jimiVbaby Posted October 16, 2009 Report Posted October 16, 2009 I have no problem whatsoever with Paille playing the wing on the top line until Vanek's back. Once again, if he's a 3rd line checking winger, he's a failed draft pick. Take a gander at who was picked after Dan Paille it's quite unimpressive.
inkman Posted October 16, 2009 Report Posted October 16, 2009 Once again, if he's a 3rd line checking winger, he's a failed draft pick. Mission Accomplished
inkman Posted October 16, 2009 Report Posted October 16, 2009 Take a gander at who was picked after Dan Paille it's quite unimpressive. 20 Daniel Paille (forward) Canada Buffalo Sabres Guelph Storm 21 Anton Babchuk (defence) Russia Chicago Blackhawks Elemash Elektrostal 22 Sean Bergenheim (forward) Finland New York Islanders Jokerit 23 Ben Eager (forward) Canada Phoenix Coyotes Oshawa Generals 24 Alexander Steen (forward) Sweden Toronto Maple Leafs Frölunda HC 25 Cam Ward (goaltender) Canada Carolina Hurricanes Red Deer Rebels 26 Martin Vagner (defence) Czech Republic Dallas Stars Hull Olympiques 27 Mike Morris (forward) United States San Jose Sharks St. Sebastian's High School 28 Jonas Johansson (forward) Sweden Colorado Avalanche HV 71 29 Hannu Toivonen (goaltender) Finland Boston Bruins HPK 30 Jim Slater (forward) United States Atlanta Thrashers Michigan State University Ben Eager! haha (he is probably better :wallbash: )
Two or less Posted October 16, 2009 Report Posted October 16, 2009 I just don't remember Paille being talked about as a power forward prospect in the same way Kassian is? As far as the numbers go, I'm not sure it is fair to compare two years of Kassian's numbers versus 4 years of Paille's. Here is Paille's draft day analysis from the Red Line Report via USA Today.... Crash-and-bang power winger loves contact. Dominant forechecker punishes opposition defensemen and contrls the play along the walls and down low in the offensive zone. Decent hands make him a valuable power play contributor. Good team player with real leadership potential. Underrated and has better offensive skills than he's given credit for. Has strong, powerful stride with great balance and is very strong on his skates; difficult to separate him from the puck. Unusually strong for his size. He's hungry to get to net and will drag defenders on his back. Hits hard and often and creates lots of turnovers and offense off the forecheck. Not fancy, but has decent moves and a knack for getting to open ice at the right moment. Needs to focus better on d-zone responsibilities, but is coachable and puts in the effort. Coach's dream: heart, grit, character and mental toughness. A winner. It says best case is 2nd line Left Wing. Obviously he is a major bust compared to what the scouts had him to be. Honestly, i don't even remember Paille ever being on the PP lol.
shrader Posted October 16, 2009 Report Posted October 16, 2009 Not revising history, because I didn't actually say that the Sabres drafted him as a power forward, but rather that they could have had that role in mind (edit: looking back SteamRoller67 did, in fact, say that he was supposedly a power forward.) I made the comparison to Kassian because he is somebody that we know the Sabres drafted as a power forward. The numbers seem to be similar and they were both known for a physical style of play. Other than that, I agree that they are different types of players. I didn't see Danny back in the OHL, so I don't know if he played a power-forward type role there. It may very well be that he never played like that. Yeah, I'm not calling you out on the revisionist history here. Anyway, with the stat comparison, obviously it's too early to tell, but the main thing that sticks out with me is how Paille was steady the whole way, while Kassian had that major improvement in his second season. If that becomes a trend, things will get very interesting with him soon enough.
Kristian Posted October 16, 2009 Report Posted October 16, 2009 I agree man, Matt ellis is a feel good story and all and works his tail off but come on, have you seen the guy skate? I guess as long as we're winning right now keep it the way it is though. but i'd like to see paille play everynight Who cares how he skates? He gives 110% every night, and if Paille did the same we wouldn't be talking about this. The fact that he lies below both Ellis and Mair on the depth chart should be enough of a wakeup call, cause there's no doubt he should be above both, if it came down to only talent. I do agree Lindy's been too hard on him in the past though, and benching him when there have been others far more deserving of a severe case of "splinter-bottocks". He'll get his shot, and it's up to him to take it.
spndnchz Posted October 16, 2009 Report Posted October 16, 2009 I forget which article it was but LR said his yelling approach works on some guys, but not Paille. He needs more of an arm around the shoulder approach.
SteamRoller72 Posted October 16, 2009 Report Posted October 16, 2009 Take a gander at who was picked after Dan Paille it's quite unimpressive. I would take any of the next 5 picked directly after him. 21 and 25 are all far better NHL players at this point. Ben Eager is a heart and soul banger that scraps as well. I'll take him too. Bergenheim and Steen are in the same boat as Danny. Anton Babchuk is the bomb dropping, right hand shot from the point the Sabres have yearned for. (hopefully Myers fills that role on the PP). Ward is a franchise goalie. 20 Daniel Paille (forward) Canada Buffalo Sabres Guelph Storm 21 Anton Babchuk (defence) Russia Chicago Blackhawks Elemash Elektrostal 22 Sean Bergenheim (forward) Finland New York Islanders Jokerit 23 Ben Eager (forward) Canada Phoenix Coyotes Oshawa Generals 24 Alexander Steen (forward) Sweden Toronto Maple Leafs Frölunda HC 25 Cam Ward (goaltender) Canada Carolina Hurricanes Red Deer Rebels
SDS Posted October 16, 2009 Report Posted October 16, 2009 I forget which article it was but LR said his yelling approach works on some guys, but not Paille. He needs more of an arm around the shoulder approach. So, you're saying Paille prefers a reach around? :unsure:
Derrico Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Posted October 16, 2009 Well, looks like my whining paid off. Paille gets the start tonight and lets hope that he brings in. I know alot of people are down on him but as good as we've looked so far we could be that much better if he ever lives up to his potential.
Two or less Posted October 16, 2009 Report Posted October 16, 2009 Well, looks like my whining paid off. Paille gets the start tonight and lets hope that he brings in. I know alot of people are down on him but as good as we've looked so far we could be that much better if he ever lives up to his potential. He won't. Even if he plays well and better then we expect him to, he's not going to beat out Adam Mair from the lineup. Paille just needs to play hard and get shipped out of town. He's useless on this team. He's never going to be the player we drafted him to be.
shrader Posted October 16, 2009 Report Posted October 16, 2009 He won't. Even if he plays well and better then we expect him to, he's not going to beat out Adam Mair from the lineup. Paille just needs to play hard and get shipped out of town. He's useless on this team. He's never going to be the player we drafted him to be. Kind of like how Tallinder is completely useless and needed to be removed from this team before the start of the season?
nobody Posted October 21, 2009 Report Posted October 21, 2009 So, you're saying Paille prefers a reach around? :unsure: I guess that is why he was practicing as Roy's winger.
nobody Posted October 21, 2009 Report Posted October 21, 2009 Once again, if he's a 3rd line checking winger, he's a failed draft pick. I guess Darcy agrees with you.
darksabre Posted October 21, 2009 Report Posted October 21, 2009 Gone Gone, can't be wrong Never comin' back Dan Paille's gone
Eleven Posted October 21, 2009 Report Posted October 21, 2009 Oh Daniel Paille We wish you well in beantown But we like our pick Haik-who?
Taro T Posted October 21, 2009 Report Posted October 21, 2009 You don't pick 3rd line wingers in the first round. If that was the intention, the Sabres need to re-think their strategy. You most certainly do when you know your cashflow is critically bad and the house of cards you built up is about to come tumbling down. During the criminals' reign, that is a typical Sabres draft pick - much in the Erik Rasmussen mold. Get guys that theoretically can be power forwards but w/out hands ('cause guys w/ hands cost money). The criminals' game plan was build a team that could support a world class goalie but w/out having to pay too much out to anyone BUT the world class goalie. When they totally screwed up the Peca negotiations, that plan went bye-bye as the world class goalie said "spater dudes."
wjag Posted October 21, 2009 Report Posted October 21, 2009 Boston made out in this deal. Paille strikes me as a perfect player for their system. Maybe some new coaching will inspire him to reach his potential. Best of luck against everyone but the Sabres...
shrader Posted October 21, 2009 Report Posted October 21, 2009 You most certainly do when you know your cashflow is critically bad and the house of cards you built up is about to come tumbling down. During the criminals' reign, that is a typical Sabres draft pick - much in the Erik Rasmussen mold. Get guys that theoretically can be power forwards but w/out hands ('cause guys w/ hands cost money). The criminals' game plan was build a team that could support a world class goalie but w/out having to pay too much out to anyone BUT the world class goalie. When they totally screwed up the Peca negotiations, that plan went bye-bye as the world class goalie said "spater dudes." Doesn't Keith Ballard screw with this theory a bit?
Taro T Posted October 21, 2009 Report Posted October 21, 2009 Doesn't Keith Ballard screw with this theory a bit? Not really as the NHL took control of the Sabres in June of 2002. I'd argue that the drafting of Kalinin doesn't mess with it either as he wasn't known as an offensive defenseman at the time of his drafting.
shrader Posted October 21, 2009 Report Posted October 21, 2009 Not really as the NHL took control of the Sabres in June of 2002. I'd argue that the drafting of Kalinin doesn't mess with it either as he wasn't known as an offensive defenseman at the time of his drafting. The point is they took Ballard in the same first round as Paille. If you're not going to include that draft, you can't throw Paille under that draft strategy either.
Taro T Posted October 21, 2009 Report Posted October 21, 2009 The point is they took Ballard in the same first round as Paille. If you're not going to include that draft, you can't throw Paille under that draft strategy either. Nah, it just shows the criminals still had input in the process even though they weren't officially calling the shots. ;) Actually, it was more a case of the philosophy not changing on a dime because the league was now calling shots. Even though he was projected to be an offensive defenseman, it would have been very unlikely that an undersized D-man projected to go in the late 1st or early 2nd would end up earning huge $'s on his 1st or 2nd contract. So a team that was still looking to keep the salaries in check (don't want to bring in huge $ guys right before you get a new owner), would have been willing to go for a d-man early and a guy that wasn't expected to score a lot. The Sabres drafted several decent defensemen in the criminals' tenure. (Typically they went for them in the 2nd round athough they had taken 1 D-man in the 1st round when they drafted Kalinin.) None were projected to be high $ players (although Soupy certainly became one). Their 1st 2 rounds were typically filled with large 2 way forwards and at least 1 defenseman. Paille fit the mold of a 2 way power forward who wasn't projected to be a top scorer. During the criminals' reign, the Sabres were always looking for the low-priced forward over the potential scoring star w/ their top picks. Only one pseudo-real exception to that rule might be Afinogenov going in the 3rd round. But even Max hadn't scored a whole lot prior to getting drafted but he had scored a big goal in the World Juniors (kind of like they could hang Rasmussen's hat trick as the reason he was drafted so high - he might not score a lot of goals, but he scores the important ones on the big stage). Paille was exactly the type of forward the Sabres had been drafting in the high rounds during the criminals' reign. And, to get this sidetracked discussion back on track, the claim was that teams don't draft 3rd liners in the 1st round. I merely countered that, in the case of Sabres around the time the criminals were running things, that claim wasn't true. Vanek was a HUGE departure from typical Sabres' drafting.
shrader Posted October 21, 2009 Report Posted October 21, 2009 I think the main counter to the idea that teams don't draft 3rd liners in the 1st round is the fact every single forward ever taken in the 1st round is not playing on the first line of their team. Like we're saying in other threads, the NHL draft is far from a guarantee. We can find every type of player imaginable taken in the first round.
korab rules Posted October 21, 2009 Report Posted October 21, 2009 I think the main counter to the idea that teams don't draft 3rd liners in the 1st round is the fact every single forward ever taken in the 1st round is not playing on the first line of their team. Like we're saying in other threads, the NHL draft is far from a guarantee. We can find every type of player imaginable taken in the first round. And the sixth round! They draft the best player available, trying to understand what the player's game may look like in three or four or five years. Sometimes they hit, sometimes they miss. Isn't Miller a 6th round pick? You staff your team based on what the players look like in training camp, not what round they were chosen in.
shrader Posted October 21, 2009 Report Posted October 21, 2009 Vanek was a HUGE departure from typical Sabres' drafting. I really wonder how much of that was due to the fact that they were consistently picking somewhere in the middle of the pack year after year, other than that Rasmussen pick. That game breaker talent is tough to find at that point. I have a hard time believing that they were going after guys that wouldn't potentially cash in big time further in their careers, since that is pretty tough to predict. With their forwards, they were definitely drafting towards that hardest working team in the league idea that was big back then though. This is the one thing I do like about how we've had mostly the same front office in place for so long now. You can really look at the continuity of the drafts and what type of players they're looking for at certain times. And the sixth round! They draft the best player available, trying to understand what the player's game may look like in three or four or five years. Sometimes they hit, sometimes they miss. Isn't Miller a 6th round pick? You staff your team based on what the players look like in training camp, not what round they were chosen in. Exactly. Dan Paille and Thomas Vanek are not 1st round picks anymore. Miller isn't a 5th rounder. Rivet isn't a big trade acquisition. They're all NHL players who fit a certain role on their team.
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