Stoner Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 Going out on a limb here on a Sunday morning. I can see the villagers gathering their saws already, but that's OK. It's just a couple of games, but Tyler Myers' game has definitely declined. Why? Probably just the inevitable coming down to earth, the kid realizing where he is and what he's doing. But what if the coaching staff has already gotten into this guy's head? Was there a one on one drill where Ruff blew his whistle and showed Myers how to play someone like Max? Does the former middling defenseman want to mold this kid into his image? Like he so successfully turned Thomas Vanek into a 17-minute-a-game "two-way" player? Myers' ice time has already been cut three games in a row. Ruff has already made a strange presser comment about him. ("Take a little of the shine off.") Myers' big comfortable smile is already gone. The question is: do you coach a talent like this? We've all marveled over him, so no backtracking now. Is he or is he not the defense equivalent of an Ovechkin or Crosby? Do players like that need coaching? What kind of player would Ovechkin have been under Ruff? As good? Really just food for thought. But flame away. Saw away, whatever.
deluca67 Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 Going out on a limb here on a Sunday morning. I can see the villagers gathering their saws already, but that's OK. It's just a couple of games, but Tyler Myers' game has definitely declined. Why? Probably just the inevitable coming down to earth, the kid realizing where he is and what he's doing. But what if the coaching staff has already gotten into this guy's head? Was there a one on one drill where Ruff blew his whistle and showed Myers how to play someone like Max? Does the former middling defenseman want to mold this kid into his image? Like he so successfully turned Thomas Vanek into a 17-minute-a-game "two-way" player? Myers' ice time has already been cut three games in a row. Ruff has already made a strange presser comment about him. ("Take a little of the shine off.") Myers' big comfortable smile is already gone. The question is: do you coach a talent like this? We've all marveled over him, so no backtracking now. Is he or is he not the defense equivalent of an Ovechkin or Crosby? Do players like that need coaching? What kind of player would Ovechkin have been under Ruff? As good? Really just food for thought. But flame away. Saw away, whatever. This is a great question. Not just Myers, lets add Butler and Sekera to the question as well. Sekera seems to be regressing and Butler has looked like just a another blueliner so far this season. If Myers follows the same pattern it should be a major cause for concern.
SwampD Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 This is a great question. Mot just Myers, lets add Butler and Sekera to the question as well. Sekera seems to be regressing and Butler has looked like just a another blueliner so far this season. If Myers follows the same pattern it should be a major cause for concern. I find this very surprising coming from you (and I'm not being snarky, as PA says). But when a staunch "Lindy's gotten the most out of his players and without him we would be way worse off" guy starts to question his coaching, there has to something to it.
tom webster Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 Going out on a limb here on a Sunday morning. I can see the villagers gathering their saws already, but that's OK. It's just a couple of games, but Tyler Myers' game has definitely declined. Why? Probably just the inevitable coming down to earth, the kid realizing where he is and what he's doing. But what if the coaching staff has already gotten into this guy's head? Was there a one on one drill where Ruff blew his whistle and showed Myers how to play someone like Max? Does the former middling defenseman want to mold this kid into his image? Like he so successfully turned Thomas Vanek into a 17-minute-a-game "two-way" player? Myers' ice time has already been cut three games in a row. Ruff has already made a strange presser comment about him. ("Take a little of the shine off.") Myers' big comfortable smile is already gone. The question is: do you coach a talent like this? We've all marveled over him, so no backtracking now. Is he or is he not the defense equivalent of an Ovechkin or Crosby? Do players like that need coaching? What kind of player would Ovechkin have been under Ruff? As good? Really just food for thought. But flame away. Saw away, whatever. As always, trying to read more into throw away comments and stir the pot. The inevitable decline that you see in young defenseman is part of the process. Its why some of us always throw out cautionary comments when some gush over their play. The good ones adjust to the pressure and the fact that they become part of the other team's game plan and others just go away. Myers and Butler will probably develop into solid, if not great NHL defenseman, but who really knows. Sekera, on the other hand, I always thought he was only as good as those who wanted Campbell out of here tried to make him to be.
BuffalOhio Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 I find this very surprising coming from you (and I'm not being snarky, as PA says). But when a staunch "Lindy's gotten the most out of his players and without him we would be way worse off" guy starts to question his coaching, there has to something to it. I think the kid got burned by someone who put a good move on him. He's had a few gaffes, but he's 19. This kid is super talented, no reason to worry. I also think that on a 1-on-2, he thought he'd get a little more help from his partner on that play. It almost looks like he turned Max over to Tallinder on that play, but Hank wasn't ready for it, and Tyler didn't realize that until it was too late.
Stoner Posted October 18, 2009 Author Report Posted October 18, 2009 As always, trying to read more into throw away comments and stir the pot. The inevitable decline that you see in young defenseman is part of the process. Its why some of us always throw out cautionary comments when some gush over their play. The good ones adjust to the pressure and the fact that they become part of the other team's game plan and others just go away. Myers and Butler will probably develop into solid, if not great NHL defenseman, but who really knows. Sekera, on the other hand, I always thought he was only as good as those who wanted Campbell out of here tried to make him to be. All well and good. But what if Myers is as good as most people think he is? What if, in fact, he's a once in a lifetime player who could become one of the greats? If you weren't wowed by his first couple of game, you have no hockey pulse. What if the decline doesn't have to be "inevitable"? Myers? Probably? Solid? Who really knows? Who coached Gretzky?
FearTheReaper Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 Heres an idea. Why doesn't Ruff just leave the finer details in our Defenders' game to James Patrick? Ruff should coach the defenders on a broad basis and let James handle the rest. Not only was Patrick an incredible defensive d man,but he would be able to showcase some subtle aspects of his old game to the younger guys. And that could speed up the mautrity process. Lindy has always had the tendancy of making very good decisions but equally questionable ones. I.e. the handling of his backup goalies,and certain line combos.
Stoner Posted October 18, 2009 Author Report Posted October 18, 2009 Heres an idea. Why doesn't Ruff just leave the finer details in our Defenders' game to James Patrick? Ruff should coach the defenders on a broad basis and let James handle the rest. Not only was Patrick an incredible defensive d man,but he would be able to showcase some subtle aspects of his old game to the younger guys. And that could speed up the mautrity process. Lindy has always had the tendancy of making very good decisions but equally questionable ones. I.e. the handling of his backup goalies,and certain line combos. Reaper, this is exactly what I fear. I go back to Trent Edwards, who looked like a natural in his first start. What happened? Did stellar NFL QBs Turk Schonert and Alex Van Pelt pull the guy aside and say, "Here, kid. This is how I threw the ball into the wind. Your grip is all wrong."?
DR HOLLIDAY Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 Myers is gonna be a great player for the Sabres and he is already shows flashes of what is to come, but he is 19 and he is gonna make mistakes.
deluca67 Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 Heres an idea. Why doesn't Ruff just leave the finer details in our Defenders' game to James Patrick? Ruff should coach the defenders on a broad basis and let James handle the rest. Not only was Patrick an incredible defensive d man,but he would be able to showcase some subtle aspects of his old game to the younger guys. And that could speed up the mautrity process. Lindy has always had the tendancy of making very good decisions but equally questionable ones. I.e. the handling of his backup goalies,and certain line combos. James Patrick? Really? Are we using the same system of evaluation that had Montador as a top four? The problem the Sabres are facing, PA alluded to it just above here, is that Ruff and Patrick can't relate with this kid. Neither came close as players to having this kids combination of size and speed. The closest they can compare this kid to is Tallinder and look how that turned out. And again, as PA pointed to Vanek, Ruff has no experience as a coach with a player with the offensive talent Vanek has. Would Vanek be a more prolific scorer under a different coach? I say this with all the respect in the world for Ruff.
... Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 I think the kid got burned by someone who put a good move on him. He's had a few gaffes, but he's 19. This kid is super talented, no reason to worry. I also think that on a 1-on-2, he thought he'd get a little more help from his partner on that play. It almost looks like he turned Max over to Tallinder on that play, but Hank wasn't ready for it, and Tyler didn't realize that until it was too late. This. I would like to think that Myers will take the Max burn personally, and learn from it. Of all of the Sabres, Myers seems most likely right now to learn from things like that. For every up side there is a down side - the coaching staff was looking for it, we were looking for it, and last night we got Myers down side. Now we know that on a bad night, he'll still be as good or better than most of the Sabres defense. Which is okay in my book right now. I disagree with the assessment of Butler's progression. I think the solid play we saw last year from him is still there. Now he's taking on responsibilities on the PP, and he's also letting a little bit of the "mean and nasty" come out. It's very, very hard to assess the impact of Lindy on this team because the team has remained fundamentally unchanged for the past three seasons. When we made the assessment based on the first four or five games, which we did, we were saying things like "the players are finally listening to Lindy - and LR has made some effective tweaks to the system." Of course, after last night, the conversation is about LR, and not the players. I personally don't know where to point the finger of blame for last night, because there isn't anything new to measure up against the old - unless you go back more than three seasons.
Stoner Posted October 18, 2009 Author Report Posted October 18, 2009 Myers is gonna be a great player for the Sabres and he is already shows flashes of what is to come, but he is 19 and he is gonna make mistakes. I'm in a challenging mood. Forgive me. I wasn't hugged enough as a child. But here it is. Where is it written that young players have to struggle? Does it become a self fulfilling prophecy? Myers is on top of the world, has one subpar performance against the Isles (for him subpar, but still pretty brilliant) and his coach seems to be delighting in "taking the shine off" the kid. Does Myers really have to be torn down to be built back up again in the image of Ruff, or Ruff's image of a defenseman? What if we've been delivered the baby Jesus here? Are we really going to #%^$#! the bed?
SwampD Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 I'm in a challenging mood. Forgive me. I wasn't hugged enough as a child. But here it is. Where is it written that young players have to struggle? Does it become a self fulfilling prophecy? Myers is on top of the world, has one subpar performance against the Isles (for him subpar, but still pretty brilliant) and his coach seems to be delighting in "taking the shine off" the kid. Does Myers really have to be torn down to be built back up again in the image of Ruff, or Ruff's image of a defenseman? What if we've been delivered the baby Jesus here? Are we really going to #%^$#! the bed? :lol:
Figster Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 Lindy Ruff's a sight for sore eyes when compared to the Buffalo Bills Head coaching dilemma. Its nice to watch a well coached team for a change.
nobody Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 [quote name='PASabreFan' date='18 October 2009 - 11:44 AM' timestamp='1255880657' post='168855' What if we've been delivered the baby Jesus here? Are we really going to #%^$#! the bed? You don't think Joseph told Jesus he had to learn how to use the carpenter tools the right way rather then just let him use his powers to build whatever carpenters built back then?
nobody Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 James Patrick? Really? Are we using the same system of evaluation that had Montador as a top four? The problem the Sabres are facing, PA alluded to it just above here, is that Ruff and Patrick can't relate with this kid. Neither came close as players to having this kids combination of size and speed. The closest they can compare this kid to is Tallinder and look how that turned out. And again, as PA pointed to Vanek, Ruff has no experience as a coach with a player with the offensive talent Vanek has. Would Vanek be a more prolific scorer under a different coach? I say this with all the respect in the world for Ruff. I do agree that perhaps the assistants Lindy hires do not get all they can out of players. Other teams hire ex players who really excelled; the Sabres hire people like Jim Corsi. Now of course we all know that some ex players are more talented as coaches then they were as players and many top players make bad coaches (cough cough Gretzky cough.)
