GAME DISCUSSION THREAD

[darksabre]

Stop messing with my mind so late. Not fair.

 

I just don't see how you can get in MacArthur's mind. Sometimes it is obvious. You've cited perhaps the most over the top example in NHL history. Most times intent can't be discerned, which is why Roby makes a great point.

 

How do jurors get inside a defendant's head? Through their actions. Intent had nothing to do with thoughts, it has to do with actions that yield a result. MacArthur made a play that is widely accepted in hockey, and did it without unusual force. As far as I am concerned, that is enough to disprove intent to injure. He intended to make an athletic play for the puck, and as a result of this intent, Reddox was injured. An injury as a result of a legitimate hockey play is not solely the fault of the uninjured player. Hockey is a contact sport that moves at a fast pace and injury is an accepted consequence of playing the game. Players get hurt all the time, and it's no one's fault except for stepping on the ice that night.

 

My issue is that Roby doesn't understand how intent is determined.

 

In my opinion, Reddox took a very reckless angle towards the puck with MacArthur racing him to the wall. He dipped his back towards Mac, who pushed off against him to create the big impact.

 

Players need to realize that despite the fact they are wearing enough body armor to survive machine gun fire, they are still very vulnerable to impact injuries to the head. A player needs to know he can't twist his back towards a player while heading full speed into the boards...it's this false sense of invincibility that's causing way too many dangerous injuries in the NHL today.

 

Excellent post. Spot on.

[Eleven]

Dear Derek Roy,

 

If you think your stick is being held, don't just stop playing and wave your arms around like a whiny bitch. It's not going to convince the ref to call a penalty, so you might as well just save it and get back to playing hockey, you know...like a professional.

 

Thanks.

 

Amen. And sharpen your freaking skates, while you're at it.

 

 

What's wrong with that call? A guy gets legitimately hooked, then embellishes it. I've never understood why people get their noses out of joint on that one.

 

That Montador's got a nice offensive touch. :)

 

I've seen hooking/diving, and I get it; I've seen tripping/diving, and I get it; but I've never understood holding/diving, which is how it was announced at the Arena, and I don't get it.

 

 

And of course the typical NHL idiot player tried to attack MacArthur while he was on top of the injured player. It couldn't have been any more clear that MacArthur was worried and checking on the guy. Nice work by the linesman preventing that from going any further.

 

As a couple of other pointed out, you're right. He definitely was worried, maybe even scared. The arena went nearly silent. Which brings me to...

 

 

Did you hear that. that was the crowd.. first time tonight they've come alive... killed 3:30 so far..

 

No it wasn't. I really think that the MSG folks aren't picking up the crowd noise, at this point. There have been a number of these observations on this board this season, and I don't think they're correct. The crowd might be discouraged by the piped-in music and stuff (if anyone from the Arena is reading, please understand that that CRAP does not help or add to the fun), but I've been to five games so far, and the Arena still gets loud when something actually happens--not necessarily a goal or a penalty, either. It was loud during the first when the Sabres put on pressure, it was loud during the second when the Sabres killed penalties for whatever the hell the refs thought they could call, and it was loud as soon as the puck dropped after the MacArthur penalty. Playoff loud? No. But it's not the playoffs. And there were more Edmonton fans there than I would have expected--it didn't look like a Montreal or Toronto game, but it did look like a Filly or Pittsburgh game.

[nfreeman]

Good thoughts. But Kennedy? It's tough to find forwards with less shorthanded ice time this year than Vanek, but he's one of them. You'll have to tell Lindy that Kennedy has something to offer the PK. And Drew Stafford had killed 11 seconds all season, but he got some time on that kill.

 

This was about humiliating Vanek. As was putting him out with 19 seconds left.

Here's an alternative theory: vanek made a number of brain-dead plays, but he skated better this game and having TC at center lifted both him and Stafford. Lindy chose vanek to serve the penalty on the hope he'd get a breakaway coming out of the box, and had him out at the end to break the ice with an empty-netter.

[Eleven]

Good thoughts. But Kennedy? It's tough to find forwards with less shorthanded ice time this year than Vanek, but he's one of them. You'll have to tell Lindy that Kennedy has something to offer the PK. And Drew Stafford had killed 11 seconds all season, but he got some time on that kill.

 

This was about humiliating Vanek. As was putting him out with 19 seconds left.

