Is Lindy Ruff the new Marv Levy?

[Eleven]

So if, say, they get to the 2nd round of the playoffs and lose to Pittsburgh in 6 games, you think Darcy and Lindy should be fired? Only 4 teams get to the 3rd round -- should 26 teams fire their coach and GM?

 

As for the 12 years -- as I've said before, isn't it appropriate to consider the various crapstorms that Darcy and Lindy have had to deal with through no fault of their own (owners jailed, team going bankrupt, NHL taking over team, team sold, loss of Dominik, loss of Peca, loss of Drury and Briere, etc.)? I'd like to see an unbroken series of deep playoff runs too -- but NJ and Detroit haven't had to deal with any of those seismic events.

 

And still, the "final four" one third of the time and a Presidents' Trophy.

 

But if for some reason they don't make the playoffs this year, yes, I will want a change.

[nfreeman]

But if for some reason they don't make the playoffs this year, yes, I will want a change.

Me too.

[wjag]

Lindy is lucky that Lou Lamoriello is not our GM.

Every coach is lucky Lou isn't their GM. Is there a more egotistical GM in all of sports?

[Stoner]

And still, the "final four" one third of the time and a Presidents' Trophy.

 

But if for some reason they don't make the playoffs this year, yes, I will want a change.

 

Is that all you demand as a fan? What if they squeak in and get swept?

[Stoner]

So if, say, they get to the 2nd round of the playoffs and lose to Pittsburgh in 6 games, you think Darcy and Lindy should be fired? Only 4 teams get to the 3rd round -- should 26 teams fire their coach and GM?

 

As for the 12 years -- as I've said before, isn't it appropriate to consider the various crapstorms that Darcy and Lindy have had to deal with through no fault of their own (owners jailed, team going bankrupt, NHL taking over team, team sold, loss of Dominik, loss of Peca, loss of Drury and Briere, etc.)? I'd like to see an unbroken series of deep playoff runs too -- but NJ and Detroit haven't had to deal with any of those seismic events.

 

I wouldn't include losing top players as part of a crapstorm. That's just a reality of professional sports.

[Eleven]

Is that all you demand as a fan? What if they squeak in and get swept?

 

That is not all I demand as a fan. (How did my statement imply that?!) If they squeak in and get swept, I think it depends on the circumstances. If they squeak in because of a string of post-deadline losses due to injuries and get swept because of the same post-deadline injuries, I'm going to be a little more forgiving than if they tank in January, don't make the necessary adjustments in March, and squeak in and get swept for failing to make adjustments.

[SwampD]

Well, there are those who believe that Lindy was not on board with the TC extension, and that the Sabres were forced, through front office incompetence, to give Vanek $50MM at far too early an age (instead of, say, a 3- or 4-year deal at a much lower number that would be winding down this year or next year and presumably inspiring him to play harder so he could strike gold in his next contract).

 

As for Pommer and Roy, I think Lindy probably likes them well enough, but that doesn't mean he thought they were capable of being his horses or that he wanted to commit $5.3MM per year and a top-line slot to Pommer.

 

When you look at Pommer and Roy, do you see elite NHL talents that could be blossoming under a different coach? I'm not being sarcastic. I look at them and see undersized guys with good hockey sense and skills who are good complementary players, but who don't have the ability to be real top-line studs.

I do. Pominville's got the same size and skill set as Zetterburgh and I think he is way too talented to play as lacklusterly(?) as he does.

 

If the Sabres won a cup, I would love it to be under Ruff. I just think he would have to change more than what he has told us he has changed this year in order for that to happen. And for me it's about the Xs and Os, not how he motivates players.

 

 

 

 

But if for some reason they don't make the playoffs this year, yes, I will want a change.

 

 

Me too.

:lol:

[BuffaloBill]

Ryff inheriteed a mediocre, over achievinhg team that rode Hasek into the playoffs only to be "punked" by the Flyers in the second round when hasek wasn't there to bail them out. He turned them into a team that made the conference finals the next year and the finals the year after that.

He then adjusted ahead of everyone after the lock out to lead the team to two conference finals appearances when they were picked to be an also ran.

Ruff is 19th all time in NHL wins, has a .592 playoff percentage and is 86 games over .500.

As I said, Ruff isn't perfect, but don't diminish his record to fit your agenda.

 

 

Agree - Ruff also dod not create the fronto office disasters that resulted in talent drain. I also admire him for his flexibility he has won with different styles of play.

[JJFIVEOH]

I'll come back to this thread if the Sabres free fall to 9th. Until then, Lindy is the man in my book.

