Trade Target Watch

[shrader]

I realize that we're comparing him to Hasek since he was our last goalie, but I really don't see the point there. Hasek was arguably the best there ever was. We might as well be comparing any skater to Wayne Gretzky. Obviously they're not at the same level. That said, it doesn't take the greatest of all time to carry a team. Far lesser goalies have done that already. I'm thinking of guys like Cam Ward and JS Giguere. You just have to get hot at the right time.

 

But then again, I have no idea how we got to this from your statement that Chicago has proven that they would light up Ryan Miller. I guess because you think something would happen makes it fact. I'll have to keep that in mind in the future.

[BetweenThePipes00]

I wonder what you would say if Calgary and/or Toronto become Cup competitive in 2 or 3 seasons while Buffalo sits in the mediocrity position. To be reasonable, fans in Buffalo have waited 40 years for a Cup, and from the organizations stand point, every year should be "The Year" to run for the cup, thats just common sense.

I wouldn't consider it an upset against any team if management makes the moves necessary to put the pieces in place to beat those opponents. I don't see any star studed stellar talent in the current Sabres pipeline thats gonna make a concerted effort to run and gun with Crosby or Ovechkin. No, Kovalchuk is about as close as it comes.

 

You sign him, rental or extension, whatever can be done to improve the teams odds.

Improve the odds from 10% to 15%? That is insanely short-sighted. Like I said ... let's forget a trade, let's just say that they got him for FREE ... Show me the Sabres lineup then as you see it and I will show you a team that still loses to Pittsburgh in the second round. Kovalchuk will still be the third-best player on the ice in that series (at best given he has basically ZERO postseason experience), the Sabres still have no one to deal with Crosby up the middle and their best defenseman will be a 20-year old kid playing the longest season of his life. And then they would have to win two more rounds to win it all. I just do not see it.

 

It's a difference in philosophy ... you will never convince me that it is "reasonable" to insist that EVERY YEAR is THE YEAR, no matter how long we have waited.

 

I agree moves need to be made, but this move is not it. They are not that close.

[BetweenThePipes00]

I'm not on the Kovy boat, but the Thrashers want a top-six forward, a top-four defenseman and a top prospect for Kovalchuk.

 

IMO, we don't have what Atlanta wants. They won't take someone that is UFA or RFA within the next few years. We're not selling Vanek or Pommers or Connolly for a rental. The only top 4 D we truly have for a while is Myers. So who r u sending their way?

 

On puckdaddy today - http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/The-Ilya-Kovalchuk-Derby-and-the-cost-of-winnin?urn=nhl,217651 - it says that the Thrashers asked for Staal or DelZotto, Callahan or Dubinsky plus a prospect plus a pick ... so Myers, Stafford, Kassian and a pick ... for a guy they can't sign ...

I might consider that if Myers was not involved AND they could sign Kovalchuk for like $7 million ... but they would probably have to include Myers and pay him $10 million ... it just doesn't make sense.

[static70]

I'm not on the Kovy boat, but the Thrashers want a top-six forward, a top-four defenseman and a top prospect for Kovalchuk.

 

IMO, we don't have what Atlanta wants. They won't take someone that is UFA or RFA within the next few years. We're not selling Vanek or Pommers or Connolly for a rental. The only top 4 D we truly have for a while is Myers. So who r u sending their way?

Good question, Darcy's answer, I don't know, my answer is compromise. I send Stafford, MacArthur, Rivet or Butler and Gragnani or Gerbe as the prospect for the Rental. That's just for Kovy for 4 months. Expensive? You betchya, is it worth it? Like I said, its a gamble, but I'm willing to take it with the way the team has been playin this season overall. I want to compete with Wash. and Pitt in the East, I make the move.

Would Waddell except that? I honestly don't know, no one actually does at this point. Everything that has been covered on this is mere speculation, no one has reported a concrete offer as of yet. McKenzie and Dregger I'm sure have good sources, but until I hear it from D. Waddell himself, its all hear say.

 

I prefer him signed longterm at 10 mil a season. To do that your going to have to bring back Max or bring in another Russian, Volchenkov?