 

There were four unfortunate situations involving Vanek tonight, two of which were beyond his control. Two penalty calls were legit. One was bogus, and then, after the third penalty, Vanek rushed onto the ice, brought the puck out of the zone, flipped it up ice, and ... icing, because no one was there and the puck dribbled across the goal line.

 

At this point, I turned to my friend and told her, "wow, if Vanek wasn't dead after the six minutes in the box, Lindy's going to kill him now."

 

I think you're dead on with the above. Didn't most of us think that Vanek was pretty damned good on the PK last year? I do think something is going on, and I hope they resolve it soon. Vanek is a talent, and Ruff is a good coach. And I'm a big, big Ruff fan, but if there are two things he does wrong, they are these: (1) mismanage the backup goaltending, and (2) get too pissed off at the offensive talent. I've never seen Vanek as a primadonna, and I don't think he's one now. He's more Ovie than Cindy (although he isn't as talented as either of them, and Crosby does wear nicer dresses). Unless there's something going on behind the scenes that we don't know about (which certainly is a possibility), I've got to think that Ruff might be screwing up this relationship.

[...]

No it wasn't. I really think that the MSG folks aren't picking up the crowd noise, at this point. There have been a number of these observations on this board this season, and I don't think they're correct. The crowd might be discouraged by the piped-in music and stuff (if anyone from the Arena is reading, please understand that that CRAP does not help or add to the fun), but I've been to five games so far, and the Arena still gets loud when something actually happens--not necessarily a goal or a penalty, either. It was loud during the first when the Sabres put on pressure, it was loud during the second when the Sabres killed penalties for whatever the hell the refs thought they could call, and it was loud as soon as the puck dropped after the MacArthur penalty. Playoff loud? No. But it's not the playoffs. And there were more Edmonton fans there than I would have expected--it didn't look like a Montreal or Toronto game, but it did look like a Filly or Pittsburgh game.

 

Excellent. I've been to four games this year so far. The crowds at HSBC are a lot more hockey-sophisticated than your average stay-at-home-numb-nut will give them credit for. Usually, the crowd is into it until the Sabres either:

 

A. get scored on first

B. are in full lack-of-effort mode

C. both A and B

D. the game is boring

E. both C and D

 

If the Sabres are leading heading into the second or third, the crowd is usually right there. If the Sabres start to suck, the crowd is right there yelling at them. If the suck is prolonged; they become quiet. If they aren't sure how the game is going to end, as in, they're winning, but they're sucking, they're tensely quiet.

 

I mean, having been to games consistently now for the past several seasons, I don't get the crowd-is-not-into it criticism. People don't want the blasting music, they don't want to be encouraged to "Make Some Noise!" by a super large TV, they don't need an eight-goal blow-out; the crowd is always happy and into the game simply when the Sabres are playing well.

 

They don't even have to be winning! Even a just a hearty effort puts the crowd into it. The HSBC crowds get it. And the team can't fake it out there.

 

For this game, which I was not at, I could tell (by hearing it on the TV) the crowd was into it for the full first period, and then near during the last five minutes of the game.

 

Maybe the people who harp on the fans at the games ought to go to a game once in a while so they remember what it's like to be there, and what it actually sounds like at a game.

[mikegrier]

Did he really serve it? I didn't see that. What kind of power trip is that for Lindy. I'm not happy about Vanek's time either but it wasn't THAT big of a deal to me. But why put Vanek in the box. That is a stupid move by Lindy. Does he really need to break him down that much and make him a good little soldier? What other coach puts his top goal scorer in the box for five minutes.

It's a strategy to use your best scorer whose not gonna be on the penalty kill incase he gets a breakaway coming out of the box.

[wjag]

Just cause

 

1. Crowd noise.. Folks sure are coming to the defense of the crowd. Excusing it on mikes, sophistication, etc. I went to a Capitals game last weekend. The crowd does their own cheerleading. They are there the WHOLE game, winning or losing. They are always clamoring. All you have to do is watch as the camera pans the Buffalo crowd. They are sitting on their hands. Listen to a Montreal game. The crowd oohs and aahs on EVERY touch of the puck. We could hear the crowd just fine last night. It was so quiet that a single crowd whistle was coming through. I'm not directly picking on Buffalo fans, just saying they aren't as a loud as other teams. It took until 3:30 left before the first Let's Go Buffalo chant actually could be heard. The argument I do think has merit is that there tends to be a bunch of out-of-towners in there for the opposing team and that takes some of the crowd out of it. I'll certainly defer to those who attend regularly. My only metric is opening night against Montreal. And I can tell you that the place was very quiet. I'm heading to Buffalo during the holidays. I get to see Carolina and Ottawa. I'll see how much different it appears after those two games.