 

Thank you! Nobody can point out one team that does not have issues. There are no teams that are ruining away from anybody. There are no strong teams who haven't lost to weak teams. There are no superstars who haven't or will not go through slumps by seasons end. The NHL wanted parity and they got it. The bad thing about trading top players is they may not receive a player who will perform like you may have wanted. The good thing about having our core players together is Ruff knows what he is working with, the other players know each other, and the more games they play the more Ruff can nitpick about other players' weak points. Yeah, sometimes it is aggravating when I watch the Sabres play and our lesser known scorers are within 2-4 goals of the team lead. But consider this, the team may be in a slump right now yet we're still playing above .500 since our hot streak to start the season. Not bad for a team that's not on a hot streak. Every team will go through their hot and cold streaks and to keep them playing at or above .500 when they are down says a lot about a coach. Complain all you want about our top scorers not performing to their potential right now, but having a balanced scoring team will help in the long run. There are many teams that would be devastated if they lost their top player. We don't have a top player so if/when we lost one of them it will not affect them as much.

[Eleven]

I wouldn't include losing top players as part of a crapstorm. That's just a reality of professional sports.

 

You must be new to crapstorms.

[Stoner]

Here's some food for thought.

• The Pens scored 2.93 goals per game in the 07-08 regular season and the 08-09 regular season up until they hired Bylsma.
• After Bylsma, through the end of the regular season, they scored 3.64.
• They're down this year, to 3.10, but maybe scoring is down overall, since 3.10 still has the Pens near the top of the league in that category.
• People have been talking about Crosby's production going up under the new coach. Here's a story written on December 2. Since then, Crosby has scored six goals in 10 games. http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/penguins/s_655799.html

[nfreeman]

Here's some food for thought.

• The Pens scored 2.93 goals per game in the 07-08 regular season and the 08-09 regular season up until they hired Bylsma.
• After Bylsma, through the end of the regular season, they scored 3.64.
• They're down this year, to 3.10, but maybe scoring is down overall, since 3.10 still has the Pens near the top of the league in that category.
• People have been talking about Crosby's production going up under the new coach. Here's a story written on December 2. Since then, Crosby has scored six goals in 10 games. http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/penguins/s_655799.html

You've drawn this comparison before. As I said previously, do you look at TC, Pommer and Vanek and see Malkin, Crosby and Staal? Not to mention that Gonchar (i) is a much better offensive defenseman than anyone on the Sabres and (ii) was hurt most of last season and returned to the lineup shortly after Bylsma was hired?

 

The essence of obtuseness is willfully ignoring critical facts that cut against one's argument.

[static70]

At the end of the day, Lindy Ruff is not responsible for 3 ECF appearances and a Presidents Trophy.

It was pointed out in articles last season. Even some of the players that have left have pointed it out as well.

Outside of the Hasek years Ruff has only seen the playoffs 2 times. Both times were with Drury and Briere at the helm.

In no way, shape or form do I give any credit to the playoff runs in those 2 years to Ruff, same goes for the presidents trophy. It was all Drury and Briere leading the team and their fellow hockey players.

Same goes for the Hasek years, it was all Dom, Ruff was just an after thought.

 

To even state that Ruff has accomplished anything is a stretch at that. Without those players, Buffalo could literally be looking at a solid 12 year run without a playoff appearance, never mind the very reason you play the game is to win a championship. It was never, never, never Ruff's coaching, it was the talent that was on hand that did bring what little success this team has had in Ruff's tenure as coach.

[Stoner]

You've drawn this comparison before. As I said previously, do you look at TC, Pommer and Vanek and see Malkin, Crosby and Staal? Not to mention that Gonchar (i) is a much better offensive defenseman than anyone on the Sabres and (ii) was hurt most of last season and returned to the lineup shortly after Bylsma was hired?

 

The essence of obtuseness is willfully ignoring critical facts that cut against one's argument.

 

Why do you continue to do it then? That is the essence of obdoucheness.

[end the curse]

Why do you continue to do it then? That is the essence of obdoucheness.

 

I may disagree with you your opinion, but for incorporating the word "obdoucheness" into your post I give you huge LOL props!! :lol:

[JJFIVEOH]

At the end of the day, Lindy Ruff is not responsible for 3 ECF appearances and a Presidents Trophy.

It was pointed out in articles last season. Even some of the players that have left have pointed it out as well.

Outside of the Hasek years Ruff has only seen the playoffs 2 times. Both times were with Drury and Briere at the helm.