Stoner Posted October 18, 2009 Author Report Posted October 18, 2009 You don't think Joseph told Jesus he had to learn how to use the carpenter tools the right way rather then just let him use his powers to build whatever carpenters built back then? I don't think Jesus's big skill was carpentry.
Eleven Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 I do agree that perhaps the assistants Lindy hires do not get all they can out of players. Other teams hire ex players who really excelled; the Sabres hire people like Jim Corsi. Now of course we all know that some ex players are more talented as coaches then they were as players and many top players make bad coaches (cough cough Gretzky cough.) C'mon. You saw what Corsi did with Hasek. Give the man some credit.
sabresnutinphoenix Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 Myers is gonna be a great player for the Sabres and he is already shows flashes of what is to come, but he is 19 and he is gonna make mistakes. totally agree...
Stoner Posted October 18, 2009 Author Report Posted October 18, 2009 You don't think Joseph told Jesus he had to learn how to use the carpenter tools the right way rather then just let him use his powers to build whatever carpenters built back then? Well if I'm gonna be misquoted, might as well be in reference to the saviour. Think young Jesus yelled, "YOU'RE NOT MY DAD!" :)
X. Benedict Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 Going out on a limb here on a Sunday morning. I can see the villagers gathering their saws already, but that's OK. It's just a couple of games, but Tyler Myers' game has definitely declined. Why? Probably just the inevitable coming down to earth, the kid realizing where he is and what he's doing. But what if the coaching staff has already gotten into this guy's head? Was there a one on one drill where Ruff blew his whistle and showed Myers how to play someone like Max? Does the former middling defenseman want to mold this kid into his image? Like he so successfully turned Thomas Vanek into a 17-minute-a-game "two-way" player? Myers' ice time has already been cut three games in a row. Ruff has already made a strange presser comment about him. ("Take a little of the shine off.") Myers' big comfortable smile is already gone. The question is: do you coach a talent like this? We've all marveled over him, so no backtracking now. Is he or is he not the defense equivalent of an Ovechkin or Crosby? Do players like that need coaching? What kind of player would Ovechkin have been under Ruff? As good? Really just food for thought. But flame away. Saw away, whatever. Regression over three games? What are you looking at... Just how should a 19 year old's ice time be managed in back to back games less than 10 games into the season? The best measure for this kid is not Ovechkin...it is Chara....he's way ahead of Chara at a similar mark. At this point I would have to err conservatively by saying less or equal talent....but perhaps better coaching.
Vanek Nation Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 Who coached Gretzky? Barry Melrose, bring him back.
LabattBlue Posted October 18, 2009 Report Posted October 18, 2009 C'mon. You saw what Corsi did with Hasek. Give the man some credit. Corsi never coached Hasek. ;)
Stoner Posted October 18, 2009 Author Report Posted October 18, 2009 Regression over three games? What are you looking at... Just how should a 19 year old's ice time be managed in back to back games less than 10 games into the season? The best measure for this kid is not Ovechkin...it is Chara....he's way ahead of Chara at a similar mark. At this point I would have to err conservatively by saying less or equal talent....but perhaps better coaching. The three-game reference is to his ice time. The decline in his game, from Detroit to NY, and NY to Atlanta, is patently obvious. The NY performance had Ruff saying it took some "shine" off his game, and his performance last night had Myers saying it was not his best performance. The reference to an Ovechkin or a Crosby was not literal. I know they're not defensemen. Again, I'm just trying to think outside the box. What if Myers is a freak? Where is it written that a rookie defenseman can't get mid-20 minutes on back to back nights? Don't the Sabres owe it to themselves to find out what they have?
VansTheMans Posted October 19, 2009 Report Posted October 19, 2009 Lindy played Montador and Lydman over Tallinder and Myers last night, which I thought was foolish. Montador and Lydman made several bad plays, giving the puck away and they failed to move the puck up the ice to the forwards. Why Lindy played Montador and Lydman (18 mins even strength) over Tallinder and Myers (13 minutes even strength) is beyond me.
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