[static70]

I realize that we're comparing him to Hasek since he was our last goalie, but I really don't see the point there. Hasek was arguably the best there ever was. We might as well be comparing any skater to Wayne Gretzky. Obviously they're not at the same level. That said, it doesn't take the greatest of all time to carry a team. Far lesser goalies have done that already. I'm thinking of guys like Cam Ward and JS Giguere. You just have to get hot at the right time.

 

But then again, I have no idea how we got to this from your statement that Chicago has proven that they would light up Ryan Miller. I guess because you think something would happen makes it fact. I'll have to keep that in mind in the future.

Well shrader, it wasn't a comparison on technique, nor was it meant to offend Miller. The point to be made there was that Hasek had the skill to carry a team to the Stanley Cup Finals, Miller does not. Which means the remainder of the roster will have to be molded to a certain fit to offset that lack of skill.

 

I tend to ignore the smirky comments on opinions offered, you can save the highlight reel, impress my friends by countering this guys post with an attempted put down to make me look smarter than him responses for others.

[Mbossy]

Good question, Darcy's answer, I don't know, my answer is compromise. I send Stafford, MacArthur, Rivet or Butler and Gragnani or Gerbe as the prospect for the Rental. That's just for Kovy for 4 months. Expensive? You betchya, is it worth it? Like I said, its a gamble, but I'm willing to take it with the way the team has been playin this season overall. I want to compete with Wash. and Pitt in the East, I make the move.

Would Waddell except that? I honestly don't know, no one actually does at this point. Everything that has been covered on this is mere speculation, no one has reported a concrete offer as of yet. McKenzie and Dregger I'm sure have good sources, but until I hear it from D. Waddell himself, its all hear say.

 

I prefer him signed longterm at 10 mil a season. To do that your going to have to bring back Max or bring in another Russian, Volchenkov?

 

I do. He'd tell you to go fly a kite.

[shrader]

Well shrader, it wasn't a comparison on technique, nor was it meant to offend Miller. The point to be made there was that Hasek had the skill to carry a team to the Stanley Cup Finals, Miller does not. Which means the remainder of the roster will have to be molded to a certain fit to offset that lack of skill.

 

Obviously it's a matter of opinion, and I'm not a huge Miller fan, but I believe him to be a better goalie than many other goalies who have carried their team to a cup, or at least a cup run. Like I said, it's as much about their abilities as it is showing up at the right time.

[static70]

I do. He'd tell you to go fly a kite.

:D He very well may do that. As stated, no one is sure of anything as of yet.

[static70]

Obviously it's a matter of opinion, and I'm not a huge Miller fan, but I believe him to be a better goalie than many other goalies who have carried their team to a cup, or at least a cup run. Like I said, it's as much about their abilities as it is showing up at the right time.

And I don't disagree with you on this, hence, some of my reasoning as to why it might be the time to grab a guy like Kovy as a rental. Miller is having a very good year, improve the forwards and tighten up the current defense (as was the case in the first half of the season) and I believe this team would give Wash., Pitt., SJ., or Chi. a run for their money.

[nfreeman]

:D He very well may do that. As stated, no one is sure of anything as of yet.

Well, if you assume away the issue, there's no issue.

 

Anyone on this board (or really, anyone with a pulse) would trade MacArthur and Gragnani for Kovy.

 

The issue is whether it's wise to start trading guys that are important pieces of the team's plans for the next 3-5 years for a rental. I'd be OK with trading Pommer and a #1 for him (and I don't think they're going to get much more than that for him). I would not be OK with trading Pommer, Butler and Kassian for him. I would not trade Myers for him under any circumstances.

[rickshaw]

Time for a shakeup of some of the core guys. Stafford, Roy can go bye bye. They've not proven enough but could be sought after by other teams. Lydman must go. He was downright scary last night.

 

Tyler Myers will not be traded. This is one guy they should try to make a lifer in Buffalo.

 

But definitely time to make a few moves.