2. On to Mac.. He clearly knew he hurt him. He stayed down to see if the guy was all right. The ref read it that way too as he protected Mac from the other team. I come down on the side it wasn't intentional.

3. Vanek in the box.. Why not. That icing after he served a minor was one of the worst gaffs I've seen. Maybe he did it so he could stay on the ice. :blush:

4. Miller remains unbeaten against Edmonton. 4-0 and a sporty sub 1.25 GAA.

5. 29 minutes of PK time. PK teams earned the victory last night.

6. I really like the defense pairings this year. They seem like natural pairings.

7. First I heard Grier has a groin issue. That is bad news and makes Friday's game interesting. Looks like Mair is going to get a start. That is going to blow up some lines though.

8. Another good night on faceoff wins, percentage wise. They did appear to lose some key ones though.

9. Still in first place but the rest of the division is closing in.

10.Edmonton's PK was pretty stout last night. Buffalo PP rarely got set up in the zone after the first face off win.

[SwampD]

It's a strategy to use your best scorer whose not gonna be on the penalty kill incase he gets a breakaway coming out of the box.

It's a crappy strategy if you ask me. I could see it maybe on a 2 min. But to sacrifice him for 5 min on the off chance that he'll get a breakaway is pretty silly. I bet the numbers don't back it up either. I know I've seen more shorthanded goals than breakaways coming out of the box, let alone goals that resulted from them.

[LabattBlue]

There have been several references in this thread to the Sabres killing off 29 minutes in penalties. Unless you are short handed for a 10 minute misconduct :doh: , the number is more like 18 or 19 minutes.

 

My only thought on the game...Miller was good and the rest of the team was very lackluster in beating a mediocre team at the end of a 3 games in 4 nights stretch(all on the road).

 

Let me guess...

 

1. The ice was bad because of the Metallica concert the night before?

 

2. The flu bug is still going around?

 

3. They were rusty from not playing since Saturday?

 

4. They were busy consoling Vanek after he got called out by Ruff?

 

 

PS 5 hits by the Sabres? Seriously? The pussification of Kaleta is well under way. I don't care if he only played 5 or 6 minutes. His job is to go out and play physical. If not, he can go join Adam Mair on waivers!

 

 

I know...a win is a win! :)

[deluca67]

In my opinion, Reddox took a very reckless angle towards the puck with MacArthur racing him to the wall. He dipped his back towards Mac, who pushed off against him to create the big impact.

 

Players need to realize that despite the fact they are wearing enough body armor to survive machine gun fire, they are still very vulnerable to impact injuries to the head. A player needs to know he can't twist his back towards a player while heading full speed into the boards...it's this false sense of invincibility that's causing way too many dangerous injuries in the NHL today.

Bullsh!t. It's like you are blaming the victim for dressing too sexy when she gets attacked.

 

What MacArthur did was stupid, reckless and most of all dangerous. He certainly deserves a suspension. This being the NHL and Colin Campbell being the most incompetent and ineffective administrator in all of professional sports I doubt any significant penalty to be levied.

 

Many of you can sit here and post about intent and try to lay blame on the victim. I know and you know if the uniforms were reversed there would be a dozen different threads right now on illegal hits, players not protecting each other, the lake of discipline from the NHL on such dirty hits and how that kid from the Oilers is no better than Chris Neil.

[bottlecap]

but if there are two things he does wrong, they are these: (1) mismanage the backup goaltending, and (2) get too pissed off at the offensive talent. I've never seen Vanek as a primadonna, and I don't think he's one now. He's more Ovie than Cindy (although he isn't as talented as either of them, and Crosby does wear nicer dresses). Unless there's something going on behind the scenes that we don't know about (which certainly is a possibility), I've got to think that Ruff might be screwing up this relationship.

 

Ruff was a mucker as a player and that's the kind of players he likes to coach. I don't think he understands specialists other than in the mucker area. Terminator Tomas is a finisher and so far no one has been setting the table for him consistently. Before the NHL he was also known for unique "long-distance" moves like clearing the puck in from center and banking it off the backboards with the intention of passing it to himself but it seems players in the NHL are to fast and smart for this. If only the Sabres had a Doug Janney or a Jumbo Joe type to set him up every night. I'm hoping Vanek eventually meshes with Connolly, if Timmy can last the season.

