to make it, and make an impact. Maybe it's just me dreaming again...

Kassian is in his 3rd year in the OHL and hasn't shown anything that would indicate that's he'll be any kind of scorer in the NHL.

 

As far as Ennis goes this team needs to ADD him to the mix rather than make a lateral move by replacing a current starter with him.

 

Sabres fans seem to be enamored with any player that has size, the true problem with this team is that our so called physical players aren't good at much more than being big.

 

As an example ask a Sabres fan what kind of Dman they'd like to have and the first thing you'll hear is "big tough stay at home", what goes right over their head is the impact players like Rafalski and Lidstrom have.

If the Sabres would have used that Kassian pick on the next Rafalski most fans would've cried about his size from day 1 right up until the day he became an all star, but as long as a player is big or is a thug they're dead certain they have they next Cam Neely in the making.

 

Some of these Sabres fans are even warped enough to think that Paul Gaustad should be playing in the olympics. LOL

[inkman]

As far as Ennis goes this team needs to ADD him to the mix rather than make a lateral move by replacing a current starter with him.

Ahhh, the 4 scoring lines approach. This worked well the last time the Sabres made the playoffs.

[shrader]

Ahhh, the 4 scoring lines approach. This worked well the last time the Sabres made the playoffs.

 

To be fair, if he's ready, I could easily see him fitting into the top 2 since we really only have a "big 4" in Vanek, Roy, Pominville, and Connolly.

[Two or less]

Why do fans claim to know this stuff?

 

Based on interviews, and based on when USA held it's camp for the World Championships few years ago, Stafford, Pommer and Gerbe were invited, Pommer asked to room with Gerbe, to "get to know him" and to try to convince him to sign a pro contract. Maybe i just read inbetween the lines too much, but that seems like a great locker room type guy. Maybe it's just me.

[nfreeman]

Kassian is in his 3rd year in the OHL and hasn't shown anything that would indicate that's he'll be any kind of scorer in the NHL.

 

As far as Ennis goes this team needs to ADD him to the mix rather than make a lateral move by replacing a current starter with him.

 

Sabres fans seem to be enamored with any player that has size, the true problem with this team is that our so called physical players aren't good at much more than being big.

 

As an example ask a Sabres fan what kind of Dman they'd like to have and the first thing you'll hear is "big tough stay at home", what goes right over their head is the impact players like Rafalski and Lidstrom have.

If the Sabres would have used that Kassian pick on the next Rafalski these fans would cry about his size from day 1 right up until the day he became an all star, but as long as a player is big or is a thug they're dead certain they have they next Cam Neely in the making.

 

Some of these Sabres fans are even warped enough to think that Paul Gaustad should be playing in the olympics. LOL

Welcome to the board, but you might consider using a less aggressive tone and foregoing the generic "Sabres fans" straw man. I think if you read the board you'll realize that most of the posters here appreciate the distinction between size and physical play. I also would expect that you'd agree that Kassian, if he makes it, will bring both to the table. This is why most posters here view him as a valuable asset to this organization -- and an especially valuable one in light of the lack of physicality in the Sabres' top 6 forwards.

 

I also think most posters here, unlike the "Sabres fans" you allude to, appreciate good players who aren't physical. For example, no one is complaining about Myers. The point is simply that the Sabres' roster, especially at forward, is a bit unbalanced with too many smaller, non-physical players who are overpaid and are neither hitting nor scoring. No one would be complaining about Pommer or Roy if they were 30-50-80 players, or if they were making $2MM per year. But when they're making $5MM per year, scoring around 21-36-57 with long scoring droughts and getting physically dominated every time they play Ottawa, and there is no one like Lucic or Morrow in the top 6, we get concerned about what will happen in the playoffs, and we don't want to unload one of the few assets in the organization who looks like he will bring an edge to the roster.

 

I agree with you about Ennis and expect to see him on the roster next year.

[TomSmith]

Ahhh, the 4 scoring lines approach. This worked well the last time the Sabres made the playoffs.

I'd say they had 3 scoring lines and yes it worked well.

Far better than the approach that followed it.

 

Three years later we're finally on the path to returning to the playoffs.

But don't get your hopes up about making it anywhere near as far as those ECF teams.

 

You add players like Briere Drury Campbell and Dumont to this team then we're talking a different story.

I don't know what you're perception of the NHL is, but I certainly don't see the Ellis's and Montadors of this league as an improvement over that group.

 

Do you?

I get the impression that you do.

[Two or less]

Based on what?

Kassian hasn't even proven he can score in the OHL.