[rickshaw]

I'm not on the Kovy boat, but the Thrashers want a top-six forward, a top-four defenseman and a top prospect for Kovalchuk.

 

IMO, we don't have what Atlanta wants. They won't take someone that is UFA or RFA within the next few years. We're not selling Vanek or Pommers or Connolly for a rental. The only top 4 D we truly have for a while is Myers. So who r u sending their way?

 

If they could get Kovy for Vanek, and the above mentioned, I'd do it if I were Buffalo.

A) You make your playoff run with the skilled Russian.

B) You get out from under that huge Vanek contract.

 

I'd do that deal if I were Buffalo. You clear up cap space and get a couple of guys making half of Vanek's salary but fit better within the team concept. And who knows, maybe Kovy likes it in Buffalo and re-signs. You never know.

[Mbossy]

Waddell goes public with his offer to Kovalchuk. $101 million over 12 years or $70 million over 7 years. He must really have to sell this trade to the fans of Atlanta.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Waddell goes public with his offer to Kovalchuk. $101 million over 12 years or $70 million over 7 years. He must really have to sell this trade to the fans of Atlanta.

 

 

All 5,600 of them.

[FearTheReaper]

Allow me to pull away from the Kovalchuk specualtion considering it is all merely fantasy talk.

 

Wgr reported today that the Hawks are interested in trading Patrick Sharp for defensive aid. I think Patrick Sharp would be a perfect Sabre. He's skilled, he''s got a great shot, and he has an edge. I think if the Sabres made the right move to acquire Sharp, it might take us to the next level.

 

Heres how i would go about acquiring Sharp.

 

I would send to the Hawks the package of, Lydman, Sekera and a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

In return we get Sharp.

 

Heres a couple quick facts. (All according to NHL numbers)

 

We have almost 2 mil in cap space.

Lydman has a 2.8 mil cap hit.

Sekera has a 1 mil cap hit.

Sharp has a 3.9 mil cap hit and is signed through 2011/2012. (3.3, 4, 4.1, 4.2)

Trading away Lydamn and Sekera would free up almost 4 million in cap space.

Add in our 2 million existing space, and we more than cover Sharp's salary.

And if they dont accpet this, i would give them our 1st round pick this season instead of the 2nd.

I dont think a 1st round pick has much value to this team at this time.

Were not rebuliding anymore. We need to get better now.

And i would even give them next years 1st rounder as well.

 

If thats what it takes to bring a guy in here that would make us immensly more competitive for the next few years, than pull the trigger. What would those picks bring in anyway? We have good prospects in Portland.

 

There you go. I would die if we made this deal. Lydman is probably a goner after this season, and Sekera could become Chicago's offensive dman of the future. I think their system would benefit Sekera. He would have much more freedom to open things up there.

 

Acquiring Sharp would bolster the power of our top 6 and finally give 2 solid scoring lines. Plus he is a left winger. A perfect fit for TC and Pommer.

 

I think this is definetly doable. What do you guys think?

[Taro T]

Well, if you assume away the issue, there's no issue.

 

Anyone on this board (or really, anyone with a pulse) would trade MacArthur and Gragnani for Kovy.

 

The issue is whether it's wise to start trading guys that are important pieces of the team's plans for the next 3-5 years for a rental. I'd be OK with trading Pommer and a #1 for him (and I don't think they're going to get much more than that for him). I would not be OK with trading Pommer, Butler and Kassian for him. I would not trade Myers for him under any circumstances.

I'd much rather part w/ Stafford and the #1 as long as we are going purely hypothetical. I might even throw in Lydman as well. But that is as far as I'd be willing to go to get a rental w/ no history of being able to lead a team to anything.