[wonderbread]

Bullsh!t. It's like you are blaming the victim for dressing too sexy when she gets attacked.

 

What MacArthur did was stupid, reckless and most of all dangerous. He certainly deserves a suspension. This being the NHL and Colin Campbell being the most incompetent and ineffective administrator in all of professional sports I doubt any significant penalty to be levied.

 

Many of you can sit here and post about intent and try to lay blame on the victim. I know and you know if the uniforms were reversed there would be a dozen different threads right now on illegal hits, players not protecting each other, the lake of discipline from the NHL on such dirty hits and how that kid from the Oilers is no better than Chris Neil.

Good points all around.

[SwampD]

Bullsh!t. It's like you are blaming the victim for dressing too sexy when she gets attacked.

 

What MacArthur did was stupid, reckless and most of all dangerous. He certainly deserves a suspension. This being the NHL and Colin Campbell being the most incompetent and ineffective administrator in all of professional sports I doubt any significant penalty to be levied.

 

Many of you can sit here and post about intent and try to lay blame on the victim. I know and you know if the uniforms were reversed there would be a dozen different threads right now on illegal hits, players not protecting each other, the lake of discipline from the NHL on such dirty hits and how that kid from the Oilers is no better than Chris Neil.

You said it right there. And all those complaints would be just as misguided as yours right now.

 

EDIT: I've watched the video over and over now. As much as I agree with your don't blame the victim line, I for the life of me can't figure out what Reddox thought he was doing there.

[nfreeman]

My only thought on the game...Miller was good and the rest of the team was very lackluster in beating a mediocre team at the end of a 3 games in 4 nights stretch(all on the road).

I thought the Sabres played pretty well. They weren't able to carry much of the play in the 3rd period because they were shorthanded for a big chunk of it (and for the 2nd period too, for that matter). But their penalty-killing was excellent, they again dominated in faceoffs and they seemed to play a pretty tight, disciplined game. Again, the Sabres ground out a win against a lower-tier team by playing a sound overall game and getting excellent goaltending.

 

It didn't erase the disappointment of last weekend, or make me any more confident about this coming weekend, but consistently getting 2 points in games like these is an unambiguous step forward from last year.

 

Bullsh!t. It's like you are blaming the victim for dressing too sexy when she gets attacked.

 

What MacArthur did was stupid, reckless and most of all dangerous. He certainly deserves a suspension. This being the NHL and Colin Campbell being the most incompetent and ineffective administrator in all of professional sports I doubt any significant penalty to be levied.

 

Many of you can sit here and post about intent and try to lay blame on the victim. I know and you know if the uniforms were reversed there would be a dozen different threads right now on illegal hits, players not protecting each other, the lake of discipline from the NHL on such dirty hits and how that kid from the Oilers is no better than Chris Neil.

100% agree. I'd be fine with a 5-game suspension for this hit and every one like it. Mac isn't a dirty player, but there just isn't anywhere near enough deterrence at work in the minds of NHL players right now about hits like this one.

 

Ruff was a mucker as a player and that's the kind of players he likes to coach. I don't think he understands specialists other than in the mucker area.

I don't think this is a fair statement. Lindy's never had an elite scorer to work with. Vanek is the first guy he's ever had who looks like a consistent 40-goal scorer -- and Lindy's gotten good production out of him. Guys like Briere, Drury and Miro never produced numbers elsewhere like they did in Buffalo. Lindy developed Soupy from a frequent healthy scratch into a $50MM all-star.

 

Now, you can say (as others are saying) that Lindy should be getting more out of Vanek than we're seeing now, but I don't think there are any other players that have come through here that didn't produce here but were elite scorers elsewhere.

 

A few other thoughts on the game:

 

1. After looking at the box score, I continue to think Vanek is coming around. He played over 14 minutes last night, and given all of the penalty-killing that was needed, his "normalized" ice time probably would've been in the 17-minute range. This isn't the 20-22 minutes many would like to see, but it's higher than TV's been getting recently. It just seemed to me that the TC-Stafford-Vanek line had good jump last night.

 

2. Having said that, Vanek yet again passed up a shot from the slot on a 2-on-1 created by a nice feed from TC in favor of trying to make a fancy pass (to Stafford), which was broken up by the defenseman. This drives me crazy. Vanek's job in that situation is to get off a hard shot (both fast and well targeted) that forces the goalie to make a good save and hopefully give up a fat rebound.