If I was asked which Sabres 1st rounder Kassian resembles most at this stage, I'd have to say Brad May.

 

No, clearly the best prospect the Sabres have in their system at this point is Ennis.

Along with others that have more potential than Kassian.

 

I absolutely love the potential that Ennis has, but i can't say he's our best prospect right now. I think Luke Adam is our best prospect with Ennis a close second. Adam had a strong WJC, has been a scoring machine in the Q and was injured much of last season so he lost a lot of valuable development time but it doesn't seem to have effected him any. Adam seems to be a more offensively gifted Ryane Clowe due to better hands.

[inkman]

To be fair, if he's ready, I could easily see him fitting into the top 2 since we really only have a "big 4" in Vanek, Roy, Pominville, and Connolly.

Which means Stafford, MacArthur and/or Kennedy will be populating the other lines. While I think this team still has more pluggers than the 06-07 team, adding Ennis alone brings them closer to that team, not farther away.

[TomSmith]

I absolutely love the potential that Ennis has, but i can't say he's our best prospect right now. I think Luke Adam is our best prospect with Ennis a close second. Adam had a strong WJC, has been a scoring machine in the Q and was injured much of last season so he lost a lot of valuable development time but it doesn't seem to have effected him any. Adam seems to be a more offensively gifted Ryane Clowe due to better hands.

Size can play a huge role in junior hockey, sometimes you get big players in junior who live primarily off of driving to the net and jammming it in.

By itself, that rarely translates well to the NHL.

 

Ennis has already proven to be a viable player in the AHL.

Time will tell how complete a game Luke Adam has.

Right now there is plenty of evidence that Ennis has NHL level skills.

[TomSmith]

Which means Stafford, MacArthur and/or Kennedy will be populating the other lines. While I think this team still has more pluggers than the 06-07 team, adding Ennis alone brings them closer to that team, not farther away.

Yes it would bring them closer to that team.

And that's a good thing.

We want to return to being a contender.

[Two or less]

Size can play a huge role in junior hockey, sometimes you get big players in junior who live primarily off of driving to the net and jammming it in.

By itself, that rarely translate well to the NHL.

 

Ennis has already proven to be a viable player in the AHL.

Time will tell how complete a game Luke Adam has.

Right now there is plenty of evidence that Ennis has NHL level skills.

 

I guess. But size plays a bigger role in professional hockey then it does in juniors, and, little players, have a much harder time making it then players with size. Ennis is listed 5'9 and like 160 pounds, but i just saw him out at a bar on Saturday night when the Pirates came to Rochester and i'd be shocked if that was correct. I'm no human scale and had a few beers in me, but, the dude was tiny.

[TomSmith]

I guess. But size plays a bigger role in professional hockey then it does in juniors, and, little players, have a much harder time making it then players with size. Ennis is listed 5'9 and like 160 pounds, but i just saw him out at a bar on Saturday night when the Pirates came to Rochester and i'd be shocked if that was correct. I'm no human scale and had a few beers in me, but, the dude was tiny.

No I cannot agree that size plays a bigger role in the NHL.

When you get players like Adam and Kassian their size advantage in junior is huge.

Put those players in the NHL and size wise they don't stand out from the crowd.

 

It's not easier to make it on size than skill.

Yes there are players in the NHL who are there on size but for every one of them there a dozens ready to take their place, dime a dozen.

 

As far as 1st round picks go skill needs to be the 1st criteria because bigger players and thugs can be picked up left and right off waivers in the NHL.

[inkman]

Do you?

I get the impression that you do.

I have over 6,000 posts. If you read 5 of them, you would know that isn't the case and I'm a giant pervert. Do your homework.

[Two or less]

No I cannot agree that size plays a bigger role in the NHL.

When you get players like Adam and Kassian their size advantage in junior is huge.

Put those players in the NHL and size wise they don't stand out from the crowd.

 

It's not easier to make it on size than skill.

Yes there are players in the NHL who are there on size but for every one of them there a dozens ready to take their place, dime a dozen.

 

As far as 1st round picks go skill needs to be the 1st criteria because bigger players and thugs can be picked up left and right off waivers in the NHL.

 

I agree with you. You even said it yourself. Bigger players have a major advantage in the juniors due to size, but in the NHL, they don't "stand out from the crowd"... i agree. They do have an advantage in juniors. But, smaller players have a major disadvantage in the pros.

 

I have to ask, why do you keep saying "thugs". Kassian made one bad hit. Are players who hit, check, go to the boards, get in front of the net, thugs?

 

And, it's obvious you don't like the draft choice of Kassian, just wondering, who were you hoping for with that #13 pick?