 

I think the whole thing is moot anyway, and not just because "Darcy doesn't make that kind of trade." I think it is moot because Waddell probably still is ticked about Darcy refusing to lower the asking price on Marty or Mika when Don thought he had a real team coming out of the lockout (no, he didn't, but hey, it is Waddell) and had a huge rash of injuries in net that torpedoed (in his eyes) their season. (Aw, PLEEEEAAAAASE take less than market value for him. You've got 3, and he isn't worth ANYTHING to you. I'm willing to give you a 3rd rounder today for him. Isn't that a SWELL deal? C'mon, PRETTY PLEASE, w/ SUGAR ON IT. OK, Patrick Stefan, but that's my final offer. Did I say PRETTY PLEASE yet? PLEEEEAAAAASE. I'll get you an autographed picture of Randy Mantooth. PLEEEAAASE. Aw, shucks, you're a big doody head Darcy. I'm gonna hold my breath until I turn blue if you don't give me a goalie. Well, I showed you, I didn't put Miller on the Olympic team. That worked out REEEAAAAL well. :doh: )

 

If the Sabres' offer is one of the 2 best, I'd expect Atlanta to send Kovy to the 2nd highest bidder unless Darcy just blows his socks off. And Darcy doesn't make THAT kind of a trade offer.

[FearTheReaper]

If they could get Kovy for Vanek, and the above mentioned, I'd do it if I were Buffalo.

A) You make your playoff run with the skilled Russian.

B) You get out from under that huge Vanek contract.

 

I'd do that deal if I were Buffalo. You clear up cap space and get a couple of guys making half of Vanek's salary but fit better within the team concept. And who knows, maybe Kovy likes it in Buffalo and re-signs. You never know.

 

Vanek, 1st, prospect? But i obviously wouldn't do this if we cant resign Kovy.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Allow me to pull away from the Kovalchuk specualtion considering it is all merely fantasy talk.

 

Wgr reported today that the Hawks are interested in trading Patrick Sharp for defensive aid. I think Patrick Sharp would be a perfect Sabre. He's skilled, he''s got a great shot, and he has an edge. I think if the Sabres made the right move to acquire Sharp, it might take us to the next level.

 

Heres how i would go about acquiring Sharp.

 

I would send to the Hawks the package of, Lydman, Sekera and a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

In return we get Sharp.

 

Heres a couple quick facts. (All according to NHL numbers)

 

We have almost 2 mil in cap space.

Lydman has a 2.8 mil cap hit.

Sekera has a 1 mil cap hit.

Sharp has a 3.9 mil cap hit and is signed through 2011/2012. (3.3, 4, 4.1, 4.2)

Trading away Lydamn and Sekera would free up almost 4 million in cap space.

Add in our 2 million existing space, and we more than cover Sharp's salary.

And if they dont accpet this, i would give them our 1st round pick this season instead of the 2nd.

I dont think a 1st round pick has much value to this team at this time.

Were not rebuliding anymore. We need to get better now.

And i would even give them next years 1st rounder as well.

 

If thats what it takes to bring a guy in here that would make us immensly more competitive for the next few years, than pull the trigger. What would those picks bring in anyway? We have good prospects in Portland.

 

There you go. I would die if we made this deal. Lydman is probably a goner after this season, and Sekera could become Chicago's offensive dman of the future. I think their system would benefit Sekera. He would have much more freedom to open things up there.

 

I think this is definetly doable. What do you guys think?

Love the idea and I have pitched the idea of Lydman in a deal for Sharp before ... but I don't think they would want Sekera ... they have plenty of young D-men (Keith, Seabrook, Barker, Hjalmarsson all 25 or younger) and they are probably stuck with Campbell at $7 million+ for the next six years. It's going to take more, or at least something different. But if they get in on Kovalchuk, that is where Sharp would be going.

 

Again, I love the idea, I just don't think your offer is good enough, from Chicago's standpoint. They could win the Cup this season, and while a vet like Lydman would be nice depth for that run, Sharp is a big part of that team ... need to make it worth their while. If it is just about clearing salary for them, which they will have to do, they can trade Sharp after the playoffs and probably get more than Sekera and a pick ... because that is what they would be left with since Lydman is a rental.

[static70]

Well, if you assume away the issue, there's no issue.

 

Anyone on this board (or really, anyone with a pulse) would trade MacArthur and Gragnani for Kovy.