In no way, shape or form do I give any credit to the playoff runs in those 2 years to Ruff, same goes for the presidents trophy. It was all Drury and Briere leading the team and their fellow hockey players.

Same goes for the Hasek years, it was all Dom, Ruff was just an after thought.

 

To even state that Ruff has accomplished anything is a stretch at that. Without those players, Buffalo could literally be looking at a solid 12 year run without a playoff appearance, never mind the very reason you play the game is to win a championship. It was never, never, never Ruff's coaching, it was the talent that was on hand that did bring what little success this team has had in Ruff's tenure as coach.

 

And what have Drury and Briere accomplished since?

[Mbossy]

At the end of the day, Lindy Ruff is not responsible for 3 ECF appearances and a Presidents Trophy.

It was pointed out in articles last season. Even some of the players that have left have pointed it out as well.

Outside of the Hasek years Ruff has only seen the playoffs 2 times. Both times were with Drury and Briere at the helm.

In no way, shape or form do I give any credit to the playoff runs in those 2 years to Ruff, same goes for the presidents trophy. It was all Drury and Briere leading the team and their fellow hockey players.

Same goes for the Hasek years, it was all Dom, Ruff was just an after thought.

 

To even state that Ruff has accomplished anything is a stretch at that. Without those players, Buffalo could literally be looking at a solid 12 year run without a playoff appearance, never mind the very reason you play the game is to win a championship. It was never, never, never Ruff's coaching, it was the talent that was on hand that did bring what little success this team has had in Ruff's tenure as coach.

 

Whatever you are smokin', it must be good. :lol:

[DR HOLLIDAY]

At the end of the day, Lindy Ruff is not responsible for 3 ECF appearances and a Presidents Trophy.

It was pointed out in articles last season. Even some of the players that have left have pointed it out as well.

Outside of the Hasek years Ruff has only seen the playoffs 2 times. Both times were with Drury and Briere at the helm.

In no way, shape or form do I give any credit to the playoff runs in those 2 years to Ruff, same goes for the presidents trophy. It was all Drury and Briere leading the team and their fellow hockey players.

Same goes for the Hasek years, it was all Dom, Ruff was just an after thought.

 

To even state that Ruff has accomplished anything is a stretch at that. Without those players, Buffalo could literally be looking at a solid 12 year run without a playoff appearance, never mind the very reason you play the game is to win a championship. It was never, never, never Ruff's coaching, it was the talent that was on hand that did bring what little success this team has had in Ruff's tenure as coach.

 

They looked a whole heck of a lot better playing for Ruff then against him, LMAO.......... :beer:

[static70]

Well, take it at face value. Ruff did not make Drury or Briere successful, nor is he responsible for their current playing abilities or lack thereof. It was merely a matter of chemistry. This team needed a leader, Drury and Briere provided that leadership. Very true that both players have not had success with their new teams, just the right fit here, which also speaks volumes on this coach/gm tandem. Its a failure of massive proportions that these 2 players left, and Lindy is as directly responsible as Darcy. After all, the coach does give input to the GM on whether or not to keep players and the reasons as to why. The following 2 seasons since their absence speaks volumes on that.

 

As for this season, same core roster, but the division opponents have each had significant roster moves which puts them in a temporary position of weakness.

 

As for the years prior to Drury and Briere, once again, no success found except Hasek and he was brought in prior to the Reiger/Ruff era in Buffalo. Remind me again why Ruff is the greatest thing in Buffalo since sliced bread?

[DR HOLLIDAY]

Well, take it at face value. Ruff did not make Drury or Briere successful, nor is he responsible for their current playing abilities or lack thereof. It was merely a matter of chemistry. This team needed a leader, Drury and Briere provided that leadership.

 

You must be right, coaches have nothing to do with chemistry......... :rolleyes:

[static70]

You must be right, coaches have nothing to do with chemistry......... :rolleyes:

Don't be angry over my ability to see it as it is. We'd all like to live in a world where Buffalo has an actual shot at competing for the Cup. :thumbsup:

[BetweenThePipes00]

You wanted my short list, you already have it. As I stated I look at the reality of who can be had.

 

 

OK, so it's Kovalchuk or bust, basically.

 

Lindy Ruff in Buffalo = no Eastern European talent signs with Buffalo due to his reputation to stifle a style of play. How do we know this is true? Because a few of these players have spoken up about it, well now, thats not a good sign.

 

Who are these players from Eastern Europe you ask? Only the current best talent in the league, including Kovalchuck.

From my point of view, as a fan, it is down right disconcerting that this is this case.

Again, I think you are trying make Kovalchuk=All Eastern Europeans because you REALLY want Kovalchuk, but whatever. For the sake of argument, I will even grant you this, OK? You win. Fire Lindy Ruff.

 

I think the most important thing you tend to loose sight of when you attempt to corner my posting as half-hearted, or in a non-academic setting for hockey is the facts before us, low output in the goals department half way into the season isn't a funk or a bad run. Quite frankly, this team is horrible offensively, Miller appears primed, the defense appears solid enough. The reality of the situation is this Buffalo squad will not take down Wash. or Pitt in the playoffs. They will be fortunate to maintain their divisional 1st place standing.

True, the Sabres are not as good as Washington or Pittsburgh offensively. (Then again. neither is New Jersey. Should they scrap what they have going and go after Kovalchuk? They have scored just one more goal than the Sabres this season when you remove the "goals" for shootout wins.) But if they fired Lindy Ruff today and traded for Kovalchuk tomorrow, would they suddenly be in a class with Pittsburgh and Washington? Depending on who was traded to get him, how fast will they adjust to this new offensive system you favor? Is this just the first step in blowing it all up and starting from scratch? Are they taking a step back to build this offensive team around Kovalchuk that can win it all two years from now? You say the defense "appears solid enough," but they are playing Ruff's system. What if they suck in the new system?

 

Which reminds me ... you advocate some sort of offensive system to lure an offensive player you might not get anyway, but what about the fact that your franchise player - Miller - is THRIVING and you might alienate him with such a move. Again, we have hypothetically agreed to fire Ruff, but putting ANY kind of new system in place just to lure one guy who MIGHT come without considering Miller (and Tyler Myers, for that matter, since he is probably the singular most important guy in the organization right now) is shortsighted.

 

If you make the changes needed in personell sure you run a risk of getting a product that may be a dud. But I highly doubt Kovalchuck is a dud. And why do I tout him? Because he is on his way to free agency, he can be had and longterm with a high paid, longterm contract. He instantly elevates the play of those around him by his own skills. He is a clutch player in clutch situations.

You have absolutely zero proof of this. None. If he makes players around him so much better, why hasn't he been able to get them to the playoffs more than once? If he is so clutch, why did he score one goal and add just one assist as they got swept in that one playoff appearance? All we really know about him to this point is that he can put up big numbers on bad teams. And even if I agreed that he was a clutch player, what if they do not get him? What if he insists on testing the market and goes to Dallas or Colorado or something? This is why I asked for a list, because you are putting all your eggs in this basket and you are pretty screwed if he is not on board.

 

Buy hey, ya know, alot of people tend to have player loyalty. I have none of that nonsense left in me. My loyalty is to the team itself, not any individual player.

Except Kovalchuk, of course. Because you have no plan if you can't get him.

 

As for what coach needs to be here, well, the hard, cold facts of the situation is a reality that apperantly hasn't hit you as of yet. The reason they play the game is to win "Lord Stanley's Cup". I don't know what you think this game is about, but to every single one of the fans I know personally, they are all in agreeance on this.

 

Both Lindy Ruff and Darcy Reiger have had 11 going on 12 seasons to complete this task, in that time other teams have won it by building their rosters not only from within the organization, but have also brought in talent through trades and Free Agency to win a Championship.

In other words, standing pat on this current roster is not an option, and that is what Lindy and Darcy are touting. They will not win a championship in the forseeable future with this philosophy, its time for them to go, its been time for them to go. Hell, bring back Ted Nolan if you want, but these 2 guys have had their chance I say.

Wait ... huh? ... I thought it had to be "someone talented Eastern Europeans will like playing for." Do you remember Ted Nolan?

You have completely lost me now. I thought it was a bad plan because I do not believe in Kovalchuk like you do, nor do I believe that they could get him even if he was the next Mark Messier when it came to clutch. But at least you were making a case. In the end, we are back to "Anyone is better than Lindy and Darcy."

 

I can't believe I replied to all this without reading the very end. I could have saved myself some time. But I typed it all so ... what the hell, I am posting it. I'll take Ruff and Regier, you take Ted Nolan and Kovalchuk. maybe neither of us will win anything, but I'll take my chances.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

Don't be angry over my ability to see it as it is. We'd all like to live in a world where Buffalo has an actual shot at competing for the Cup. :thumbsup:

 

Nope not angry because you have no ability, your posts are mildly interesting but most full of BS that has no basis in reality....... :beer:

[nfreeman]

Well, take it at face value. Ruff did not make Drury or Briere successful, nor is he responsible for their current playing abilities or lack thereof. It was merely a matter of chemistry. This team needed a leader, Drury and Briere provided that leadership. Very true that both players have not had success with their new teams, just the right fit here, which also speaks volumes on this coach/gm tandem. Its a failure of massive proportions that these 2 players left, and Lindy is as directly responsible as Darcy. After all, the coach does give input to the GM on whether or not to keep players and the reasons as to why. The following 2 seasons since their absence speaks volumes on that.

 

As for this season, same core roster, but the division opponents have each had significant roster moves which puts them in a temporary position of weakness.

 

As for the years prior to Drury and Briere, once again, no success found except Hasek and he was brought in prior to the Reiger/Ruff era in Buffalo. Remind me again why Ruff is the greatest thing in Buffalo since sliced bread?

I think it's fair to say that with Drury and Briere (and Soupy and Miller), Lindy again built a team that leaned on and got maximum return out of his best players. Those guys are not Malkin and Crosby (or Kovalchuk or Zetterberg or Datsyuk or Staal or a lot of other guys), but Lindy got a heck of a lot, in terms of production and leadership, and definitely clutch scoring, out of both of them. They fit the mix that Lindy and Darcy created beautifully. Really, the same is true of the Hasek era. That team was Hasek and a bunch of string and rubber bands -- just like it was under Nolan, but it was Lindy that got them to the conf. finals and then the finals.

 

It was indeed a failure of massive proportions to have lost those guys, but you start to veer off the cliff with blaming Darcy and Lindy for losing them. Quinn has essentially admitted that he and TG were the ones responsible for that particular debacle.

 

I agree on many conference opponents having significant roster moves that have set them back. It's worth noting here that many posters were pushing hard to blow the whole thing up, just like those awesome GMs in Toronto, Montreal, NYC and Tampa, and ready to run Darcy out of town on a rail.

 

Don't be angry over my ability to see it as it is. We'd all like to live in a world where Buffalo has an actual shot at competing for the Cup. :thumbsup:

The Sabres had a great shot at it in 2006 and a very good shot at it in 2007. With three or four better front-office moves, they'd have stayed in the hunt in the subsequent 2 years instead of missing the playoffs. Now they're looking like a very good team again that needs a good forward (or one of their own guys to effing step up already) to get to elite level.

[deluca67]

Thank heavens for the thin blue line that protects us all from the lunatics out there.

 

A few points:

 

1. The Sabres probably aren't good enough to beat Pittsburgh in the playoffs.

 

2. The Sabres are good enough to beat Washington in the playoffs (although it would be an upset). The Rangers would've beaten them in the first round last year if Tortorella hadn't outsmarted himself and Lundy hadn't fallen off the table. Guys like Backstrom, Semin and Green haven't proven themselves in the playoffs yet.

 

3. Carolina isn't going to trade Staal.

 

4. The Sabres aren't going to trade for Kovalchuk without a signed extension in place.

 

5. The theory that the only reason the Sabres are winning this year is that Miller is standing on his head in every game, and that Lindy therefore has nothing to do with the Sabres' strong points this year, is nonsense. Frankly, it's a terrible theory, and materially worse than "the Sabres haven't won the Cup, so Lindy should go" (which is also a bad theory, but at least has a modicum of rational thought attached to it).

 

Leaving aside the fact that Lalime is 2-0-1 in his last 3, there is the simple fact that first-place teams on pace to score 108 points don't win games with hot goalies and nothing else. The odd game here or there? Yes, a goalie can take over and win it. But not half a season.

 

6. Defense wins championships. Pittsburgh, who is as loaded as anyone, won the Cup last year with Fleury playing extremely well and by scoring a bunch of down-and-dirty goals -- not with Malkin and Crosby "running and gunning."

 

7. I'll ask this again to anyone in the "fire Lindy" crowd: is there a top 10 NHL team with a 1-2 center combination as weak as TC-Roy? Is there a top 10 NHL team with a top-4 group of forwards as weak as TC-Roy-Pommer-Vanek?

 

8. Finally, DeLuca, I've read a lot of your posts on this board over the years. Your equating of Jauron and Levy is probably the all-time worst one. There's much that can be said about this, but suffice it to say that Levy's teams never, EVER, lost games like the 1st Patriots game this year or the Dallas night game last year.

And if Jouron had a roster full of Hall of Famers neither would his teams. A team that was loaded on both sides of the ball and they can't get it done? Barry Switzer was handed a team of Hall of Famers and had no trouble winning a Super Bowl. I get it, Marv is a nice guy with funny and smart quotes. That's where the accolades need to end.