 

3. I am really starting to like Tim Kennedy. One of the Oiler's big defensemen gave Hecht a post-whistle shot, and Kennedy came flying in and gave the defenseman a bigger shot. Kennedy is in the middle of every scrum, he has a great nose for the puck, he skates the puck out of the defensive zone fearlessly and under control and he just seems like he has excellent hockey sense. I'd like to see more offense creation from him, but I think it will come.

 

4. I thought Hecht had a very strong game.

 

5. Myers led the Sabres in ice time and had a very smooth, controlled game. One thing I've noticed he excels at is using his feet, his range, and his hockey sense to keep the puck in the offensive zone. It's not just his athletic ability and his size though -- he can tell where the puck is going and where he needs to be.

 

6. I thought the switch of Roy and TC was pretty effective in getting more jump out of both of those lines. TC had the most ice time out of the Sabres' forwards.

 

7. Miller was terrific.

 

8. After last weekend, I need to see much more out of this team this coming weekend before I can see them as contenders.

[shrader]

Good thoughts. But Kennedy? It's tough to find forwards with less shorthanded ice time this year than Vanek, but he's one of them. You'll have to tell Lindy that Kennedy has something to offer the PK. And Drew Stafford had killed 11 seconds all season, but he got some time on that kill.

 

This was about humiliating Vanek. As was putting him out with 19 seconds left.

 

I wish I hadn't jokingly made the comment about Vanek serving the penalty. It has the tinfoil hat brigade all up in arms again. Anyway, Kennedy is the center for our top defensive line. I'm not aware of the amount of time he has been on the ice for a PK, but he's going to be a much better option than Vanek thanks to being one of the teams better defensive options. He's also got the ability to take a faceoff. You never know what can happen, so that's a skill you want available to you in case you need it on the long PK.

 

As for Stafford, I didn't notice him out there, but it was probably right when the penalty was about to expire. They get Connolly and Stafford out there so that when Vanek steps out of the box, a regular line is in place.

 

 

I think it was wjag who complained earlier about Vanek stepping out of the ice and immediately icing a puck at one point. That was a very weak call. It was a very soft dump and the defenseman stopped chasing it as it approached the goal line. Should have been waived off.

[Eleven]

 

I think it was wjag who complained earlier about Vanek stepping out of the ice and immediately icing a puck at one point. That was a very weak call. It was a very soft dump and the defenseman stopped chasing it as it approached the goal line. Should have been waived off.

 

On top of that, there should have been a Sabre there to shepherd the puck across the blueline while teammates were changing. Pretty basic. That's what I meant above when I said the icing call really wasn't Vanek's fault.

[SwampD]

I think it was wjag who complained earlier about Vanek stepping out of the ice and immediately icing a puck at one point. That was a very weak call. It was a very soft dump and the defenseman stopped chasing it as it approached the goal line. Should have been waived off.

On top of that, there should have been a Sabre there to shepherd the puck across the blueline while teammates were changing. Pretty basic. That's what I meant above when I said the icing call really wasn't Vanek's fault.

No way. Vanek sucks. Trade him.

 

shrader, there are just as many people in the Black Helicoptor patrol.

[Eleven]

Bullsh!t. It's like you are blaming the victim for dressing too sexy when she gets attacked.

 

What MacArthur did was stupid, reckless and most of all dangerous. He certainly deserves a suspension. This being the NHL and Colin Campbell being the most incompetent and ineffective administrator in all of professional sports I doubt any significant penalty to be levied.

 

Many of you can sit here and post about intent and try to lay blame on the victim. I know and you know if the uniforms were reversed there would be a dozen different threads right now on illegal hits, players not protecting each other, the lake of discipline from the NHL on such dirty hits and how that kid from the Oilers is no better than Chris Neil.

 

Just saw the replay posted by North Buffalo in the thread he started just to discuss the hit (good idea for a separate thread on that one, IMO). Bad hit, suspension deserved, but no bad intent--it's Mac, after all.

[deluca67]

You said it right there. And all those complaints would be just as misguided as yours right now.

 

EDIT: I've watched the video over and over now. As much as I agree with your don't blame the victim line, I for the life of me can't figure out what Reddox thought he was doing there.

Playing hockey? He was going after the puck had had position on MacArthur who shoved him into the boards. I'm not seeing where any possible confusion would come from. Take off the Sabre blinders and look at the play.

[Stoner]

Here's an alternative theory: vanek made a number of brain-dead plays, but he skated better this game and having TC at center lifted both him and Stafford. Lindy chose vanek to serve the penalty on the hope he'd get a breakaway coming out of the box, and had him out at the end to break the ice with an empty-netter.

 

Vanek was sent out after Hecht scored.

[darksabre]

Bullsh!t. It's like you are blaming the victim for dressing too sexy when she gets attacked.

 

What MacArthur did was stupid, reckless and most of all dangerous. He certainly deserves a suspension. This being the NHL and Colin Campbell being the most incompetent and ineffective administrator in all of professional sports I doubt any significant penalty to be levied.

 

Many of you can sit here and post about intent and try to lay blame on the victim. I know and you know if the uniforms were reversed there would be a dozen different threads right now on illegal hits, players not protecting each other, the lake of discipline from the NHL on such dirty hits and how that kid from the Oilers is no better than Chris Neil.

 

Please, go play a game of hockey and come back and tell me that what MacArthur did wasn't a perfectly reasonable hockey play. I have no problem with players on this team getting hurt from hockey plays. If Mac had gone to the boards like that, I wouldn't be complaining. That play was a "#%^$#! happens" incident. Like two players looking the other direction and plowing into each other. This wasn't Chris Drury getting creamed, or Campbell wrecking R.J. Umberger, or Kaleta jumping to make any number of his hits. This was two players trying to out-muscle each other for the puck, and it ended undesirably.

 

You guys are trying to draw a line between penalizing players for injuring other players, and penalizing players for playing hockey, and it's not working. Sorry.

[nfreeman]

Vanek was sent out after Hecht scored.

Right, but wasn't the net still empty?

[shrader]

No way. Vanek sucks. Trade him.

 

shrader, there are just as many people in the Black Helicoptor patrol.

 

I want to be a part of a group too. What other options are there?

[SwampD]

Please, go play a game of hockey and come back and tell me that what MacArthur did wasn't a perfectly reasonable hockey play. I have no problem with players on this team getting hurt from hockey plays. If Mac had gone to the boards like that, I wouldn't be complaining. That play was a "#%^$#! happens" incident. Like two players looking the other direction and plowing into each other. This wasn't Chris Drury getting creamed, or Campbell wrecking R.J. Umberger, or Kaleta jumping to make any number of his hits. This was two players trying to out-muscle each other for the puck, and it ended undesirably.

 

You guys are trying to draw a line between penalizing players for injuring other players, and penalizing players for playing hockey, and it's not working. Sorry.

Yes.

[Stoner]

Excellent. I've been to four games this year so far. The crowds at HSBC are a lot more hockey-sophisticated than your average stay-at-home-numb-nut will give them credit for. Usually, the crowd is into it until the Sabres either:

 

A. get scored on first

B. are in full lack-of-effort mode

C. both A and B

D. the game is boring

E. both C and D

 

If the Sabres are leading heading into the second or third, the crowd is usually right there. If the Sabres start to suck, the crowd is right there yelling at them. If the suck is prolonged; they become quiet. If they aren't sure how the game is going to end, as in, they're winning, but they're sucking, they're tensely quiet.

 

I mean, having been to games consistently now for the past several seasons, I don't get the crowd-is-not-into it criticism. People don't want the blasting music, they don't want to be encouraged to "Make Some Noise!" by a super large TV, they don't need an eight-goal blow-out; the crowd is always happy and into the game simply when the Sabres are playing well.

 

They don't even have to be winning! Even a just a hearty effort puts the crowd into it. The HSBC crowds get it. And the team can't fake it out there.

 

For this game, which I was not at, I could tell (by hearing it on the TV) the crowd was into it for the full first period, and then near during the last five minutes of the game.

 

Maybe the people who harp on the fans at the games ought to go to a game once in a while so they remember what it's like to be there, and what it actually sounds like at a game.

 

I love the A through E list of exceptions. Do "sophisticated" fans stop cheering when their team is behind?

 

I'm just going by what I see and hear. During play, it's very hard to miss a good Let's Go Buffalo chant. Sorry, I don't hear a lot of them. You usually hear one when the Sabres are in a healthy lead. It's easy to do it then. It's easy to count up to We Want Nine. And when they show the crowd after a Sabres goal, most people are not cheering.

 

Sophisticated? Booing obvious calls and obvious goal reviews when they go against the Sabres?

 

Fans are fans. I don't think Sabre fans are any different than most. Holding them up against the fans in Montreal isn't fair. HSBC Arena does not have a reputation as being loud or tough to play in. Why is that?

 

Someone should ask Bill Hoppe what his take on this is.