 

The issue is whether it's wise to start trading guys that are important pieces of the team's plans for the next 3-5 years for a rental. I'd be OK with trading Pommer and a #1 for him (and I don't think they're going to get much more than that for him). I would not be OK with trading Pommer, Butler and Kassian for him. I would not trade Myers for him under any circumstances.

 

It is all assumptive as far as A Kovy trade goes until definitive offers that have been or are going to be put forth are made public.

Remind me again how any of these posts are not assumptive on trades that may or may not take place. I could of course, offer a comprehensive package based on the actual value of the assests involved based solely on their performance and durability records. This should give any management team some clarity as to what the projected worth of such an asset is, this inturn should help them determine a course of action both short and long term as well as an exit strategy.

[Two or less]

Time for a shakeup of some of the core guys. Stafford, Roy can go bye bye. They've not proven enough but could be sought after by other teams. Lydman must go. He was downright scary last night.

 

Tyler Myers will not be traded. This is one guy they should try to make a lifer in Buffalo.

 

But definitely time to make a few moves.

 

 

I wouldn't mind Stafford get traded. He still has a lot of value and could bring in something nice in return and i think he's over stayed his welcome here. Roy? And some other core players. Maybe you're right, i don't know, but, this is NOT the time for such trades. If they trade Roy now, i'll be furious. In the off-season would be ok with me. But, considering what Darcy has always said, you build your team in the summers and just tweak it a bit during the season, i don't expect anything major.

[Two or less]

Vanek, 1st, prospect? But i obviously wouldn't do this if we cant resign Kovy.

 

I know you guys are just kicking the idea around as fantasy trade talk, but Brian Koziol said last night on the post-game report that he's heard from people inside the Sabres front office that Buffalo is not even considering in calling Atlanta about Kovalchuk.

[Mbossy]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=308800

 

Kovalchuk to be traded very soon.

 

Boston, New Jersey, Rangers, Philadelphia, Calgary, Chicago and L.A. all in the hunt.

 

Fixed. Chiarelli just said "I don't want to make a deal just for the sake of making a deal. There's 1 player that everybody is talking about...and I'm not gonna do it"

[BetweenThePipes00]

It is all assumptive as far as A Kovy trade goes until definitive offers that have been or are going to be put forth are made public.

Remind me again how any of these posts are not assumptive on trades that may or may not take place. I could of course, offer a comprehensive package based on the actual value of the assests involved based solely on their performance and durability records. This should give any management team some clarity as to what the projected worth of such an asset is, this inturn should help them determine a course of action both short and long term as well as an exit strategy.

 

 

I am confused ... are you saying that there is no point getting into specifics of who could be traded for Kovalchuk because we are all just speculating? If you COULD "offer a comprehensive package based on the actual value of the assests involved based solely on their performance and durability records. This should give any management team some clarity as to what the projected worth of such an asset is, this inturn should help them determine a course of action both short and long term as well as an exit strategy," I would like to see it ... you never know, you might convince us. Because just saying over and over they should get Kovalchuk obviously has not worked.

 

And by the way, while no offers TO Atlanta have been made public, there has been a report of a DEMAND from Atlanta .. Larry Brooks of the NY Post says that the Thrashers asked the Rangers for Staal or DelZotto, Callahan or Dubinsky plus a prospect plus a pick ... so there is your starting point.

[LabattBlue]

Ek...the gift that just keeps on giving. He titles an article today "Time to Exhale on Kovalchuk", and then goes on to write a dissertation on the subject. Plus, the "I'm Very Important" bluetooth references are priceless...

 

 

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Time-to-Exhale-On-Kovalchuk--This-may-take-a-while--Olympics-at-Risk/1/26033

[X. Benedict]

Funny that he goes on waivers now, because when I saw the Boynton post my immediate reaction was that the poor man's Brendan Witt was now available. Disregarding salary hits, I now see absolutely no one wanting Boynton - why get even slower version of thuggish pylon when the original (sorry Darien, but you've been out of the league long enough that the mantle has been passed) is available?

 

For the record, I don't see anyone wanting Witt either.

 

Is Hal Gill getting nervous?

 

:lol: